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Bip Roberts posted:No one has ever built cheap new buildings. The only way to get lower price apartments is to have older units. The fact that people are working hard to nimby everything is going to be a major problem as California goes forward.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:54
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FRINGE posted:Or it will accelerate the mass exodus to
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Mar 31, 2015 03:00
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This is a really old article (from 2010. from a rather stupid economist article), but I just like the visuals. Red is outgoing, Black is incoming.  
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Mar 31, 2015 03:05
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Santa Clara County added 100,000 people in the 2000s and 80,000 people from 2010 to 2013, too.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:10
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Santa Clara County added 100,000 people in the 2000s and 80,000 people from 2010 to 2013, too. Massive immigration will do that. It's crazy growing up in the Bay Area and seeing the dramatic shifts over time. Areas that were formerly not so well off are now topping the charts in schools/incomes as massive Chinese/Indian immigration kicks in. I like the flows on those maps as they are pretty distinct. The more liberal people I knew growing up largely moved to Portland or Seattle (or possibly Colorado), while the more conservative are in Idaho, Arizona, and Texas. Those that are still here have been doing start-ups for years.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:20
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Pervis posted:Massive immigration will do that. It's crazy growing up in the Bay Area and seeing the dramatic shifts over time. Areas that were formerly not so well off are now topping the charts in schools/incomes as massive Chinese/Indian immigration kicks in. Irvington High School in Fremont had one of the elementary schools from the much wealthier, overwhelmingly Asian-American Mission San Jose area zoned into its attendance area in 2000 or so, and after its test scores skyrocketed (it's among the best in the state now), the traditionally working-to-middle-class areas surrounding Irvington started gentrifying like hell. Meanwhile white people fled Fremont in droves over the past two decades.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:23
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enraged_camel posted:No one asked you to.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:44
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I don't know, I'm personally glad that there's at least one state that is slightly on the other side of the prevailing wisdom that the will of the free market trumps all. I like to think it elevates the level of debate, and at least provides lip service for consideration of long term concerns.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:55
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Cicero posted:It's funny to see the spite for developers, as if they were the problem. Even if developers only ever made middle-class housing instead of rich housing, that still wouldn't fix the fundamental problem of there's not enough housing. There's huge amount of new development going on downtown, there's quite a bit of it along the new rail lines. Like any city, if you have the funds or the friends, you can get your project through. Hell, it looks like they have a multibillion-dollar project over in Inglewood that's going to drive right over all of that poo poo. Developers always whine about regulations, lucky for them there's some merit in this situation. There's also quite a bit of other poo poo going on.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:58
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Cicero posted:It's funny to see the spite for developers, as if they were the problem. Even if developers only ever made middle-class housing instead of rich housing, that still wouldn't fix the fundamental problem of there's not enough housing. Plenty of housing out in Tracy or Los Banos. Pittsburgh is on Bart! Here's a 3bed 2 bath for $330k. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/461-Pamela-Dr-Bay-Point-CA-94565/18337450_zpid/ Gentrify away! Proust Malone fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 04:01
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Ron Jeremy posted:Plenty of housing out in Tracy or Los Banos. Pittsburgh is on Bart! I wish they built up as well as out. The two serve totally different demographics.
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Mar 31, 2015 04:04
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Inland Empire is still building out. Ontario alone is expected to add 160,000 residents in about 20 years once their giant housing plan is finally done. http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-property-report-ontario-20141106-story.html
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Mar 31, 2015 04:10
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My old high school is already over capacity and they're building even more multimillion dollar homes in its attendance area because it's a top-100 school as ranked by US News and thus people who move here are willing to pay outrageous sums of money for them
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Mar 31, 2015 04:13
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Irvington High School in Fremont had one of the elementary schools from the much wealthier, overwhelmingly Asian-American Mission San Jose area zoned into its attendance area in 2000 or so, and after its test scores skyrocketed (it's among the best in the state now), the traditionally working-to-middle-class areas surrounding Irvington started gentrifying like hell. I've got friends who went there 15 years ago, and I lived in the Irvington district for a while with them after they graduated, so I got to witness a lot of that. Pleasanton also went through something similar but it's a bit more recent than Fremont. Tesla taking over NUMMI and turning it in to an even bigger employment opportunity I'm sure is a big factor in what's going on, too. A lot of the gentrification is older folks cashing out and getting the gently caress out, and their kids not being able to afford the area, as affording housing in the south bay requires being in a specific industry (typically). For a while in the 90's there were lots of jobs around that didn't require college degrees (or even specific degrees), but that's changed, so growing up locally doesn't increase your chances all that much in ending up being employed locally in a way that allows you to afford a house/family here. Jerry Manderbilt posted:My old high school is already over capacity and they're building even more multimillion dollar homes in its attendance area because it's a top-100 school as ranked by US News and thus people who move here are willing to pay outrageous sums of money for them This is why I laugh my rear end off at any DINKs that whine about paying taxes for schools (especially in richer suburbs): school performance is a huge factor in house prices in this state, so paying some taxes to schools (some of which may even go to poorer areas) is nothing in comparison to the windfall of later selling your house to someone who want their kids in that school.
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Mar 31, 2015 04:50
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Pleasanton? I'd always pegged the Tri-Valley Area as being upscale, interesting to know it wasn't always like that.
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Mar 31, 2015 04:52
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Zeitgueist posted:There's huge amount of new development going on downtown, there's quite a bit of it along the new rail lines. Like any city, if you have the funds or the friends, you can get your project through. Plus, "huge amount of development" is relative. It may be huge on an absolute scale, but is construction for the LA metro huge relative to its current size? Which is, y'know, huge?  Ron Jeremy posted:Plenty of housing out in Tracy or Los Banos. Pittsburgh is on Bart! Here's a 3bed 2 bath for $330k. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/461-Pamela-Dr-Bay-Point-CA-94565/18337450_zpid/ Gentrify away! (also there's no H in Pittsburg, tee hee) Cicero fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 05:26
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Pleasanton? I'd always pegged the Tri-Valley Area as being upscale, interesting to know it wasn't always like that. The western portion near the hills I think was always pretty upscale, but Pleasanton/Dublin were much like Fremont at least when I was growing up many years ago where a lot of the town was decent but definitely reachable. Also minimal rush hour traffic  . There were lots of older/cheaper neighborhoods and schools were ok to good. It's relative of course - it's not like what happened to Mountain View/Sunnyvale. The richer areas of the Tri-Valley were Blackhawk/Alamo more than Pleasanton, but now Pleasanton schools are amazing and housing is fairly expensive, even in the older areas. When the data from the last census came out the changes in Pleasanton and the build-out and racial makeup of the Dougherty valley were pretty surprising.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:01
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Pervis posted:I've got friends who went there 15 years ago, and I lived in the Irvington district for a while with them after they graduated, so I got to witness a lot of that. Pleasanton also went through something similar but it's a bit more recent than Fremont. Tesla taking over NUMMI and turning it in to an even bigger employment opportunity I'm sure is a big factor in what's going on, too. A lot of the gentrification is older folks cashing out and getting the gently caress out, and their kids not being able to afford the area, as affording housing in the south bay requires being in a specific industry (typically). For a while in the 90's there were lots of jobs around that didn't require college degrees (or even specific degrees), but that's changed, so growing up locally doesn't increase your chances all that much in ending up being employed locally in a way that allows you to afford a house/family here. I actually went there and lived in Fremont until going to college. I am not sure how much Tesla has anything to do with Fremont resident jobs though. I don't know a single person who had a parent that worked at NUMMI, and my dad does not recall knowing anyone that worked there who lived in Fremont either. I assume most employees could not afford Fremont unless they bought in the 80's and they commute in from further north like Hayward or San Lorenzo or whatever. I guess my parents live in the hot area code, and they get constant offers on their house. They bought it in the 70's for like 60k :v The demographics of their neighborhood have definitely changed though. I am guessing when I was in Elementary school it was probably 65% white, 15% Asian, 15% Hispanic, and 5% black. Now looking it up and it is 84% Asian and 6% white. I recall when they moved the high school boundaries around there was a huge uproar and a failed attempt to create a new school district so their precious Aiden (Jiang?) would not have to go to a middle class school instead of an upper middle class school.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:22
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You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t
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Ron Jeremy posted:Plenty of housing out in Tracy or Los Banos. Pittsburgh is on Bart! Here's a 3bed 2 bath for $330k. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/461-Pamela-Dr-Bay-Point-CA-94565/18337450_zpid/ Gentrify away! But I'm a special snowflake and I need to
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Mar 31, 2015 07:26
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Cicero posted:It's funny to see the spite for developers, as if they were the problem. Even if developers only ever made middle-class housing instead of rich housing, that still wouldn't fix the fundamental problem of there's not enough housing. Bay area activists have a really, really hard time grappling with this. Even if you were building strictly to break even on your investment (and nobody will do this given the risks involve in RE development), the cost per-unit of a 2BR apartment in a five story 100 unit development significantly exceeds what the area median income can afford.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:51
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:My old high school is already over capacity and they're building even more multimillion dollar homes in its attendance area because it's a top-100 school as ranked by US News and thus people who move here are willing to pay outrageous sums of money for them See everybody tries to get into these top-100 high schools so they can get their kids to college, but they're doing it bass-ackwards. EVERYBODY who applies to Harvard is going to be at a top-100 high school. During the admissions process, that means you get put into the ho-hum file. You put your kid in a rundown school, though, they get a 4,0, and they do volunteer work, have some ideas, some independent research - they can write a motherfuckin cheque to any Ivy or better they like.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:57
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pathetic little tramp posted:See everybody tries to get into these top-100 high schools so they can get their kids to college, but they're doing it bass-ackwards. Sadly though, your kid in the rundown school makes the wrong kind of friends, loses interest in academics, and ends up going to community college to stay with their girlfriend.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:59
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Kaal posted:Sadly though, your kid in the rundown school makes the wrong kind of friends, loses interest in academics, and ends up going to community college to stay with their girlfriend. Eh, I think there are more of the wrong kind of friends at a top-100 school than at a high school like mine was in Appalachia. I had a 4,0, average SAT (I think like 1400 or so back when it was 1600max), volunteered at a hospital like... twice, and ended up accepted at Harvard, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Notre Dame... and I forget if it was Brown or Yale, but one of those. I didn't do half the poo poo some Orange County motherfuckers did that I met at college. The good kids from my school ended up doing okay, the weirdos are weirdos everywhere though.
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Mar 31, 2015 17:06
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Pain of Mind posted:I actually went there and lived in Fremont until going to college. I am not sure how much Tesla has anything to do with Fremont resident jobs though. I don't know a single person who had a parent that worked at NUMMI, and my dad does not recall knowing anyone that worked there who lived in Fremont either. I assume most employees could not afford Fremont unless they bought in the 80's and they commute in from further north like Hayward or San Lorenzo or whatever. I guess my parents live in the hot area code, and they get constant offers on their house. They bought it in the 70's for like 60k :v The demographics of their neighborhood have definitely changed though. I am guessing when I was in Elementary school it was probably 65% white, 15% Asian, 15% Hispanic, and 5% black. Now looking it up and it is 84% Asian and 6% white. I recall when they moved the high school boundaries around there was a huge uproar and a failed attempt to create a new school district so their precious Aiden (Jiang?) would not have to go to a middle class school instead of an upper middle class school. Bolded is pretty likely, yeah; as someone who grew up around the area I think you're talking about, absolutely do not underestimate the capacity of rich FYGM Asian immigrants to feel sociopathic levels of hatred towards underrepresented minorities. Pervis posted:The western portion near the hills I think was always pretty upscale, but Pleasanton/Dublin were much like Fremont at least when I was growing up many years ago where a lot of the town was decent but definitely reachable. Also minimal rush hour traffic Ah, I see. And Jesus, I've seen the northbound traffic on 680 at like 3-5 and wouldn't wish that on anyone; plenty of folks take Mission/Washington/Osgood/Durham just to try and dodge as much of the 680 standstill as possible. Just about everywhere in Fremont east of 680 gets clogged up as well as a result. I was also pretty surprised to see the demographic changes in Pleasanton and Dougherty Valley as well; visiting a few of the high schools in that area, they were really well-built and it'd have been nice to go there
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Mar 31, 2015 17:34
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pathetic little tramp posted:some independent research Is this really a thing that happens?
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Mar 31, 2015 18:36
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Kobayashi posted:Is this really a thing that happens? Yeah, it's pretty rare to be published at that age if you're going with that definition of research, but high school kids take classes at community colleges, learn languages on their own, or write research papers even though they're not going to get them published in a real journal or anything, but it can at least maybe get reviewed by a local college professor or work with a high school teacher to mark it as extra credit type of thing.
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Mar 31, 2015 20:45
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I live in a suburb right next to a highschool and all I've noticed over time is how much more vandalism happens now. Even got garages doors getting broken into and poo poo. Kinda scary. Guess that's what happens when you help tank your highschool's STAR test scores. 
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Mar 31, 2015 20:59
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pathetic little tramp posted:See everybody tries to get into these top-100 high schools so they can get their kids to college, but they're doing it bass-ackwards. or they get a subpar education because the american school system punishes poor schools for being poor by taking away even more funding and giving it to rich schools
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Mar 31, 2015 21:16
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Pomp posted:or they get a subpar education because the american school system punishes poor schools for being poor by taking away even more funding and giving it to rich schools People need incentives.  The free market will fix education.
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Mar 31, 2015 21:24
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Also, excessive reliance and abuse of standardized testing is destroying American education. We are creating institutions designed to train children to take and pass tests, above all other educational considerations, and it's working... we're generating college students who don't know anything and don't know how to think, but have good test scores.
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Mar 31, 2015 22:21
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It's always been a bizarre irony to me that we always seek to emulate the intense testing and rote memorization of other countries' primary school systems while they all try to emulate the critical thinking and inquisitiveness present in our higher education.
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Mar 31, 2015 22:25
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I don't recall "let's be more like the foreigners" being a major point of argument during the whole No Child Left Behind putsh of the Bush Jr. administration, which is when we instituted nationalized standardized testing linked to school funding. It might be in there somewhere, but the main deal seemed to be a strong anti-teacher vibe. Bad schools and kids not learning is obviously the fault of bad teachers who can't be fired, and the way to change this is to use tests not under the teachers' control and remove their autonomy. Now they must teach what will be on the test, or the school fails and the kids get to go to whatever replaces that school. Which is charter schools, private schools leaching money from the public education system, to ensure the children of wealthier Republicans can afford to go to a private school where they can pray in class if they want to. Meanwhile we can gut and shut down public education. It is ironic of course that it's an emulation of the worst aspects of soul-crushing institutionalized Japanese-style educational systems, but I also think it's mostly a coincidence.
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Mar 31, 2015 22:37
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Leperflesh posted:I don't recall "let's be more like the foreigners" being a major point of argument during the whole No Child Left Behind putsh of the Bush Jr. administration, which is when we instituted nationalized standardized testing linked to school funding. It might be in there somewhere, but the main deal seemed to be a strong anti-teacher vibe. Bad schools and kids not learning is obviously the fault of bad teachers who can't be fired, and the way to change this is to use tests not under the teachers' control and remove their autonomy. Now they must teach what will be on the test, or the school fails and the kids get to go to whatever replaces that school. Some people love placing Singapore as a city on a hill, particularly in regards to education.
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Mar 31, 2015 22:40
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Nothing like a literal fascist state to hold up as the ideal for what America should be! RIP LKY, may your son carry on your glorious legacy.
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Mar 31, 2015 23:15
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Cicero posted:Isn't that exactly the problem? If you need to have "the funds or the friends", won't that be more of an impediment to relatively affordable development than luxury development? The zoning laws changed but those old buildings are grandfathered in. If you buy that land and redevelop it then you are going to have less units. The highest and best use, in most cases, is in its current use as an old building from the 1910s with 25 units vs a brand new building with 5 units. There is a law in California that allows property owners to rebuild the building (in case of destruction) as it was (even if it was legal non-conforming), so it's pretty cozy to sit on that place. Enigma89 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 23:28
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The fundamental issue you're describing is zoning, and the disinterest people have in cities in allowing higher-density zoning in their backyards. Those laws that dictate a certain density can be changed, simply by rezoning for higher density: but the voters and communities in question don't want to. The landowners in those communities are disincentivized to, because refusing to allow density to increase drives up home prices due to the restriction on supply... and they already own the homes. Renters must seize control of their cities and force rezoning for density.
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Mar 31, 2015 23:54
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Cicero posted:It's funny to see the spite for developers, as if they were the problem. Even if developers only ever made middle-class housing instead of rich housing, that still wouldn't fix the fundamental problem of there's not enough housing. This is a real thing, and there is no national attention to tear the banks to shreds and start passing out property to the citizens. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=an17jgiccivM quote:(2009) quote:(2011) quote:(2013) quote:Actually putting this property to good use, however, is harder than it seems. Or maybe, given the legal complexities of owning property, it's exactly as hard as it seems. More current: http://www.endhomelessness.org/pages/snapshot_of_homelessness quote:By the numbers: Developers are, on the whole, the same species of poo poo-crusted vampires as the banking class is. They want to prop prices up, create un-needed things to sell, and then laugh in their piles of money while the country falls apart. And the banks? Why would I pick on the poor little banks? For a long list of reasons Ive posted in the past, but I will add one just as a representative placeholder: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Circle-Bastiat/2011/0729/Banks-bulldoze-houses-despite-millions-being-homeless http://business.time.com/2011/08/01/bulldoze-the-new-way-to-foreclose/ quote:Now with Lewis long gone, Bank of America (BoA) owns a glut of abandoned houses it can’t sell. So the largest mortgage servicer has decided to bulldoze some of its inventory. And BoA isn’t alone. Wells Fargo, Citicorp, JP Morgan Chase and Fannie Mae have started knocking over a few of their repos already. Hmm. We need to inflate prices and dont want to pay taxes... I have an idea!
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Apr 1, 2015 00:24
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FRINGE posted:This is bullshit. They are absolutely part of the problem, along with the banks that back them. Developers are going to develop what makes money. The city doesn't make it any easier with really constricting zoning requirements. Why would anyone ever try to buy a brand new multi-family project in lets say Los Angeles or San Diego when you can just buy a place that has more income potential because it allows for more units. I know it's popular to demonize banks but I don't really think they give a poo poo and it's not their job to give a poo poo. Cities need to start relaxing zoning requirements. I think Los Angeles requires 2 or 2.5 parking spaces per unit now, roflmao. Why in the world is Los Angeles still trying to force people to develop projects with huge parking requirements. They could of done what San Diego did and require only 0.5 parking space per unit to try to force people to use public transport and/or walk. I don't know why you care if developers are developing things that people don't need. If people are buying it then they should build and sell it. It may not be 'needed' but it is in demand. Enigma89 fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Apr 1, 2015 00:52
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Enigma89 posted:force people to use public transport and/or walk. Enigma89 posted:I don't know why you care if developers are developing things that people don't need. If people are buying it then they should build and sell it. It may not be 'needed' but it is in demand.
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Apr 1, 2015 00:56
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There's loads of empty housing! in Detroit Therefore it's evil for companies to build housing in California! Argh!
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Apr 1, 2015 01:28
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