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ZenMasterBullshit posted:She did nothing wrong. She was betrayed by Doman society twice over and sold into sexual slavery as many times.Hein might say he'll learn from how hosed up Doma was, but his second in command doesn't and won't. Yugiri and Gotestu are confronted by the man who was responsible for holding her in sexual slavery and their reaction was "Well there you go lad, we'll get you a better assignment." The fact that he was allowed to walk out alive from that scene proves the moral failings of the heads of Doman state. Nothing wrong, lmao.
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Apr 9, 2018 16:09
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The main purpose of the amnesia problem is, most likely, to get us to slow down long enough to acknowledge how Doman society is twisted and needs fixing, and that external foes cannot blind us to internal poisons. I'm not a FAN of amnesia as a plot device, but the issue remains that Tsuyu exists and is blameless. The guilty party, Yotsuyu, who is indeed HELLA GUILTY does not exist. I sincerely doubt Yotsuyu is going to survive Stormblood that being said. I doubt they're going to redeem BOTH antagonists.
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Apr 9, 2018 16:12
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Rhymenoserous posted:And a full set of tome gear will take several months to complete. Eureka left side and tone right is probably the fastest gear up route in the game that doesn’t cost millions of gil. I mean, to each their own, but my original point was to properly down-play the materia slots on the Anemos gear. They're relatively expensive to utilize properly and still don't compensate for the item level deficit compared to tome gear. There's a temptation to think that just because you can slot in like 200 substats per piece that they must be really good, but I'd just as soon leave them empty or stuff in garbage V's because you're going to be replacing the poo poo as soon as you can. Also I wouldn't necessarily clock in Eureka as fast just because you can poopsock it in a week. I was able to get in like 5 seasons of The Office before I got my first set. Every full set thereafter is another 1800-2000 Anemos crystals, which is several hours more. IIRC it would take about 11 weeks to get a full mendacity set and if you're only gearing up one class, just get tome stuff and normal mode raids drops.
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Apr 9, 2018 16:17
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Captain Oblivious posted:The main purpose of the amnesia problem is, most likely, to get us to slow down long enough to acknowledge how Doman society is twisted and needs fixing, and that external foes cannot blind us to internal poisons. I'm not a FAN of amnesia as a plot device, but the issue remains that Tsuyu exists and is blameless. The guilty party, Yotsuyu, who is indeed HELLA GUILTY does not exist. Maybe if they keep the lobotomized version around.
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Apr 9, 2018 16:27
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Captain Oblivious posted:The concept of a soul and a true self doesn't really make any sense in a setting that acknowledges how brain damage can fundamentally change a person. Ff14 "souls" are basically your aether which returns to the lifestream when you die isn't it? Then it gets mixed up, and later churned back out for another purpose.
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Apr 9, 2018 16:38
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Gruckles posted:Ff14 "souls" are basically your aether which returns to the lifestream when you die isn't it? Then it gets mixed up, and later churned back out for another purpose. Game’s not really clear on this. The ALC 50 quest has a long-dead person (briefly) brought back. Also, some people (Zenos and maybe the Warrior of Light) might have the strength? The power to transcend?
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Apr 9, 2018 16:55
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Gruckles posted:Ff14 "souls" are basically your aether which returns to the lifestream when you die isn't it? Then it gets mixed up, and later churned back out for another purpose. Basically yeah. Your soul is the specific aether that acts as your motivating force. As long as you retain your own aether (be a primal, or surf the lifestream like Y'shtola) you retain your form. So in terms of this discussion, Yotsuyu's "soul" is still there even if her mind is not. I'm inclined to believe a person is the sum of their memories rather than something intangible like a soul so I'd still say that punishing Tsuyu for Yotsuyu's actions would be pointless and cruel. It seems inevitable that she'll wake up though, because that's how this sort of plot shakes out. And when she remembers she's Yotsuyu again, punish away (and then fix the circumstances that created her in the first place.
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Apr 9, 2018 16:55
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pupuru posted:how much oGCD weaving does a standard Bard rotation have? I've heard conflicting opinions on how playable Bard is on an AU/high latency connection. Double Weaving wise, it's the opener mostly. Mage Ballad can get kind of hectic with trying to weave an empyreal in between dot ticks and not clip the next dot losing a bloodletter proc. Anything that you would double weave isn't animation heavy, and you might lose a pitch perfect use at the end of wanderer's. That being said of all the jobs clipping the gcd as a bard isn't the end of the world like it is for a lot of jobs.
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Apr 9, 2018 18:42
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pupuru posted:how much oGCD weaving does a standard Bard rotation have? I've heard conflicting opinions on how playable Bard is on an AU/high latency connection. Probably the most of any job outside of maybe ninja, and that is a big maybe.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:24
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Unlike Machinist or Ninja, Bard doesn't really need to double weave ever though, right?
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Apr 9, 2018 19:37
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HenryEx posted:I'm torn on BLM. The sub-50 AoE rotation (and solo target) feels so good once you get the shortened Fire/Bliz3 casts. But then you get to 50, and Flare has this huge 4 second cast time, and then you need to transpose after it, and stand around doing nothing for 2 and a half seconds to wait for your first mana tick, and then you're on 1/3 umbral so you don't even have the shortened Fire3 cast, and everything feels so long and inefficient and gross. It gets way better as you level, with Leylines/Triple Cast/Sharpcast. You will generally have Leylines or Triple or Swift up to help speed casts. And a forced T4 proc gives you something to do. Just spread your CDs across pulls to avoid that slow feeling. (it might not be top DPS that way but it makes it more fun during the whole run.) I don't bring BLM to sub 70 dungeons anymore. Edit also Flare goes away during single targets at 60 when you get f4 I am hella PEEVED fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Apr 9, 2018 |
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Apr 9, 2018 19:43
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Reiterpallasch posted:Unlike Machinist or Ninja, Bard doesn't really need to double weave ever though, right? Have you ever done BRD's opener Or hell, AoE Mage e: Barrage + Empyreal is always a double weave dude
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Apr 9, 2018 20:17
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Cythereal posted:And none of that excuses Yotsuyu. Yes, Doman society has lots of problems, but that doesn't excuse miss "Slaughtering kojin isn't fun like killing Domans is!" There's a certain point where comically tragic backstories stop justifying evil actions, and Yotsuyu's crossed it in my opinion. Doman society is wrong. So is she. What you seem to keep failing to understand is Yotsuyu is dead. Yotsuyu doesn't not exist anymore.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:43
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Mordiceius posted:What you seem to keep failing to understand is Yotsuyu is dead. Yotsuyu doesn't not exist anymore. Ah, but her soul does, you see, and we should punish her for what her soul did.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:46
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Mordiceius posted:What you seem to keep failing to understand is Yotsuyu is dead. Yotsuyu doesn't not exist anymore. Like hell she doesn't exist anymore. That's not how amnesia plots in video games work. Amnesia is never 100%.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:47
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Cythereal posted:Like hell she doesn't exist anymore. That's not how amnesia plots in video games work. Amnesia is never 100%. Well, until Yotsuyu's memory comes back, IF it comes back, Yotsuyu is dead. I think this whole story arc says a lot more about you than it does the characters.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:51
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Mordiceius posted:Well, until Yotsuyu's memory comes back, IF it comes back, Yotsuyu is dead. I think this whole story arc says a lot more about you than it does the characters. I'm okay with that. I think this whole subplot was bad writing and that there were better ways to examine how Doman society is hosed up in a lot of ways and grapple with the consequences of that.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:53
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I don't mind it honestly. It allows for a different style of exploration than just killing her off or having a repeat of Fordola. This conversation has already proved that some people in this thread have hosed up ethics. I think a lot of this can't be answered until we see where the resolution goes. I personally hope she never recovers from the amnesia and is this new personality forever as that raises more interesting questions and moral dilemmas
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Apr 9, 2018 20:59
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Cythereal posted:I'm okay with that. I think this whole subplot was bad writing and that there were better ways to examine how Doman society is hosed up in a lot of ways and grapple with the consequences of that. Nah bringing up Domas hisyorynod sexual slavery and treating its vulnerable citizens as commodities and trash is a good thing and Yotsuyu is the poster child of those gently caress ups.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:01
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If you've been paying attention to the MSQ from 2.5 to 4.2, you know for a fact that characters who you think are gone are going to come back. That's just how the story is written. The writers have pulled the same trick multiple times for multiple characters by this point. Until there is a literal grave you can visit, a 'dead' character can and probably will appear again in a patch or two. Which is the thing I dislike the most about the ending of 4.0/4.2. The writers have already used this twist before, when they brought back Nanamo, and the second twist, Yotsuyu regaining her memories, is so blatantly foreshadowed that it would be more surprising if that wasn't what the story did, but then it would more or less be the same character arc they are setting up for Fordola.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:03
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Arist posted:Have you ever done BRD's opener Hell, any Empyreal usage is a double weave a good majority of the time, either before it or after it. Most of the time you're not double weaving it is because you successfully fished your refulgant proc for barrage. And even then, it could just be a reversed order weaving depending on the timing. Skaw fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 9, 2018 |
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Apr 9, 2018 21:05
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Nah bringing up Domas hisyorynod sexual slavery and treating its vulnerable citizens as commodities and trash is a good thing and Yotsuyu is the poster child of those gently caress ups. Which does not excuse or justify her. Boo hoo, I'm sure her sob story is a lot of comfort to everyone she had tortured and murdered to amuse herself. I sympathize with her, but still want her dead.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:06
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Cythereal posted:Which does not excuse or justify her. Boo hoo, I'm sure her sob story is a lot of comfort to everyone she had tortured and murdered to amuse herself. I sympathize with her, but still want her dead. It is a little telling you re not even willingly to stop and consider the motivations of rape victim to try and justify the hosed up morality of a monarch and lords who are very clearly not learning their lessons. I'm not saying she's been 100% justified in her pursuits except in a joking post above, but to have any feeling more than pitying her seems a little weird tbh.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:09
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Cythereal posted:Which does not excuse or justify her. Boo hoo, I'm sure her sob story is a lot of comfort to everyone she had tortured and murdered to amuse herself. I sympathize with her, but still want her dead. You've already shown yourself to be the master of terrible opinions though.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:10
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For fucks sake the latest patch had a man that ran a slave brothel as one of the allegedly noble freedom fighters and the second in command and lead general just give him a pat on the back and say "Well at least you feel bad." And let him go. Doma isn't going to make good on its history with attitudes like that or attitudes like "No murder the woman with the mind of a child". Hein understands that it's why he spends a whole patch telling Yugiri calm down and doing just that.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:13
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If you murder murderers faster than murderers can murder, you’re still a murderer.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:16
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Die Sexmonster! posted:If you murder murderers faster than murderers can murder, you’re still a murderer. But a good one, like Superman or SEAL Team 6
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Apr 9, 2018 21:20
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Also most of the city state storylines have been about how loving malicious and or incompetent those in power are how they will gently caress up again and again or are actively bad actors oppressing people. How.many times do you have to be shown "And here's how this society gleefully abuses and harms the weak and the common" before you understand They are not going to do better? Even the scholasticate storyline which is on the surface about the reformation of class structures in post war Ishgard doesn't actually involve making Ishgard better for those stuck in the Brume it's about prejudice in a separate priestly middle class! gently caress Doma it's a poo poo nation run by fools and you should have no hope for Hein and his reforms.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:20
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Also Gridania is a racist apartheid state run by inhuman monsters and their 'uplifted' chosen and should also burn.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:For fucks sake the latest patch had a man that ran a slave brothel as one of the allegedly noble freedom fighters and the second in command and lead general just give him a pat on the back and say "Well at least you feel bad." And let him go. Doma isn't going to make good on its history with attitudes like that or attitudes like "No murder the woman with the mind of a child". Hein understands that it's why he spends a whole patch telling Yugiri calm down and doing just that. What about all the people who sold things or bought things from the patrons? They contributed. What about everyone who sold or bought things from those who sold or bought things from the patrons? Perhaps at this point the contribution becomes nebulous enough that they can be spared the death penalty, not least because at this point they may be outside of the range of Hien's sword. Alternatively, a different ethic of justice has to be applied to systemic problems. Hien can easily outlaw such institutions going forwards, and I expect he would. As for the particular guy there, it would be best if he were tried; but it is likely that what he did was not previously illegal, and retroactive laws tend to cause problems. However, the long term problems for Doma may not matter because they absolutely set up the release of a bioweapon that I expect will kill off most of Doma, or at least come near to it. If Yotsuyu is redeemed in some form I imagine it will be in stopping that poo poo from being deployed.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also most of the city state storylines have been about how loving malicious and or incompetent those in power are how they will gently caress up again and again or are actively bad actors oppressing people. How.many times do you have to be shown "And here's how this society gleefully abuses and harms the weak and the common" before you understand They are not going to do better? Even the scholasticate storyline which is on the surface about the reformation of class structures in post war Ishgard doesn't actually involve making Ishgard better for those stuck in the Brume it's about prejudice in a separate priestly middle class! gently caress Doma it's a poo poo nation run by fools and you should have no hope for Hein and his reforms. Seeing those themes as meta-commentary on 1.0 is making me smile.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:26
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And we have Merwlyb actively antagonizing both beast tribes at her door. Both the sahagin and kobolds got shoved out of their home lands and are routinely slaughtered without provocation and Merwylb's response is just "eh this is our turf". Y'shtola even calls her rear end out on it too which is satisfying.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:29
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that'll learn me to talk about bard
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Apr 9, 2018 21:31
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YoshiOfYellow posted:And we have Merwlyb actively antagonizing both beast tribes at her door. Both the sahagin and kobolds got shoved out of their home lands and are routinely slaughtered without provocation and Merwylb's response is just "eh this is our turf". Y'shtola even calls her rear end out on it too which is satisfying.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:32
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It is a little telling you re not even willingly to stop and consider the motivations of rape victim to try and justify the hosed up morality of a monarch and lords who are very clearly not learning their lessons. I'm not saying she's been 100% justified in her pursuits except in a joking post above, but to have any feeling more than pitying her seems a little weird tbh. Your pain does not excuse or justify inflicting pain on others. Yes, Yotsuyu's backstory is tragically. Comically so. She chose to become a mass murderer and torturer who killed because it was fun. I understand why Yotsuyu did what she did. But I don't forgive her. And FF14's writers are not nearly as original or clever as they seem to think they are. If I actually thought Yotsuyu would stay gone, I'd be on board with saying she shouldn't be held accountable for her crimes. But that's not how these plots work, so I have no sympathy for a plot this transparent. Likewise I knew Shithead Brat Boy from 4.2 wasn't actually a good guy, it was plainly obvious from the moment he showed up with how greasily polite he was. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Apr 9, 2018 |
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Apr 9, 2018 21:32
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Considering they're running Tsuyu's arc right alongside Fordola's more traditional redemption arc ("I did some really bad poo poo, now I'm going to try to make up for it even though it's hard"), I would be absolutely shocked if they played the amnesia bit completely straight and made Yotsuyu out to be this shining beacon of goodness in the end. I wasn't completely happy with Stormblood's story overall but I'd like to give the writers a bit more credit than expecting them to fall into the most obvious amnesia pitfall ever. I don't see the whole Doma plotline resolving itself in anything but tragedy, to contrast with how things seem to be going pretty okay over in Gyr Abania.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:35
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YoshiOfYellow posted:And we have Merwlyb actively antagonizing both beast tribes at her door. Both the sahagin and kobolds got shoved out of their home lands and are routinely slaughtered without provocation and Merwylb's response is just "eh this is our turf". Y'shtola even calls her rear end out on it too which is satisfying. Of all the leaders she's the one constantly dancing on the lip of a volcano. Almost all the entire population of her kingdom used to be pirates. She's basically running a kingdom of anarchists surrounded by beasts tribes who don't ask questions and kill or kidnap on sight. She doesn't have the luxury of the moral high-ground.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:38
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given that this is like the third time you've gotten into big, huge, aggressive arguments in this thread, against the thread, specifically about characterization i'm starting to think you might just have odd ideas of what constitutes an effective character arc. nobody wants to sit through the ffxiv nuremberg trials. i kinda think this whole yotsuyu plot is going to go nowhere interesting myself, but you know what? sometimes it's not about me. they haven't even finished writing the arc. maybe she's going to turn out to have been faking it all along and hien's totally going to murk her and then boy won't both of us look stupid.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:38
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Reiterpallasch posted:given that this is like the third time you've gotten into big, huge, aggressive arguments in this thread, against the thread, specifically about characterization i'm starting to think you might just have odd ideas of what constitutes an effective character arc. nobody wants to sit through the ffxiv nuremberg trials.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:40
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me, halfway through crime and punishment: i cant believe raskolnikov murdered someone and the book's making him out to be the hero instead of sending him to prison, i'm going to get into a dumb fight on the internet about it instead of finishing the book
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Apr 9, 2018 21:41
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