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soap solves all the problems of cross platform rpc in a way that is easy for developers. if you've ever had a problem with soap its because you were doing it wrong and probably using bad tools.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:22
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well yeah i mean that's the whole point. json doesn't need a specification cause it's javascript (they made one for it anyway cause the useless academics complained forever though)
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Apr 11, 2014 14:24
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who gives a poo poo about the underlying protocol if you arent just farting data into one library and burping it out another youre doing something wrong
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Apr 11, 2014 14:24
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thing about cross-platform rpc is that it has had such a horrible series of standards and implementations that soap almost looks decent, but the moment you look at what is *actually* needed to create cross-platform rpc it turns out that any skilled programmer could knock out something simpler, more pleasant and more general than soap in an afternoon the very statement "you are probably using bad tools" tells basically the entire story, not only is it complex enough to even *have* tools, the tools themselves are complex enough that there are degrees of freedom for them to be *bad* calling functions is not rocket science, the network aspect of it is bordering on irrelevant
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Apr 11, 2014 14:29
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:, but the moment you look at what is *actually* needed to create cross-platform rpc it turns out that any skilled programmer could knock out something simpler, more pleasant and more general than soap in an afternoon coffeetable fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Apr 11, 2014 |
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Apr 11, 2014 14:36
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:thing about cross-platform rpc is that it has had such a horrible series of standards and implementations that soap almost looks decent, but the moment you look at what is *actually* needed to create cross-platform rpc it turns out that any skilled programmer could knock out something simpler, more pleasant and more general than soap in an afternoon lol no. no one should be writing their own serialization tools in ttyool 2014. if you are then you're a loving moron and all you're doing is creating problems for no reason. your tools are bad because people like you (bad programmers) design and use them. you don't understand soap so you think its bad so you refuse to use good tools cause you think your bad tools aren't bad. calling functions across platforms isn't trivial and serialization isn't trivial, but they are both solved problems. it takes about 10 seconds to write a soap client for any service and its guaranteed to work, whereas your handrolled system will take who knows how long cause the only documentation is non-machine readable and probably incorrect. and gently caress if you don't even atleast use an existing serialization format. then its even worse. now if you use good tools you can make json almost usable, but its still not ideal. you're still gonna be writing the client by hand which is fuckin dumb.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:36
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i am not calling for anyone to write something new, i am just pointing out that soap is poo poo. replacing interoperation technology is almost invariably counterproductive. i'll do soap again if i get paid, and i suggest others should too, but please don't go on about the glory of that design-by-committee piece of poo poo
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Apr 11, 2014 14:41
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i am not calling for anyone to write something new, i am just pointing out that soap is poo poo. replacing interoperation technology is almost invariably counterproductive. so you could write a better protocol than SOAP in an afternoon, just you can't be bothered to?
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Apr 11, 2014 14:51
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i liked tefs COM for the web but he'd probably want to break it with dumb stuff like abusing content type or not requiring service definitions.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:54
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Shaggar posted:calling functions across platforms isn't trivial and serialization isn't trivial, quote:it takes about 10 seconds to write a soap client for any service and its guaranteed to work, I take it you've never actually talked to a SOAP service running on a different platform then.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:57
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coffeetable posted:so you could write a better protocol than SOAP in an afternoon, just you can't be bothered to? i don't think your reading comprehension is all there: i am saying just about any skilled programmer could (if we found a way to wipe soap from shaggars mind and put him to the task i am sure he would actually come up with something far more pragmatic), *but* i recognize that it *should* not be done since interoperation technologies like soap derive most of their value from ubiquity
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Apr 11, 2014 15:00
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Zombywuf posted:Serialisation's pretty trivial. Like, slightly harder than fizzbuzz trivial, but not much more than that. yes I have its very easy. u just point ur client build tool at the service and it magically creates the client. also serialization is only trivial because we have tools that do it for us.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:03
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qwerasdf posted:Granted thanks 4 this
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Apr 11, 2014 20:40
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i loving hate using characters as syntax it makes it impossible to look up what the gently caress it is like scala is just chock full of the drat things and lol if you ever run across an unfamiliar thing good luck googlin =??=%^&
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Apr 11, 2014 20:44
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tbf gently caress googles inability understand at least ascii as a user of an extra-latin alphabet, please understand that the problem extends beyond that
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Apr 11, 2014 21:00
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Bloody posted:who gives a poo poo about the underlying protocol if you arent just farting data into one library and burping it out another youre doing something wrong for real everyone on this page except shaggar needs to read this post right here and take it deep down into the depths of their hearts and realise how completely and utterly mind blowing it is for them
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Apr 11, 2014 21:12
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:extra-latin [ricky martin intesifies]
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Apr 11, 2014 21:13
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Shaggar posted:lol no. no one should be writing their own serialization tools in ttyool 2014. if you are then you're a loving moron and all you're doing is creating problems for no reason. lol ya, but web developers haven't even sussed out Unicode yet so you're spinning your wheels here buddy
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Apr 11, 2014 21:14
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Bloody posted:i loving hate using characters as syntax it makes it impossible to look up what the gently caress it is I only use non-printing characters in my code.
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Apr 11, 2014 21:27
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OBAMA BIN LIFTIN posted:lol ya, but web developers haven't even sussed out Unicode yet so you're spinning your wheels here buddy The ironing here is delicious.
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Apr 11, 2014 21:28
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Zombywuf posted:Serialisation's pretty trivial. Like, slightly harder than fizzbuzz trivial, but not much more than that. that's a nice do-not-hire flag you're flying
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Apr 11, 2014 21:36
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Bloody posted:i loving hate using characters as syntax it makes it impossible to look up what the gently caress it is perldoc perlvar, then control+f the thing you're looking for (or / if you're on a non scrub browser) e: obv this doesn't help you w/ scala, but ygmd
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Apr 11, 2014 21:42
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all i think about right now is this thing http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com
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Apr 11, 2014 21:42
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that video is bad because the guy is sticking up for mysql of all things
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Apr 11, 2014 21:45
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lolthe guy what made that video posted:“This is getting more than a few views, so I want to make a few things clear. This is *not* a knock on Mongo DB. I use and really like Mongo DB and would encourage people to check it out as a viable option for production use. In all seriousness, it’s reallly a terrific database. I was (obviously) inspired by the guy who did the iPhone v. Evo thing and this is really just an application of that form to databases. This skit is intentionally totally over the top (language and otherwise) so for all that’s good and right in the world, *do not* take this seriously
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Apr 11, 2014 21:49
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Btw, the point that the fanboy makes about ignoring durability for performance numbers was taken from a real post somewhere.”|
mysql is fine as long as you don't do anything important in it
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Apr 11, 2014 21:51
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JewKiller 3000 posted:that's a nice do-not-hire flag you're flying Maybe I've just done enough wire format munging that I find it trivial. Dealing with poo poo the vendor swears blind is totally XML honest, now that's complicated.
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Apr 11, 2014 22:09
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OBAMA BIN LIFTIN posted:for real everyone on this page except shaggar needs to read this post right here and take it deep down into the depths of their hearts and realise how completely and utterly mind blowing it is for them yeah, no, everyone including shaggar needs to loving differentiate between things being an unchangeable landscape you work with because you are getting paid and no one paying anyone to be an idealistic idiot wanting to reinvent rpc to be fair it takes a lot to bring autistic idiots to the trivial first step of working on what you are paid to work on, even if bad, without breaking apart from the strain, but the *next* step is to internalize that there exists a better way at the same time, because while you can't achieve it *now*, that is the path down which progress *eventually* lies
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Apr 11, 2014 22:13
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OBAMA BIN LIFTIN posted:all i think about right now is this thing mongodb is useful if you want to make a lovely project you never show more than a couple of close friends and then delete cause your dreamhost account came due and you spent your money on titanfall instead
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Apr 11, 2014 22:24
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:yeah, no, everyone including shaggar needs to loving differentiate between things being an unchangeable landscape you work with because you are getting paid and no one paying anyone to be an idealistic idiot wanting to reinvent rpc not sure what ur on about (not sure you know either tbh) but im betting u haven't actually made a soap web service the way its supposed to be made (by the computer)
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Apr 11, 2014 22:54
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lol if you even think the phrase "web service"
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Apr 11, 2014 23:03
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the internet is a disaster
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Apr 11, 2014 23:42
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yo can one of my haskell bruhs tell me about alternatives to IO like pipes and poo poo been out the game for a moment now everybody on 11 when im sitting on 10
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Apr 12, 2014 00:12
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FamDav posted:yo can one of my haskell bruhs tell me about alternatives to IO like pipes and poo poo what do you mean by "alternative to IO"? For concurrency? Parallelism? File access? Terminal interfacing? Pipes is about streams i.e. whenever you'd use lazy lists that are too long, i don't know if that's what you want. tbh the best way to improve your haskell is to get good with lenses, jesus gently caress those are good
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Apr 12, 2014 00:37
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hackbunny are you raymond chen? http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2014/04/11/10516280.aspx
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Apr 12, 2014 01:18
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you can really see the microsoft handcuffs in action there:quote:I remember one change that the runtime library folks made to MSVCRT.DLL that had to be backed out and revisited because they found an application that not only linked to MSVCRT.DLL instead of the runtime library the compiler intended, but also groveled into an internal array and manipulated private members.
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Apr 12, 2014 01:26
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c++ is so terrible for abi compatibilty what were c++ based systems like BeOS planning to do? would they just eventually implode becouse they could barely change any classes or add features to the compiler?
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Apr 12, 2014 01:59
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:yeah, no, everyone including shaggar needs to loving differentiate between things being an unchangeable landscape you work with because you are getting paid and no one paying anyone to be an idealistic idiot wanting to reinvent rpc Listening to a coworker fresh out of college try to push IntelliJ on an apathetic developer community of 500+ eclipse users makes me realize how insufferable I must have been just out of college too
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Apr 12, 2014 03:35
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exant posted:Listening to a coworker fresh out of college try to push IntelliJ on an apathetic developer community of 500+ eclipse users makes me realize how insufferable I must have been just out of college too Jk I didn't know poo poo out of college thanks Midwest state school
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Apr 12, 2014 03:38
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OBAMA BIN LIFTIN posted:not sure what ur on about (not sure you know either tbh) but im betting u haven't actually made a soap web service the way its supposed to be made (by the computer) u don't even make a soap web service really. you just decide one day u want an implementation of an interface to be available via rpc and then tell wcf/cxf to make it happen and it does.
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Apr 12, 2014 04:05
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