|
Who says Fu has fallen off? She's great. That's like the people who say Silver Wolf has fallen off. Her Quantum break isn't nearly as valuable, but her weakness implant definitely is. Switching her out for any other debuffer in team IPC loses me an entire cycle. Now I'm wondering if maybe Pela would be better for Boothill over Bronya. Hatblazer and Gallagher are required, though Gallagher can be dropped if I run into sustain issues.
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:13 |
|
|
Bad Video Games posted:Now I'm wondering if maybe Pela would be better for Boothill over Bronya. Personally I think she would, especially if you're also doing Hatblazer. Defense shred/ignore is one of the only ways to meaningfully improve break damage, which is both Hatblazer and Boothill's bread and butter. E5+ Pela with S5 Resolution brings a ridiculous 56% defense shred, which would be a jump from a defense modifier of .465 to .664 (damage increase of 42.7%) assuming no other sources of defense shred/ignore. If you lump that new set on that jumps to .770 (damage increase of 16% over just Pela, or 65.6% total). Get an E1 Boothill in that math and suddenly you're at .897 defense modifier (another 17% increase, 93% total over base). Edit: The real question is if defense shred/ignore can take someone into negative values - MrPokke's chart seems to suggest it can - because if so that would make E1 Ruan Mei turn that comp into crazy town. Another 20% defense ignore? Suddenly you're in negative defense territory with a final defense modifier of 1.13 (26% increase over previous step, 245% total increase). Kyrosiris fucked around with this message at 16:23 on May 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:17
|
|
|
yeah dont bother farming for boothill relics until the 2.3 break set comes out
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:19
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Personally I think she would, especially if you're also doing Hatblazer. Defense shred/ignore is one of the only ways to meaningfully improve break damage, which is both Hatblazer and Boothill's bread and butter. E5+ Pela with S5 Resolution brings a ridiculous 56% defense shred, which would be a jump from a defense modifier of .465 to .664 (damage increase of 42.7%) assuming no other sources of defense shred/ignore. If you lump that new set on that jumps to .770 (damage increase of 16% over just Pela, or 65.6% total). Get an E1 Boothill in that math and suddenly you're at .897 defense modifier (another 17% increase, 93% total over base). I think there's arguments for both, simply because Bronya doubles Boothill's output so he breaks faster and hits Super Break twice as often. Resolution is glued to Silver Wolf, but I think I'll try both Pela and Bronya to see who I like better. Endorph posted:yeah dont bother farming for boothill relics until the 2.3 break set comes out Thankfully, I have a complete Thief set with a Crit chest for when he releases. I'm really banking on Bootycheeks solving my second MoC 12 team, and I can meme around on the other stages.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:31
|
|
|
Bad Video Games posted:I think there's arguments for both, simply because Bronya doubles Boothill's output so he breaks faster and hits Super Break twice as often. Resolution is glued to Silver Wolf, but I think I'll try both Pela and Bronya to see who I like better. My thinking here is that Pela improves everyone. We've all seen the very silly videos of how nutty Super Break damage can get, and defense shred works that improvement into everybody's super break output, not just Boothill's. An aggressively BE-built Gallagher is going to lust for having 56% defense shred when he's got Backup Dancer, f.ex.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:33
|
|
|
librarerun posted:Yeah, this and the PF bird going "no, if you had told the truth about Belobog, it would have destroyed itself through civil war" seems to be the writers saying the choices made had to be made that way or way worse poo poo would have happened. It's a little irksome, honestly. Bad bronya is a tyrant and must be deposed. Good bronya just fucks with herta which is noble and just actually come to think of it this chapter's ending is a bit of a refutation of belobog's resolution, one idiot shouldering everything with a lie against a harsher truth Valleyant fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:39
|
|
|
Like I said, I'll try both. The upside is I'm using characters I never use anymore. I often run into sustain issues with Gallagher in MoC 12. Luocha and Aventurine are just much more comfortable, but I could always throw Gallagher's break kit on Luocha for similar damage on his ult.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:44
|
|
|
I upgraded Xueyi's relics. Now she's too fast and gets her first turn before Ruan Mei can get her buff set up. You were supposed to free me from speed tuning, Ruan Mei...
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
well i’m finally friends with and borrowing an e0s1 robin. guess i don’t read into kits enough to know why she only buffs topaz’s damage and nerfs ratio and aventurine’s numbers (compared to using e2s1 sparkle or ruan mei). it’s flipped around when i use my sparkle too — she makes topaz useless, to the point where i’m usually just running raturine with her and ruan mei so ratio can consistently fua and crit.padijun posted:Just don't play the events you don't want to. I will never finish aetherium wars and that one. the museum one too, thinking about it. i have red notification brainworms too, but i just open the event enough to make it go away and then go about what i was actually trying to do. i’d rather that minor inconvenience during the event runtime than actually slogging through it
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 16:53
|
|
|
MNSNTZR posted:well i’m finally friends with and borrowing an e0s1 robin. guess i don’t read into kits enough to know why she only buffs topaz’s damage and nerfs ratio and aventurine’s numbers (compared to using e2s1 sparkle or ruan mei). Because an E2S1 Sparkle gives nearly as much +DMG as Robin does, plus 18% defense ignore on top, plus whatever crit damage she's passing along. Does your Ratio have his signature? If so that's going to skew things even more in favor of the defense shred providers, because as I mentioned above - each point of defense shred/ignore you have makes the next point even better. Edit: Though, make sure you're also considering how much damage Robin herself is contributing. It's like my thought of Pela over Bronya for a Boothill/Hatblazer comp - unless you're just chasing Damage Per Screenshot then sometimes it's better to buff everyone somewhat than one person a whole lot. Kyrosiris fucked around with this message at 17:12 on May 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 17:09
|
|
|
You're also gaining an entire cycle or two with Robin, which is such an infinitely exponentially amount of damage over buff comparisons.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 17:21
|
|
|
Doing some brief testing in MoC 12 against Gepard with team IPC. Ratio, Topaz, Silver Wolf, and Aventurine. Pela/Gui in place of SW loses me a cycle, down to 5. SW and Pela in place of Topaz breaks even at 4. Sparkle in for SW actually loses me cycles. I don't know how many because it took me 3 cycles to kill the elites before Gepard. And Bronya gains me an entire cycle, almost 2! That means I can try both SW and Pela with Boothill! It also means I will probably save a cycle against Kafka with the Capitalists, so I can probably get full stars without having to wait for the cowboy to save me.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
Man, does it feel bad when you don't get any purple drops from the trace mats. Spent 320 stamina, one purple drop 
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:12
|
|
|
Purple drops are just a pleasant surprise. Never expect them.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:20
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Because an E2S1 Sparkle gives nearly as much +DMG as Robin does, plus 18% defense ignore on top, plus whatever crit damage she's passing along. my current/most run team is e0s1 ratio, e6s2 aventurine, e0s0 ruan mei and e2s1 sparkle. carried me through their halves of moc and pf. topaz would be e0s0 if slotted in, does great in g&g with sparkle ratio never, ever crits without this setup despite being at 60/180 cr/cd before anyone else gets involved. he still doesn’t crit with summation stacks somehow. i know he’s cursed with needing a crit rate body for most situations but i can’t get a good one running robin is genuinely a huge nerf with my ratio. farming for boothill, so i do team ipc+robin a few minutes ago. summation stacks up a little, no debuffs going on, robin’s skill is up but not her ult— no poo poo, his fua hit for 6500 and he ulted for 8k. i’ve never seen poo poo like this on a built character in my life lol. i got like 77k out of his fua with her ult up, whereas i get double that with sparkle in the same calyx (or 2.5x with her and ruan mei). it affects aventurine a little less, but he still does less damage. topaz is having a great time though. always happens with specifically robin, i have no idea why she does this. why JUST buff topaz and completely gently caress over ratio’s damage maybe it’s just this person’s robin, but it sucked finding one with their signature to begin with so i’m stuck with it for now. but it’s the weirdest drat situation imo
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:27
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Purple drops are just a pleasant surprise. Never expect them. I think people complain because it feels like poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:30
|
|
|
It doesn't feel like poo poo if you aren't expecting them! That was my point!
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:32
|
|
|
MNSNTZR posted:ratio never, ever crits without this setup despite being at 60/180 cr/cd before anyone else gets involved. he still doesn’t crit with summation stacks somehow. i know he’s cursed with needing a crit rate body for most situations but i can’t get a good one It sounds like you already know what the problem is then? I mean, Robin is giving 20% CD so yeah, if your people are critting at all then its still gonna feel kinda bad even with her 50% damage buff on
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:34
|
|
|
MNSNTZR posted:maybe it’s just this person’s robin, but it sucked finding one with their signature to begin with so i’m stuck with it for now. but it’s the weirdest drat situation imo Nah, especially with his signature, I could easily see an E2S1 Sparkle making Ratio much stronger than an E0S1 Robin. Ratio's signature is already really good and Sparkle's S2 just makes it that much better because of the exponential nature of defense shred, etc. E: like, hell, the exponential nature of defense shred/ignore is why I have my Ratio on Genius instead of Wastewanderer. I have roughly comparable sets and I always, always see better performance with him on Genius.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:35
|
|
|
If you wanted to do a fair comparison then you would need to start from an e2 Robin to compare to your e2 Sparkle. An e2 takes triple the tickets of an e0, I would be alarmed if they weren't better.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:43
|
|
|
Ratio should generally be on the debuff set (Pioneer Diver of Dead Waters) since he requires 3 debuffs to even function and he inflicts his own debuff with his skill. The set is basically made for him.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:44
|
|
|
Maybe I should throw my Genius set on Ratio just to test. I've had him on the Bandit set, and right now, he's on the Diver's set. But with his current gear, he has 100/200 crit after his second turn. I'm curious to see his numbers on the Genius set.Clarste posted:It doesn't feel like poo poo if you aren't expecting them! That was my point! I agree with this. I never even look at my trace mats. I just spend my energy and then use the Exchange to get what I need.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:45
|
|
|
Genovera posted:If you wanted to do a fair comparison then you would need to start from an e2 Robin to compare to your e2 Sparkle. An e2 takes triple the tickets of an e0, I would be alarmed if they weren't better. Also, are we ignoring the e6 Aventurine? Holy gently caress. My IPC crew is all e0s0, except for SW/Bronya, and that's expensive as hell.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:46
|
|
|
Zurai posted:Ratio should generally be on the debuff set (Pioneer Diver of Dead Waters) since he requires 3 debuffs to even function and he inflicts his own debuff with his skill. The set is basically made for him. Yeah, this was all before Pioneer came out. You're right in that it would probably be Genius vs Pioneer for comparison's sake, and on non-Qua weak targets Pioneer probably does win. Bad Video Games posted:Maybe I should throw my Genius set on Ratio just to test. It's worth noting that I was always running him in a Silver Wolf/Tingyun/Fu Xuan composition, so he had a *lot* of supplemental defense shred to accompany Genius and his signature (not to mention the possibility of SW turning the extra 10% on). It was more of a point of "don't discount Genius because defense shred/ignore is a complex stat". Kyrosiris fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:47
|
|
|
Bad Video Games posted:Also, are we ignoring the e6 Aventurine? Holy gently caress. Oh they've mentioned their e6 Aventurine before so I wasn't surprised. He's on both versions of the team though so that only really matters in that he'll count more like another DPS than he usually would. I don't have all the limited harmonies but my impression is that they're in the same ballpark power-wise, so eidolons could definitely determine which one performs better.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 18:53
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, this was all before Pioneer came out. You're right in that it would probably be Genius vs Pioneer for comparison's sake, and on non-Qua weak targets Pioneer probably does win. Yeah, to be fair, the difference between 100% always active Pioneer and the "worst" set of the top 10 for Ratio is like 101% vs 98% damage, it's all really close and whichever set has the best substats is probably actually better for him in real life terms. And it's always good to point out that defense shred gets better the more you have since (almost) every other damage amplifier in the game has diminishing returns.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:06
|
|
|
Bad Video Games posted:I agree with this. I never even look at my trace mats. I just spend my energy and then use the Exchange to get what I need. Wait, you mean you use Material Synthesis right, not Material Exchange? As in you trade three blue arrows for a purple arrow, not a purple sword and purple key for a purple arrow (or whatever).
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:08
|
|
|
As representatives of capitalism, Team IPC is expensive to run in it's best form. You need either e1s1 Topaz, s1 Aventurine, or so combo of the two to get all the debuffs Ratio needs to really pop off. If you do not have the debuffs for Ratio, then other variants will be better. That is just how it is. Additionally on your Ratio though, I'd say that cv is really low in general. As well he's one of the rare characters where I'd say you want at minimum 80% crit rate, but probably higher. Yes this wastes his buff, but he only has one hit per attack. You need that attack to crit or his damage sucks rear end. You want him as close to 100% crit as possible, even if that means you're only rocking like 120 crit damage, you will just do more damage and he will feel better when every single attack crits.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:08
|
|
|
Clarste posted:It doesn't feel like poo poo if you aren't expecting them! That was my point! They drop often enough that people expect them whether it's logical or not. I don't expect my "ignore the red dots" advice to work for everyone either
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:10
|
|
|
If people paid attention to clinical logical advice that goes against human nature this game would have zero dollars instead of infinity
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:12
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, this was all before Pioneer came out. You're right in that it would probably be Genius vs Pioneer for comparison's sake, and on non-Qua weak targets Pioneer probably does win. My Ratio team is pretty much the same. Def shred might be better the more you have, but my brief testing shows me that doubling Ratio's output with Bronya is better than the 100%+ from SW & Pela & Resolution S5. It only saves me 2-3 total actions, but that adds up to an extra cycle. But my IPC crew is all e0s0 so I don't need the additional debuffs for his output. Maybe if I drop Topaz and run him with SW and Bronya? I'll have to test. Genovera posted:Wait, you mean you use Material Synthesis right, not Material Exchange? As in you trade three blue arrows for a purple arrow, not a purple sword and purple key for a purple arrow (or whatever). Yeah, that's what I meant. I rarely exchange poo poo unless I'm desperate.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:48
|
|
|
Genovera posted:Oh they've mentioned their e6 Aventurine before so I wasn't surprised. He's on both versions of the team though so that only really matters in that he'll count more like another DPS than he usually would. yeah that part. depending on the buffs that are happening and whether i’m in anything other than the preservation path in g&g, he’s the main dps for my ipc team i ran ratio and aventurine only in the same calyx just a second ago out of curiosity and ratio crit consistently because his summation stacks built a little more. it was like for 35k max, but at least it happened way more often. aventurine TANKED, he was doing around the same numbers across his whole kit. raturine and e0s0 ruan mei had ratio perform the same, but it buffed aventurine’s ult and normals. not the fua for some reason. ran them with robin only and ratio also crit more consistently at around 65k. same result with aventurine. maybe it’s not robin who’s cursed, it’s topaz being a damage leech with her in team ipc. i’ll continue to insist that this is the damnedest thing, but it was an interesting way to both farm and determine that i have zero need for robin like i thought
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:49
|
|
|
oof the first choice here makes it really seem like they don't take more than one pass through the localization script (from the scorchsand audition side quest after the 2.2 main mission). I'm so fascinated by whatever conditions they produce this in, since I've seen a couple instances of small but interesting things changing between languages (like the guy boothill is looking for being mentioned as a former nameless in one minor video but only in Chinese).
Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 15, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:57
|
|
|
This MoC was wild. My Acheron team takes 5 cycles for the first half. I have s3 GNSW and maintaining pretty much 90-100% def shred on both targets, Fu is on s1 Trend, so there isn't much scope for increasing Acheron's stacks, I'm making sure Pela is skilling if there is no ensnare target. I could definitely get it down to 4 cycles if I got better relics on Acheron. Meanwhile the second half was an absolute pain with IL, Sparkle, Ruan Mei, and Luocha, taking seven cycles in a few attempts. I decided against trying to get those teams down to a 4/6 cycle split and set about tracing up Trailblazer, since I've been saving for Firefly and try throwing Sushang at the problem and got it down with relics I had in inventory, first try in 5 cycles. Maybe Prydwen are going to need to reassess their tier list again, where the TB+RM synergy makes their pairing T0. Also I got 4 purples in a single 60 trailblaze energy run getting traces for Trailblazer.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
My Aventurine is also built for damage. He has over 200% crit damage in the Diver set. He ends up doing about 25k follow-ups and 30k ults. With Bronya, it's close to another 10k on those numbers. I'm also skipping Robin because I just don't think I need her. I need a stronger general purpose second team for MoC, and I really like the cowboy, so it's a no-brainer for me.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 19:58
|
|
|
shrach posted:Fu is on s1 Trend, so there isn't much scope for increasing Acheron's stacks Do you have Gepard? You will probably see more stack income with him than Fu Xuan, since he has increased threat and will draw significantly more hits (and thus Trends procs) than Fu.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 20:06
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Do you have Gepard? You will probably see more stack income with him than Fu Xuan, since he has increased threat and will draw significantly more hits (and thus Trends procs) than Fu. With hindsight I might have picked him over e2 Bronya at 300 standard pulls but alas, he still escapes me.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 20:13
|
|
|
Bad Video Games posted:My Aventurine is also built for damage. He has over 200% crit damage in the Diver set. He ends up doing about 25k follow-ups and 30k ults. With Bronya, it's close to another 10k on those numbers. i fool around and switch his relics and planars occasionally (to the great chagrin of borrowers who want keel, i’m assuming). it still feels really funny running diver and sigonia so he can do like 200k+ normals at almost 400% cdmg with def increase and res decrease all at the same time in g&g
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 20:36
|
|
|
This Pure Fiction ended up a lot more obnoxious than I anticipated. Not having Himeko or Topaz sure does suck
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:13 |
|
|
praying for any phone gaming completionists in this thread after learning there's a "complete all hanu wars stages flawlessly" achievement
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2024 00:57
|
|