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How is CWII for someone who thinks the original is one of the worst comics ever published?
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Jul 7, 2016 00:32
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Gilok posted:
Your life would be so much better if you bothered to look at Reader's stuff. Lightning Lord posted:How is CWII for someone who thinks the original is one of the worst comics ever published? By some miracle, Bendis managed to make the sequel even worse. SilverSupernova fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 00:33
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Gaz-L posted:Speaking of... did the Karnak book actually get cancelled? It's probably just got Warren Ellis syndrome.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:33
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Lightning Lord posted:How is CWII for someone who thinks the original is one of the worst comics ever published? It's okay so far. The art is great! But it seems like the real event hasn't even really started yet. Like people are mad, but it's not really that bad. But based on the rumors, that should change next issue.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:35
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Gaz-L posted:Speaking of... did the Karnak book actually get cancelled? #5's due out in August allegedly. #6 in September. The first trade is still listed as Karnak Vol 1, whereas other books were renamed without the "Vol 1" on the end when they were being stealth-cancelled so for now it looks safe but I can't find any info on a #7 and onward. I really wanted to like it, but the delays just killed the flow of the book for me. Gonna wait for the trade.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:38
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SilverSupernova posted:
This is by any measurement a wrong statement. It's fine if a bit slow so far, and unlike CWI the tie-ins have all been really really good, filling in various elements of the main story or ruminating on its philosophy to good dramatic payoff.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:40
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Toxxupation posted:This is by any measurement a wrong statement. Counterpoint: The main conflict is literally Tony Stark starting a war with an entire nation over a childish hissy fit. The original had some sort of ideological conflict, even if it didn't stick to it. This one is just Tony acting extremely stupid because his best friend volunteered for a suicide mission.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:45
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SilverSupernova posted:Your life would be so much better if you bothered to look at Reader's stuff. I forgot Reader, yeah, I really like him. That might prove my point, I don't know. Like, I'm reading the Inhumans books and I'm trying to follow everything but like, all of these young dudes roll completely off my brain. I know there's an Inhuman called Inferno, but I know this because I remember the comic where Gorgon rocked out to heavy metal. I cannot remember anything about him or his powers (I'm guessing fire). I know there's one called Iso but I don't remember what they look like or what they do. I know there's one that looks like a lizard but isn't Anole from the X-Men. There's that one guy who's a police detective and looks completely normal, and he seems interesting, but I can't remember his name or what his powers are. I don't know if it's me or the writers, but I am just totally failing to care about almost all of these characters. Maybe it's because the original Inhumans are getting all the spotlight, or maybe that's the only reason I'm still reading the books, I don't know. EDIT: It's probably not just me, since apparently everyone who worked on or approved the second story in Civil War 2: Kingpin had no idea who Inferno was. I guess they got a note that said "Put Inferno in here someplace" and just decided he was probably a bad guy. Cool Dad fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 00:45
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The Inhumans suck so much because their Marvel trying Instant X-Men Film Franchise (Just Add Water)
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Jul 7, 2016 00:53
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SilverSupernova posted:Counterpoint: The main conflict is literally Tony Stark starting a war with an entire nation over a childish hissy fit. The original had some sort of ideological conflict, even if it didn't stick to it. This one is just Tony acting extremely stupid because his best friend volunteered for a suicide mission. There's been literally no war started. This is based off two parts of a seven part story where tensions are high but not past the Rubicon of a "Civil War" per se. In fact, the end of the second issue is all about how the Inhumans stood down from escalation, and Tony for his part pulling himself back from the brink. And again, the tie-in issues both from ongoings and from CWII-specific minis portray Captain Marvel's Pre-Crime squad as increasingly authoritarian and dickish, preventing due process, a overreaction to less-significant or deadly crimes, and a general overreliance on Ulysses as always correct while simultaneously being secretive and vague as to his reliability or actual process.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:56
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Toxxupation posted:And again, the tie-in issues both from ongoings and from CWII-specific minis portray Captain Marvel's Pre-Crime squad as increasingly authoritarian and dickish, preventing due process, a overreaction to less-significant or deadly crimes, and a general overreliance on Ulysses as always correct while simultaneously being secretive and vague as to his reliability or actual process. This sounds like the pro-registration side getting painted as uniformly Super-Nazis in the first CW, which was like, half the problem.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:58
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This week's issue of Captain America (Sam Wilson) made pretty good cases for both sides. The problem so far is that the main series hasn't done much to point out the potential flaws in Ulysses power set or Carol's argument, and has had Tony act like an impulsive idiot (which, in point of fact, he is). It's also really early in the series, and I think the way it's going to play out over the next few issues is "Tony acted like an idiot because he totally predicted all of the bad things that are about to happen and ISN'T THAT IRONIC?!" Also I think they're about to kill Bruce Banner, for some reason, and after this week's Hulk I'm so sad about that.
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Jul 7, 2016 01:04
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The futurist being a better predictor than the actual precog does seem like pretty solid literary irony. I think we're also now at the part where you can see where different titles/creative teams lie, considering most of the books where Carol is a main player (Ultimates, Spider-Woman) paint her as possibly abrasive, but concerned about the possible failings of Ulysses. Hell, this week's Spider-Woman is literally her hiring Jessica, Roger and Ben to vet his predictions of small stuff.
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Jul 7, 2016 01:12
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  I'm loving it.
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Jul 7, 2016 01:51
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CW1 was characterized by Tony having an understandable reasonable stance and taking it to truly supervillain levels. So far CW2 has been a much less reasonable stance, but he hasn't really DONE much about it but cry and throw a tantrum. But still, 2 issues out of 7.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:02
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JoshTheStampede posted:CW1 was characterized by Tony having an understandable reasonable stance and taking it to truly supervillain levels. Isn't Stark's stance here that maybe people shouldn't get Minority Reported? That seems reasonable to me.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:03
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I hope the ending to Civil War II is whoever wins looking at a TV and going "Wait, Loki's running for President?"
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Jul 7, 2016 02:05
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Lightning Lord posted:Isn't Stark's stance here that maybe people shouldn't get Minority Reported? That seems reasonable to me. Yeah, and in the tie in issues that is made more clear. In the main series he gets mad about his friend dying in a battle and extrapolates that to "whatever led you to have that battle is wrong even though it saved millions of lives and your superhero friend knew the risks" At that point the precog is literally only being used to react to world-ending threats, they aren't thoughtcriming anyone yet. Now that may change next issue, and retroactively make Tony right. But for now he's a giant baby.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:09
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Lightning Lord posted:Isn't Stark's stance here that maybe people shouldn't get Minority Reported? That seems reasonable to me. The problem is that if you're only reading the main series and not the tie-ins, everything Ulysses has predicted has been apocalyptic in nature and completely correct, and nobody has done anything even slightly unreasonable about it. The argument as it stands right now is ”cool, we know where to be before giant space evil gets there” vs ”how dare you try to stop Thanos while letting grown superheros make their own decisions.”
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Jul 7, 2016 02:11
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JoshTheStampede posted:Yeah, and in the tie in issues that is made more clear. In the main series he gets mad about his friend dying in a battle and extrapolates that to "whatever led you to have that battle is wrong even though it saved millions of lives and your superhero friend knew the risks" The thoughtcriming's already begun Carol tries to get Kamala to catch a guy who might be about to rob a place
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Jul 7, 2016 02:18
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Blockhouse posted:The thoughtcriming's already begun Yeah, like I said, in the tie in issues. If you don't read Ms. Marvel you'd never know that. The main event comic has been a fight against Celestials and a fight against Thanos, both of which were responded to after they happened.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:28
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I'm not reading it, so question: How are the pre-crimes being dealt with, legally? Do they just show up at a police station and say "this guy was totes about to do it, book'em danno"?
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Jul 7, 2016 02:28
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It feels like Civil War II is headed in the same direction as Civil War I in that there's no clear set of rules in place and so people's arguments can be as good or bad as they want to be within a given book. The Superhuman Registration Act was malleable to the point of being alternately "well if you don't want to enlist in SHIELD just retire or move to Canada or I dunno, lie low for a little bit until we figure this out" in some books, or "JOIN IMMEDIATELY or we are going to send Bullseye to murder your family if you don't put on this brown shirt by midnight tonight". In some books there were all sorts of efforts taken to make sure the conscientious objectors were treated humanely, in other books people were making GBS threads in buckets on dirt floors in the Negative Zone while prison guards encouraged them to commit suicide. Since there were no actual rules, you couldn't really pick a side and everyone came off kind of insane. In the core CWII book, all of Ulysses's "predictions" have been like involuntary and immediate flashes of OH poo poo IMMEDIATELY IMPENDING DISASTER. I'm really not sure how there's much of anything objectionable in the core book. It's just "a monster is attacking this place tomorrow, be ready to stop the monster when it tries to kill everyone". The third vision/cliffhanger of "the monster who will kill everyone this time is your pal the Hulk, not a villain" and maybe now we'll explore different options and opinions but when the "pre-crime" is "Thanos is going to teleport into a base and try to kill everyone and steal something" and then you wait around and Thanos teleports in and tries to kill everyone, how is that Orwellian or pre-crime? It's crime-crime, and magic-power aside it's not any different than like the police getting a tip that someone is going to hold up a bank and being there when they go THIS IS A ROBBERY and arresting him. This is established in the main book, and Tony repeatedly gets to question Ulysses and ask him about it, so when he's in another book going "I dunno man, what if he's running people's credit scores and ethnic backgrounds through a database and racially profiling them???????????? That's why I don't trust this" is kind of dumb. Likewise you have other tie-ins where Captain Marvel is just running around going "Ulysses had eighty hundred visions now go bust down this guy's door and perp walk him in front of his kids because he might rob a liquor store next week!" which makes her look terrible too. Even her defense in Spencer's book which is "hey we don't think about morality lol we just punch stuff" was pretty suspect.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:34
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Is the Ewing Ulysses book good even if I don't care at all about the Inhumans and don't read their books?
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Jul 7, 2016 02:36
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Gilok posted:The problem is that if you're only reading the main series and not the tie-ins, everything Ulysses has predicted has been apocalyptic in nature and completely correct, and nobody has done anything even slightly unreasonable about it. The argument as it stands right now is ”cool, we know where to be before giant space evil gets there” vs ”how dare you try to stop Thanos while letting grown superheros make their own decisions.” I'm constantly disappointed that Thanos is now the go-to generic space thug for events. Edge & Christian posted:It feels like Civil War II is headed in the same direction as Civil War I in that there's no clear set of rules in place and so people's arguments can be as good or bad as they want to be within a given book. The Superhuman Registration Act was malleable to the point of being alternately "well if you don't want to enlist in SHIELD just retire or move to Canada or I dunno, lie low for a little bit until we figure this out" in some books, or "JOIN IMMEDIATELY or we are going to send Bullseye to murder your family if you don't put on this brown shirt by midnight tonight". In some books there were all sorts of efforts taken to make sure the conscientious objectors were treated humanely, in other books people were making GBS threads in buckets on dirt floors in the Negative Zone while prison guards encouraged them to commit suicide. Since there were no actual rules, you couldn't really pick a side and everyone came off kind of insane. So lay low and stick to books I'm already reading until it's over unless things drastically change, good to know.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:42
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Lightning Lord posted:I'm constantly disappointed that Thanos is now the go-to generic space thug for events. Well Galactus is passé/a joke now.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:43
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JoshTheStampede posted:Well Galactus is passé/a joke now. Don't like him being generic space threat either, same with the Celestials, actually. They all have greater purposes and goals. At least with Galactus' hunger there's sort of a reason for him to be used that way.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:45
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Edge & Christian posted:It feels like Civil War II is headed in the same direction as Civil War I in that there's no clear set of rules in place and so people's arguments can be as good or bad as they want to be within a given book. The Superhuman Registration Act was malleable to the point of being alternately "well if you don't want to enlist in SHIELD just retire or move to Canada or I dunno, lie low for a little bit until we figure this out" in some books, or "JOIN IMMEDIATELY or we are going to send Bullseye to murder your family if you don't put on this brown shirt by midnight tonight". In some books there were all sorts of efforts taken to make sure the conscientious objectors were treated humanely, in other books people were making GBS threads in buckets on dirt floors in the Negative Zone while prison guards encouraged them to commit suicide. Since there were no actual rules, you couldn't really pick a side and everyone came off kind of insane. And the flipside is the stuff I brought up where Carol's shown to be really concerned about the possible fallibility and ethical concerns, but coming up against things like, in her own title, a mad scientist with a bioweapon and literally no way to track her before she unleashes it. Or in Spider-Woman where she's really worried about if Tony's right and goes to someone she both implicitly trusts AND trusts to be as impartial as possible to look into how reliable he is.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:46
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Lightning Lord posted:Don't like him being generic space threat either, same with the Celestials, actually. They all have greater purposes and goals. At least with Galactus' hunger there's sort of a reason for him to be used that way. Well, kind of. Galactus is the original cosmic thug, even if he had lofty noble goals attributed to him eventually. In the spirit of the original story he was still very much "holy poo poo big space guy wants to destroy our planet". The Celestials are more true to being above that role.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:53
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Gaz-L posted:And the flipside is the stuff I brought up where Carol's shown to be really concerned about the possible fallibility and ethical concerns, but coming up against things like, in her own title, a mad scientist with a bioweapon and literally no way to track her before she unleashes it. Or in Spider-Woman where she's really worried about if Tony's right and goes to someone she both implicitly trusts AND trusts to be as impartial as possible to look into how reliable he is. quote:It doesn't matter how it works. The point is it does. Everybody wants to be high-minded and take a stand on principle here, but that's not where we live. We punch people for a living.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:55
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Edge & Christian posted:The whole "consistency across titles" thing is kind of out the window. And like I said, that was half the problem with the first one. Maybe more than half. Have they learned nothing?
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Jul 7, 2016 02:58
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On the one hand, I guess you can kinda follow the normal rules re: consistency across titles so if Carol suddenly starts Minority Reporting people in her cameo in Ms Marvel, you ignore that in the main Civil War series where she doesn't do that and in fact implies that she is intentionally avoiding that in lieu of using Ulysses to deal with only world-ending events. On the other, if I have to follow that system to make the event at all comprehensible, then why the hell is it an event and not just a small crossover series between Iron Man and Captain Marvel?
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Jul 7, 2016 03:10
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Lightning Lord posted:Isn't Stark's stance here that maybe people shouldn't get Minority Reported? That seems reasonable to me. So far his stance has been "You killed my best friend! gently caress you Inhumans! You should have let Thanos do what he wanted when he was looking for cosmic cubes! Stopping him was playing God!"
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Jul 7, 2016 03:15
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SilverSupernova posted:So far his stance has been "You killed my best friend! gently caress you Inhumans! You should have let Thanos do what he wanted when he was looking for cosmic cubes! Stopping him was playing God!" Also, "Carol! You treated your boyfriend like disposable cannon fodder! Stop mourning the loss of your boyfriend and one of your closer friends and focus more on how their deaths are all your fault!" "Also, any deaths that resulted in Civil War I or any other event where people under my command were seriously hurt or killed are NOT my fault and are probably also Carol's fault."
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Jul 7, 2016 03:18
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JoshTheStampede posted:CW1 was characterized by Tony having an understandable reasonable stance and taking it to truly supervillain levels. Codependent Poster posted:It's okay so far. The art is great! Yea these are my issues with it. It's not really BAD but the 'bad' side has a much more absurd and unreasonable stance than Tony's 'hey ok this is gonna turn real fascist real fast but the base idea that maybe there needs to be accountability for us isn't the worst thing ever right' stuff. Still I can't get too annoyed yet because nothing really happening in these first couple issues. Basically everyone's agreeing 'yes I am quite upset about this' but no one's really throwing the first punch. On one hand I do like that it feels like more of a slowly boiling thing, but on the other...it's a 7 issue event called Civil War 2, they should probably get going on that whole civil war thing next issue. The art is quite good, and so far there's nothing as lovely as Penance so right now it's biggest sin is being kinda slow and requiring too much 'well in the side story you see' stuff for you to get the full picture. Like mentioned we don't really see the thought-crime aspects pop up unless you read the one side story where someone said 'hey this dude may rob a store,  '. That's probably something that needs to be in the 'core' story!Still, despite my complaining I think this very easily can turn into the better of the two Civil War stories, they just need to get this poo poo moving better and they need to set out 'the rules' in a much more clearer way and stick to them.
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Jul 7, 2016 03:31
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The story reads as far more coherent in escalation than in CWI. People's motivations seem more or less consistent across titles - Tony was voicing concerns with fallibility, profiling, and bias in the first post-Celestial meetup where he warns Captain Marvel. And stuff like this? DrProsek posted:Also, "Carol! You treated your boyfriend like disposable cannon fodder! Stop mourning the loss of your boyfriend and one of your closer friends and focus more on how their deaths are all your fault!" Yeah, this is aggressively misinterpreting the actual text. Tony Stark literally says that he was an authoritarian dick who was wrong, and he made a bad call that hurt and killed people back in CWI. That's why he's so vehemently anti-authoritarian this go around because he hosed up big time and caused CWI which led into The Initiative and eventually Dark Reign. Like, as per usual with Tony Stark he's as much against the Ulysses stuff because he's being demonized by his own past and his own mistakes (and sees Captain Marvel making the same ones) as he is from any sort of moralistic vantage point. As with a vast majority of tie-ins, as with basically every line-wide crossover event unless events are explicitly shown to be happening simultaneously they're happening at different times. So we already have a loose internal chronology for what Captain Marvel does (with holes that'll probably be filled in by the main series issues): Captain Marvel's ongoing states that she's made aware of a Kree terrorist, gets frustrated she can't catch her , which she's in a mental state where she's more inclined to be supportive of a pre-cog that can prevent a citywide disaster from happening. She calls in Ulysses (having been made aware of him previously from CWII 0) then something happens causing her to trust Ulysses more (this'll probably be covered in subsequent issues of Captain Marvel). Still worried about Tony's warning from CWII 1 for reliability she goes to Jessica Drew to investigate his validity as a source of information. Then something happens (this'll probably be covered in Spider-Woman), Ulysses warns Captain Marvel about Thanos. Captain Marvel calls in A-Force and the Ultimates to support (as Rhodey just happened to be there) so the events from CWII FCBD happen. Tony kidnaps Ulysses in his grief, Captain Marvel goes to track him down (preventing a Inhuman/Tony war from breaking out), Ulysses warns everyone in the room that Hulk's gonna kill everyone. In her grief, unwilling to allow another tragedy, she goes to track Banner down. Then something happens (this'll probably be covered in CWII 3) and it's at that point that Carol Danvers has crossed the figurative Rubicon. The pre-crime task force she formulated with Ms Marvel's help, playing on her idolization of Carol, gets its powers expanded and tougher crackdowns on pettier crimes. She starts jailing former criminals for crimes they might be or about to commit since she allowed Thanos to get far enough to kill her lover and whatever happened with Banner in CWII 3. And so on. I really like CWII, and I like it for two reasons: Firstly, due to the tie-ins being at least "really good" and presenting different sides of the argument and how the deleterious effects of it are going to destroy people in their own way or how they perceive others - seriously, the Road to CWII issues of AN Wolverine, Ultimates, Ms Marvel, and Totally Awesome Hulk have been great, the Road to CWII issues of Invincible Iron Man are totally fine (not, like, the absolute greatest thing ever but, you know, it's Bendis giving Tony Stark backstory so his actions in the main series make sense), and the CWII issues of Uncanny Inhumans, Ms Marvel, New Avengers, Captain America Sam Wilson, and Ultimates have all been fantastic. Nova and Spider-Woman had perfectly good CWII issues (although all of Spider-Woman's CWII-ness, the most engaging part of the book, is all tacked on at the end), definitely not great but, you know, still enjoyable stuff. It feels like an event that has only strengthened the titles that are doing Road To/CWII tie-ins because the creators have things they want to say or angles they want to examine about the conflict at its heart, over some editorial mandate to crowbar in a CW tie-in come hell or high water. And that's not to mention the CWII-specific minis or one-shots, which for every one that I've read they've all been fantastic stories - except for Choosing Sides, that one was pretty ignorable. But X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, Kingpin? All great minis so far. It feels like an event that even if you don't like it have had no negative effects on the qualities of the ongoings running while it was going, a common complaint leveraged at CWI. Secondly, I'm glad that it's an event where, in contrast to basically every other line-wide crossover Marvel does, everyone in it openly acknowledges a previous event. Like, you don't see Captain America going "Remember when we all went evil? What's up with that?" or Iron Man casually mentioning how Asgardia crashed in Oklahoma because Norman Osborn, evil Director of SHIELD decided to invade it. Every event's quarantined off in its own little zone, as much as for coherency's sake as anything else, but here it feels very much like an event where the cloud of CWI is hanging over everyone and they're trying to prevent that from happening. Now, obviously, this is partially due to its name but a ton of Tony's motivations are guilt over how CWI and especially the fallout of CWI was handled, and even beyond it all the CWI "vets" seem to adopt an attitude of "We've already been through all this horseshit once before, let's try to prevent it any way we can". There's this creeping sense of unavoidable tragedy that permeates the event and a real sense of fatalism that I really like. It's also why I'm fine with the pacing, because to me it makes sense - this is a world that has gone through Civil War I and The Initiative and Spider-Slayers and superhuman suppressing shots and World War Hulk and Dark Reign and Dark Avengers and all of that awful, awful poo poo that took four years of real-world time to finally clear up, with a rebranding literally titled "The Heroic Age", becase it was such a dark period for so long. And the characters in CWII, especially its principals, are all aware of how dark the period from The Initiative to the end of Siege was, so it makes sense they'd be trying to avoid the impending disaster for as long as possible. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 03:47
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ed: double post
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Jul 7, 2016 04:23
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JoshTheStampede posted:Well Galactus is passé/a joke now. Lightning Lord posted:Don't like him being generic space threat either, same with the Celestials, actually. They all have greater purposes and goals. At least with Galactus' hunger there's sort of a reason for him to be used that way. WickedHate posted:Well, kind of. Galactus is the original cosmic thug, even if he had lofty noble goals attributed to him eventually. In the spirit of the original story he was still very much "holy poo poo big space guy wants to destroy our planet". The Celestials are more true to being above that role.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:52
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Toxxupation posted:Tony Stark literally says that he was an authoritarian dick who was wrong, and he made a bad call that hurt and killed people back in CWI. That's why he's so vehemently anti-authoritarian this go around because he hosed up big time and caused CWI which led into The Initiative and eventually Dark Reign. Tony Stark, upon learning his friend died while on a mission he volunteered for, fighting against one of the most dangerous threats in the galaxy, is so overwhelmed with anti-authoritarianism and humility he kidnaps an Inhuman guy from New Attilan and causes a major diplomatic incident. But, like, humbly. Ulysses points out that if all he wanted was to get a better understanding of his powers, he could have simply asked and Ulysses would have consented. Tony, remembering that in the past he has made unnecessary leaps because he was convinced he was in the right, reminds Ulysses that his friend died and therefore he was entitled to antagonize the Inhumans. quote:Like, as per usual with Tony Stark he's as much against the Ulysses stuff because he's being demonized by his own past and his own mistakes (and sees Captain Marvel making the same ones) as he is from any sort of moralistic vantage point. What mistakes? Literally all she has done at this point is heard from Ulysses "Oh hey Thanos is coming", and put together a squad to be there when he landed. At worst she made poor tactical decisions based on faulty info, Tony locked up his friends in an alternate dimension because he became a tinpot dictator. We don't even have the Minority Reporting from Ms Marvel because the conversation by She Hulk's bed implied Carol acting on Ulysses' info was new. Their mistakes are alike in the same sense Tony made the same mistakes as Napoleon Bonaparte made in the winter campaign in Russia. Also, it was very humble and important for Tony to blame Carol for her boyfriend's death as her close friend lay dying next to her. So humble. So brave. Like I guess it's cool he thinks he's humble and anti-authoritarian now, but his actions don't reflect that at all and at best read like he's projecting his own feelings of self hating onto other people randomly.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:56
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DrProsek posted:Like I guess it's cool he thinks he's humble and anti-authoritarian now, but his actions don't reflect that at all and at best read like he's projecting his own feelings of self hating onto other people randomly. I dunno why you're saying it's a criticism of the work for Tony Stark to act in the Tony Stark-ist way possible to a tragedy. Like that's textbook Tony, as Sam literally says this week "Even when he's right he's a dick". And again he went into CWI with the exact same outlook and reasoning that Carol is going into CWII, where he went "look we need some limits and accountability and it needs to be to an impartial outside authority". It started the same way Carol's proposing, with a very small scope and reasonable limits on privacy for costumed heroes the same way Carol wants to only use Ulysses to prevent universal threats, and it blew out of loving control. It just happened a lot quicker than Carol is taking it here, but the exact road Carol and Tony from CWI are traveling is the same one. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 05:17
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