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zarya does tons of damage if you do it right. dva is just 500 hp worth of ult charge for zarya too
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Sep 19, 2016 19:22
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Ersatz posted:I'm having trouble at this point getting away from D.Va, because I'm not yet able to pump out damage with other tanks at anywhere near the same rate. I don't want to tell you that you're doing anything wrong, but as one regular D.Va player to another be aware that golding in damage as D.Va is really, really easy to do by virtue of how her weapons work but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're "carrying" per se. I've lost plenty of games where I'll gold in damage but the issue isn't really "well our DPS sucked a big fat one" when you're able to spam shotgun fire everywhere all the time, especially if the enemy has a Reinhardt and you spend a lot of time chunking through his shield. Getting silvers and even bronze as a tank isn't always the worst thing in the world, on the flip side I've had a number of successful games as Winston or Zarya where I don't even medal in elims or damage but it's fine because, y'know, you aren't a DPS. To me one of the biggest measures of success as a tank is dying as little as possible, if I have high elims but also high deaths then odds are I'm not doing my job well.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:23
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I collected a group of people on my friends list who play support, and will fight over who gets to play support of course by and large the consequence of this is that between them plus me and a few other folks who like DPS, we now have no good tanks, and the good tanks we do have only play Zarya, which is great but not when you desperately need a Reinhardt or Winston and nobody wants to do it but at least it's a different problem
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Sep 19, 2016 19:25
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even better than the elusive support player is the any-role player
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Sep 19, 2016 19:27
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i'd rather have reliable specialists than people who'll do anything badly of course this is in the context of a semi-fixed group, not solo queue, but if i had to solo queue i'd just quit the game like I did with mobas
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Sep 19, 2016 19:29
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i will do nothing very well
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Sep 19, 2016 19:30
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I actually legitimately like both tanking and support in this game better than most of the offense and defense heroes. I've been on a tear with Zenyatta here recently, orbs of discord is a great tankbuster tool, shame his heals aren't as succinctly potent as Mercy/Anna or over a wide area like Lucio, but a dedicate Zenyatta has the best capability of straight murdering dudes compared to the other healers I feel. I'm also to the point now that I'm consistently landing hooks with Roadhog well enough to wreck on dudes with him.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:36
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Played a game last night with my whole team being tracers. I saw three tracers already selected and thought 'gently caress it' and chose her too, and so did the other guy on the team. We were about as effective as expected. I'm still locked out of competitive play, but I'll probably stick to quick play anyways. This game is just plain alot of fun. I find I still just use D.Va, Tracer, and Lucio, i'm gonna get better at the other characters eventually.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:39
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D.Va's a bit of a favourite for me and probably has my highest win rate in QP, but in no way do I think getting 4 golds with her is a good thing. Elims is easy. My left mouse is taped down the entire time, so I get chip damage on everyone. If anyone dies anywhere near me, chances are I did 5 or 6 damage to them and get elim credit. Damage is a bit double edged. I can't count how many times I lay into someone, only for a healer to outheal the damage I'm doing to them. All I'm doing is giving the healer ult charge. Or I damage them enough to escape and get healed. It inflates my numbers, but because my solo kills aren't high, and I let a lot of people survive, I'm just making things harder for my team if there's a Zen or Mercy around. The actual reasons my D.Va QP win rate is so high is because I chew through so many Ults with Matrix, I'm constantly being annoying in the back line with her charge, and I use my ult whenever my HP gets low, which buys me enough time to self-heal for another 400 and start being annoying again. My damage and elims are a pretty small part of it, and both of those should be trivial to get as D.Va for the wrong reasons. When it comes to comp or actually performing properly, my Zarya game's weaker overall but has better impact.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:40
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You should definitely be placing into top three damage dealt as Zarya it's probably the second most important thing after using your ult properly
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Sep 19, 2016 19:42
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RCarr posted:Step 1: Teleport to a spot above the enemy team. Step 2.5: Don't drop if there is a Dva mech, Rein, pig with hook up, mccree with flashbang up, zenyatta with transcendence up, Zarya with both bubbles up present unless you think they have a really slow reaction time and/or are incapable of turning around. You also won't kill most of the tanks with it and they may very well nullify your ult entirely, so it's sort of the opposite of your usual tankeating situation with Reaper.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:05
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Totally agreed with Kai, and with most of Orcs's post, but I'm a bit confused by Orcs's statement that damage and elims are only a small part of playing successfully as D.Va. Ideally, D.Va should be bullying/forcing the red team off the point, providing a front line for DPS to work behind, and adjusting position as necessary to protect blue supports and to punish reds who overextend. Applying constant pressure through damage and confirming kills is a big part of all of that.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:10
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Ersatz posted:Totally agreed with Kai, and with most of Orcs's post, but I'm a bit confused by Orcs's statement that damage and elims are only a small part of playing successfully as D.Va. Ideally, D.Va should be bullying/forcing the red team off the point, providing a front line for DPS to work behind, and adjusting position as necessary to protect blue supports and to punish reds who overextend. Applying constant pressure through damage and confirming kills is a big part of all of that. Having gold medals for damage and elims doesn't necessarily mean you're doing any of those things, though - it just means you have dual shotguns with a high rate of fire that never run out of ammo. People tend to assume that they're doing well just because they have high numbers, when in reality they might have just gotten credit for other people's kills by spamming ineffectual chip damage into a crowd, or fed a healer's ult by hurting people they can't chase to finish off.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:42
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on the one hand, people like to point out that you got gold damage from shooting the reinhardt shield. on the other hand why aren't more people shooting at the reinhardt shield?
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Sep 19, 2016 20:44
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Snazzy Frocks posted:on the one hand, people like to point out that you got gold damage from shooting the reinhardt shield. on the other hand why aren't more people shooting at the reinhardt shield? I had a game where as D.Va I was the only one shooting the Rein shield and right as I got it low enough to start cracking the Mei on our team would wall him off, allowing him to recover.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:52
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Zikan posted:Laser, it has higher DPS and will tear through people faster then grenades even with AOE damage. Doesn't it do roughly twice the damage grenades do? So 3 targets should probably get grenades and anything else gets lasered. Right? Or am I missing something obvious?
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Sep 19, 2016 20:53
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Dumb question : how long does zaryas gun stay charged? Getting kills with the charged Lazer seems important to doing well with her.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:00
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Panfilo posted:Dumb question : how long does zaryas gun stay charged? Getting kills with the charged Lazer seems important to doing well with her. It loses 2 points of charge per second.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:03
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Ravenfood posted:Doesn't it do roughly twice the damage grenades do? So 3 targets should probably get grenades and anything else gets lasered. Right? Or am I missing something obvious? Yeah that answer was categorically wrong, it's dependent on how many people are trapped in Graviton Surge. Beam is 2x the DPS, so if you have 3 or more trapped then grenades are better, unless there's a priority target that you want to burn down especially fast.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:29
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Out of 70 season 2 games I've played the new map once. I've played Anubis about 50 times.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:36
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Efexeye posted:i went 6-3-1 in placements and got seeded at 1796 Turn on your monitor
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Sep 19, 2016 21:40
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Papercut posted:Yeah that answer was categorically wrong, it's dependent on how many people are trapped in Graviton Surge. Beam is 2x the DPS, so if you have 3 or more trapped then grenades are better, unless there's a priority target that you want to burn down especially fast. zarya's beam also puts out damage for longer (not sure how much longer, 6 or 8 seconds vs 4 seconds of grenades?) so youre getting higher damage for a longer time without a reload. knocking a target fast before moving on to the next has its benefits too if you consider healers and whatnot mitigating that weaker aoe damage
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Sep 19, 2016 21:43
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Wildtortilla posted:Out of 70 season 2 games I've played the new map once. I've played Anubis about 50 times. I feel like Anubis is being played higher. Most of my games have been on Anubis and ilios. I want to play king's row dammit
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Sep 19, 2016 21:49
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Pumpy Dumper posted:I feel like Anubis is being played higher. Most of my games have been on Anubis and ilios. I want to play king's row dammit I'll trade idr the last time I saw ilios but kings row is my home
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Sep 19, 2016 21:51
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Snazzy Frocks posted:zarya's beam also puts out damage for longer (not sure how much longer, 6 or 8 seconds vs 4 seconds of grenades?) so youre getting higher damage for a longer time without a reload. knocking a target fast before moving on to the next has its benefits too if you consider healers and whatnot mitigating that weaker aoe damage Graviton Surge lasts 4 seconds, the same amount of time it takes to unload an entire clip via right clicks (vs 5 seconds to do so via left click), so that extra beam time theoretically only matters for post ult cleanup. It does change the balance a little bit, sure, as does the priority target issue. But even if you only catch 3 people in the ult, you're theoretically doing 540 overall damage with right clicks vs 380 with the beam. Those numbers get MUCH worse for the beam if you catch 4, 5, or 6 people with the ult.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:54
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Main Paineframe posted:Having gold medals for damage and elims doesn't necessarily mean you're doing any of those things, though - it just means you have dual shotguns with a high rate of fire that never run out of ammo. People tend to assume that they're doing well just because they have high numbers, when in reality they might have just gotten credit for other people's kills by spamming ineffectual chip damage into a crowd, or fed a healer's ult by hurting people they can't chase to finish off. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 21:54
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Efexeye posted:i went 6-3-1 in placements and got seeded at 1796 Fateo McMurray posted:I went 6-3-1 and got seeded 2465 The order in which you win your placement matches matters. A lot. Your initial MMR placement works a lot like stretching a spring and letting it bounce around. It moves a lot at first, but its oscillations shrink over time as the system figures out where you really belong. Losing the first 3 games will start matching you in the silver-gold range, while winning your first 3 games will place you up in the platinum league. If you started winning once you got dumped into silver it'll put you in silver, and if you started losing once you get to platinum that's where you'll end up.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:54
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Papercut posted:Graviton Surge lasts 4 seconds, the same amount of time it takes to unload an entire clip via right clicks (vs 5 seconds to do so via left click), so that extra beam time theoretically only matters for post ult cleanup. It does change the balance a little bit, sure, as does the priority target issue. But even if you only catch 3 people in the ult, you're theoretically doing 540 overall damage with right clicks vs 380 with the beam. Those numbers get MUCH worse for the beam if you catch 4, 5, or 6 people with the ult. its a judgement call thing. its ok to do one or the other if you know what youre doing
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Sep 19, 2016 21:56
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Technically you can fire spurts of Zarya's M1 in between M2 shots and do it so that you can still lob all four bombs due to the fact that you can launch an M2 shot even with only a single point of ammo remaining.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:02
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Snazzy Frocks posted:on the one hand, people like to point out that you got gold damage from shooting the reinhardt shield. on the other hand why aren't more people shooting at the reinhardt shield? Good question. As a Pharah player if I don't have anybody else obvious to shoot at I just spam rockets long range at the Rein shield. Breaking his shield regularly instead of just letting him keep it up all the time is vital to breaking pushes.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:06
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What are your favorite potg animations? -All of Junk rats look like something out of Jackass and they are all funny. -OCD Symmetra leveling the camera -Trobjorn I have never seen Ana get play of the game. The only way I'd see it being consistently possible is if a nanoboosted Ally's rampage counted toward her getting potg.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:09
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How is play of the game even decided? I saw plays with soldier 76 getting one for shooting a few guys when i blew up more with D.Va's ultra. Some of them are lackluster for sure.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:19
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Blorange posted:The order in which you win your placement matches matters. A lot. Your initial MMR placement works a lot like stretching a spring and letting it bounce around. It moves a lot at first, but its oscillations shrink over time as the system figures out where you really belong. Losing the first 3 games will start matching you in the silver-gold range, while winning your first 3 games will place you up in the platinum league. If you started winning once you got dumped into silver it'll put you in silver, and if you started losing once you get to platinum that's where you'll end up. is this actually true cause that seems pretty stupid
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Sep 19, 2016 22:20
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Kerrrrrrr posted:is this actually true cause that seems pretty stupid there was a huge tryhard post on /r/competitveoverwatch where this guy gathered a poo poo ton of data and yeah basically you're first 3-4 placement games are the most important for determining your rank
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Sep 19, 2016 22:23
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I lost my first four and won my last 6 and hadn't played during s1 at all so idk how true that is
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Sep 19, 2016 22:28
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Pumpy Dumper posted:there was a huge tryhard post on /r/competitveoverwatch where this guy gathered a poo poo ton of data and yeah basically you're first 3-4 placement games are the most important for determining your rank Season 1 I lost my first thee placement matches and placed at like rank 68 in the end
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Sep 19, 2016 22:31
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Pumpy Dumper posted:there was a huge tryhard post on /r/competitveoverwatch where this guy gathered a poo poo ton of data and yeah basically you're first 3-4 placement games are the most important for determining your rank funny because I lost or tied most of those on ps4 and ranked around 3100 on pc, I did about the same and ranked at around 2600
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Sep 19, 2016 22:49
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Ersatz posted:Well, I cant speak for other people. I just know that a very significant portion of my damage is coming from boosting into reds and unloading point-blank into their heads, in the context of doing the things I wrote about. This is the "oomph" referred to in my original post. As DVA, assuming you're right up in somebody's face and laying into them and the DPS are popping the people you're putting into kill range (or you're finishing off what the DPS critically damages), you shouldn't be too concerned about this. If you're at non-ideal range spamming garbage fire at people and they're backing off and getting healed all you're doing is helping the enemy. Especially true if you already have Self-Destruct up. Shnag posted:How is play of the game even decided? I saw plays with soldier 76 getting one for shooting a few guys when i blew up more with D.Va's ultra. Some of them are lackluster for sure. Knowing this allows you to explain situations where e.g. Zenyatta gets a single kill and doesn't use Transcendence but still gets POTG because he had a Harmony Orb up on a character taking damage you can't see on his screen + he's bouncing Discord Orb between multiple people and getting repeated Assists and thus generating a large amount of Fire. Dead Torbjorn POTGs can be one part turret kills and one part people picking up armor packs (+25 per pickup, so if he has a bunch laid out on the point he could out-generate a Mercy Resurrect if 4-5+ are picked up in short succession).
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Sep 19, 2016 23:23
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Kerrrrrrr posted:is this actually true cause that seems pretty stupid It would be worse for the system to not work like that, those first few games are valid data and it doesn't take a large sample size to tell a silver player from a platinum one. The entire placement match system is a tool plenty of games use to hide this initial MMR volatility. It also works in the systems favor, binning every placement player as if their rank was 2500 is less informative than keeping a running total behind the scenes. If I lose my first game 2500, lose again at 2300, lose a third time at 2000, and finally win at 1800, this is more useful data than losing at 2500, 2500 and 2500 again. You're getting better games because the system puts you against equally qualified players based on the information it has.
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Sep 19, 2016 23:40
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Nakar posted:Score over a period of time, I'm pretty sure. By score I mean Fire generation; a Mercy can be getting +200 Fire in a single action with a Resurrect because it generates a static amount of Fire per resurrection. A multikill ult still takes into account how much damage was already dealt to enemies in assigning Fire to all participants in the Elimination, so if you killed 4 guys with Self-Destruct but they were all at low health you might get ~150 Fire total while S76 gets 2-3 solo kills in quick succession and earns +100 Fire for each and beats you out. Self-Destruct or Death Blossom getting a 3-4 player multikill from full health should be competitive with a Mercy ult in terms of POTG calculation so DVA POTGs tend to be when she launches her mech at freshly-spawned defenders near the end of a payload map. Thanks for the info! That makes sense now that I think about it, since the situation i was thinking about was launching D.Va into a mob of enemies on top of a point fighting with my team, so they all might have been at partial health. Though if that how it works it makes sense so all characters have a chance for it, but it makes for a less exciting "Play of the game" to actually watch if all the points are going on off screen.
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Sep 19, 2016 23:41
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