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Notorious QIG posted:the fact that kids arent learning why A=1/2 b*h is the fault of our overall educational problems, the same reason that kids learn to hate reading and loathe team sports. there are plenty of good teachers who do teach where stuff comes from, theyre just drowned out by the general shittiness of our educational system. why does 1+1=2? please finish before page 379
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:30 |
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# ? Jun 12, 2024 14:13 |
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Notorious QIG posted:ok, i get that, but there are parts of math that have direct practical value and the goal of school should be first and foremost to prepare students for the real world. if i was a math teacher i think id pick teaching something like stat or finance over something like non-euclidean geometry since way more students will actually find that helpful and applicable once theyre no longer in school I disagree with your premise, that practical skills are what is needed. What is most important to learn, in my view, is how to learn and a desire to think creatively. Also, consider that a lot of the discoveries that come along and propel our society forward in fundamental ways started out as someone daydreaming. It was decades after Maxwell came along that we had working long distance electrical distribution, but without his work it wouldn't have happened. So I don't know; maybe we could track things like the Germans do. People who are afforded to a good math education and go "you know what, this just isn't my thing" can go take stats and finance. But daydreaming about spheres is important too, and students who want to learn that should have the option. Because right now a lot of potentially brilliant mathematicians never have that opportunity.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:30 |
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Deacon of Delicious posted:aw, it's just a parallelogram what turned into a box made of six parallelograms. like a parallelogram cube he could've saved a lot of time if he had said cube and asked you to figure out things for a cube or sphere rather than something i had to search the internet to find what it was
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:34 |
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Broken Machine posted:I disagree with your premise, that practical skills are what is needed. What is most important to learn, in my view, is how to learn and a desire to think creatively. i agree that the daydream aspects of math are also important but lol if u think that matters more for a functioning society than, say, teaching kids how to properly budget their finances
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:35 |
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the monty hall problem has been the biggest mind gently caress ever for me in quite a while, but after writing out a table you do indeed have a 2/3 chance over 1/3 chance of getting the prize if you switch your answer. wtf? my brain just doesn't want to accept it
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:36 |
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LP0 ON FIRE posted:the monty hall problem has been the biggest mind gently caress ever for me in quite a while, but after writing out a table you do indeed have a 2/3 chance over 1/3 chance of getting the prize if you switch your answer. wtf? my brain just doesn't want to accept it youre not changing your answer to "the door that i did not pick initially and that was not opened", youre changing your answer to "i was wrong initially"
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:37 |
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Share Bear posted:he could've saved a lot of time if he had said cube and asked you to figure out things for a cube or sphere rather than something i had to search the internet to find what it was well a cube is easy to deal with, a parallelepiped is something different so it makes for a more interesting example of how to approaching a thing you aren't sure about. the book is called how to solve it, not h*w*l
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:39 |
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LP0 ON FIRE posted:the monty hall problem has been the biggest mind gently caress ever for me in quite a while, but after writing out a table you do indeed have a 2/3 chance over 1/3 chance of getting the prize if you switch your answer. wtf? my brain just doesn't want to accept it expand the question to 1 million doors for a better way of finding the proof you initially choose 1 door from a million, monty closes 999998 of them, and asks you to chose again of course you switch, as your odds are now much better
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:40 |
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LP0 ON FIRE posted:the monty hall problem has been the biggest mind gently caress ever for me in quite a while, but after writing out a table you do indeed have a 2/3 chance over 1/3 chance of getting the prize if you switch your answer. wtf? my brain just doesn't want to accept it think of it as a choice between picking one door or two doors There's three options: Car, Goat A, Goat B if you pick one door, the probability you have a goat is 2/3 (Goat A or Goat B) if you pick two doors, the probability that both are goats is (2/3)(1/2) = 1/3 computer parts fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 29, 2014 |
# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:41 |
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Deacon of Delicious posted:well a cube is easy to deal with, a parallelepiped is something different so it makes for a more interesting example of how to approaching a thing you aren't sure about. the book is called how to solve it, not h*w*l thanks... nerd it is written for a teaching perspective, like you're supposed to know what these things are already if i remember correctly i'm really bad at higher level math and am trying every day to get better, but i run into these incredibly frustrating levels of abstraction or assumption on the reader constantly
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:42 |
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Share Bear posted:run into these incredibly frustrating levels of abstraction or assumption on the reader constantly as someone who went to school for math, loving epic this!!^^^ throw me a citation or something here gently caress
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:53 |
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Notorious QIG posted:i agree that the daydream aspects of math are also important but lol if u think that matters more for a functioning society than, say, teaching kids how to properly budget their finances Arithmetic involves numbers and is mathematics as much as being able to write the alphabet is to knowing how to read. A necessary but not sufficient condition if you will. Knowing how to balance a budget is a good life skill but I'd hesitate to call it mathematics just because it involves numbers. it's only more important to society if you want to go see the stars. I would like for us to see the stars some day. Notorious QIG posted:primary and secondary education should primarily be there to acclimate students to the realities of the world around them, and that includes practical math. art and music and whatnot should be taught so they have a cultural understanding of society, math should be taught primarily so that they can understand the math theyll have to deal with on a day-to-day basis I'm of the opinion that math could be as much a cultural staple as music or art, as in a sense it is the most abstract of arts. I suppose that's one of the disconnects here - you see math primarily as a tool for solving problems whereas I see it as being able to do that, but also much more than just that. It's not just a science or an art, but both.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:54 |
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Broken Machine posted:Arithmetic involves numbers and is mathematics as much as being able to write the alphabet is to knowing how to read. A necessary but not sufficient condition if you will. Knowing how to balance a budget is a good life skill but I'd hesitate to call it mathematics just because it involves numbers. i also see math as a science and as an art hth neither of us are in any power any way so its not like our opinions matter
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:56 |
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Share Bear posted:thanks... nerd well, there's never been a better time to try and get better at this stuff. it's maybe not super fun to have to stop and look a thing up on the internet, but we can and that's great. it's tough when you don't know what you don't know, and sometimes you have to go back and check out the fundamentals. what kinda math are you looking at?
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 16:56 |
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Share Bear posted:expand the question to 1 million doors for a better way of finding the proof yeah i've seen this analogy a lot, and i see how that works, but if have 3 doors and remove one, you're left with two doors which seems like a 50/50 chance computer parts posted:think of it as a choice between picking one door or two doors i got it now just by looking at Car, Goat A, Goat B. kind of clicks in and out for me, but it's right there in front of you. if you're on Car, switching will make you lose only 1/3 of the time. if you're on Goat A or B, switching makes you win 2/3 of the time. still, wtf
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:08 |
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a fun old discussion on the subject: http://www.straightdope.com/columns...-or-switch-to-3
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:11 |
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LP0 ON FIRE posted:yeah i've seen this analogy a lot, and i see how that works, but if have 3 doors and remove one, you're left with two doors which seems like a 50/50 chance You could think of it as if you had it separated into two partitions. [A B] [C] if you were allowed to pick from one of those two groups, then you'd pick [A B] as you have a 2/3 chance of it being in that group assuming equal odds to each of A, B, and C. Well, it's still that 2 /3 group, it just looks like this: [A
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:14 |
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monty hall also always reminds me of my other favorite non-intuitive probability question: you meet a couple who tells you that they have two children, at least one of whom is a boy. assuming boys and girls are equally likely, what is the probability that the other child is also a boy? 1/3
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:17 |
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Deacon of Delicious posted:well, there's never been a better time to try and get better at this stuff. it's maybe not super fun to have to stop and look a thing up on the internet, but we can and that's great. it's tough when you don't know what you don't know, and sometimes you have to go back and check out the fundamentals. what kinda math are you looking at? linear algebra and formulating basic proofs
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:19 |
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i'm going to run a couple simulations of monty hall myself in different languages, and see how distorted the outcomes are based on how good their random generators areNotorious QIG posted:monty hall also always reminds me of my other favorite non-intuitive probability question:
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:20 |
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Notorious QIG posted:monty hall also always reminds me of my other favorite non-intuitive probability question: 1/3 boy 1/3 girl 1/3 doesn't subscribe to your gender binary
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:21 |
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solution: with no information, there are four options 1) girl/girl 2) girl/boy 3) boy/girl 4) boy/boy since at least one child is a boy, option 1 is eliminated. there are now three remaining options, of which only one has both children being boys. the intuitive answer, 1/2, is true only if the couple specifies which child is a boy
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:21 |
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Deacon of Delicious posted:1/3 boy i thought about making this joke but
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:21 |
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Notorious QIG posted:solution: oh neat
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:22 |
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Notorious QIG posted:monty hall also always reminds me of my other favorite non-intuitive probability question: i did the math on this one to check it, and this one feels like a problem with how the question is phrased to extract the independent-birth answer then being all about not reading the problem properly
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:24 |
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Share Bear posted:i did the math on this one to check it, and this one feels like a problem with how the question is phrased to extract the independent-birth answer then being all about not reading the problem properly you could argue that but its certainly nowhere near "airplane on a treadmill" territory THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION TO DISCUSS AIRPLANE ON A TREADMILL BTW
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:25 |
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Notorious QIG posted:solution: this is a good and understandable explanation
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:25 |
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if 0.99999.... = an airplane on a treadmill transporting a helicopter on a turntable, and monty picks a door that has a blue-eyed person, who leaves the island that night if both prisoner A and prisoner B remain silent?
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:30 |
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Deacon of Delicious posted:if 0.99999.... = an airplane on a treadmill transporting a helicopter on a turntable, and monty picks a door that has a blue-eyed person, who leaves the island that night if both prisoner A and prisoner B remain silent? imhotep is invisible
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:31 |
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Notorious QIG posted:imhotep is invisible
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:34 |
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Notorious QIG posted:imhotep is invisible
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:35 |
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imagine four airplanes on the edge of a treadmill
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 17:53 |
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Notorious QIG posted:primary and secondary education should primarily be there to acclimate students to the realities of the world around them, and that includes practical math. art and music and whatnot should be taught so they have a cultural understanding of society ok so dance is important for ~reasons~ but how geometry works on a sphere is just plain frivolous. let me just write this down.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 18:35 |
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rotor posted:ok so dance is important for ~reasons~ but how geometry works on a sphere is just plain frivolous. let me just write this down. more rear end-shaking in dance than in geometry
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 18:42 |
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rotor posted:ok so dance is important for ~reasons~ but how geometry works on a sphere is just plain frivolous. let me just write this down. i thought qig was agreeing with you
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 18:47 |
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for the last loving time i do not think that the more naval-gazy maths are unimportant, i think that theyre irrelevant to the vast majority of the population. ffs im the kind of person who reads math stuff for fun when im bored, i understand the beauty and practical implications and etc etc im also not an educator so wgaf about my opinions about primary/secondary math education, ill stop posting about 'em if you stop talking about 'em
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 18:50 |
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Notorious QIG posted:for the last loving time i do not think that the more naval-gazy maths are unimportant, i think that theyre irrelevant to the vast majority of the population. ffs im the kind of person who reads math stuff for fun when im bored, i understand the beauty and practical implications and etc etc i didn't know i was a math person until i took geometry. i hated the horrible reasonless memorization and it was boring. how the heck do you know it's irrelevant until you let people try it?
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 18:56 |
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Brain Candy posted:i didn't know i was a math person until i took geometry. i hated the horrible reasonless memorization and it was boring. how the heck do you know it's irrelevant until you let people try it? i dont think rote memorization is the best way to teach math, ffs ive said that multiple times now
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 18:57 |
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Brain Candy posted:i hated the horrible reasonless memorization and it was boring i have really benefited from teachers that go through proofs and derivations to show how everything works, and then it winds up all being connected and making sense *~WOW~* also i am bad keeping everything memorized so knowing where a formula comes from helps me tease it out when i can't straight up remember it
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 19:00 |
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# ? Jun 12, 2024 14:13 |
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horrible rote memorization is exactly the price you pay so you can do addition and balance a checkbook. if you stop at whats 'practical', you don't need to teach anything beyond basic algebra
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 19:01 |