|
Uh-oh guys, the secret's out!huffingtonpost posted:. In other, more relevant news, the Russian representative to the UN Security Council said he'd veto any resolution establishing a no-fly zone. To what end, I'm not sure; maybe they're trying to show other client-state dictators that they won't abandon them when the going gets tough? What were Libya's ties with Russia like?
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:20 |
|
|
Monkeytime posted:Uh-oh guys, the secret's out! Has the "security" council ever actually done anything of substance?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:24
|
|
|
Sivias posted:You clearly have very little understanding about the level of influence oil has on the structure of the human civilization. Sivias posted:The level of human suffering that will occur when our oil runs out will be like that our species has never seen. Maybe if it just up and vanished. But it won't. It'll slowly disappear as we ramp up technologies we can use as substitutes. There may be a decline in population, growth, food, and wealth until we can find a sustainable equilibrium between people and renewable resources but that doesn't mean we're going to be reduced to a primitive world as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:26
|
|
|
Monkeytime posted:Uh-oh guys, the secret's out! Am I the only one who enjoys how non-sensical the conspiracies the dictators churn out are? "American backed foreign Al-Queda fighters are working with Al-Jazeera to create a breakaway Islamist Emirate, enabled by machinations of Israel!" What the gently caress man? There's like six differing ideologies in that loving thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:27
|
|
|
^^^^^ It's not really so far fetched that people wouldn't believe it. How much crazier is that than "Obama is a communist nazi socialist liberal secret muslim kenyan"?Monkeytime posted:In other, more relevant news, the Russian representative to the UN Security Council said he'd veto any resolution establishing a no-fly zone. To what end, I'm not sure; maybe they're trying to show other client-state dictators that they won't abandon them when the going gets tough? A dude on NPR last night said that Russia's vetoing the no-fly zone isn't because they give a poo poo about Libya but rather that a similar resolution somehow came back to bite them in the rear end in the past. The US and UK appear to be preparing for it anyway. IRQ fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 1, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:29
|
|
|
Slantedfloors posted:Am I the only one who enjoys how non-sensical the conspiracies the dictators churn out are? It's basically a paranoiac's dart board. I guess they figure if they hit at least one person's favorite hot button ideology, then the rest doesn't matter because that one issue is enough to get that person on board. Sadly, that does actually work for some people. The good news is it only works on the REALLY crazy people, whose numbers are too low to be meaningful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:31
|
|
|
Maybe someone should deliver a list of advice from all us old crappy democracies to these new ones. Stuff like: Have more than two parties, have short term limits on all government positions, and take conflict of interest seriously from day 1. Also, if you've got anything in your laws about giving anyone more legal immunity than anyone else because they're in the government, that's kind of sucked for the US.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:34
|
|
|
It seems like there are a few countries in the Arab world that, with respect to the Sunni/Shiite dividing line in Islam, are governed by a minority sect. Is there anyone out there who is seriously up on their middle east that would like to put together a color coded map? I would be really interested in seeing the 'big picture', identifying by color or somesuch which nations were majority Sunni, majority Shiite, and those that were governed by the minority religious sect in their nation. On top of that, possibly color coding the names of each nation to indicate the level of unrest. Don't know if we have someone that inclined and knowledgeable, but I think it'd be a neat thing to have available.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:38
|
|
|
To be honest, the US is the worst example of a democratic country when it comes to those issues. Yeah, corruption exists elsewhere, but not nearly to the extent that you guys have it. So I wouldn't be too worried about the middle east. Sorry you guys have such poo poo laws and politicians v  v
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:38
|
|
|
Cartouche posted:Has the "security" council ever actually done anything of substance? Besides the Korean War and Desert Storm? I suppose not. And I suppose Qkhaddaafi (seriously I've seen at least 6 different spellings of his name) would have to do something pretty drat serious to get China and Russia on board here. @Cheshire Cat: I would like to see that term actually minted: "Wow, they've gotten so desperate for spin they have resorted to a (the?) Paranoiac's Dart Board"
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:40
|
|
|
I think this might actually be the real deal:quote:@NellyFurtado Yemen's protesters are still hanging in there. Bread Hats, unite! quote:Yemen's president has hit out at Israel and the US, accusing them of destabilising his country and the Arab world as protesters demanding his ouster press ahead with demonstrations. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/20113191141211328.html Iran is doggedly protesting as well: quote:Iran's security forces fired teargas and clashed with opposition supporters in central Tehran, where demonstrators were rallying to demand the release of two opposition leaders, according to witnesses and an opposition website. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201131155137369204.html Forgive me, Iran, I've considered you an enemy my whole life, but now I see that it was your leaders, not your people, who are the enemy; and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, ergo the Iranian people are friends. A new list of the Egyptian oppositions continued demands: quote:Call for Action, Reasons to go to #Tahrir Square this Friday, 4th march http://www.raafatology.com/2011/03/call-for-action-reasons-to-go-to-tahrir.html Thank you, Raafatology. And there's revolution and counter-revolution in Kurdistan, which has been entirely forgotten. quote:@RuwaydaMustafah Kurdistan is a region that overlaps parts of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Much like the Palestinians, the Kurds are a people without a country. Saddam Hussein gassed a bunch of them at the end of the first Iraq war, and this was used as evidence before the second Iraq war to show that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:42
|
|
|
Slantedfloors posted:Am I the only one who enjoys how non-sensical the conspiracies the dictators churn out are? "American backed foreign Al-Queda fighters" - US gave them a bunch of guns in the 80's no? "are working with Al-Jazeera" - Well, they're against us, so they must be together. "to create a breakaway Islamist Emirate" - I'm not even sure what this means. I'm studying more about it. "enabled by the machinations of Israel!" - Hate those guys. Thorn in our sides. Also the friend of my enemy is my enemy. I fully understand I'm trying to really get into the minds of the crazy because when I read it before breaking it down, it's complete bullshit. Unfortunately the logic doesn't really work out well. Chickens can reproduce. Cows can reproduce. I eat cows and chickens. I would love to eat the offspring of a cow and chicken.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:43
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:To be honest, the US is the worst example of a democratic country when it comes to those issues. Yeah, corruption exists elsewhere, but not nearly to the extent that you guys have it. Ever heard of Italy, Spain, Greece, most of South and Central America, South Africa, South Korea, India, or the Balkan nations, among others? The US has its problems with corruption and its political system, but we're a drat beacon of cleanliness and functionality compared to some other democracies. 
Roark fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Mar 1, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:46
|
|
|
Roark posted:Ever heard of Italy, Spain, Greece, most of South and Central America, South Africa, South Korea, India, or the Balkan nations, among others? The US has it's problems with corruption and it's political system, but we're a drat beacon of cleanliness and functionality compared to some other democracies. Okay, point. The US does kind of have a disproportionate amount of corruption compared to their quality of life, though. Most of those countries have poor living conditions because of their poor governments. In the US you live well but it's like you're actively trying to make your lives worse.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:53
|
|
|
Roark posted:Ever heard of Italy, Spain, Greece, most of South and Central America, South Africa, South Korea, India, or the Balkan nations, among others? The US has its problems with corruption and its political system, but we're a drat beacon of cleanliness and functionality compared to some other democracies. You're not entirely wrong, but Central & South America and South Africa had our influence(and training on death squads) on regime change to play into their current affairs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:55
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Okay, point. The US does kind of have a disproportionate amount of corruption compared to their quality of life, though. Most of those countries have poor living conditions because of their poor governments. In the US you live well but it's like you're actively trying to make your lives worse. I don't think the standard of living is significantly lower in Italy or Spain or even in most of the Balkans than it is in the US, and the corruption in some of these places - Italy especially - is far worse. Those that do have worse standards of living do so largely because of other factors (including the involvement of other nations), not just corruption.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 19:58
|
|
|
Italy is a weird case, because they've had trouble with their government ever since Mussolini fell, but it's like the people all kind of decided to just keep on living their lives. I think your average Italian cares even less about politics than your average American.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:02
|
|
|
glug posted:It seems like there are a few countries in the Arab world that, with respect to the Sunni/Shiite dividing line in Islam, are governed by a minority sect. Is there anyone out there who is seriously up on their middle east that would like to put together a color coded map? I can't make a map at the moment, but brief summary: there are very few Shia in Egypt or points west, North African Muslims are almost unanimously Sunni (with Christian minorities). Both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas rule territories that are overwhelmingly Sunni, with Christian minorities. Israel rules a territory that's ~80% Jewish with Christian, Muslim, and (small) Druze minorities. Lebanon is plurality (40%+) Shia with smaller Sunni, Maronite Christian, and Druze populations, and has a divided government by law that states that top offices must go to Shia, Maronite Christians, and Sunnis. Jordan is mostly Sunni and ruled by a Sunni king. Syria is about 80%+ Sunni with Shia and Christian minorities and is ruled by a dictator from the small Alawite sect of Shia Islam (who are basically the Mormons of Islam, they're really different from mainstream Islam). The Alawites, though less than 10% of the population of Syria, are an elite group and dominate the key positions. Iraq is majority (there hasn't been a census since the days of Saddam, I believe, so take it with a grain of salt when I say ~60%) Shia and its PM is a Shia, though not an especially popular one. Iran is 90% Shia and is ruled by Shia clergy. Saudi Arabia is strongly majority Sunni, but Eastern Saudi Arabia is filled with Shia, and Saudi Arabia embraces a hardline sect Sunni Islam called Wahhabism. Bahrain is supermajority Shia ruled by a small Sunni clique. Oman is split between Sunnism and a particular sect of Shia Islam, but the government tolerates both as state-sanctioned (it also has Christians and Hindus due to foreign guest workers). Yemen has an amazingly close Sunni/Shia split and is ruled by a Sunni President for life. The UAE is roughly 75-80% Sunni and is ruled by Sunni emirs. In short, the only ones at the moment ruled by minorities are Syria and Bahrain, with Lebanon being a confusing case.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:05
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I think your average Italian cares even less about politics than your average American. You grossly overestimate the intellectual capability of your average American. We're so loving stupid. Fat and loving stupid. (In one of our most popular elections in our history in 2008 only 54% of the population went to the voting polls)
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:07
|
|
|
Sivias posted:You grossly overestimate the intellectual capability of your average American. We're so loving stupid. Fat and loving stupid. Where are you getting 54%? I looked 2008 up and got 58%. EDIT: For those that are interested for whatever reason: Total Voting Age Population: 225,498,000 Total Registered Voters: 176,713,703 Votes Cast 131,463,122 % of Total Voting Age Population voting: 58.3% % of Registered Voters voting 74.4% Patter Song fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 1, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:11
|
|
|
A must-see video of police casually beating the gently caress out of people who are stopped in traffic--"Hmm, you're with in clubbing range, have a few whacks.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwRyXKL8caA I don't think this is too horrible; you must forgive me, my computer is working on another task right now and hangs up when I try to watch video, so if I missed the Iranian police eating a baby right in the middle, it was an honest mistake. The Iranian police are also picking up Kurds: quote:Eleven young people in different parts of Iranian Kurdistan have been arrested http://eastkurd.blog.co.uk/2011/03/01/eleven-young-people-in-different-parts-of-iranian-kurdistan-have-been-arrested-10729193/ You must understand that this is a "No True Iranian" type of thing. Whenever there is any sort of unrest in any of the countries that are overlapped by Kurdistan, the Kurds are the ones who are blamed first. They're the boogieman of the Arab world. And in Oman, Sheik Hassan of Jordan give a speech worthy of Muammar, although parts of its apparent insanity could be because it's translated from Arabic to English by Google Chrome: quote:Mohammed Al-Najjar - Oman http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7D68B92F-1A98-415E-99D5-616507D95768.htm?GoogleStatID=1 <---This is in Arabic, btw, maybe Ham or somebody who reads Arabic can tell us if it's as insane as it sounds when translated to English. I'm not fond of the hijab as a fashion statement, but if women want to wear them, they should be allowed to do so. Azerbaijan may be joining the protests in the near future: quote:The government in Baku is supported by the U.S. Political experts think that Azerbaijan may be in line for its share of protests. The only reason they have not happened earlier is because of government crackdowns. http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8337926-azerbaijan-may-be-next-on-protest-hit-list?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:11
|
|
|
TheBalor posted:Fixed my post. I'm still interested in an answer to the question, though. If we can switch away from fossil fuels on our power-generation needs, might we be able to use synthetic oil and remaining reserves to stretch out our supply for a good deal longer? Or is the lion's share of oil used in these industrial applications?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:12
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Where are you getting 54%? I looked 2008 up and got 58%. Maybe my information is a bit off. The point is, nearly half the voting populace didn't bother. That's an incredible number of people who decided to 'just stay in and watch TV instead.'
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:12
|
|
|
glug posted:It seems like there are a few countries in the Arab world that, with respect to the Sunni/Shiite dividing line in Islam, are governed by a minority sect. Is there anyone out there who is seriously up on their middle east that would like to put together a color coded map? Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq and Bahrain are all Shiite majority, Bahrain is ruled by a Sunni regime but there rest are governed primarily by Shiites, though Iraq is sort of a special case because of the large Sunni minority as well as the ethnic distinction between the Kurds (who are mostly Sunni) and Arabs. Lebanon is divided between Sunnis, Shiites and several Christian denominations and their government is divided between the three main religious groups in the hopes of preventing any one from getting too much power, though there are a lot of people who want to get rid of this system in favor of a truly democratic system. Oman is majority Ibadhi, which is different from either Sunni or Shiite, and is run by an Ibadhi regime. Pretty much every other Muslim country is predominantly Sunni and governed by either a Sunni regime or a secular regime. Syria is noteworthy in that it's a secular regime but both the current president and his father, from whom he inherited his position, are Alawis who are a sect of Shiites. Saudi Arabia is also noteworthy because of its large and potentially restive Shiite minority that is focused on the east coast of the country. These Saudi Shiites could potentially be a major threat to the Saudi government, especially if they're inspired by what's going on in Bahrain. I found a map on wikipedia that shows not only the Sunni/Shia division but the major schools within the sects. I'm not 100% certain on its accuracy since it does come from wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt but I thought it might be useful.  Click here for the full 1245x604 image. stereobreadsticks fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 1, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:14
|
|
|
Apology posted:I think this might actually be the real deal: quote:@NellyFurtado 1) It's stupid and nobody cares about Nelly Furtado 2) Ghaddafi has always been a monster so why is your conscience only speaking now? 3) It happened in 2007 and nobody cared back then so why would anyone care now?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:15
|
|
|
Pleads posted:Yeah this is getting coverage in Canada but nobody really knows where to stand on it because: The biggest point it makes for me, like formerly famous artist Eve. Entertainers have a lot of really gross contacts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:18
|
|
|
Pleads posted:Yeah this is getting coverage in Canada but nobody really knows where to stand on it because: Probably because whoever that person is probably had no idea who Khadafi was before last week beyond "some rich guy."
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:40
|
|
|
This is just confusing as hell to me. We have proposed legislation for installing an internet kill switch, yet Hillary Clinton wants to fund the development of an untraceable cellphone meshnet. WTH?quote:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/mobile-tech-activists-wary-of-state-department-cash/ And nobody wants to take the money because of the red tape involved. This is what happened to all the infrastructure projects that the stimulus package was supposed to pay for; the people who needed the work couldn't afford the extra staffing that would be needed to sort through all the red tape, or couldn't meet all the picayune requirements in order to win the contracts. One contractor I know said "It sounds more like signing up for a 25-year-long nightmare to me."
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:42
|
|
|
dao Jones posted:And I suppose Qkhaddaafi (seriously I've seen at least 6 different spellings of his name) Same here, but I bet it's spelled only one way in whatever dominant arabic is used in Libya.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:45
|
|
|
Apology posted:Kurdistan is a region that overlaps parts of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Much like the Palestinians, the Kurds are a people without a country. Saddam Hussein gassed a bunch of them at the end of the first Iraq war, and this was used as evidence before the second Iraq war to show that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. I hadn't heard of that overlapping region thing.. where they ever an independent nation? I knew they wanted to break off from Iraq, but I didn't know that three countries had to be cool with the idea of a region breaking off like that. Seems like a very lovely situation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:49
|
|
|
glug posted:Same here, but I bet it's spelled only one way in whatever dominant arabic is used in Libya. It is not really widely known that his real name is Maurice Goldberg. He only added all the extra/aternate letters because he is an awful cheat at Scrabble.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:50
|
|
|
Chade Johnson posted:Why? Lukashenko has a wide base of support, I don't see it happening. How is that relevant? Mubarak had a wider base of support than most European governments, yet he fell. Likewise with Slobodan Milosevic. Or Saddam Hussein. Or... Revolutions are not democratic processes, in case you didn't know. They happen regardless of what the majority thinks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:51
|
|
|
Jack Napier posted:You're not entirely wrong, but Central & South America and South Africa had our influence(and training on death squads) on regime change to play into their current affairs. And the US were influenced by the helping hand of France providing arms to us rebels, followed by Spain and the Dutch jumping in our our enemies and securing our breakaway, I mean you can do that poo poo all day and ultimately if you're going to judge a country and it's government you're going to have to judge that country and it's government.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:53
|
|
|
glug posted:I hadn't heard of that overlapping region thing.. where they ever an independent nation? I knew they wanted to break off from Iraq, but I didn't know that three countries had to be cool with the idea of a region breaking off like that. Seems like a very lovely situation. I think there were plans to break Kurdistan off into an independent state after WW1, but it was ignored and forgotten like all other promises made to the UK's Middle Eastern allies.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:56
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:I can't make a map at the moment, but brief summary: Wow. Thanks for that post!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:58
|
|
|
glug posted:I hadn't heard of that overlapping region thing.. where they ever an independent nation? I knew they wanted to break off from Iraq, but I didn't know that three countries had to be cool with the idea of a region breaking off like that. Seems like a very lovely situation. In the modern period, no. Well, pretty much no: there were an unrecognized Kurdish kingdom in Iraqi Kurdistan post-WWI, but it was integrated into Irag. And even in the pre-modern period, there never was a Kurdish "kingdom"; there were individual Kurdish emirates and sultanates, and Kurdish dynasties that ruled over non-Kurdish majorities (most famously the Ayyubids) at various points in the Middle Ages, but nothing that lasted into the modern period. Edit: The Kurds were kind of shafted in the post-WWI settlements. Wilson made noises about backing a Kurdish state, but the whole thing got swept away by the Treaty of Sevres falling through and being replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne. Roark fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 1, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:58
|
|
|
Roark posted:Ever heard of Italy, Spain, Greece, most of South and Central America, South Africa, South Korea, India, or the Balkan nations, among others? The US has its problems with corruption and its political system, but we're a drat beacon of cleanliness and functionality compared to some other democracies. Italy, Greece, South Korea, and most of South and Central America have had so much fuckery from the US and the CIA that their corruption is a direct result of our influence.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 20:58
|
|
|
Trickjaw posted:It is not really widely known that his real name is Maurice Goldberg. He only added all the extra/aternate letters because he is an awful cheat at Scrabble. Yet another celebrity hiding his Jewish roots! Hollywood has no soul.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 21:02
|
|
|
Roark posted:Edit: The Kurds were kind of shafted in the post-WWI settlements. Wilson made noises about backing a Kurdish state, but the whole thing got swept away by the Treaty of Sevres falling through and being replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne. In all fairness, the Turks went absolutely ape-poo poo-go-go-nuts crazy and rampaged through the territory the Entente took from them. It's not like the signatories just abandoned Sevres to mess with the Kurds like they did the Arabs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 21:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:20 |
|
|
Roark posted:In the modern period, no. Well, pretty much no: there were an unrecognized Kurdish kingdom in Iraqi Kurdistan post-WWI, but it was integrated into Irag. And even in the pre-modern period, there never was a Kurdish "kingdom"; there were individual Kurdish emirates and sultanates, and Kurdish dynasties that ruled over non-Kurdish majorities (most famously the Ayyubids) at various points in the Middle Ages, but nothing that lasted into the modern period. You probably know a lot more about it than I do. I did find a map from the 1870s that showed Kurdistan as a separate nation. For reference, there was also an Armenia on the map.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2011 21:08
|
|