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The Han Solo movie thing is more than a reshoot. Lord and Miller was fired before they finished principal filming.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:42
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Calaveron posted:Now see here, now I much more prefer the second one Not enough skulls.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:43
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It's good to know that Snyder's visual style will be pretty much intact during the big setpieces, aside from some changes in color grading that will maybe look better in the theater and maybe worse, but I'm still pretty worried about Whedon taking the reins on more dialogue-heavy scenes but I'm leery of any movie that acts like visual design is something you turn on and off Take Doctor Strange for example. For all that that movie was lauded for its Trippy Kaleidoscopes of Visuals, it was very much an affair where like, okay we're done with these special effects shots? Let's now return to our extremely brown monastery and shoot everything in middle distance with diffuse neutral lighting. Snyder is generally pretty good at putting enough flair into his conversational shots to avoid that, like how when Lex steps between Clark and Bruce at his gala in Batman v Superman, he's constantly framed with a grotesque crooked halo that's entirely too big to fit his head
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Jul 27, 2017 01:44
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When the SDCC trailer (which was cut and color-graded by Whedon) was released, the thread consensus was "Justice League lookin' good." Now, screencaps of those same shots - after it was confirmed that Whedon did them - are being used as examples of Whedon ruining the movie. But nobody made those comments when the trailer dropped. Maybe it really isn't that noticeable unless you're examining screencaps in-depth and side-by-side?
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Jul 27, 2017 01:45
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The MSJ posted:The Han Solo movie thing is more than a reshoot. Lord and Miller was fired before they finished principal filming. Yeah it's going to be a huge piece of poo poo.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:48
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I remember Avatar, of all things, raised a similar conversation. People equated the Navi wanting to keep their ancestral home that's over the reserve of precious metal with someone denying someone's dying grandmother life giving medicine. It was cool because it was one of the first times I heard the term 'race traitor' thrown around unironically. In both cases a fictional society (us, taken to our logical conclusion) has ruined the planet and wants to ruin a different one to keep their system going, despite demonstrating that they've learned nothing. And it was weird that so many people took the side of the people that learned nothing EDIT: poo poo, this conversation moved fast. I was referring to the 'Superman wiped out his own race' thing. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 01:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:When the SDCC trailer (which was cut and color-graded by Whedon) was released, the thread consensus was "Justice League lookin' good." I don't think people are doing this? The news that Whedon was doing a large amount of reshoots came before anyone started doing the color grading comparison, and that is the bigger point of contention. I don't think the color grading/correction is ruining the movie at all, but I do prefer the former when directly comparing them. I highly doubt I will notice it in theater.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:53
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Do you guys really think Whedon is going around setting up all the lights himself before every shot or something? or that there is no cinematographer working on this film? Or that he is in charge of the frickin color grading?! I don't get it... the film is going to look fine, Whedon is there to punch up the characters and add 200% more quips
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Jul 27, 2017 02:06
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Wandle Cax posted:Do you guys really think Whedon is going around setting up all the lights himself before every shot or something? or that there is no cinematographer working on this film? Or that he is in charge of the frickin color grading?! I don't get it... the film is going to look fine, Whedon is there to punch up the characters and add 200% more quips To be fair, the only people who think this are the ones who watched the last two comic book films he directed, both of which looked not fine.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:07
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It’s not a Whedon shot, it’s the exact same shot, color timing can be changed almost on a whim now, are you people unaware of digital intermediates and the tools available Like this could have been done well before Zack went home. He could have gotten a note on the rough cut that said “dark enough that things get kind of indistinct, will go very badly for our 3D prints if left like this - maybe up the brightness/exposure a little?” That said, Snyder is a guy who loves heavy shadows and color in his lighting (because you see, Dear Reader, mood and tone is important to a scene; and generally if you’re telling a continuing story and it was in a dark place last time, you may just want your characters to be doused in darkness towards the beginning so that when they get to the point where they reach the glow of heaven, it means something) - it’s just as likely it was something the studio put across to Joss once Snyder was gone. [quote="“Serf”" post="“474759538”"] What is it with studios bringing in other directors to do big reshoots all of a sudden? I lost all interest in Han Solo because of this, and while I never had any interest in seeing Justice League bringing in Joss Whedon and throwing him $25 mill to reshoot tons of poo poo is pretty lol [/quote] “We want a strong, distinct voice to make our movie so that it can stand out from what’s playing in the theaters around it!” *Strong distinct voice ignores some commercial aspects of a movie to chase whatever attracted to the project* “Aw poo poo we didn’t want an art film.“ *hires screenwriter because if there’s anyone who’s scared of the studio, it’s going to be the guy with the occupation that is often looked at as the lowest part of the process since honest to god the general working process of a screenwriter is “get hired, write draft, do polish, get fired for no particular reason and replaced by some other dude, rinse, repeat six more times” - and his union will snap in half like hayseed in a closed fist if the lightest pressure is put on them* That’s generally how it goes. This is beginning to smack of the Gareth Edwards Rogue One situation, although in that case at least Gilroy and Edwards have something approaching similar visual styles, this is just Warners making a really, really dumb move since Whedon is about as visually minded as Ed Walker.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:10
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Snowman_McK posted:To be fair, the only people who think this are the ones who watched the last two comic book films he directed, both of which looked not fine. Yeah but this film presumably already has a distinct visual style from Snyder's work and what the studio is mandating etc, Whedon is not going to come in and tell everyone "OK guys scrap the established style and from now on make all the reshot scenes look flat and like a Tv show"
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Jul 27, 2017 02:11
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Wandle Cax posted:Yeah but this film presumably already has a distinct visual style from Snyder's work and what the studio is mandating etc, Whedon is not going to come in and tell everyone "OK guys scrap the established style and from now on make all the reshot scenes look flat and like a Tv show" Except that's what we're seeing. The Bruce and Alfred scene with the Penguin line looks really loving awful.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:14
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Serf posted:What is it with studios bringing in other directors to do big reshoots all of a sudden? I lost all interest in Han Solo because of this, and while I never had any interest in seeing Justice League bringing in Joss Whedon and throwing him $25 mill to reshoot tons of poo poo is pretty lol Both Han Solo and JL had external factors that caused the originals to bail, and other people are having to be brought in to finish the movie. Lord and Miller got kicked off of Han Solo because Lord and Miller's style is absolutely antithetical to Disney. They will never, ever, ever, ever let someone touch Star Wars who isn't going to treat the property like a sacred cow. This is also why Star Wars Detours officially doesn't exist, despite having been completed, and will likely never even see a Holiday Special-style bootleg release. This is also why the whole "adult animated shows crossing over with Star Wars" thing instantly stopped when Disney bought Lucasfilm. There was basically no way in hell we were going to get the Han Solo movie that was originally announced, and we should have seen this coming the second Lord and Miller were announced as directors. With JL, however, Snyder had a family tragedy that required him to bail on the movie to grieve, and Whedon's picking up to finish the movie off.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:16
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Maybe it'll be actually funny and not "I'm smarter than you haha this thing is hilarious because of philosophy you troglodytes."
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Jul 27, 2017 02:17
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CelticPredator posted:Maybe it'll be actually funny and not "I'm smarter than you haha this thing is hilarious because of philosophy you troglodytes." Are you talking about Han Solo? 
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Jul 27, 2017 02:19
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CelticPredator posted:Maybe it'll be actually funny and not "I'm smarter than you haha this thing is hilarious because of philosophy you troglodytes." i can't remember a single joke from the avengers movies so i'm not expecting much there wait i remember that 'cap giving fury money' bit but only because of internet people misreading it as cap suddenly coming down with old-timey racism
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Jul 27, 2017 02:26
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Brother Entropy posted:i can't remember a single joke from the avengers movies so i'm not expecting much there Explain
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Jul 27, 2017 02:32
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Brother Entropy posted:i can't remember a single joke from the avengers movies so i'm not expecting much there I understand that reference. Galaga guy. Puny god. Schwarma He's adopted Tony stark life model decoy Hulk sucker punching Thor
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Jul 27, 2017 02:34
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UmOk posted:Explain It's a callback to an earlier scene. 15 minutes earlier Cap tells Nick Fury, "At this point, nothing can surprise me." And Fury says "10 bucks says you're wrong." When the Hellicarrier flies out of the water, Cap just looks stunned and hands Fury a 10 dollar bill.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:35
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UmOk posted:Explain people didn't remember the set-up to that bit earlier where cap says something like 'i bet you ten dollars nothing you show me today will impress me' so they were stuck trying to grasp why he just suddenly hands fury some money and all they could reach was 'cap's casual racism made him think fury was The Help'
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Jul 27, 2017 02:36
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Puny God was so good and Loki's wheezy whimpering carried it very very far
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Jul 27, 2017 02:39
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Brother Entropy posted:people didn't remember the set-up to that bit earlier where cap says something like 'i bet you ten dollars nothing you show me today will impress me' so they were stuck trying to grasp why he just suddenly hands fury some money and all they could reach was 'cap's casual racism made him think fury was The Help' lmao that's classic
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Jul 27, 2017 02:40
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Brother Entropy posted:people didn't remember the set-up to that bit earlier where cap says something like 'i bet you ten dollars nothing you show me today will impress me' so they were stuck trying to grasp why he just suddenly hands fury some money and all they could reach was 'cap's casual racism made him think fury was The Help' Holy gently caress people are dumb. That gag was set up like 2 minutes before.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:40
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One of the biggest laughs in the theater when I saw Age of Ultron was from Black Widow sarcastically wondering how long Steve and Tony were going to be staring into each others' eyes.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:41
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UmOk posted:Holy gently caress people are dumb. That gag was set up like 2 minutes before. It was actually closer to 10 minutes, but people are still dumb.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:41
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Wandle Cax posted:Yeah but this film presumably already has a distinct visual style from Snyder's work and what the studio is mandating etc, Whedon is not going to come in and tell everyone "OK guys scrap the established style and from now on make all the reshot scenes look flat and like a Tv show" How do you think films get made? The inertia of film making doesn't apply to style and composition. Even if Whedon wanted to keep the style going, there's nothing in his filmography to suggest he actually has the talent to do so.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:42
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Calaveron posted:Puny God was so good and Loki's wheezy whimpering carried it very very far Nobody in my theater even heard it because they were all laughing at Hulk tossing Loki around.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:54
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Snowman_McK posted:How do you think films get made? The inertia of film making doesn't apply to style and composition. Even if Whedon wanted to keep the style going, there's nothing in his filmography to suggest he actually has the talent to do so. Well i'm just assuming there is a cinematographer and lighting guys etc. who have been working on the film who are continuing to work on the film with Whedon, who again is presumably not there to oversee a visual style change but to focus on characters and dialogue. I would have thought the crew are probably capable of upholding the visual style of the film for those parts which are being re-shot, but the scope of the re-shoots may be more extensive than i'm assuming, who knows
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Jul 27, 2017 02:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:When the SDCC trailer (which was cut and color-graded by Whedon) So you actually going to back this statement up, because this reeks of horseshit you made up the moment you wrote the words [quote="“Wandle Cax”" post="“474761930”"] Well i’m just assuming there is a cinematographer and lighting guys etc. who have been working on the film who are continuing to work on the film with Whedon, who again is presumably not there to oversee a visual style change but to focus on characters and dialogue. I would have thought the crew are probably capable of upholding the visual style of the film for those parts which are being re-shot, but the scope of the re-shoots may be more extensive than i’m assuming, who knows [/quote] A director still has to make a hundred decisions involving the scene before, during and after the filming on set on that very day, regardless of the situation that got him standing where he is. All of these things can have an effect on what shows up on camera, from camera angle to lens choice to how you want to light your subjects and the background and the foreground. The other people having worked with the guy you’re replacing can’t just turn to each other and ask “what would Zack do?” because they don’t know for sure (well, Larry Fong probably would, but he’s not on this show!), and so you become the arbiter of what is and what isn’t by default. Joss seems to have very little knowledge of focal length differences or reasons to use a zoom lens instead of a prime lens and other important visual aspects of the medium. I mean I hope to god if someone says “bounce light” to him he can process that. But he seems afraid to be exposed as underaware, maybe, which is why he seems to default to things that don’t look too out of place on 90s television, apparently the last time he learned blocking and lighting and lensing. He very much avoids stepping out of the bounds, to the point where people here have even noticed he almost crowds everything into the center of a shot - not because he needs to create a single point of clarity to wrap an untold amount of cuts around a la Fury Road, but because in the 4:3 box he is actually comfortable. In essence: if he’s reshooting a scene already in the movie, the lighting can be matched - you have documentation of all of that stuff for situations like reshoots because half the time they’re done on the run because poo poo is expensive - but if it’s a scene being added to clarify something, it has to come out of Joss’s brain wholesale. Which is why the sudden change is so obvious. The Cameo fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 03:38
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Whedon doesn't cut trailers or do color grading. That's not his job.
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Jul 27, 2017 03:41
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By all appearances, the joke of Justice League is that Lex Luthor won. He's successfully united his Lexvengers after designing the cute little logos and trailers for them.Al Borland Corp. posted:I understand that reference. Ready Player One's shaping up to be a monster.
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Jul 27, 2017 03:46
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:When the SDCC trailer (which was cut and color-graded by Whedon) was released, the thread consensus was "Justice League lookin' good." Pretty sure I was one of the first ones to bring up the Penguin joke scene with Alfred and Bruce looking a bit odd almost immediately after the trailer dropped. It stood out so much to me, visually, and I made several posts pointing it out across several threads. One example below, is the second post in the JL movie thread: teagone posted:There's always going to be a part of my brain trying to pick out where Whedon might have changed something. I was already doing it in the newest SDCC trailer. I'm finding that having this kind of predisposition is sort of annoying because I thought some shots in the new trailer looked kinda Whedon-esque. Like the scenes from this particular sequence, visually, looks very Whedon to me:
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Jul 27, 2017 04:23
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There's something going on with the composition of the ceiling light and showing off the curve of the room slanting to one side there.
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Jul 27, 2017 04:26
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:When the SDCC trailer (which was cut and color-graded by Whedon) was released, the thread consensus was "Justice League lookin' good." More posts from this same thread, made about an hour after the trailer dropped: teagone posted:And yeah, a lot of scenes in the trailer look gorgeous. I'm not particularly fond of that sequence with Alfred and Bruce talking in like a lounge though; the lighting looks really flat there. But everything else looked great. Drifter posted:I'd almost put money down that says that's a Whedon reshoot. teagone posted:It definitely stuck out, but I mentioned in the Justice League movie thread that my brain is already predisposed to picking out scenes I think Whedon might have done or changed, so it could just be that bias kicking in. I find that annoying.
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Jul 27, 2017 04:40
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Wandle Cax posted:Well i'm just assuming there is a cinematographer and lighting guys etc. who have been working on the film who are continuing to work on the film with Whedon, who again is presumably not there to oversee a visual style change but to focus on characters and dialogue. I would have thought the crew are probably capable of upholding the visual style of the film for those parts which are being re-shot, but the scope of the re-shoots may be more extensive than i'm assuming, who knows I will keep reposting this fact until people notice: Avengers had the same cinematographer as Godzilla and The Winter Soldier had the same cinematographer as Elysium. Having a good cinematographer doesn't help when the director has no visual sense at all. In terms of inertia, Whedon falling back to the way he usually shoots things is way more likely than the crew (who work under the director's direction, hence the name) upholding the style the last director had. teagone posted:More posts from this same thread, made about an hour after the trailer dropped: There's also tons of shots, mostly from action scenes, that look gorgeous, those stick in the mind more than bland shots of conversations. So even if Leon had been right, it wasn't the slam dunk he thought.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:04
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The cinematographer can only do so much with a given set, especially if the director they're working for is someone like Whedon or Kevin Smith whose immediate response to any questions of visual direction is to Not Direct.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:11
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I’m never going to get over the fact that Bruce Willis pulled Smith aside on like day one of Cop Out when he realized Smith didn’t know poo poo about lenses and focal lengths and was using some weird hand signal thing with his DP to avoid exposing his ignorance of this VERY VERY loving IMPORTANT knowledge. I think it’s because you can imagine Bruce pulling Smith in close in an alleyway somewhere just off set and saying “you think you’re getting away with it, but I’m onto you. ... You have no loving clue what different lenses do, do you.”
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Jul 27, 2017 05:18
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The Cameo posted:I’m never going to get over the fact that Bruce Willis pulled Smith aside on like day one of Cop Out when he realized Smith didn’t know poo poo about lenses and focal lengths and was using some weird hand signal thing with his DP to avoid exposing his ignorance of this VERY VERY loving IMPORTANT knowledge. Wait, didn't Kevin Smith direct like seven different movies before Cop Out?
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Jul 27, 2017 05:20
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Yes. But how visual are those movies?
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Jul 27, 2017 05:24
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Kevin Smith isn't really known for directing action sequences. I think he's said he'd never direct a Batman movie, even though he loves Batman, because he knows he'd gently caress it up.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:37
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