Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

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muike: Mar 16, 2011; ガチムチ　セブン

Gaius Marius posted:

Lol that people tried to hype this poo poo up as a great story

i haven't played it but 99% of stories are about the execution rather than the two sentence explanation posted on SA

# ? Feb 16, 2022 00:47

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:01

Omnicrom: Aug 3, 2007; Snorlax Afficionado

Gaius Marius posted:

Lol that people tried to hype this poo poo up as a great story

I know, it's a fantastically written game. I wish I was physically well enough to play it

ImpAtom posted:

Certainly better than Gundam Age's "Um, loving hell, Mars Rays amirite?"

DESTINY, for all its myriad faults, doesn't give the bastard responsible for millions if not billions of deaths a touching and heartwarming send-off, passing away peacefully in bed surrounded by family content in the knowledge he accomplished all he had set out to do in his life. CE has some Karma houdinis, but there isn't an Ezelcant enjoying his happy ending after committing genocide.

Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Feb 16, 2022

# ? Feb 16, 2022 00:47

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Gaius' posts convinced me to give Zeta Gundam another shot a while back

It's still a mess.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:14

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

ImpAtom posted:

I feel like the major thing, and it's kinda weird it is even coming up, is that there is not a direct coherent response to "I want to murder everyone" that even a talented person can make. You don't need to explain why genociding the world is a bad thing and to be in the mindset that it's okay to kill all life on the planet because rich people are shitheads basically is like trying to argue against maximum-grand doomerism. No, poor children don't deserve to be melted in microwaves because war exists and people are lovely.

But if someone thinks all life on the planet should die to the point they have engineered an apocalypse there's no argument you're going to make that changes their mind or even is relevant because anything you can say is met with "But aren't people assholes???" and... yeah, they are. That doesn't mean everyone deserves to die.

For good or ill that's basically the viewpoint the CE holds. "People are largely lovely, selfish and petty but they also can become better." With one end being the Lacus group who basically argues "We can't force people to be better but we can fight to protect those that can't" vs Durandal's "People are always going to be awful and need to be controlled to prevent them from being awful" and in a better-written series both of those arguments will probably find people who support them because there are plenty of people who long for a divine philosopher-king who forces peace onto the world and plenty who find the idea of giving up total control in the name of safety is an unforgivable sin. Rau is the outlier whose viewpoint is "gently caress it, there's no redeeming this shitpile, time for suicide."

There was no way to convince Rau but it seems to me like the critics in here are the ones who are upset. Obviously stuff that happens in a story isn't just about what happens in the story, it's real aim is to affect the audience and Kira failed to do that.

Your post though reminds me of a thought I had in the Tolkien thread:

quote:

Eru was never "not" intervening. That was Sauron's major delusion. This is Tolkien himself talking about Morgoth and Sauron's characters and the nature of their evil:
Sauron could not, of course, be a "sincere" atheist. Though one of the minor spirits created before the world, he knew Eru, according to his measure. He probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned E�, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. It would appear that he interpreted the "change of the world" at the Downfall of N�menor, when Aman was removed from the physical world, in this sense: Valar (and Elves) were removed from effective control, and Men under God's curse and wrath. If he thought about the Istari, especially Saruman and Gandalf, he imagined them as emissaries from the Valar, seeking to establish their lost power again and "colonize" Middle-earth, as a mere effort of defeated imperialists (without knowledge or sanction of Eru). His cynicism, which (sincerely) regarded the motives of Manw� as precisely the same as his own, seemed fully justified in Saruman. Gandalf he did not understand. But certainly he had already become evil, and therefore stupid, enough to imagine that his different behaviour was due simply to weaker intelligence and lack of firm masterful purpose. He was only a rather cleverer Radagast � cleverer, because it is more profitable (more productive of power) to become absorbed in the study of people rather than of animals.

EDIT:

I'm gonna ramble for a minute if you don't mind. This came to my mind when reflecting on Tolkien's comments on Sauron.

In a lot of fiction, good vs. evil is a purely emotive choice. "Come to the dark side because we have cookies!" vs. "But you made those cookies out of babies and that's bad."

Tolkien calls Sauron "stupid" because he's evil. Evil is inherently dumb or if you prefer irrational. I don't think a lot of people believe that. They believe evil can be a rational choice but it's to be rejected on the grounds of my feelings say it's wrong.

I'm not complaining about this. I think it's a natural response to thinking the world is meaningless. A Theist like Tolkien thinks the world is rational and ordered because of God and thus good is of course the smart choice. But it just strikes me as good vs evil arguments in fiction really do come down to these feelings more than "evil is dumb." Evil could make all the sense in the world but my conscience says no.

Kira and Rau is a petty prime example of this. Posters in this very thread are pointing to how Rau has all the logic and evidence on his side but Kira just stubbornly says no because his feelings. Evil has become the rational choice, Good's only resource is a sort of baseless intuition or instinct. This feels like it happens a lot in modern fiction. Or maybe just anime. I'm thinking here of Naruto vs. Nagato if you remember that not very good shounen anime from years ago.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:18

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

NikkolasKing posted:

Kira and Rau is a petty prime example of this. Posters in this very thread are pointing to how Rau has all the logic and evidence on his side but Kira just stubbornly says no because his feelings. Evil has become the rational choice, Good's only resource is a sort of baseless intuition or instinct. This feels like it happens a lot in modern fiction. Or maybe just anime. I'm thinking here of Naruto vs. Nagato if you remember that not very good shounen anime from years ago.

That's not really anything new. "Evil is what you get when you remove morality from an equation" is something as old as time. It's incredibly easy to justify any atrocity or any sin as long as you're not being emotional about it.

With the unspoken part being, in almost every situation, they are not doing that. They're just retroactively coming up with a justifiable excuse for their own emotions. Whatever arguments Rau makes they are entirely pointless because his actual motivation is "I was born a defective clone at the hands of a sociopath and that makes me so angry that I am coming up with an excuse for how I can take that anger out on the world." Which is also true of most "logical" or "rational" villains. Their logic only holds up with regards to themselves.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:26

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Rau is a classic example of "rear end in a top hat has a point or almost has a point but it's invalidated because he's being an rear end in a top hat about it"

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:30

muike: Mar 16, 2011; ガチムチ　セブン

I only read the Naruto manga and that ruled but Naruto being too stupid to ever learn to give in to Nagato's and Madara's simplistic nihilism was pretty cool because they sucked even if they could be technically "right" by a very selective metric

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:37

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

ImpAtom posted:

That's not really anything new. "Evil is what you get when you remove morality from an equation" is something as old as time. It's incredibly easy to justify any atrocity or any sin as long as you're not being emotional about it.

With the unspoken part being, in almost every situation, they are not doing that. They're just retroactively coming up with a justifiable excuse for their own emotions. Whatever arguments Rau makes they are entirely pointless because his actual motivation is "I was born a defective clone at the hands of a sociopath and that makes me so angry that I am coming up with an excuse for how I can take that anger out on the world." Which is also true of most "logical" or "rational" villains. Their logic only holds up with regards to themselves.

Of course you're right but that isn't a good response because "your life shaped who you are and you're just justifying things you already believed" is what most every human being alive does. Rau isn't remarkable in that regard. Whatever the reasons for an argument, you have to attack the soundness of the argument itself. Or you should, anyway.

Going back to my comparison with TDK Joker - he thought the actions of those handful of people on boats would "prove" human nature. Now, they didn't blow each other up but even if they had, that would prove nothing. Kira could have at least pointed out "Patrick Zala and Azrael are scum but so what? They're two people, out of billions." Like, World War 1 and 2 don't prove human nature just because some royal or fascist assholes sent millions of people to their death. It was the assholes at the top who did it, and that applies just as much to even the world-ending apocalypse at the end of SEED. You can't say all human beings are worthless just because a fraction of them are.

That doesn't seem like such a hard argument to make, a pretty simple and entirely rational counter to Rau's evil.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:50

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

NikkolasKing posted:

Of course you're right but that isn't a good response because "your life shaped who you are and you're just justifying things you already believed" is what most every human being alive does. Rau isn't remarkable in that regard. Whatever the reasons for an argument, you have to attack the soundness of the argument itself. Or you should, anyway.

Going back to my comparison with TDK Joker - he thought the actions of those handful of people on boats would "prove" human nature. Now, they didn't blow each other up but even if they had, that would prove nothing. Kira could have at least pointed out "Patrick Zala and Azrael are scum but so what? They're two people, out of billions." Like, World War 1 and 2 don't prove human nature just because some royal or fascist assholes sent millions of people to their death. It was the assholes at the top who did it, and that applies just as much to even the world-ending apocalypse at the end of SEED. You can't say all human beings are worthless just because a fraction of them are.

That doesn't seem like such a hard argument to make, a pretty simple and entirely rational counter to Rau's evil.

I mean the thing is that Rau didn't care. Rau was actively making all the violence worse behind the scenes. Patrick Zala might not even have gone full crazy if not for Rau. He isn't genuine in his argument and countering it doesn't matter because if you actually listen to the logic of his arguments it is just "People are bad sometimes!!"

Honestly it's like arguing with a troll on Twitter. The best way to play is not to.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 01:59

Argas: Jan 13, 2008; SRW Fanatic

Could've just been "I have nothing to say to a warmonger" or "you've been using this conflict as an opportunity to hurt others" or some poo poo.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 03:15

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

NikkolasKing posted:

Of course you're right but that isn't a good response because "your life shaped who you are and you're just justifying things you already believed" is what most every human being alive does. Rau isn't remarkable in that regard. Whatever the reasons for an argument, you have to attack the soundness of the argument itself. Or you should, anyway.

Going back to my comparison with TDK Joker - he thought the actions of those handful of people on boats would "prove" human nature. Now, they didn't blow each other up but even if they had, that would prove nothing. Kira could have at least pointed out "Patrick Zala and Azrael are scum but so what? They're two people, out of billions." Like, World War 1 and 2 don't prove human nature just because some royal or fascist assholes sent millions of people to their death. It was the assholes at the top who did it, and that applies just as much to even the world-ending apocalypse at the end of SEED. You can't say all human beings are worthless just because a fraction of them are.

That doesn't seem like such a hard argument to make, a pretty simple and entirely rational counter to Rau's evil.

It might not prove anything if they had, but it's still thematically important because it disproves the Joker's point that they didn't. The theory was tested, and it was shown to be wrong. The Joker then trying to force the issue acted as a punctuation mark on the argument, putting the good Batman fought for as a real thing, and Joker's convictions as a fake to cover over his own emptiness.

SEED, meanwhile, misses the easy layup. All they had to do was make Flay intentionally take a shot for Kira, maybe alongside the rest of the Dominion crew. Do that, and we get a visual illustration of how Kira's hope that people could get better was valid, Flay would get some agency in completing her arc, and the last big trauma for Kira would feel like a payoff rather than just bad things happening to make Kira cry. Again.

Instead, they have Rau's ranting not get a counterpoint. Unlike the Shonen standard, Kira won the fight, but not the argument. (Usually they're one and the same, like Kamille killing Paptimus using the same human connections that Paptimus scorned.)

The Lord of the Rings bit is interesting as well, because I've seen a lot of work on both sides of the divide. Star Trek is interesting in how it decayed from one to the other. In the original series, the Federation was portrayed as "better" than its enemies in multiple senses. Their moral virtue was one of the edges they had over their opponents, with the Mirror Universe episode making a point that Kirk and company kicked rear end while their evil counterparts were tossed in the brig because Kirk was the better person, and thus the smarter one. Meanwhile, Disco has the Mirror Universe folks run rings around the protagonists, because there good is dumb, but you should be good anyway because... reasons.

I'd have to go more in depth to study how various Gundam shows break down, but it's definitely not something that's purely a theist/ non-theist divide.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 04:50

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

I would say that with the TOS vs. modern Star Trek a lot of it has to do with the opinions and attitudes of the show runners, although I would hesitate to label it 'moral decline,' as A. American television is still struggling to get past 9/11, and B. the ultimate origin is probably like 'we need a cool infiltrator for this twist idea. I know, MIRROR UNIVERSE'

# ? Feb 16, 2022 05:22

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Mégas XLR did it best

# ? Feb 16, 2022 05:25

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

chiasaur11 posted:

It might not prove anything if they had, but it's still thematically important because it disproves the Joker's point that they didn't. The theory was tested, and it was shown to be wrong. The Joker then trying to force the issue acted as a punctuation mark on the argument, putting the good Batman fought for as a real thing, and Joker's convictions as a fake to cover over his own emptiness.

SEED, meanwhile, misses the easy layup. All they had to do was make Flay intentionally take a shot for Kira, maybe alongside the rest of the Dominion crew. Do that, and we get a visual illustration of how Kira's hope that people could get better was valid, Flay would get some agency in completing her arc, and the last big trauma for Kira would feel like a payoff rather than just bad things happening to make Kira cry. Again.

Instead, they have Rau's ranting not get a counterpoint. Unlike the Shonen standard, Kira won the fight, but not the argument. (Usually they're one and the same, like Kamille killing Paptimus using the same human connections that Paptimus scorned.)

This is explicitly wrong - SEED absolutely does provide a visual illustration of people not being poo poo during that fight. Rau's argument with Kira is cut with scenes of a ZAFT officer trying to stop Patrick from firing GENESIS at Earth to the point where he gets shot for it, then the guy shoots Patrick to stop him while bleeding out on the ground. It's really hard to put forward a clearer example of "not everyone is a selfish shithead who deserves to die" than a guy literally dying for no other reason than to save a bunch of people he's never met in the name of mercy. You also get scenes of Athrun and Cagalli fighting their way into GENESIS at the time, and that's two people who should be on opposite sides of the race war working together, one of whom is betraying his father and nation to do so.

It doesn't happen in front of Kira and Rau's eyes but that stuff is happening in front of the viewer at the same time.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 05:51

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

chiasaur11 posted:

It might not prove anything if they had, but it's still thematically important because it disproves the Joker's point that they didn't. The theory was tested, and it was shown to be wrong. The Joker then trying to force the issue acted as a punctuation mark on the argument, putting the good Batman fought for as a real thing, and Joker's convictions as a fake to cover over his own emptiness.

SEED, meanwhile, misses the easy layup. All they had to do was make Flay intentionally take a shot for Kira, maybe alongside the rest of the Dominion crew. Do that, and we get a visual illustration of how Kira's hope that people could get better was valid, Flay would get some agency in completing her arc, and the last big trauma for Kira would feel like a payoff rather than just bad things happening to make Kira cry. Again.

Instead, they have Rau's ranting not get a counterpoint. Unlike the Shonen standard, Kira won the fight, but not the argument. (Usually they're one and the same, like Kamille killing Paptimus using the same human connections that Paptimus scorned.)

The Lord of the Rings bit is interesting as well, because I've seen a lot of work on both sides of the divide. Star Trek is interesting in how it decayed from one to the other. In the original series, the Federation was portrayed as "better" than its enemies in multiple senses. Their moral virtue was one of the edges they had over their opponents, with the Mirror Universe episode making a point that Kirk and company kicked rear end while their evil counterparts were tossed in the brig because Kirk was the better person, and thus the smarter one. Meanwhile, Disco has the Mirror Universe folks run rings around the protagonists, because there good is dumb, but you should be good anyway because... reasons.

I'd have to go more in depth to study how various Gundam shows break down, but it's definitely not something that's purely a theist/ non-theist divide.

I guess all we really have is Natarle's end, and she was pretty much always my favorite character in SEED. Here was a character who was on the wrong side for sorta right reasons (at least compared to everybody else), but she ended up doing the right thing. But again I guess this was more of a spontaneous act of conscience than anything.

I don't know much about Trek but I have seen assorted episodes and movies and talk of mirror universe just makes me think of what seems to be the only popular episode of Enterprise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5QLokGTdyg

Obviously a pessimistic counterpart to the optimistic First Contact and I've often compared it to the Fallout series which I think would probably go along with the pessimistic account of things. Then again, as much as some people hate Lonesome Road or Ulysses, I loved this part: "It's said war - war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk." A bit of light in the darkness.

But I definitely agree with you that it isn't a strictly religious divide. A lot of people believe in goodness without believing in God. Maybe it was less about Tolkien's faith and more aboutr his being pretty well versed in history, philosophy and theology. Lazier writers are stumped by "why is Goodness good?" so they just kinda default to "because it is."

# ? Feb 16, 2022 05:59

Narzack: Sep 15, 2008

I'm completely new to the whole shebang, but I know that Gundam Wing is the one that I really want to watch. There are so many different opinions out there, but what's a good viewing order? I'm starting with Mobile Suit Gundam, and I like it, so I'll finish it, but where should I go from there? I'm watching on a friend's server, and he has-

*MSG and three movies
*Char's Counter Attack
*After War Gundam X
*Gundamn Evolve
*Mobile Fighter G
*Mobile Suit 0080 War in the Pocket
*Mobile Suit 0083 Stardust Memory
*Mobile Suit Gundam MS Igloo
*Mobile Suit The 08th MS Team
*Gundam Wing
*Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
*Mobile Suit Victory Gundam
*Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
*Turn A Gundam

And then a bunch of Macross, but I'm [i]pretty[/] sure those are something completely separate.

What do you reckon, and are there any that I should outright skip?

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:10

Warmachine: Jan 30, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

I mean the thing is that Rau didn't care. Rau was actively making all the violence worse behind the scenes. Patrick Zala might not even have gone full crazy if not for Rau. He isn't genuine in his argument and countering it doesn't matter because if you actually listen to the logic of his arguments it is just "People are bad sometimes!!"

Honestly it's like arguing with a troll on Twitter. The best way to play is not to.

As someone else pointed out, everyone and their dog knows there's no talking Rau down. Kira isn't presenting his thesis, at least in a meta sense, to do that--the audience KNOWS HE CAN'T SUCCEED AND MUST KILL RAU. Kira is justifying himself to the audience. The question put forth by Rau to the people watching at home is "Given what you've seen so far, why shouldn't we just let them kill each other?"

Kira fails to put forth a meaningful counterblow. And, mind you, a meaningful counter blow could be just shooting Rau and not talking. That's shorthand for the protagonist's thesis being that the antagonist's thesis is beneath contempt and not even worth engaging with.

Much like arguing with a troll on twitter, if you argue with the intent on changing the troll's mind, you've already lost. You argue with the intent on changing the audience's mind by making the troll look embarrassing. This is the formula for pretty much all debate in a public forum and frankly I'm surprised we've gotten to 2022 without people understanding this.

Kanos posted:

This is explicitly wrong - SEED absolutely does provide a visual illustration of people not being poo poo during that fight. Rau's argument with Kira is cut with scenes of a ZAFT officer trying to stop Patrick from firing GENESIS at Earth to the point where he gets shot for it, then the guy shoots Patrick to stop him while bleeding out on the ground. It's really hard to put forward a clearer example of "not everyone is a selfish shithead who deserves to die" than a guy literally dying for no other reason than to save a bunch of people he's never met in the name of mercy. You also get scenes of Athrun and Cagalli fighting their way into GENESIS at the time, and that's two people who should be on opposite sides of the race war working together, one of whom is betraying his father and nation to do so.

It doesn't happen in front of Kira and Rau's eyes but that stuff is happening in front of the viewer at the same time.

A good Kira argument would be putting punctuation points on these scenes. Rau says A, Kira says B, scene plays proving B, Rau says C, Kira says D, scene plays proving D... And so on.

NikkolasKing posted:

Lazier writers are stumped by "why is Goodness good?" so they just kinda default to "because it is."

I mean, you can use the same evolutionary psychology the evil guys like to use and point out that goodness, with its focus on community and mutual aid, is literally an evolutional advantage that took humans straight to the top of the natural order. It's trivial to dismantle the master's house with his own tools.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:18

ninjewtsu: Oct 9, 2012

Narzack posted:

I'm completely new to the whole shebang, but I know that Gundam Wing is the one that I really want to watch. There are so many different opinions out there, but what's a good viewing order? I'm starting with Mobile Suit Gundam, and I like it, so I'll finish it, but where should I go from there? I'm watching on a friend's server, and he has-

*MSG and three movies
*Char's Counter Attack
*After War Gundam X
*Gundamn Evolve
*Mobile Fighter G
*Mobile Suit 0080 War in the Pocket
*Mobile Suit 0083 Stardust Memory
*Mobile Suit Gundam MS Igloo
*Mobile Suit The 08th MS Team
*Gundam Wing
*Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
*Mobile Suit Victory Gundam
*Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
*Turn A Gundam

And then a bunch of Macross, but I'm [i]pretty[/] sure those are something completely separate.

What do you reckon, and are there any that I should outright skip?

you can watch wing without watching any of that, it's an entirely separate continuity. otherwise the best order is release order

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:20

Narzack: Sep 15, 2008

Thanks, bro. I guess the answer was simpler than i thought. Are there any total duds in that list or are they all dece?

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:32

Warmachine: Jan 30, 2012

ninjewtsu posted:

you can watch wing without watching any of that, it's an entirely separate continuity. otherwise the best order is release order

Echoing this, and if you wanted to skip something, skipping IGLOO: Apocalypse 0079 is a good choice. It's blatant fascist apologia. IGLOO 2: The Gravity Front is dodgy, but is the one that has some actual merit on showing the war from the perspective of Federation infantry and armored companies, which is something we haven't really seen before or since.

edit: I realize I left IGLOO: The Hidden One Year War in, which is part 1 of Apocalypse's fascist apologia, but it also has the episode featuring the giant Tokyo Drift Zaku Tank.

edit 2: I mean, just read the wiki entry on this dumb Maus analog https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/YMT-05_Hildolfr

Warmachine fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 16, 2022

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:33

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Igloo sucks and blatant Zeon apologia. Victory is batshit and someone did a livepost reaction of binging it in the thread not too long ago. 0083 has cool fights but incredibly stupid characters and it benefits the most from not thinking about it too hard. And it also has elements of Zeon apologia, mostly by how sympathetically it treats its main villain. ZZ goes from 80's sitcom anime to bad Gundam show to okay Gundam show and how much you like it mostly hinges on how big a fan you are of vintage anime comedy.

Zeta dials back from how trippy the original Gundam could get, expands the world a fair bit, but it feels more aimless between big operations and anything to do with cyber newtypes brings the whole thing down a couple notches. It does however have a lot of people smacking the poo poo out of each other so that's fun.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:49

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Narzack posted:

Thanks, bro. I guess the answer was simpler than i thought. Are there any total duds in that list or are they all dece?

Igloo and Victory are really the only duds on that list. 0083 is also pretty bad but it is held up by good music and animation quality. You've got a pretty wide spread of Gundam there that range from mostly decent to quite good, and War in the Pocket is one of the best in the franchise.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 20:58

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

ninjewtsu posted:

you can watch wing without watching any of that, it's an entirely separate continuity. otherwise the best order is release order

Evolve and igloo are the only skips. Ignore people badmouthing victory it's top percentage Gundam.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:15

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

Victory should be watched at least once.

I dont think it's one I ever wanna go back to, but I'm glad I got to experience whatever the gently caress that show was. Tomino was going through some stuff.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:19

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

yes, don't skip Victory

0083 is skippable imo, and i found 08th too boring to stick with but it's fairly well liked. i haven't seen anything made after SEED in your list so i can't offer opinions on Igloo etc.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:22

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

The animation in 0083 is so good that I think the shows worth a watch for that alone.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:27

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

i think that's entirely fair. plus the OP/EDs slap

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:29

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Yeah 0083 is just flat out the best looking Gundam has ever, and probably ever will look. Tied with F91. It also has some nice mechanical designs and some well done fights, even if the plot and characters are dogshit. And really the side cast ranges from good to decent. Synapse is highly underrated as a captain, it's only the main three that drags it into the gutter.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:33

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I'd say 0083 is tied with Unicorn for best looking. I like the look of the Unicorn mobile suits better than the 0083 ones (blasphemy against Shoji Kawamori, I know) but thr character designs for 0083 are top tier.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:35

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

That really depends on how you feel about traditional animation vs CG

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:41

RevolverDivider: Nov 12, 2016

Skip Victory Igloo and maybe 0083. 0083 is short and gorgeous while Victory is long and hideous

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:41

ninjewtsu: Oct 9, 2012

Definitely, incontestably watch:

*MSG and three movies
*Char's Counter Attack
*Mobile Fighter G
*Mobile Suit 0080 War in the Pocket
*Gundam Wing
*Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
*Turn A Gundam

Not must sees but probably worth considering
*After War Gundam X
*Mobile Suit 0083 Stardust Memory
*Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
*Mobile Suit Victory Gundam
*Mobile Suit The 08th MS Team

No one ever wants to say anything nice about this one without first listing its myriad flaws
*Mobile Suit Gundam MS Igloo

I'm not entirely sure what this is
*Gundamn Evolve

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:49

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Gundam Evolve is a series of CGI shorts they made for a couple of years. Not really worth seeking out

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:51

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Gaius Marius posted:

Gundam Evolve is a series of CGI shorts they made for a couple of years. Not really worth seeking out

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:51

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Gaius Marius posted:

Gundam Evolve is a series of CGI shorts they made for a couple of years. Not really worth seeking out

Some of them are kind of fun if you don't have to go out of your way to find them, like Quattro fighting Char and the ZZ short being a sequel to the series, but even the better ones have kinda dodgy CG.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 21:55

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Narzack posted:

I'm completely new to the whole shebang, but I know that Gundam Wing is the one that I really want to watch. There are so many different opinions out there, but what's a good viewing order? I'm starting with Mobile Suit Gundam, and I like it, so I'll finish it, but where should I go from there? I'm watching on a friend's server, and he has-

People already covered the rest but make sure you watch Turn-A Gundam at some point (preferably after seeing some other Gundam stuff), it's by far the best long-form/full-length Gundam show.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 22:09

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

That's g reco

# ? Feb 16, 2022 22:13

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

I can't get behind that

# ? Feb 16, 2022 22:16

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

maybe after the fifth movie drops

# ? Feb 16, 2022 22:28

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:01

Burns: May 10, 2008

You will deprive yourself of some of the best gundam music if you skip 0083.

# ? Feb 16, 2022 22:37

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Gundam Thread 5: That's no Anime, boy! No Anime!

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