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Ligur posted:Heh. MV-lehti does not represent "racists" Why would anyone ever type this sentence?
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Apr 10, 2016 15:40
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I know no-one here thinks I'm just being mean to Ligur but just in case, have a look here and then please tell me which of the articles aren't literally one hundred percent by and for racists?
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Apr 10, 2016 15:42
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(Don't actually.)
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Apr 10, 2016 15:44
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Ligur posted:Heh. MV-lehti does not represent "racists" or immigration critical people, and certainly is not the voice for anyone (except in the head of some leftie-hörhös). That sounds like a whole lot of excuses for your side when it comes to rhetoric you've spent the last two pages whining about. MV-lehti most certainly does market itself for racists and the most extreme of immigration critical people and you don't get to erase that with "heh". Anyone is not in fact free game for the fabricated articles they post, just the sort of people with certain, specific political leanings. They are rightie-hörhös. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 15:51
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DarkCrawler does have a point but like nauta figures my musings were on the context of a very left leaning forum, like Darkie recognizes we're writing at right now. I can't stand hommaforum and I would be called a muslimlovertraitor on a jiffy, I'm quite aware of that but I was not talking about the many pitfalls of more right or immigration skeptical boards. Yeah there are people who refugee = asylum seeker = terrorist. That doesn't make the dishonesty of unelma-posse any less real. My wonderment in this case was why posters here (those who bother with the topic) feel necessary to accuse of racism, personally attack and even demand silencing (ie reporting posts with a quick finger, or closing threads) those who are crazy or indifferent enough to voice suspicions about the beneficiality of mass migration here. They often, or even commonly do this by dishonestly describing the contents or message of those that cause them offended feelings and resort to personal attacks. Ref: any of the Europol threads when anyone suggest any other solution to the migrant crisis except taking them endlessly. Now, to be honest DarkCrawler, and I'm talking this forum not somewhere else, the pro-migrant posse is much more eager to dismiss the other side as simply racists whose opinions can be ignored or attacked on that basis and hurling personal insults to the tune of fascist murderer pig, and using hyperboles (not granting asylum from country of choice for example is equated to killing) than the other side is to discussing like that.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:59
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I sometimes forget I'm writing here... MV-lehti is not the officially chosen äänitorvi of racists, the right-wing or much less Halla-aho like Rexroom implied when posting about a supposed rift with JH-a and them. His analysis of the sitation was quite wrong, I was "heh" at that. I should have known someone here could read that as "mv-lehti does not target that group"... It certainly caters to mostly racists, far-right, putinists and whatnot readers. What the gently caress, guys.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:10
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Ligur posted:DarkCrawler does have a point but like nauta figures my musings were on the context of a very left leaning forum, like Darkie recognizes we're writing at right now. Some of them are. Some of them aren't. There is more of them so you are going to find people unwilling to debate among them honestly in seemingly greater proportion. However, the anti-migrant posse is like 50% low effort trolls. If you really want to make an argument about who is doing more of what, proportionally on this forum, you're still going to lose it. It makes sense, if there is a right-winger sticking it out on a left-wing forum they are usually less moderate then right-wingers as a whole. Same thing vice versa. If you are asking why these left-wing posters do this particular thing it's not a mystery. They live in an echo chamber where any opposing viewpoint is automatically treated as hostile. You can do this on the internet, you can do it on social media, hell if you live in a big OR small enough place (entire neighborhood for left, or town for right mostly sharing your viewpoints) you can do it on real life. You get repeated that something is the absolute truth enough, you tend to start believe that. Thus any view alternative to the consensus they live in almost 24/7, regardless of the actual rhetoric used by in support of that view is haram. What my problem is that you seem to think that this is something unexplainable, when it is just basic human behavior that you see on the news literally every day. If you are not exposed enough to something you tend to view that something based on preconceptions. If that preconception is negative, well... DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 16:15
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I don't think its UNAXPLAINABLE WONDER WTF, I understand the echo-chamber aspect. However I post here, I'm not in a chamber with likeminded people most of the time. I'm still honestly wondering can't the "gaaaah ur a racist killar, ADMIT IT!" posse never ever stop to think might there be something else behind the opposing views after all, and if they do, do they have the balls to say so. Ja miksi kaikki pitää aina vetää niin totaalisesti yli. I believe discussing like that doesn't have to be the only way. I'm also not pointing my finger to only the pro-migrant left, but their idea that being wary of this (mostly muslim) mass migration smacks of racism or irrational xenophobia is more PC and politically tolerated in the mainstream public sphete when it comes to media and governing. Ref: our very lax laws regarding, and labeling any organization that tries to promote stricter migration when it comes to asylum seeking as crazy xenophobia hitler. Or do you disagree?
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Apr 10, 2016 16:33
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Ligur posted:I believe discussing like that doesn't have to be the only way. I'm also not pointing my finger to only the pro-migrant left, but their idea that being wary of this (mostly muslim) mass migration smacks of racism or irrational xenophobia is more PC and politically tolerated in the mainstream public sphete when it comes to media and governing. Ref: our very lax laws regarding, and labeling any organization that tries to promote stricter migration when it comes to asylum seeking as crazy xenophobia hitler. I disagree. The president made a speech on that matter which I thought was completely reasonable. Most seemed to agree with that. All mainstream politicians and political parties are largely unified in their rhetoric. Some people disagreed on both spheres of the debate, but they are a minority. There are no lax laws that aren't covered by the freedom of speech law. Anyone seems to be able to label anything as anything on a pretty equal basis, its up to the public to see if they agree with that. There has been frequent discussion about it on almost every form of media as well, nobody is restricting it. If the values you see reflected in legal decisions by our elected government and media are something you don't like, that doesn't mean they aren't the values shared by majority of Finns. I may disagree about the current ways of the government but I don't pretend I'm the majority opinion on every specific issue. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 16:49
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Suomidemokraatit, the last white party hope for the true immigration criticals, chose their board today. And it's these handsome, familiar fellas as the chair and vice chair:  Given Olavi being Olavi, him and that hungover George Lucas lookalike already having clashed over one micro party project a decade ago, and what kind of folks seem to hover toward this kind of projects these days, I expect maximum hilarity and minimum success. Godspeed.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:10
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Lunsku posted:Suomidemokraatit, the last white party hope for the true immigration criticals, chose their board today. And it's these handsome, familiar fellas as the chair and vice chair: They don't call Turku the rear end in a top hat of Finland for nothing. 
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Apr 10, 2016 18:17
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incidentally jerry lives in turku iirc
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Apr 10, 2016 18:48
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turku on suomen tampere e: jerry is not an rear end in a top hat he is a nice guy
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Apr 10, 2016 18:54
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Did you guys just post about 4 pages worth of variations on the theme of "well actually, I see nothing racist about saying the fourteen words." Olawi being in charge of SD is the most hilarious thing because he has the ability to break up any far right group he joins.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:11
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no
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Apr 10, 2016 21:00
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https://youtu.be/OLdRqqza0no
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Apr 10, 2016 21:07
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Rexroom posted:They don't call Turku the rear end in a top hat of Finland for nothing. 
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Apr 11, 2016 02:25
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http://www.di.se/artiklar/2016/4/7/ledare-integrationen-mer-akut-an-vad-vi-trodde/quote:The categories of full-time employed and entrepreneurs, ie people who mainly support themselves, constitute 69 percent of the total population between 20 and 64 years. The same categories of refugees and refugee families was 25 percent after eight years in Sweden and 34 percent after 15 years. There are alarming figures. They are in addition from 2013, that is, measures a period when the refugee immigration to Sweden was rather small. I'm really sad that the ScandiPol thread doesn't exist anymore because I'd love to know how they would explain these numbers.
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Apr 11, 2016 09:33
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Depending on random Swedish internet leftists to explain things to you is certainly a pretty novel way of acquiring information and educating yourself
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Apr 11, 2016 11:04
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Especially through a Finnish Politics thread.
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Apr 11, 2016 11:06
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OhYeah posted:http://www.di.se/artiklar/2016/4/7/ledare-integrationen-mer-akut-an-vad-vi-trodde/ You will blame refugees' lack of skills / willingness to work, they will blame discrimination, in the end you will both be correct and wrong at the same time
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Apr 11, 2016 11:15
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Geriatric Pirate posted:You will blame refugees' lack of skills / willingness to work, they will blame discrimination, in the end you will both be correct and wrong at the same time So the truth is in the middle?
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Apr 11, 2016 11:45
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OhYeah posted:So the truth is in the middle? Somewhere between the extremes, not exactly in the middle probably
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Apr 11, 2016 12:00
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Not quite, the regular D&D Swede who reacts at all would say OhYeah doesn't understand the numbers, that he can't comment on them because he doesn't speak fluent Swedish, and would become agitated and call him a racist. Well, mostly just become agitated and call OhYeah a racist, after which accusing him of hating refugees. Why else would someone post, wonder and ask about statistics like that? So then, that is their explanation to those numbers = OhYeah racis' Their heads are completely impervious to things like "statistics" and "economic impact" when it comes to Geriatric Pirate posted:You will blame refugees' lack of skills / willingness to work, they will blame discrimination, in the end you will both be correct and wrong at the same time We actually know the answer, according to a recent, lengthy and comprehensive survey by the Swedish government. The new comers who stay unemployed do not have the required education and skills to enter the job market. quote:
I imagine the situation is quite similar in Finland, but there has not been a reason to carry out large surveys or reports this far in the long run. We already do know most of the new comers are poorly educated and especially challenged when it comes to language skills, and any reasonable person can deduct this does not bode well. Ur right though GP, "they" (and this is almost every poster of the pro-mass migration posse here) will blame discrimination. In the last EuroPol thread, when the argument that simple racism is the reason (for rampant unemployment in certain African or Middle-Eastern groups) was upset by the fact Ethiopians in Norway and Finland, and many. many other such groups actually do well in the job market, the goalposts shifted and now it was about Islamophobia instead! Now, European employers are apparently waging a secret campaign of discrimination targeting Muslims specifically with their race-radars, and will happily hire an Animist African nomad, but not a Muslim one, despite their skillset. edit: DarkCrawler posted:Depending on random Swedish internet leftists to explain things to you is certainly a pretty novel way of acquiring information and educating yourself You know as well as I do that he means he would love to watch them flipping out completely, not that he expects they would provide a word of sense Ligur fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Apr 11, 2016 |
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Apr 11, 2016 14:18
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Yes but I am also loving sick of people whining about Swedes and since this is not the Swedish thread I'm just going to make fun of every retard obsessed with writing hypothetical scenarios about how leftist Swedes are dumbdumb Obsessing about Swedes is like our third worst national characteristic
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Apr 11, 2016 15:44
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Tilastoja ja pohdintaa rikoksista: http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/a1460341981697
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Apr 11, 2016 20:06
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DarkCrawler posted:Yes but I am also loving sick of people whining about Swedes and since this is not the Swedish thread I'm just going to make fun of every retard obsessed with writing hypothetical scenarios about how leftist Swedes are dumbdumb You mistake "laughing at" with "whining about". It is an oft made joke - and this isn't only Finns, you should just read what Danish and Norwegian politicians and media say about the Swedes - that they can't stand any conversation against their local concensus, and it's magical how well this forum proves that true as they close down all the threads and rabidly attack anyone when it happens someone who doesn't agree arrives and makes a post.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:47
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To be fair, I don't think many 15yo Finns have a job either.
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Apr 11, 2016 21:42
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Tämähän ei ollut mahdollista koska vain punahilkka voisi keksiä, että näin keinoin voi päästä maasta toiseen. Myös ne jotka ovat pahat mielessä. Tätä systeemiä ei voi käyttää hyväksi: se on niin varma. Mutta onneksi kemper ja rexroom tietävät, että pahixet on niin tyhmiä ettei ne vois koskaan keksiä mitään tuollaista. Kaikki arabit on sorrettuja uhreja. Meidän pitää antaa niille rahaa. Ja onhan pahin pommi- ja raiskausuhka kuitenkin Oodinin soturit. e: Interesting indeed, vaihto varmaan linkin, TAHALLAAN :\ vvvvvvvv Ligur fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 22:39
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either fifth column refugee jihadists have blown up ilta=sanomat or your link is broken
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Apr 12, 2016 23:05
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Ligur posted:Tämähän ei ollut mahdollista koska vain punahilkka voisi keksiä, että näin keinoin voi päästä maasta toiseen. Myös ne jotka ovat pahat mielessä. Tätä systeemiä ei voi käyttää hyväksi: se on niin varma. I think even the most delusional "progressives" are not surprised anymore at this point.
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Apr 13, 2016 09:54
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The question of why you buncha Ligurs are busy playing along with ISIS' nefarious plot does arise from that article.
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Apr 13, 2016 10:03
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OhYeah posted:I think even the most delusional "progressives" are not surprised anymore at this point. Tutkiskelija Sinkkonen yllättyy kerta toisensa jälkeen, kuin sylivauva joka näkee asioita ensi kertaa.
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Apr 13, 2016 10:26
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Like, did any of you read that article past the headline?
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Apr 13, 2016 10:27
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Cerebral Bore posted:Like, did any of you read that article past the headline? What article?
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Apr 13, 2016 10:32
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Rexroom posted:What article? The one that Ligur linked that, once again, literally says the opposite of what he thinks it does.
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Apr 13, 2016 10:34
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Cerebral Bore posted:The one that Ligur linked that, once again, literally says the opposite of what he thinks it does. Ligur is busy defending Finland against the terror of people browner than good people, he doesn't have time to read!
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Apr 13, 2016 11:00
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http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-2000001157691.htmlquote:Työtön tekisi yrityksessä töitä usean kuukauden ajan ilman palkkaa. Hän saisi työajalta työttömän päivärahaa. Hänelle ei kertyisi työajalta lomaa tai eläkettä. Myöskään työterveyspalvelut eivät olisi työnäytettä antavan työntekijän käytettävissä. Työntekijän vakuutuksen toteuttaminen on Aulan mukaan vielä selvityksen alla. I think the whole lack of insurance is the most amazing part.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:55
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I think myself right wing on Finnish scale, but this is insane. Legalised slavery? What the gently caress were they thinking.
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Apr 13, 2016 12:00
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probably just that
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Apr 13, 2016 12:15
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