Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Elf can get really scary for melee guys, especially if you don't know what to expect and don't have a plan for how to deal with it. Vaults is probably safer through 4. Then you could do elf, crypt (can also get scary for the unprepared) or depths. Elf is generally the easiest of those as long as things don't go pear-shaped, but that's very possible if you let yourself get surrounded by nasty elves. Whole floor vaults in depths can throw everything you'll find on elf: 3 and more at you, though.

Other, unrelated advice: get more dodging. A minor investment (12-13) will get you a significant increase in effective hit points. Just a few EV can make a big difference. Next, get a better ranged attack. Attack wands work, but you should have something more reliable. Evo or throwing are ideal if you have the tools (rods or javelins), if not I would go for an arbalest on that character, but I can see how some players might thing it's too much investment. Third, ID your wand of hasting, digging and any other wand you want to use to attack with. You have little use for the ID scrolls and that will let you make much better use of those wands. Finally, don't touch that obsidian axe!

Edit: for the future, use acquirement scrolls on "staves" on Trog characters. It's guaranteed to give you a rod. That will give you a great ranged option that scales with the best utility skill in the game.

Thanks for the detailed advice! Also, I was actually going to use that axe until you warned me and I read about it... Yikes

# ? Nov 11, 2015 01:22

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 7, 2024 07:18

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

You've probably already moved on but I find that murderholing is very effective for melee guys on Elf3. Best use is obviously a formicid, but anyone with a wand of disintegration can do it. Generally you make a one square line of sight little chamber by doing three diagonals (x is dug out space + is rock wall):

code:

+++
@+x
+x+
+++

This breaks line of sight so the annihilators, conjurers, summoners, etc. aren't plinking you from far away and as an axe-bro you can carve them up a few turns after they turn up since they're so squishy (if you're unsure, generally pop might/heroism for blademasters and sorcerers who can cast hellfire). If no one shows up stick your head out and shout, throw something, or read a scroll of noise. This works great, but has some caveats. One is you might get the elven level that's only one block thick walls, then you're SOL and might as well use door-dancing/other methods. Second is that you have to be tough enough to take them all out, even if it's one at a time. Sometimes blademasters can wreak all kinds of havoc if you're low AC/EV; elves are so squishy high damage is good. Lastly, some of those spell guys are going to get one or two bolts off, so it's not a perfect solution. High EV/SH helps, as does r+++'s.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 01:38

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

Blademasters and master archers don't see invis like the high tier mages in elf. Excellent use of a potion or wand.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 01:41

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

FR: Change killer bee zombies to zombees

EDIT-Addendum, also add a harmless cute fuzzy bee (like butterflies) so there can be more kinds of zombees

Scaramouche fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Nov 11, 2015

# ? Nov 11, 2015 02:26

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

code:

Found the +18 shield of the gong {rElec rN+ MR+ EV-5}!

# ? Nov 11, 2015 02:57

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

Well there's my traditional win with a Ds for the tourney.

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17.0-15-g6d90897 (webtiles) character file.

14248566 resistentialism the Demonic Ballista (level 27, 240/240 HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Assassin on Nov 8, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Okawaru.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Nov 11, 2015!
             
             The game lasted 20:14:37 (111780 turns).

resistentialism the Demonic Ballista (DsAs)       Turns: 111780, Time: 20:14:37

Health: 240/240    AC: 53    Str: 13    XL:     27
Magic:  46/46      EV: 34    Int: 27    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   19053      SH: 10    Dex: 31    Spells: 13 memorised, 6 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +     a - +8 autumn katana {slice, Clar}
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     z - +9 pearl dragon armour
rNeg   + + +     SustAt   .     g - +3 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  .         Gourm    .     B - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         Spirit   +     A - +2 cloak of Cehun {MR- Regen+ Int+4 Dex+4}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     V - +2 pair of fencer's gloves {LBl+4 SBl+4 EV+3 Dex+6}
rMut   +         Stasis   .     (boots unavailable)
MR     +++..                    h - amulet "Ymnan" {rMut +Fly rF+ Stlth+}
Stlth  +++.......               m - ring "Hepillo" {rF+ MR+ AC+5 Int+3 Dex+2}
                                f - ring "Wetyddeu" {rN+ MR+ Slay+5}

@: deflect missiles, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly
stealthy
A: hooves 3, thin metallic scales 3, cold resistance 1, negative energy
resistance 1, spiny 3, 50% torment resistance, magic shield, magic regeneration,
magic link, black mark
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Okawaru.
Okawaru was exalted by your worship.
You were hungry.

You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 93 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 22 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 4 times.
You visited 2 ziggurats, and saw 17 of their levels (deepest: 11).
You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Bailey, Ice Cave, Volcano and Wizlab.

You collected 21056 gold pieces.
You spent 2003 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +8 autumn katana (weapon) {slice, Clar}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It protects you against confusion.
 b - a +9 quick blade of freezing
 R - a +9 blowgun
Missiles
 j - 15 javelins of returning (quivered)
 o - 18 steel javelins
 K - 38 curare-tipped needles
 S - 2 needles of paralysis
 W - 12 needles of sleeping
 X - 21 silver javelins
 Y - 24 javelins of penetration
 Z - 14 needles of frenzy

Killed every unique demon lord with sleeping needles. Thanks for the hot tip whoever came up with that.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 03:01

chukamok: Jul 23, 2010

Anyone have any team openings? Dee Ehm seems to be MIA.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 03:41

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Internet Kraken posted:

I mean I've tried tons of different builds in extended, and statue form feels like easy mode to me. It makes everything way easier. I'm not sure what you're doing to make you take more damage in it cause Ive never felt that way when using it. The only times I've come close to dieing with statue form in extended is when I play like an idiot because I'm overconfident.

I have no desire to get into a poo poo-slinging contest about statue form, but I will clarify why I take more damage when I use it. First, you fight many more enemies, so you give the RNG more chances to gently caress you with bad rolls. Second, you can't escape fights and if you try to re-position during a fight, you take damage. LoS management is crucial in extended and statue form makes that harder. Third, it actually drops your damage output significantly on most characters. Even transmuters will do a lot more damage with blade hands or dragon form and won't suffer the slow effect while doing it. Other characters have free access to ranged attacks and consumables without losing turns due to slow. This is a big deal for me, even in basically the same fights, I take more damage as a statue because it takes that much more time to end the fight. Obviously this partly comes down to play style. I strongly favor offense over defense and never play without a strong ranged attack, so statue form is very situational for most of my characters.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 03:53

busb: Mar 19, 2009; Thorgie

I find statue form owns for extended. Rockman every time.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 04:46

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Not My Leg posted:

Just learned something new. Apparently equipping Stasis will clear the 'slow' status, but also give you yellow contamination. Really glad I had already IDed cancellation before I equip IDed Stasis after berserking.

If I recall correctly it also helpfully emits an ear-piercing screech at the same time.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:46

Dr. Despair: Nov 4, 2009; 39 perfect posts with each roll.

Man, after 112 dead ogres (and one survivor) I'm starting to get tired of having no defenses at the start. Ogres, argh.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:27

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

code:

You kill Fannar!
Okawaru is honoured by your kill.
Something appears at your feet!
Okawaru grants you a gift!
Something appears at your feet!
Okawaru grants you a gift!

Wow, Okawaru. It's like it's my birthday, twice!

Edit: The game's given me 6 hydras and I'm only on Lair:2 so far :catstare:

Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Nov 11, 2015

# ? Nov 11, 2015 08:36

Tony Montana: Aug 6, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

Playing again and I'm having fun.

The Wiki still seems to be the most complete and useable information. I has notifications that some stuff might be out of date, but most of the conceptual stuff particularly for new players is still very useful and helpful. I don't get why the OP hates on it so bad.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:15

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

It used to be terribly out of date with information that was blatantly untrue. The learndb from IRC used to have an entry for badwiki filled with relevant stuff but they purged it along with the other bad<foo> ones a couple years back. Instead we are left with choice quotes like

badwiki gham guide

quote:

THE ULTYMATE RESISTANCES OF THE GHOUL COMBINED WITH POWYRFUL CLAW ATTACKS + RANGED SUPERIORITY FROM OF THE ARKANE MARKSPERSON MAKES THE GHAM THE POWER CLASS OF 0.8, 0.10, AND 0.11. GO FOR SPLINT MAIL FOR MAXIMUM PROTECTION + FLEXIBILITY // - THIS GUIDE BY SLAUGHTRO POWER CRAWLMASTER X

sif muna reasons[4]

quote:

"If by the time you enter Vaults 5 you still have neither Tornado nor Fire Storm online, then most likely you have lost the game."

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:23

Tony Montana: Aug 6, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

It's still the best place to read stuff like the basics of Identification.

Sure, some of the stuff probably isn't for high level players but if you're coming back after a long break or trying to get started I don't think it's sound advice to tell people not to use it and then only give them the forums with random, mostly useless threads instead.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:30

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Note that it "used" to be like that. The wiki has made quite an effort to be a better place for information and apart from the typical "any information written down is out of date" that follows any sort of active development (which seems to be getting worse; I think there are fewer contributors nowadays) it has succeeded admirably.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:35

Tony Montana: Aug 6, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

Yeah, well the OP is quite good otherwise and not that old. I suggest updating it with significantly less Wiki-hate and probably suggesting new players go straight there and read entries such as the summaries of the branches (so you have some idea where you're going) and a bunch of other useful stuff. Who wants to join an IRC channel as a complete noobie and ask to have everything explained to them?

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:43

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

The wiki is worlds better now than when I started. I think part of the reason it has a bad reputation is that most of the people who feel confident giving advice started playing crawl when the wiki was a major source of death and suffering for new players. By now we know almost everything about the game anyway and the learnDB is actually legible for us when we need to look up something specific. Some people are even such ridiculous nerds that they feel comfortable using the IRC bots. I haven't been on the wiki in forever, but after quickly looking over some articles that previously gave bad advice (e.g. the GDR page) it looks pretty solid.

Another issue with the wiki that is at least partly still true is that it adheres to the release version rather than trunk. While not unreasonable, most long time players play trunk, so this is a frustrating policy. It also used to be that to edit it you had to have an account, so it wasn't easy for people to casually correct bad information.

Edit:

Tony Montana posted:

Yeah, well the OP is quite good otherwise and not that old. I suggest updating it with significantly less Wiki-hate and probably suggesting new players go straight there and read entries such as the summaries of the branches (so you have some idea where you're going) and a bunch of other useful stuff. Who wants to join an IRC channel as a complete noobie and ask to have everything explained to them?

I agree with this. I used the wiki when I was learning the game even though I knew it was full of wrong information and had lost a good character as a result of misinformation there just because it was and still is the only remotely approachable format if you don't already know the game inside out.

Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Nov 11, 2015

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:44

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

I use the wiki all the time to check out race and god info and to compare weapon stats since my memory is poo poo and I can not ever remember those numbers. Also the spell list page is very useful for planning ahead.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 14:02

Jyppe: Jun 13, 2007; For the Fireman!

Mr. Despair posted:

Man, after 112 dead ogres (and one survivor) I'm starting to get tired of having no defenses at the start. Ogres, argh.

Pick up a shield + use AC rings and weapon of protection if you can.

It's not always fun with AC either. My casting Gargoyle with 32 AC got hit for 30 damage by a Snapping turtle :|

# ? Nov 11, 2015 15:30

Superterranean: May 3, 2005; after we lit this one, nothing was ever the same

I am currently exploring a floor with a vault that has 4 separate elemental-themed locked rooms on it - I've found the death one and the lightning one, and it is so cool!! I just wanted to share that this is a great vault.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 15:56

ZeeToo: Feb 20, 2008; I'm a kitty!

I'll edit the wording on the wiki, sure. I've pretty much kept it as-is just because of the age of many articles; stuff changes enough that a sufficiently out-of-date entry can be misleading. Y'all are right enough that it's nowhere near as inaccurate as it once was, though.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 17:35

heard u like girls: Mar 25, 2013

Scaramouche posted:

Good to see you guys tourneying. I had an old as poo poo laptop that couldn't handle web tiles, but the day I got a new one the guy whose account the internet was in moved out, and we're not getting a new hookup until Thurs, and hotspotting it off my phone doesn't cut it for web tiles. I grabbed 0.17 anyway, and there's a lot of changes so far. One thing I've noticed is the key repeat rate seems to be changed? e.g. holding 5 to rest takes forever now; is that in crawl or just some kind of setting on my new system most likely?

Did you try Numlock ?

# ? Nov 11, 2015 17:52

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Also were you actually holding down the "wait one turn" button to rest instead of hitting the one that automatically waits up to 100 turns

# ? Nov 11, 2015 17:56

Ramc: May 4, 2008; Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

Amazing. Stupendous.

Look at these wins. Yooouge, beautiful 15 rune wins. Stunning runes. A Formicid Chaos Knight that worshipped Xom the entire way? Incredible.

This. This is what Crawl is all about, and could be all about again. Once GOZAG/TRUMP 2016 wins this tourney we are going to take back the game from those devs illegally removing quality content. We always win, and that is why by the time good American families are sitting down to Thanksgiving you will be able to play Lava Orc Stalkers and evaporate potions to make DIY mephitic clouds JUST LIKE THE FOUNDERS INTENDED!

"What do you say to allegations that there have been at least 80 splats by GOZAG/TRUMP 2016: MAKE CRAWL GREAT AGAIN players"

Look, splatting is just a business strategy used by many high level players to scum wins. Remember that it is just the PLAYERS who are splatting and never GOZAG/TRUMP. Besides everyone knows with the economic climate of 0.17 that these things just happen. And we're going to fix it by returning Races that had been outsourced to Japan and China, like Mountain Dwarves, Djinni and Sludge Elves.

Look, not all devs are coming here and stealing our content. We have a dev on our team who never, to my knowledge, removed or nerfed tons of useful air spells like Fly, Swiftness and Insulate. But we are going to build a wall so those bad devs can't abuse our code anymore. And they're going to pay for it. And we're going to do it without any help from SuperPacs like DrKe, bart or Sharkman1231.

GOZAG/TRUMP 2016: MAKE CRAWL GREAT AGAIN

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:03

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Managed to get a 2-win streak going after winning my MfSk, and decided to play it safe with a Troll Necromancer (aka a Troll) for a third win. Walked around a corner on D:1, got instagibbed by a max-damage roll distortion effect from a dagger wielded by a goblin. Well played, Crawl.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:16

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

I've lost count of how many 2 win streaks I've had get ended on D:1/2 by the cruelty of the RNG. Adders and jackals are the bane of my low level existence.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 19:46

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I had a game, Hill Orc gladiator, end 77 turns in against the first enemy I saw which I was just unable to kill in melee due to bad attack rolls. It was a gecko.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 19:49

Matlock Birthmark: Sep 24, 2005; I wanted this to happen!!; Soiled Meat

Internet Kraken posted:

I've lost count of how many 2 win streaks I've had get ended on D:1/2 by the cruelty of the RNG. Adders and jackals are the bane of my low level existence.

Ha ha, no joke. Been away from this game from awhile, started up a wizard, and the first room I went into had like 5 of those stupid jackals. Sometimes the game just wants you to die early.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 19:50

Angry Diplomat: Nov 7, 2009; Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

I've got an Ogre Warper who just found the book of Debilitation right outside the Temple. I figure a moderately-armoured hybrid with a heavy focus on ranged combat and hit-and-run tactics could work fairly well, if I use my spells cleverly. What god would complement that best? I'm thinking maybe Ash, but I'd have to go without weapon binding for a while since I want to use my blowgun, and Ogres suck poo poo at stealth. Possibly Oka or Makhleb for generic usefulness, I suppose.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 20:05

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Going without binding your weapon on Ashenzari is a fine choice, you're only missing out on potential piety gain and increased weapon skill.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 20:08

Not My Leg: Nov 6, 2002; AYN RAND AKBAR!

code:

16189444 NotMyLeg the Bringer of Law (level 27, 163/163 HPs)
             Began as a Vine Stalker Gladiator on Nov 10, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Zin.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Nov 11, 2015!
             
             The game lasted 06:06:15 (96288 turns).

code:

2470049 NotMyLeg the Axe Maniac (level 26, 239/239 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Nov 11, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Trog.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes!
             
             The game lasted 03:36:09 (63208 turns).

My first streak ever. Granted, VSGl -> MiBe isn't going to win any awards for difficulty, but it's still nice to remember that I actually can win this game sometimes.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 20:55

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

It's weird that the two lowest turn count wins are 15 rune.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 20:59

Not My Leg: Nov 6, 2002; AYN RAND AKBAR!

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

It's weird that the two lowest turn count wins are 15 rune.

It will obviously change once people really start gunning for fastest win, but it's still impressive and pretty funny.

What's really interesting to me though is that 4thArraOfDagon's game wasn't longer just because getting 15 runes takes longer than getting 3. His early game was dramatically slower than a 3 rune speed run early game. Actually, his early game was slower than an entire 3 rune speedrun - 4thArraOfDagon picked up his first rune at about 14,000 turns. The fastest 3 rune speedrun in the 0.16 tournament was 13,705 turns total.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 21:44

Yas: Apr 7, 2009

Do cure wounds potions from potion petition work on vine stalkers? I'm in spider but haven't needed to use it yet. Also, is a captain's cutlass good enough for 3 runes of should I be looking for a quick blade on this guy?
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Yas/Yas.txt

# ? Nov 11, 2015 21:59

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

It works with mummies, so I would assume yes?

# ? Nov 12, 2015 00:30

Slaapaav: Mar 3, 2006; by Azathoth

got abyssed in elf3 with 3 runes and got out of the abyss with transient muts out the rear end and -2 int. then i died because i got stuck in the worst bunch of elfs for 30 turns while under every effect ever without being able to use any of my escape options.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 00:44