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Electric Phantasm posted:The Spot is probably the best villian Marvel Movies has had in years. Kind of amazing that the only Marvel movie with a decent villain is a non-Marvel Studios/Disney one mystes fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 15:50
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mystes posted:I think that's a pretty low bar. I can't even think of a single MCU movie that has an interesting villain except maybe Jeff Goldblum in Thor: Ragnarok but he's arguably not even the main villain in the movie because they had to stick a dumb generic one in at the end Counterpoint: Loki, Zemo, Killmonger, Namor, Hela, The Vulture, Mysterio, The Mandarin, The Mandarin, The Grand Evolutionary, and motherfucking Thanos.
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Aug 13, 2023 16:08
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The Spot bank robbery into Miles and his dad fighting the guy together is the best part of the movie
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Aug 13, 2023 16:09
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La Louve Rouge posted:The Spot bank robbery into Miles and his dad fighting the guy together is the best part of the movie Just two dudes discussing life, awkwardly.
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Aug 13, 2023 18:09
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Daduzi posted:Counterpoint: Loki, Zemo, Killmonger, Namor, Hela, The Vulture, Mysterio, The Mandarin, The Mandarin, The Grand Evolutionary, and motherfucking Thanos. Thanos sucked and they were cowards not making him into the pathetic simp that he really is.
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Aug 13, 2023 18:26
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Thanos was cool and I'm glad they didn't do the stupid death thing
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Aug 13, 2023 18:45
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Macaluso posted:Thanos was cool and I'm glad they didn't do the stupid death thing His balance in all things was the stupidest poo poo.
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Aug 13, 2023 19:01
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Macaluso posted:Gwen did nothing wrong Gwen was going to let Singh(sp?), her dad and Miles' dad die without trying to help. Honestly I don't know if I would forgive her. At this point not enough is known about how canon events actually influence dimensions, and I can see Spider-people can use them to help alleviate their grief post loss, but to use their existence to justify not taking action to save someone's life is messed up, especially as Miles has such a strong connection with his family. Don't get me wrong - I really like that Gwen's character was expanded upon in the movie, but from Miles' perspective (and as she acknowledges from her narration) she really hosed up big time here.
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Aug 13, 2023 19:19
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Macaluso posted:Thanos was cool and I'm glad they didn't do the stupid death thing Him wanting to court death is super awesome actually and the mcu even could have made death be cate blanchett which also would have ruled
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Aug 13, 2023 19:39
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MCU villains I like: high evolutionary, ego, killian, the vulture, mysterio, stane. That’s kinda it honestly lol. Mostly like them due to the actors just being good
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Aug 13, 2023 19:43
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Daduzi posted:Counterpoint: Loki, Zemo, Killmonger, Namor, Hela, The Vulture, Mysterio, The Mandarin, The Mandarin, The Grand Evolutionary, and motherfucking Thanos. Counterpoint: none of those
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Aug 13, 2023 21:03
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I just noticed that in the original flashback scene with Spot when he talks about pulling the spider from 42, the spider is crawling on a desk that has a guy who looks a good bit like 42 Miles sitting at it. Same hair style anyway. So Miles is the only Miles Spider-Man, from what we know, but it’s possible that there was always meant to be one. Or maybe I’m reading too much into a split second scene.
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Aug 13, 2023 23:12
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derra posted:Gwen was going to let Singh(sp?), her dad and Miles' dad die without trying to help. Honestly I don't know if I would forgive her. I think being a 16(?) year old runaway desperately clinging to her found family buys her a little slack. Not that she didn't hugely gently caress everything up, mind, but she's a lot less culpable than all the literal adults in the room who also go along with Miguel's nonsense.
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Aug 14, 2023 03:59
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:I just noticed that in the original flashback scene with Spot when he talks about pulling the spider from 42, the spider is crawling on a desk that has a guy who looks a good bit like 42 Miles sitting at it. Same hair style anyway. The whole implication is that's literally 42-Miles the spider was going to bite before the particle collider sucked it into protagonist Miles' dimension, that's exactly the point. Miles ended up sent back to the wrong dimension because the go-home machine based it on the spider venom's origin, not Miles himself. Since that Miles could then not become Spider-man, he instead ended up becoming the Prowler.
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Aug 14, 2023 04:39
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The whole implication is that's literally 42-Miles the spider was going to bite before the particle collider sucked it into protagonist Miles' dimension, that's exactly the point. Miles ended up sent back to the wrong dimension because the go-home machine based it on the spider venom's origin, not Miles himself. Since that Miles could then not become Spider-man, he instead ended up becoming the Prowler. Maybe I missed a bigger giveaway but I got that the spider had come from that dimension but didn’t realize it was supposed to bite Miles there. For all I knew the first few watches it was supposed to bite a 42 Peter or somebody. It wasn’t till I noticed that brief flashback that it clicked that there was supposed to be a Spider Miles, just not THAT Miles.
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Aug 14, 2023 04:48
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Skippy McPants posted:I think being a 16(?) year old runaway desperately clinging to her found family buys her a little slack. Not that she didn't hugely gently caress everything up, mind, but she's a lot less culpable than all the literal adults in the room who also go along with Miguel's nonsense. on top of all that the adults in charge are holding over her the threat of yanking away the support and safety they gave her and sending her back into the situation they got her out of if she messes up too much, does that sound like something good people do?
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Aug 14, 2023 09:45
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Love that Miles doesn't buy the bullshit for one instant. The moment he understands the deal, all his doe-eyed joiner energy vanishes, and he is all the way out. Which isn't a knock against Gwen since she was in a much more vulnerable place when she joined up. It's just nice when the comic book hero looks at an obvious moral failure and says, essentially, "hell no."
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Aug 14, 2023 10:10
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Skippy McPants posted:I think being a 16(?) year old runaway desperately clinging to her found family buys her a little slack. Not that she didn't hugely gently caress everything up, mind, but she's a lot less culpable than all the literal adults in the room who also go along with Miguel's nonsense. Agreed, but it certainly was more personal to Miles. Even Peter B wasn't filling up his sketchbook. Anyway my comment wasn't who screwed up the most, but a rebuttal against "Gwen did nothing wrong!" and I'm really excited to see where this goes in movie 3.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:58
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I assume the folks saying she did nothing wrong are just joshin' since she does, like, almost everything wrong. Miguel is probably the only person in the movie who fucks up worse than her, but again, she's a kid, so that buys back some of it. Though not to Miles, obviously. If I had to pick a person in the film to be pissed at, it's probably Peter B. Miguel and Gwen are both trauma blinded to an extent, but Peter doesn't have that excuse. Even if he was there to see Miguel's surrogate home wiped out, he's still a moron for going along with the predestination panopticon plan. I suppose it is on brand for Peter Parker to fall for that kind of poo poo. Doesn't he constantly get roped into authoritarian schemes by Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic in the comics?
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Aug 15, 2023 06:04
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I never thought of any of the Spider people who shallow Miguel's line as being foolish or duped. I read it as them being wrapped up in their own trauma and obsessed with the idea that sacrifice is necessary. They believe canon events must happen, because that legitimises their canon events, and if they tried to fight against them they'd be selfishly rejecting their call (kind of a big no-no for spidies). This line would probably have worked on Miles, too, if Miguel hadn't had such an obvious hate boner for him. Which means that the *real* protagonist of the movie is Hobie Brown because he's the only one who sees how bullshit the whole thing is purely on his own accord.
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Aug 15, 2023 07:04
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Daduzi posted:the *real* protagonist of the movie is Hobie Brown there was never any question
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Aug 15, 2023 07:07
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fosborb posted:have you seen what we do to horseshoe crabs? Yes 
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Aug 15, 2023 18:31
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Spider-Men and Women are, by their nature, people so utterly wrapped up in their own trauma and mistakes that they sacrifice any chance at a normal life to atone for them and believe they have a great responsibility. Most of them are also some degree of giant nerd. There's basically no group better to get groupthought into "This horrible tragedy was impossible to avoid and also we have to adhere VERY STRICTLY to canon." You don't get to be Spiders without some degree of immense guilt, desperate desire to avoid another mistake, and being the kind of person who gets irrationally upset when Star Trek makes a continuity mistake.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:52
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Skippy McPants posted:I think being a 16(?) year old runaway desperately clinging to her found family buys her a little slack. Not that she didn't hugely gently caress everything up, mind, but she's a lot less culpable than all the literal adults in the room who also go along with Miguel's nonsense. I also got the impression was that her staying away was her doing what little she thought she could to prevent her dad's death. If a police captain that's close to Spider-Man dies then severing ties with her dad would be the best way to protect him. Punishing yourself to protect the people you love and taking all responsibility on yourself is also extremely on brand for Spider-Man.
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Aug 15, 2023 19:10
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It's also a sunk cost fallacy writ large right, if they recruit people after their canon tragedy has happened already or a traumatic event has happened at the least (like Gwens relationship seemed pretty hosed for example and her Peter had died, the captain dying afterwards would be yet another awful thing) then the recruits would be more likely to go with the "in for a penny, in for a pound" instinct and not think about it too much, any lingering doubts would be negated by them not wanting to admit that maybe things could be different/not wanting their event to be for nothing. That's what it seemed like Peter B Parker was doing to me, it just took Miles going "nope! this is hosed" out loud for him to crack. Hobie was looking for an out and not fully onboard but presumably had been doing the work still since he shows up to the event in Pavitr's world, didn't try and save Singh and he didn't take action until Miles did.
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Aug 15, 2023 19:14
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mystes posted:It kind of seems like the people in this thread who are insisting that there's an actual love triangle just don't understand that the way the audience understands things can be different from the way miles, as a teenager, understands things especially since miles isn't the only pov character. I…don’t think anyone in this thread is being insistent that there is a full on live triangle to the point where Hobie and Gwen have actually gotten romantic. Like one person described it as a “love triangle” but the point of contention seemed to be whether Miles was more jealous that Gwen was doing stuff with the council of Spider-Men while others were like “no Miles clearly has a romantic crush on Gwen and that’s the main thing driving his jealousy”
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Aug 16, 2023 01:52
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My thought is that the spiderverse web itself is part of the problem - if it existing means that canon events, whether they are a thing or not, need to happen, then letting the web collapse will free all Spiderpeople from any requirements. Also something that Miguel is missing is he's not dealing with the comic book versions of Miles Morales - he's dealing with the Spiderverse version. The fight at the accelerator, him meeting the spider society and learning of his father's impending doom, those ARE the canon events in his story now. Because they loving happened. Also I loved the gag at the start of the movie with the bread falling through The Spot and him being all "What? Is this funny to you?" Given his he's changed the nature of his power, I feel a cool upgrade name for him at this point would be The Singularity, although the thread seems to have fallen on plot hole, which is also fine.
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Aug 27, 2023 16:30
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BioEnchanted posted:My thought is that the spiderverse web itself is part of the problem - if it existing means that canon events, whether they are a thing or not, need to happen, then letting the web collapse will free all Spiderpeople from any requirements. I do have the gut feeling that the trilogy is going to end with Spider Society being dissolved and the Spiderverse being destroyed, forcing every Spider Person to deal with total agency over the consequences of their actions, for better or worse. This might be the solution to closing up the inter-dimensional tears. There will probably be a tearjerker scene where Miles and Gwen believe that they are saying goodbye for the last time, only for them to be able to be together somehow.
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Aug 27, 2023 20:04
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One thing sort of bothers me while rewatching. Why does Miguel tell Miles anything? Why not just say “hey knock it off” and ship him back? Why tell him 2 days before his dad is supposed to die? Why tell him it’s 2 days until his dad dies? Why tell him there is a captain-death thing at all? They gave him way more information than would’ve been necessary to get him to buzz off. I know the real reason is the story didn’t work otherwise but is there any in-universe justification for dropping that info bomb on him?
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Aug 28, 2023 03:23
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:One thing sort of bothers me while rewatching. If Miles doesn't know about the significance of the canon events then he will obviously try to stop it - as evidenced by his actions in the Spider-Man India universe - and if it is his father he will definitely drop everything else to intervene. From Miguel's perspective the best case is Miles' dad dies anyway, worst case is Miles get himself killed and now there are two universes without a Spider-Man, plus powered up Spot still on the lose. Too many things could go wrong to just let Miles run free. The point of revealing the information wasn't to actually give Miles any additional agency, the whole point was to rationalize the course of action that Miguel wanted to take anyway, especially given that he already saw Miles as an aberration and the reason why he had such a burden in managing the Spider-verse already.
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Aug 28, 2023 03:42
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:One thing sort of bothers me while rewatching. Because Miguel's entire thing is that he thinks he is *right.* That these things need to happen and there is no avoiding it. He isn't trying to trick Miles. He's genuinely trying to explain to Miles why this has to happen. He can't even hide the 'captain death' thing because that specifically is what Miles averted the first time. He tried keeping him out of the loop but obviously The Spot and Gwen made that impossible so he took the next step of trying to explain himself. There's a very good chance he is wrong but Miguel managed to recruit a whole loving lot of Spider-Men using the same argument.
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Aug 28, 2023 03:42
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He probably figured he could Facts and Logic him into joining like a bunch of the others. It's only once Miles gets all defiant that Miguel cages him. After all, Miguel does think he's doing the right thing by his own interpretation of events. Also, he's like consistently bad at evaluating threats considering his plan for Spot is to just say out loud that someone should go take care of him before leaving in a portal.
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Aug 28, 2023 03:46
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:One thing sort of bothers me while rewatching. Given Miguel's belief that Miles is the original anomaly, and that dialog suggests that there was already a plan in place, it's possible that Miguel didn't trust Miles to not somehow prevent his own canon event. It's possible - and I would say, even likely - that bringing him to Spider-Society the day his dad was supposed to die and, if necessary, physically keeping him there to make sure it happens, was The Plan. Then again, the question then becomes, why would they send Gwen of all people to investigate The Spot, instead of someone they knew they could trust to not get close to Miles at all? There's obviously some info we're missing given an entire forthcoming sequel, but still.
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Aug 28, 2023 04:48
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To be fair all the other Spider-Mans don’t really question the canon events because they just assume you need to go through it and it takes someone that’s not a variation of Peter Parker to say gently caress this, things can be better. All Spider-Mans are sad sacks that are defined by their trauma. Or so they think.
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Aug 28, 2023 05:07
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Invalid Validation posted:To be fair all the other Spider-Mans don’t really question the canon events because they just assume you need to go through it and it takes someone that’s not a variation of Peter Parker to say gently caress this, things can be better. All Spider-Mans are sad sacks that are defined by their trauma. Or so they think. Were any of the other Spider-things told before the events took place? Besides Gwen? It's one thing to hear after the fact "you had to go through that to become who you are." It's very different to hear "you have to let this happen." And Gwen was estranged from her dad as well. I guess I get it. I think if Miguel knew how it would work out he would've sent Miles on some "mission" to another universe for a couple days to keep him busy until it happened. He made a pretty drastic miscalculation letting it play out how it did.
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Aug 28, 2023 06:28
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Also his behaviour wasn't helping his case. You'd think a Spiderman would be self-aware enough to know that tearing through a commuter vehicle bellowing "YOU WERE A MISTAKE!" is a pretty big red flag.
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Aug 28, 2023 10:43
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I actually get the idea the finale will have Miles and Miles play off each other in just the right way to figure out the solutions to everything. Would be especially fun if we get hints of the Prowlerverse just to gently caress with everything.
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Aug 28, 2023 11:00
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I actually get the idea the finale will have Miles and Miles play off each other in just the right way to figure out the solutions to everything. Of course, the solution is two cakes.
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Aug 28, 2023 12:22
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how hilarious would it be if the first scene of the sequel is Miles glitching through the bungee cords. no clever solutions or discussions with Prowler Morales, just an accidental fluke that confuses both of them.
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Aug 28, 2023 13:35
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Invalid Validation posted:To be fair all the other Spider-Mans don’t really question the canon events because they just assume you need to go through it and it takes someone that’s not a variation of Peter Parker to say gently caress this, things can be better. All Spider-Mans are sad sacks that are defined by their trauma. Or so they think. Miles doesn't know any better because his universe had kick-rear end Chris Pine Spidey 
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