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Colander Crotch posted:You literally just described the level 30 rogues quest. That's my point, yes. Even Baderon, the innkeeper in Limsa, comes up as an experienced pirate and cryptographer who can break most any code in Eorzea and can read sahagin.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:35
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I imagine they have to be competent, given that they're basically herding cats. Self interested, murderous cats. So Merlwyb needs a strong consolidation of power. Kann-E-Senna has to basically do a lot of stuff herself with the primary threats coming from without, having to manage and mitigate the whims of a bunch of temperamental supernatural beings. Nanamo, meanwhile, has had to work to gain agency and power because people have been controlling and influencing her since she was a child, and she's only recently gained the tools to stand against it on her own. From a political standpoint Kann-E is the most successful. Nanamo for the reasons I just explained, while Merlwyb is focusing on keeping the powderkeg of Limsa in a sort of homeostasis while not being accepting that her beastmen problems need a solution other than "gun" despite realizing she's kind of perpetuating the cycle herself. I don't blame her from an in-universe perspective, but the fact is that's one of the most potentially interesting things they could be exploring with the nation states while she's been relegated to the background is kind of why I'm not as wild on her character as other people.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:37
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Nodosaur posted:I imagine they have to be competent, given that they're basically herding cats. Self interested, murderous cats. So Merlwyb needs a strong consolidation of power. Also, some of the "competent" people are in fact pretty evil, and I imagine in terms of number of people killed, Merlwyb isn't far off from Lolorito.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:56
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Nessus posted:Yeah it's interesting how they all have idiosyncratic portfolios they have to deal with instead of just being the Queen of the Elf Town. Still, one of my favorite story moments so far was Merlwyb shutting Alphinaud down, hard: "My duty? My duty is to my people. My duty is to Limsa Lominsa, then the Alliance, then the rest of Eorzea. If you can't understand that, then you don't deserve a seat at this table." Alphinaud doesn't have an answer for that.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:59
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It's no coincidence that Merlwyb is marginalizing and genociding not just one, but two beast tribes. She's the most ruthless of the three leaders.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:07
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Merlwyb's big issue is that the way things are can't continue. Something's gotta give and take the first step, not just for the sake of Eorzea but Limsa's own future, and realistically speaking, it probably isn't going to be the disadvantaged tribes of beastmen being manipulated into supernatural fanaticism by a cabal of Organization XIII cosplayers from beyond time and space. She's focused too much inward and, as awesome as her telling Alphinaud off is, it's a symptom of that problem.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:07
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vOv posted:Huh, I forgot this line. I guess using glamour prisms to change the appearance of equipment is actually canonically a thing. Pretty much every gameplay mechanic exists in some canon form in Eorzea.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:13
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HenryEx posted:It's no coincidence that Merlwyb is marginalizing and genociding not just one, but two beast tribes. She's the most ruthless of the three leaders.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:14
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Cythereal posted:Still, one of my favorite story moments so far was Merlwyb shutting Alphinaud down, hard: "My duty? My duty is to my people. My duty is to Limsa Lominsa, then the Alliance, then the rest of Eorzea. If you can't understand that, then you don't deserve a seat at this table." That moment was pretty great, yeah.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:15
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Limsa’s got the fundamental problem that there’s just not enough goddamn room for everyone on La Noscea. It’s not a big island, and can’t physically support three large civilisations. It’s why going on a trip with Lominsan explorers seems like such a likely option - having somewhere else to put everyone would do a lot to relieve tensions with the beast tribes.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:31
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Nodosaur posted:Merlwyb's big issue is that the way things are can't continue. Something's gotta give and take the first step, not just for the sake of Eorzea but Limsa's own future, and realistically speaking, it probably isn't going to be the disadvantaged tribes of beastmen being manipulated into supernatural fanaticism by a cabal of Organization XIII cosplayers from beyond time and space. She's focused too much inward and, as awesome as her telling Alphinaud off is, it's a symptom of that problem. I think Merlwyb is making progress, and a lot of it, it's just slow going. She's the one who ordered the founding of the Arcanist's Guild and the teaching of arcanima to anyone who's interested, then turned that guild into a major civil service. She sanctioned the formal organization of the Rogue's Guild, too, turning a bunch of Robin Hood types into an organized internal police force. She's noted to be offering lots of incentives for settlers and former pirates to start homesteading, and ambient NPC chatter mentions that she's offering incentives for people to start taking up useful civilian trades and work to make Limsa Lominsa self-supporting. LL to me feels like a bustling frontier town on the edge of civilization - a Western, just with pirates instead of cowboys.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:41
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Cythereal posted:I don't think they've even met Aymeric yet. I've seen a fair amount of Ayemric, actually. He's pretty extensively involved in the last couple chapters of 2.X. And yes, I know Ayemric and Haurchefant's dialogue don't change if you're a dude but either way I don't care for how much it felt like they were both blatantly hitting on my character without any option to tell them my PC isn't interested. [/quote] Madness as I'm waiting on the NPC favor system to be implemented for everyone. Let me date him SOON.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:51
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Cythereal posted:And the award for lovely game design goes to... requiring fates for major unlock quests. Forty five minutes running around doing fates in hopes of forcing the one I need for the quest to spawn, and no dice.  Also gently caress that Coerthas FATE. 
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Mar 4, 2018 23:07
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Alder posted:
Right? He's offered to wine and dine me so often just let it happen squenix. Either gender goddamit.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:07
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Raaaaabanastre where the winds come sweeping down the plains. 
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Mar 4, 2018 23:11
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Cythereal posted:I think Merlwyb is making progress, and a lot of it, it's just slow going. She's the one who ordered the founding of the Arcanist's Guild and the teaching of arcanima to anyone who's interested, then turned that guild into a major civil service. She sanctioned the formal organization of the Rogue's Guild, too, turning a bunch of Robin Hood types into an organized internal police force. She's noted to be offering lots of incentives for settlers and former pirates to start homesteading, and ambient NPC chatter mentions that she's offering incentives for people to start taking up useful civilian trades and work to make Limsa Lominsa self-supporting. The thing is, though, most of those things are still focused on Limsa's benefit. And the homesteading thing contributes to the encroachment of beastmen territory. Your comparison is apt, but that doesn't change the fact she's effectively a colonizing force from the perspective of the kobolds and sahagin - it's not a "frontier" to the people who were already living there. I'm not saying Merlwyb needs to ship things out, but at the same time, I'll be disappointed if the story never gives her reason to sympathize with the Beastmen on SOMETHING.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:16
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To be fair to Merlwyb, we know she messed up with the Kobolds and she cops to that without a ton of fuss. Sure she holds her "I'm doing the best I can" attitude, because she's tough, but she doesn't excuse it away. The Sahagin on the other hand are completely the aggressors from what I remember. They're assholes and they regularly attack ships and what not. They're as bad as the pirates except if Merlwyb tries to come down hard on them, they summon Leviathan and the planet starts to die.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:31
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To be fair on the front with the beast men... the Sahagin didn't live their either, they are trying to set up a colony there because their last one got hosed over by the calamity and unfortunately went to the island with one of the more numerous beast tribes on it and the powder keg pirate town. The Kobolds meanwhile are either her fault or someone under her being a idiot's fault. Since they actually had a peace treaty with them that was holding and perfectly fine since the Kobolds only care about whats under the island not whats over it. Then the Limsan's started mining. Whether she ordered it or not she both realizes its bad that they did so and that it was untenable to try to keep it from happening eventually and so she gets to choose whether to let the kobolds have their revenge or kill them all so it won't be a issue anymore. Neither option is good and one might well be impossible. And the option of making peace is unlikely to work a second time and even if it did the terms would be the same and broken eventually again anyway.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:32
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I forgot that about the Sahagin. But at the same time, having to find somewhere to go isn't exactly unsympathetic either. and again, my issue with Merlwyb as a character isn't that she's letting this happen neccessarily, it's that all this isn't being capitalized on, and after that, most of the substance you're left with for her is just some cool lines and her shooting the Sahagin priest in the face. I just don't think enough's been done with her to care as much about her as everyone is. There's a lot of potential but it's mostly unrealized. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 4, 2018 |
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Mar 4, 2018 23:35
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Chaeden posted:To be fair on the front with the beast men... the Sahagin didn't live their either, they are trying to set up a colony there because their last one got hosed over by the calamity and unfortunately went to the island with one of the more numerous beast tribes on it and the powder keg pirate town. The Kobolds meanwhile are either her fault or someone under her being a idiot's fault. Since they actually had a peace treaty with them that was holding and perfectly fine since the Kobolds only care about whats under the island not whats over it. Then the Limsan's started mining. Whether she ordered it or not she both realizes its bad that they did so and that it was untenable to try to keep it from happening eventually and so she gets to choose whether to let the kobolds have their revenge or kill them all so it won't be a issue anymore. Neither option is good and one might well be impossible. And the option of making peace is unlikely to work a second time and even if it did the terms would be the same and broken eventually again anyway. She does comment that the settlers who started poo poo with the kobolds did so in defiance of her direct orders and have been punished accordingly (what exactly that means is not specified).
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Mar 4, 2018 23:46
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To be fair though, all the city state leaders have the WoL on speeddial. If they have problems that can be murdered, they're not really problems.
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Mar 4, 2018 23:57
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Pretty much every gameplay mechanic exists in some canon form in Eorzea. I was looking into why everyone doesn't just teleport everywhere and IIRC the explanation is that teleporting too much, or even at all, can be super dangerous because it's taxing on your anima. But since you're the WoL you have infinite anima so it's nbd.
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Mar 5, 2018 00:07
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Like that Sahagin area used to be a Limsa town but the Sahagin used leviathan to wipe the entire area clean so they could have it.
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Mar 5, 2018 00:15
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vOv posted:I was looking into why everyone doesn't just teleport everywhere and IIRC the explanation is that teleporting too much, or even at all, can be super dangerous because it's taxing on your anima. But since you're the WoL you have infinite anima so it's nbd.
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Mar 5, 2018 00:56
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Nessus posted:I thought the aetherites made it more feasible? Like people actually use the chunks laying around, but it's like Star Trek transporters, it's one thing to go from Horizon to Ul'dah and back once a month and another to bwip around constantly like the WOL does. Nah, even with Aetherytes, teleporting is still a huge drain on a person. Only adventurers can really do it, and even then they can only do it once or twice a day. I might be remembering wrong, but at one point in the Stormblood MSQ an NPC was floored that the WoL could teleport from one continent to another, which is why all the other NPCs mentioning they need to take a boat to meet you in Kugane.
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Mar 5, 2018 02:33
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Is the WoL just some rando adventurer chosen by Hydaelyn to save the world? Or are they actually a primal made to fight other primals? Since there's no other explanation for you being able to beat Ultima Weapon with three primals absorbed. I used to play The Secret World and one theory that was floated around was that the PC wasn't human anymore in any sense, just a body made and empowered by magic bees (not sure if this was actually made canon). Also I watched the Heavensward opening video and I might have spoiled myself... (but I'm also super-interested in how that scene plays out)
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Mar 5, 2018 03:17
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There's lots of theories bandied about but what the story's told us so far is that you're just an exceptional Spoken race with three layers of superpowers going on - Hydaelyn's blessing (the exact mechanics of which are really vague and unclear) - The Echo - A massive aether pool Everything else is sheer heroic willpower and skill
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Mar 5, 2018 03:23
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TheHeadSage posted:Nah, even with Aetherytes, teleporting is still a huge drain on a person. Only adventurers can really do it, and even then they can only do it once or twice a day. I might be remembering wrong, but at one point in the Stormblood MSQ an NPC was floored that the WoL could teleport from one continent to another, which is why all the other NPCs mentioning they need to take a boat to meet you in Kugane.
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Mar 5, 2018 03:25
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Schneider Heim posted:Is the WoL just some rando adventurer chosen by Hydaelyn to save the world? Or are they actually a primal made to fight other primals? Since there's no other explanation for you being able to beat Ultima Weapon with three primals absorbed. Theoretically it's just that you're loving hardcore + have a blessing. They could have a secret in line but by and large it's just that you're an uncommonly huge badass without or without the blessing.
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Mar 5, 2018 03:28
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Nessus posted:I guess it's more emergency transit or a way to move troops around than a major method of commerce, then. Yeah, you can't move goods via the Aetheryte either, that's why chocobo caravans are still a thing.
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Mar 5, 2018 03:29
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I figure part of it is those Crystals of Light you collect in ARR and carry around. There's got to be a shitload of aether in those things.
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Mar 5, 2018 03:31
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Even then, you kill one of the Ascians at around Level 15 with only minor assistance and only one Crystal.
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Mar 5, 2018 03:37
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I'll just continue to believe that the WoL is a Bhaalspawn. Edit; also I'm appreciating the DRK quest line is basically just "murdering assholes whenever you want is cool and good". You're goddamn right.
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Mar 5, 2018 03:43
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Blockhouse posted:There's lots of theories bandied about but what the story's told us so far is that you're just an exceptional Spoken race with three layers of superpowers going on Awesome, I'm a murderhobo powered by the world itself In the Heavensward intro, the WoL is the dude in the 1.0 cover art? Is that the canon appearance?
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Mar 5, 2018 03:49
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Schneider Heim posted:Is the WoL just some rando adventurer chosen by Hydaelyn to save the world? Or are they actually a primal made to fight other primals? Since there's no other explanation for you being able to beat Ultima Weapon with three primals absorbed. Yeeeaaahh I don't know why they put that scene in the HW intro movie, but rest assured the whole situation is really well done
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Mar 5, 2018 03:59
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The WoL being a primal makes sense at a glance, but kind of falls apart when you remember that Garleans (and Scions with their magic goggles) can see aether. You'd think one of the ones you run into would say something about that at some point, or Thancred would merk you while you were still a baby level 5 world-eater, or something. I'm quite fond of the idea that the Warrior of Light is the main character in an MMO, personally. Though I can't see them going for the Panzer Dragoon Saga twist unless they're sunsetting the game anyways.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:02
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I figure you just have the Echo and have been snowballing with good luck. You can see how Ysayle and Arenvald could've probably done similar great acts if situated better, and Minfilia probably could've too if she had been more decisive.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:05
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I'm waiting for us to eventually have to fight a primal version of ourselves. At this point, the WoL is really well known all around the world. They fight the Garleans and win nearly every time they do it. That kind of legendary power is eventually bound to appeal to someone with an excess of aether crystals and a lack of common sense.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:06
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DoubleNegative posted:I'm waiting for us to eventually have to fight a primal version of ourselves. At this point, the WoL is really well known all around the world. They fight the Garleans and win nearly every time they do it. That kind of legendary power is eventually bound to appeal to someone with an excess of aether crystals and a lack of common sense. I think the major thing there is that Primals are born from a need and at least at the moment the WoL is present, active and going places. It's sort of hard to need to summon the WoL when you can just put some tomestones under a cardboard box and you'll find them trapped there in the morning.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:15
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PROTIP: Do not do O7N on a Sunday night. I have never seen so many wipes to Dadaluma.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:21
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