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Yeah shim over bucket designs usually allow that if the valve spring is compressed, meaning if the valve is open, and if the cam lobe happens not to be the one holding it open, then you can get the shim in and out. It's a nicer design for maintenance cause you can often just replace the shims using an inexpensive special bucket holding tool. But for example if there's a backfire in the exhaust header, it could force the valve open, and if the cam lobe on that exhaust valve happened to be pointed away from it at the time, the shim could just rattle off the bucket, and then the next time the cam lobe comes around to push on the bucket, it'll hit the shim when it's in the wrong place and lock against some part of the head or try to push the valve too far and coilbind the valve spring or various other methods of damage. This is all news to me, I had never heard of that issue with ignition cut quickshifters and shim over bucket valves until z3n said it, but it makes perfect sense to me mechanically.
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Nov 29, 2015 04:03
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That makes sense, but then why would other shim over bucket type bikes not do the same thing? Is KTM's design somehow dimensionally more prone to this? It'd be an interesting thing to examine. You'd think they'd have picked it up in prototyping.
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Nov 29, 2015 05:30
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The solution was/is a fuel cut quick shifter and it's a non- issue because fuel cut is easy to do with existing TC setups and also it's a requirement if you don't want to blow out your cat. It's only a problem when randos start fitting quick shifters to make their bike go bang. 
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Nov 29, 2015 06:54
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Hey Z3n, is it possible for me to fit a quickshifter that also does downshifts? I found one that does both, but I'm not sure if my bike is capable. 2006 zx10r.
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Nov 29, 2015 06:57
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Anyone have a guide to replacing gsxr fork springs a mouthbreathing monkey could follow?
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Nov 29, 2015 07:01
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It'll be the same as any other guide to that type of spring. If they're USD forks you'll need the USD tools and just follow one of the generic guides, if they're conventional forks, it's pretty straight forward (Same as your old EX250 essentially).
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Nov 29, 2015 07:22
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Shimrod posted:Hey Z3n, is it possible for me to fit a quickshifter that also does downshifts? I found one that does both, but I'm not sure if my bike is capable. 2006 zx10r. AFAIK you can't do it if you don't have DBW?
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Nov 29, 2015 08:07
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Shimrod posted:Hey Z3n, is it possible for me to fit a quickshifter that also does downshifts? I found one that does both, but I'm not sure if my bike is capable. 2006 zx10r. Which one did you find? Anything is possible but blipper box systems are complex, and typically have custom requirements (because they have to blip the throttle somehow). On a non fly by wire bike, that's pretty complex. M42, this guys guide is pretty through: http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38739&nocache=1448780683034 Don't try it without that race tech tool he shows if you're doing it solo. If you have a friend, the hand compression tool can work but you need 4 hands to get the job done. It takes most of my weight bearing down on the hand tool to get the spring compressed enough to do the job, I bought the race tech tool and never looked back.
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Nov 29, 2015 08:08
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Z3n posted:Which one did you find? Anything is possible but blipper box systems are complex, and typically have custom requirements (because they have to blip the throttle somehow). On a non fly by wire bike, that's pretty complex. http://hmquickshifter.com.au/hm-quickshifter-gp-kawasaki-zx-10r.html
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Nov 29, 2015 08:51
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Is there any resource which describes the tradeoffs in brake pad materials? I'd like to get the best brakes possible that also do well in the rain, but the words composite, sintered, etc mean nothing to me. I tried to find a guide through Google but everything was someone trying to sell their pads, not critically review them.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:07
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I'm gonna say there's a 95% chance this doesn't do dual direction on your bike. You can contact them to find out, but without a fly by wire setup you need a motor to drive the throttle cable so it can blip for you. EkardNT posted:Is there any resource which describes the tradeoffs in brake pad materials? I'd like to get the best brakes possible that also do well in the rain, but the words composite, sintered, etc mean nothing to me. I tried to find a guide through Google but everything was someone trying to sell their pads, not critically review them. Organic is for all weather riding with a focus on long wearing brakes and consistent performance from cold - usually fitted on cruisers, generally not very powerful/responsive and can be easily glazed by aggressive braking. HH/Sintered pads use metallic compounds to boost braking force. These are your typical street pads for a sportbike. They tend to wear out pads and rotors a little faster, but you'll still see good life out of them. Then there's race pads, which tend to be very aggressive, wear quickly, and stop like you're hitting a wall. Each pad company has their own setup/compound/magic set of numbers on these. OEM pads vary widely but tend to be a compound that allows for all around use but drops off as they wear, so a rider gets consistent, good braking wet or dry but after 5-10k of use the pads will be toast, even if they have material left. I personally don't run anything lower than HH/Sintered pads on my bikes. The organics just don't cut it unless you're a really sedate rider, IMO.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:29
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EkardNT posted:Is there any resource which describes the tradeoffs in brake pad materials? I'd like to get the best brakes possible that also do well in the rain, but the words composite, sintered, etc mean nothing to me. I tried to find a guide through Google but everything was someone trying to sell their pads, not critically review them. "best brakes possible" is a massively subjective thing. Broadly pads are made one of two ways, sintered or organic. Organic are normally OE on most non-sports bikes. They're made of wood (well not really, but cellulose fibres make up a fair chunk of them), and tend to have a softer feel. Their advantages are they feel pretty consistent in wet or dry conditions, wear fairly consistently, and don't need much in the way of breaking in. Disadvantages are they wear quickly, dump a lot of dust on the wheels, and generally are unhappy with very spirited riding. Sintered pads are ceramic with copper bonded into them. Advantages are they generally give better outright power and feel at the lever and wear slowly. Disadvantages are they feel different in the wet (you generally have to wait for the wheel to rotate at least once, to squeegee water off the disk, before they give full power), need more careful breaking in (and failing to do so can glaze them which drastically reduces their power) and they wear the disk quickly. However for the majority of riders in the majority of conditions those differences will be pretty marginal. I personally prefer sintered pads just because that's what I'm used to but I've no problem at all with the OE Ferodo organics on the Monster - when they wear out I'll probably keep the same ones on there because The rest of the system gives pretty good feel so i don't really need that extra edge the EBC HH that I normally use gives me. The point is that pads are the cherry on top of the braking system - they're not going to turn a set of Nissin two-potters with rubber hoses mounted on ten-year-old RWU forks on the original oil into physics-defying apex-nailing machines.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:57
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EkardNT posted:Is there any resource which describes the tradeoffs in brake pad materials? I'd like to get the best brakes possible that also do well in the rain, but the words composite, sintered, etc mean nothing to me. I tried to find a guide through Google but everything was someone trying to sell their pads, not critically review them. I thought sintered would be better than organic in the wet but I found them to be the same, perhaps less. Then on my next set of organics, the performance was worse still. I think the pad material has only so much to do with it, the disk condition can be as important or more. My old, soon to be replaced, disks, are very grooved and I find the pads take time scrubbing the water off such a rough surface. This is the biggest problem with my brake performance, not pad material. When the new disks are back on, new organic pads go on as well. Sintered are for racers and "racers".
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Nov 29, 2015 18:58
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goddamnedtwisto posted:"best brakes possible" is a massively subjective thing. Broadly pads are made one of two ways, sintered or organic. Sticking sintered pads in the hyosung made it feel like the fork caps were going to shoot off and hit me in the face
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Nov 29, 2015 19:02
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Ola posted:I thought sintered would be better than organic in the wet but I found them to be the same, perhaps less. Then on my next set of organics, the performance was worse still. I think the pad material has only so much to do with it, the disk condition can be as important or more. My old, soon to be replaced, disks, are very grooved and I find the pads take time scrubbing the water off such a rough surface. This is the biggest problem with my brake performance, not pad material. Shouldn't make that much difference as long as the disk is still in-spec (not warped or rippled, no tangential or overly-deep scoring, etc). The pads wear away to match the grooves.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:03
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The pads wear away to match the grooves. That's what I thought at first, but I think it's wrong. They should perform even better the more grooved the disk is, as it gets more surface area to grab. But it doesn't, and I think the reason is that the pad doesn't quite hit the same spot every time. The pad rides loose in its track so it doesn't take much for it to move around a little bit and squeeze a different, partial profile. A flat pad against a flat disk is the best.
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Nov 29, 2015 20:00
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EkardNT posted:Is there any resource which describes the tradeoffs in brake pad materials? I'd like to get the best brakes possible that also do well in the rain, but the words composite, sintered, etc mean nothing to me. I tried to find a guide through Google but everything was someone trying to sell their pads, not critically review them. FWIW I run HH Sintered pads and they grab well enough in the rain. More than you would want to, anyway.
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Nov 30, 2015 01:02
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Slavvy posted:That makes sense, but then why would other shim over bucket type bikes not do the same thing? Is KTM's design somehow dimensionally more prone to this? It'd be an interesting thing to examine. You'd think they'd have picked it up in prototyping.
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Nov 30, 2015 05:21
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Yeah shim over bucket is super rare in modern high performance engines.
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Nov 30, 2015 05:43
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Z3n posted:I personally don't run anything lower than HH/Sintered pads on my bikes. The organics just don't cut it unless you're a really sedate rider, IMO.
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Nov 30, 2015 06:25
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What's the riding skills book you guys always recommend: Total Control or Proficient Motorcycling?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:55
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Deeters posted:What's the riding skills book you guys always recommend: Total Control or Proficient Motorcycling? Proficienct Motorcycling is the most often recommended, it's really good.
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Dec 1, 2015 00:09
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Deeters posted:What's the riding skills book you guys always recommend: Total Control or Proficient Motorcycling? Proficient motorcycle is more about the larger scope and scale of motorcycling. Total Control is more about riding quickly, safely. I'd also recommend Sport Riding Techniques. I usually recommend TC and SRT because Proficient Motorcycling can be a little basic if you've been doing your research.
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Dec 1, 2015 01:09
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What about Twist of the Wrist?
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Dec 1, 2015 01:11
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Z3n posted:Proficient motorcycle is more about the larger scope and scale of motorcycling. Total Control is more about riding quickly, safely. I'd also recommend Sport Riding Techniques. I usually recommend TC and SRT because Proficient Motorcycling can be a little basic if you've been doing your research. Would you consider Total Control better for advanced riding? I've been riding for 7 years and never read any books on the subject. E: and I want to break into racing
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Dec 1, 2015 01:12
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Z3n posted:Proficient motorcycle is more about the larger scope and scale of motorcycling. Total Control is more about riding quickly, safely. I'd also recommend Sport Riding Techniques. I usually recommend TC and SRT because Proficient Motorcycling can be a little basic if you've been doing your research. Thanks, I was looking for more than the basics, but not Twist of the Wrist track oriented. Any ideas about the difference in editions of TC? One of the Amazon reviews on the second edition says that a bunch of the diagrams have been removed (which is one of just two bad reviews).
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Dec 1, 2015 02:16
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Partial Octopus posted:What about Twist of the Wrist? The first TOTW is about the mentality of racecraft. TOTW2 is the one that actually provides guidance on how to ride faster. But it's strongly racing focused, and needs to be "translated" for street riding where the goal isn't always to get through a corner as quickly as possible. For example, the TOTW2 approach to decreasing radius corners is very high risk on the street because it's designed to get you to that limit of performance, and what makes sense from a raw speed perspective doesn't translate 100% to getting through a corner safely. Tactical Lesbian posted:Would you consider Total Control better for advanced riding? I've been riding for 7 years and never read any books on the subject. If you've never read any books, try Sport Riding Techniques, then Total Control, then TOTW2, IMO. You can skip straight to TOTW2, but the thing about TOTW2 is that it tends towards the kind of "ideal" for speed around a track, which isn't always what you want when you're doing something that's not pure time trial type personal improvement. (For example, the line to get around a guy and block pass him is likely to be way the gently caress off what TOTW2 would have you do, and trying to use the TOTW2 line with another rider doing the same is likely to end in grief). Deeters posted:Thanks, I was looking for more than the basics, but not Twist of the Wrist track oriented. Any ideas about the difference in editions of TC? One of the Amazon reviews on the second edition says that a bunch of the diagrams have been removed (which is one of just two bad reviews). Total Control and Sport Riding Techniques is what you're looking for. I'm not sure about changes in the second edition of TOWT2, haven't bought that one. One of the thing that's applies broadly here, and folks should be aware of, is that riding techniques aren't absolutes. You want to have the largest possible number of techniques available that you can to prepare you for the wide variety of situations you might experience while riding a bike. This holds true for street, offroad, track, whatever. Sometimes I ride my streetbikes like dirtbikes, sometimes I ride them like I'm on the track, sometimes I take a more street focused line, it depends entirely on the situation, context, what I'm trying to do, avoiding, my personal level of focus, etc. You'll build a skillset around one set of riding advice to start with, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that one person has all the answers. There's no real "wrong" advice from any of the good resources out there (ie, Keith Code, Nick Ienatch, Lee Parks, Reg Pridmore, etc). There's stuff that's more contextually appropriate for a given situation, but always remember you're trying to select the most appropriate selecting the right technique based on your judgment of the situation. Which reminds me, Reg Pridmore's book is good too, primarily because he teaches "off ideal lines", ie, the stuff you use commonly on the street, for passing, etc. My favorite pass (passing on the inside of the other rider on the exit of the corner) is straight out of Pridmore's techniques. It's a very safe pass that no one else really mentions/talks about : http://www.amazon.com/Smooth-Riding-Pridmore-Way-Reg/dp/1884313469
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Dec 1, 2015 02:37
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Is SRT out of print or something? It's selling for $50+ on Amazon, but I found a pdf of it with basically 0 effort.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:44
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Deeters posted:Is SRT out of print or something? It's selling for $50+ on Amazon, but I found a pdf of it with basically 0 effort. Ahh, looks like it may be. Pity.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:47
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A MIRACLE posted:idk what the big deal is about your bike getting rained on Its not a big deal I just dont want to have to wash all the poo poo off it every time I ride... 
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Dec 1, 2015 03:51
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Z3n posted:Proficient motorcycle is more about the larger scope and scale of motorcycling. Total Control is more about riding quickly, safely. I'd also recommend Sport Riding Techniques. I usually recommend TC and SRT because Proficient Motorcycling can be a little basic if you've been doing your research. I'm working through Proficient Motorcycling right now and have found the diagrams for motorcycle dynamics to be incredibly valuable. It is very focused on street survivability and thoughtful riding. I've only been riding for a couple years, though. I'll probably pass the book on to my other newish rider friends.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:41
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The dirty secret of motorcycles is that no one really understands why 2 wheels vehicles work. People have theories about individual factors, but the relative scope and scale of those factors against each other is pretty much black magic. I don't even get into those discussions anymore because of that.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:55
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Z3n posted:The dirty secret of motorcycles is that no one really understands why 2 wheels vehicles work. People have theories about individual factors, but the relative scope and scale of those factors against each other is pretty much black magic. It's the same with helicopters ground school might tell you otherwise but it's black magic
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Dec 1, 2015 20:09
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Z3n posted:The dirty secret of motorcycles is that no one really understands why 2 wheels vehicles work. People have theories about individual factors, but the relative scope and scale of those factors against each other is pretty much black magic. Two wheeled conveyance is very well understood by science, you're just wrong. 
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Dec 1, 2015 20:10
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If it's that hard to figure out angular momentum, then where did all these Segway tour companies come from?
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Dec 1, 2015 20:17
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Tactical Lesbian posted:It's the same with helicopters It's not black magic, it's just physics. The Earth, being beautiful, repels the helicopter, which is ugly. Physics 101
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Dec 1, 2015 20:30
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Here's a Japanese guy able to program a PID controller into doing exactly what a cyclist does, which is more than a motorcyclist does (and even more than some do given that he's able to put his feet down), four years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT3vfSQePcs
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Dec 1, 2015 20:46
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according to all known laws of aerodynamics, a bee should not be able to fl- e/ The last legit thing I saw in this vein was a piece about how cycle stability isn't a fully solved science, illustrated with a paper where some guys had constructed a skate bike that was stable despite having its centre of mass forward of the steering head. We know very well how to optimise a bike that's like the bikes we've already got, but don't have a complete set of rules that would tell us how to build crazy off the wall geometries that would still be stable. Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Dec 1, 2015 |
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Dec 1, 2015 23:32
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Z3n posted:The dirty secret of motorcycles is that no one really understands why 2 wheels vehicles work. People have theories about individual factors, but the relative scope and scale of those factors against each other is pretty much black magic. I think the overall principles are understood and not that complicated but the crazy poo poo bikes do when you're on the limit and you factor in tyres and body posture and suspension behaviour and all that other poo poo is like...space shuttle complicated.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:40
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Renaissance Robot posted:according to all known laws of aerodynamics, a bee should not be able to fl- Basically, this. Same with the bike that is designed to have no trail, the one that has no gyroscopic force, etc. All of the things that people commonly say that are the "major force component that keeps the bike upright and moving forward" have been physically proven to not be a major factor in the stability of a 2 wheeled bike Ola posted:Two wheeled conveyance is very well understood by science, you're just wrong. t 
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Dec 2, 2015 06:47
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