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A Strange Aeon posted:It's crazy to me someone would get an EV if they couldn't charge at home given the state of the infrastructure but encouraging that so many people have and make it work somehow. I have at least considered it for my next car, which at this point is a couple years from now (hopefully). It's pretty doable, the park I take a long walk in several nights a week has a charger and there's a charger at the movie theater across the street. Partly this is because home ownership has become a pretty unobtainable thing for me.
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Sep 19, 2023 07:21
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QuarkJets posted:In the 1920s I bet some dudes would say that the electric starter makes it too easy to accidentally start an automobile, and that the hand crank is safer Yeah nah hand cranks broke arms and fractured skulls and poo poo, and they sucked to operate (try to turn over an engine, even one rotation, in an ICE vehicle by putting a wrench on the crank bolt, it sucks rear end). Nobody was sad when hand cranks disappeared quickly in the end of the 20s. People bitching about having to press one button as soon as they flop into the drivers seat, which I do anyways as part of my process because I have to put away my phone in the center console and also plug my phone into the infotainment system to charge it/android auto is hilarious. A bigger reason why I'd want a button to start the car is to check if the key is in the car before allowing the driver to drive the car! People will absolutely steal your poo poo if you leave it "running" while you run and grab something real quick. And before you say "oh have the car poll for the keyfob periodically" that's extremely impractical because CANBUS is a very very low bit rate system, prioritizing absolute latency over transfer speed and utilizing very short 8 bit messages, and tossing in extra polling events from the smart key system to check for a good key is not a great thing, not to mention being unsafe because when the smart key system detects there's no key (it only checks when you press "Start"), it is immediately supposed to lock out motion of the car, which can be very dangerous on the road while moving. orange juche fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 07:30
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FlapYoJacks posted:I doubt it. It wasn't uncommon to break an arm or even lose a life hand cranking a motor. sounds like a skill issue
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Sep 19, 2023 08:06
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orange juche posted:A bigger reason why I'd want a button to start the car is to check if the key is in the car before allowing the driver to drive the car! People will absolutely steal your poo poo if you leave it "running" while you run and grab something real quick. The "on button" in this case can simply be the shifter, if there's no key present then the car won't shift out of park
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Sep 19, 2023 08:18
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QuarkJets posted:In the 1920s I bet some dudes would say that the electric starter makes it too easy to accidentally start an automobile, and that the hand crank is safer Hand cranking aint much fun esp when you have other cranking options
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Sep 19, 2023 08:23
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QuarkJets posted:The "on button" in this case can simply be the shifter, if there's no key present then the car won't shift out of park Cars have to be able to shift out of park without the key, in order to be towed. If your vehicle is disabled on the side of the road the tow company has to be able to put it in neutral to put it on the flatbed or on a dolly system, so the shift lever has to be able to operate without power or the vehicle being on. You may be able to do a lockout from Drive but that still leaves reverse as a "gear" that is passed through in order to get to Neutral. You can still steal a car in reverse, not at highway speed sure, but certainly quicker than you can run on foot, and quicker than a cop can respond to you calling frantically screaming at the 911 operator that your car was stolen because you got out to go grab a pumpkin spice latte from Starbucks because their drive-thru was out of order and that your kids are in the back. You can't get rid of the start button for these kind of reasons, because these kinds of things are insane liabilities that any decent car company is not going to open themselves up to, maybe Tesla because Elong Musk is a 10th level intelligence that mere mortals cannot possibly comprehend. E: some cars do have a gear lever that moves Park to a central setup and Drive is down while Neutral and Reverse are up and to the left. I guess this is one way around it, but a lot of car makers do not have this setup. orange juche fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 08:28
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orange juche posted:Cars have to be able to shift out of park without the key, in order to be towed. If your vehicle is disabled on the side of the road the tow company has to be able to put it in neutral to put it on the flatbed or on a dolly system, so the shift lever has to be able to operate without power or the vehicle being on. You may be able to do a lockout from Drive but that still leaves reverse as a "gear" that is passed through in order to get to Neutral. You can still steal a car in reverse, not at highway speed sure, but certainly quicker than you can run on foot, and quicker than a cop can respond to you calling frantically screaming at the 911 operator that your car was stolen because you got out to go grab a pumpkin spice latte from Starbucks because their drive-thru was out of order and that your kids are in the back. Most electric cars require 12V power to shift gears, there's not even a manual override anymore, not even a physical connection between the switch and the gearbox. Dead battery? Hook up the jump pack. This is the future, whether you like it or not, we're not going back to physical keys. And when the car wakes up when it senses its keys drawing near there's really no point in having a button. I did get stranded in a stupid security checkpoint on a Naval base for like an hour one time, because some lady's coworker warmed her Prius up for her, then took the keys. She drove into the checkpoint, turned the car off, and then couldn't restart it. E: like the ID.4 HAS a button, but you don't use it, you twist the little knobby knob into the gear you want, then when you park you just get out. The Bolt has a button you have to push, but it's stupid you have to push it. E2: the tow company's just gonna drag your poo poo up on a flatbed without regard to damage, same as they would with any other car, if you're not the one who called them, because they're loving assholes. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 10:48
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QuarkJets posted:In the 1920s I bet some dudes would say that the electric starter makes it too easy to accidentally start an automobile, and that the hand crank is safer Well yes, because electric starters were first sold as devices to allow frail women to drive on their own. Of course dudes would say it's too easy.
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Sep 19, 2023 11:33
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Lots of people live in apartments that don't have charging or won't allow it. When I was waiting for my charger instillation I was charging at whole foods or walgreens every week Judging by your average European country with far higher population densities and also way higher EV uptake i don’t think this is an insurmountable problem.
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Sep 19, 2023 11:35
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Stultus Maximus posted:Well yes, because electric starters were first sold as devices to allow frail women to drive on their own. Of course dudes would say it's too easy. Actually no. The electric self start was invented in 1911 as a result of the death in 1908 of Byron Carter who died as result of injuries sustained from a hand crnk kickback while trying to help a stranded motorist, death caused by gangrene from the injury he got on his jaw. Notably Carter was a founder of Cartercar that got absorbed into GM and also had what was likely to be the forerunner of CVT, the friction drive transmission. While the self start first was in the 1912 Cadillac and was advertised as making the car easier to start, it was recognised a crank start was dangerous as gently caress and it wasnt for frail old ladies..... who probably would have issues with driving 1910's cars anyway given the lack of any real assistance. Also of note the inventor of the self starter was one Charles Kettering who invented hundreds of other electircal and other car systems (some ofwhich are in EV's today) while one other of his patents was done in conjunction with one Thomas Midgley Jr that I'll leave for you to look up what that was and what it did to the enviroment
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Sep 19, 2023 11:56
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Stultus Maximus posted:Well yes, because electric starters were first sold as devices to allow frail women to drive on their own. Of course dudes would say it's too easy. This is a dumb/bad take hth.
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Sep 19, 2023 12:32
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orange juche posted:This is a dumb/bad take hth. yeah, EVs were the clean, no-fuss cars for women
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Sep 19, 2023 12:59
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orange juche posted:This is a dumb/bad take hth. I didn’t just pull this out of thin air https://www.ibtimes.com/did-cadillacs-battery-starter-kill-electric-car-100-years-ago-411358 quote:Shortly after the electric starter’s introduction, Cadillac began marketing cars to women.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:03
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I don’t think “you can’t get rid of the start button because then people will steal cars in reverse” is a super great argument. When you get out to get your Starbucks your car shuts off and locks, no one is stealing it. If you don’t want your kids to die of heat stroke during the three minutes, put the car in dog mode.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:04
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look, if the doors are unlocked, then the car should be “on” and ready to move. It’s that simple
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Sep 19, 2023 15:54
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Ok Comboomer posted:look, if the doors are unlocked, then the car should be “on” and ready to move. It’s that simple every mechanics dream
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Sep 19, 2023 16:56
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lol juicebox just rolled out yet another app that’s even worse than the previous app (which was already worse than the previous previous good app) and what are we even doing here. Charger still works but man I’m never buying anything from this company again.
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Sep 19, 2023 17:13
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Listen, they've got a whole bunch of managers who need to justify their existence by making major updates instead of just maintaining existing software.
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Sep 19, 2023 17:45
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FlapYoJacks posted:No proper thermal management for the battery. On hot days, good luck charging at speed. It also uses Chademo for the connector instead of CCS, which severely limits your charging options. if you dont need to fast charge and youre buying one used, those all can work together to make the Leaf a compelling option for a city-car or second car a 2017 Leaf for less than $10k is a great deal if you're only driving 20 miles to work
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Sep 19, 2023 19:33
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cruft posted:I recommend taking the LEAF off your list. It kinda sucks. I recommend adding the original Ioniq to the list. I’m really happy with mine - It’s no Model 3 but is a great Leaf alternative.
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Sep 19, 2023 20:01
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Stultus Maximus posted:I didn’t just pull this out of thin air That article has a veeeery flawed premise. EVs died at the early 20th century for the exact same reasons they didn't become a real thing again until the Model S - they were expensive, charging them was slow with zero infra, limited range and speed and heavy. Lead acid EVs suuuuuuucked. Car makers may have worked out that women were a growing market due to cars being easier to start, but hand cranking was missed by no one
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Sep 19, 2023 20:41
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Uh I'm hand cranking right now bud
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Sep 20, 2023 00:24
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QuarkJets posted:So then you should have to type in a code on a keypad to start the car, is that what you're saying Same mechanism that stops drunk emails circa 2004 stops drunk driving twenty years later, sure, why not.
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Sep 20, 2023 00:42
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THE BIG DOG DADDY posted:Uh I'm hand cranking right now bud I haven't hand cranked at costco since covid.
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Sep 20, 2023 01:11
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Lots of people cannot afford to move but need a car because America is an absolute shithole. More specifically, housing prices have gotten to where you have to be in the top 10-20% to afford any single-family home in much of the country, and only a minority of apartments have installed EV charging.
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Sep 20, 2023 01:52
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Cockmaster posted:More specifically, housing prices have gotten to where you have to be in the top 10-20% to afford any single-family home in much of the country, and only a minority of apartments have installed EV charging. Unless you have some really specific use case, if you can't afford a single family home or a multi-family property with charging, you probably shouldn't be looking at EVs.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:15
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You can just run a 75ft extension cord from your 220v dryer outlet
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Sep 20, 2023 02:31
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Honky Mao posted:You can just run a 75ft extension cord from your 220v dryer outlet Make sure you get a Y adapter for ultimate convenience
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Sep 20, 2023 02:48
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Dad let me borrow his car for the week. I really love/hate that LEAF.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:50
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I saw a Nissan LEAF pull into the middle of a four lane road at a green light and just park there because a fire truck was coming. Everybody else pulled over. There's no punchline, this happened like an hour ago.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:58
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QuarkJets posted:The "on button" in this case can simply be the shifter, if there's no key present then the car won't shift out of park when i get in my car i don't immediately want to drive a lot of the time. i get in and I turn it on, which starts the ac and the radio station with whatever i had it on last. i set up my navigation, maybe change the radio or switch to spotify or decide with my coworker or whomever where we're actually going to lunch today. and then i drive i guess theres different ways to achieve that functionality. i shift the car out of park and back into park? (seems more involved than pressing a button). i open CAR.APP on my phone to turn the car on beforehand? (swiping between apps and poo poo actually involves more work than just pressing one button, believe it or not). I touch the touchscreen or other capacitive surface? might as well press a button that explicitly brings the car into it's "on" or "off" state which which isnt touched by accident when im just getting stuff outta my car or whatever
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Sep 20, 2023 03:02
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Tiny Timbs posted:Make sure you get a Y adapter for ultimate convenience I just save my money and swap the plugs out every morning/night
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Sep 20, 2023 03:07
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OctaMurk posted:when i get in my car i don't immediately want to drive a lot of the time. i get in and I turn it on, which starts the ac and the radio station with whatever i had it on last. i set up my navigation, maybe change the radio or switch to spotify or decide with my coworker or whomever where we're actually going to lunch today. and then i drive You open the door you unlocked, and the car has booted up and is ready for you to mess with the entertainment system.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:09
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cruft posted:You open the door you unlocked, and the car has booted up and is ready for you to mess with the entertainment system. oh ok so i get in and then open the entertainment system in the touch-screen, instead of getting in and pressing the button which turns on the entertainment system (and all the other stuff) with the last settings it was running with? I'm just not seeing where my convenience is increased by removing the button
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Sep 20, 2023 03:13
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I don't mind the button but it should be more satisfying to press. A good thunk would be nice
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Sep 20, 2023 03:14
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Honky Mao posted:I don't mind the button but it should be more satisfying to press. A good thunk would be nice Maybe one of those clicky buttons like gaming keyboards these days??
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Sep 20, 2023 03:15
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Why do you want to press a button so much instead of not press a button if you want to press a button just keep a button in your pocket and press it all day long go nuts who cares it’s your button
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Sep 20, 2023 03:17
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I'm looking forward to the day we have an EV subforum so start button chat can have its own thread.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:19
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Honky Mao posted:I don't mind the button but it should be more satisfying to press. A good thunk would be nice The Bolt's regen lever is really satisfying to press, that'd be a good start/stopper. Or the ON/OFF/ON switches we used to turn on field excitation on turbine generators. I think those cost as much as a used EV tho. Three Olives posted:Unless you have some really specific use case, if you can't afford a single family home or a multi-family property with charging, you probably shouldn't be looking at EVs. A new EV maybe, but you're really showing your narrow world-view here. Lots of people at my work use cheap, used Leaves to commute and get groceries, a couple hours at the communal work chargers is all they need. Lots of ID.4 owners I've talked to in person live in apartments and DCFC their cars once a week at the free EA chargers and seem happy with it too.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:24
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OctaMurk posted:oh ok so i get in and then open the entertainment system in the touch-screen, instead of getting in and pressing the button which turns on the entertainment system (and all the other stuff) with the last settings it was running with? I'm just not seeing where my convenience is increased by removing the button And I'm not seeing where another page of debate about a frickin start button is good for the thread. But we can agree to disagree.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:38
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