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computer parts posted:What about Jefferson or Van Buren? Look, Burr lost and it's time your Burrites admit it.
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Oct 17, 2013 11:34
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Say what you will for the American system of government, but at least we figured out pretty quickly that having a President and a Vice President from opposing parties was a terrible idea. (Speaking of how American politics always being about trolling people, the Federalists specifically made it legal to criticize the Vice President while making it a federal crime to criticize the president or Congress. For all the hemming and hawing about how the Founding Fathers gave us a sacrosanct Constitution, they sure did gently caress everything up a couple times.)
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Oct 17, 2013 12:22
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FadingChord posted:(Speaking of how American politics always being about trolling people, the Federalists specifically made it legal to criticize the Vice President while making it a federal crime to criticize the president or Congress. For all the hemming and hawing about how the Founding Fathers gave us a sacrosanct Constitution, they sure did gently caress everything up a couple times.)
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Oct 17, 2013 12:32
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It is okay. Jefferson got back at the Federalists by secretly penning the Kentucky Resolution, which caused their support to crumble and gave us the Nullification Crisis.
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Oct 17, 2013 14:42
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Lycus posted:Was that bill entitled the "Haha, gently caress You, Jefferson Act"? Alien and Sedition Acts, and neither of them lasted real long because they were basically an affront to the First Amendment--on which the ink was barely dry at that point.
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Oct 17, 2013 14:50
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In which, I am slowly becoming less unhappy about Intrade's death over time:
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Oct 19, 2013 16:38
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Can you explain those odds? I want to laugh at half the list of unelectable idiots, but I'm too confused by the math.
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Oct 19, 2013 17:25
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I met Evan Bayh at an event the other day. His personality is just as bland as his politics.
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Oct 19, 2013 17:32
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Can you explain those odds? They're not odds, they're my P&L after about a couple of months' worth of bets. In other words, if X gets the nom I get the number next to X's name.
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Oct 19, 2013 18:02
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What service are you using now Adar? I miss Intrade too 
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Oct 20, 2013 00:16
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Betfair only has a handful of contracts, but the ones it does have have more action per capita than Intrade would've right now.
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Oct 20, 2013 00:20
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Schweitzer is talking like he may have a go at it.quote:Add another name to the short list of Democrats seriously considering a run for president in 2016. He doesn't have much of a chance, but I hope he does anyway. 
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Oct 20, 2013 01:09
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Didn't see this mentioned here yet. Apparently Christie is going to fold on gay marriage in NJ, which provides a lot of ammo for opponents should he decide to run for POTUS. As much as I dislike Christie, I do have to admit that he seems to pretty readily put doing the right thing ahead of furthering any future political aspirations. If he's not terribly interested in pandering to the far-right elements of the GOP (which are increasingly becoming a bigger portion of the party as moderates abandon ship), then I have to wonder if 2016 is becoming an ever less-appealing prospect in his eyes.
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Oct 20, 2013 02:18
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Yeah the right thing, but only after appealing it then getting completely shut down.
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Oct 20, 2013 02:25
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:Didn't see this mentioned here yet. Apparently Christie is going to fold on gay marriage in NJ, which provides a lot of ammo for opponents should he decide to run for POTUS. I'm pretty sure he was furthering his future political aspirations when he shut down that tunnel project for no reason just to stick it to the LIBERALS and their infrastructure.
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Oct 20, 2013 02:33
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:Didn't see this mentioned here yet. Apparently Christie is going to fold on gay marriage in NJ, which provides a lot of ammo for opponents should he decide to run for POTUS. If Christie is the nominee, it won't be because he won the primary from the right and by 2016 (hell, today) being anti gay marriage is a liability in the general election.
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Oct 20, 2013 03:49
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Christie's not really "folding" so much as complying with a state supreme court injunction, which I think nearly all Republican governors would do. As far as I'm aware, the state has not withdrawn their appeal of the various holdings that will be heard in Januaryish.
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Oct 20, 2013 03:54
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It is easy, with so much of the GOP being truly monstrous, to see Christie merely being an rear end in a top hat as gentlemanly behaviour. It is kind of scary how even Tea Party farce is still shifting the Overton window further to the right.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:29
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ReV VAdAUL posted:It is easy, with so much of the GOP being truly monstrous, to see Christie merely being an rear end in a top hat as gentlemanly behaviour. It is kind of scary how even Tea Party farce is still shifting the Overton window further to the right. For the GOP, maybe. The Overton window as a whole is now moving left and has been for a couple of years now. To wit, we just backed out of a war in the Middle East because nobody important in either party thought it was a good idea and are pretty firmly committed to dronin' it up forever, which is substantially more technocratic-leftish than sending in the Marines.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:41
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I dunno, the debt ceiling / shutdown fight was, I believe, over a more austere budget than Ryan's and Obama has consistently been open to very right wing grand bargains. Also while I think it will be short term the need for any port in a storm to avert default led even posters here to view moderate GOPers somewhat favourably simply because they weren't actively trying to destroy the republic. If the Tea Party keep it up maybe things like Christie simply accepting defeat on a policy rather then burning everything down TP style will garner moderate GOPers positive feelings from liberals. Then again Romney got viewed as fairly moderate because he had to go along with a veto proof Dem legislature in MA so maybe I'm just being too pessimistic.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:53
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Adar posted:For the GOP, maybe. The Overton window as a whole is now moving left and has been for a couple of years now. Yeah, anyone who thinks we're sliding backward on all fronts should get a load of the history of Ellen. http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-episode-that-liberatedthen-destroyedellen,101551/ Ellen coming out got a parental guidance warning preceding her show on every episode thereafter and ultimately killed it. Today, gay sitcoms are considered trite and the social conservative wing of the GOP has never been weaker.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:56
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ReV VAdAUL posted:I dunno, the debt ceiling / shutdown fight was, I believe, over a more austere budget than Ryan's and Obama has consistently been open to very right wing grand bargains. The top line budget numbers are the last thing that matters worth a drat that's still Overtoned right, and that will change as soon as the economy booms for a year or so and the Tea Party immediately stops paying attention to it. Foreign policy has almost 180'd - John McCain is literally the Last Neocon - and social issues are not even close.
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Oct 20, 2013 13:22
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Adar posted:For the GOP, maybe. The Overton window as a whole is now moving left and has been for a couple of years now.
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Oct 20, 2013 14:15
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Ravenfood posted:the Democrats immediately offered to go to a budget roughly analogous with the Ryan plan Any perceived shifting is probably hyperbole.
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Oct 20, 2013 14:23
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Ravenfood posted:On the other hand, at the start of the whole shutdown issue, the Democrats immediately offered to go to a budget roughly analogous with the Ryan plan and were denied. Socially, on most issues, we're shifting left. Financially, I think we're shifting right. Yo buddy, when a proposal to the right is offered and is denied, that generally indicates it's outside of the acceptable window.
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Oct 20, 2013 19:27
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We have been shifting rightward financially, but the Tea Party going full-suicide might stop that movement in its tracks by ruining any effective Republican strategy for leveraging spending cuts from the Democrats. There are signs here and there of a liberal economics resurgence, the NYC mayoral race being the most prominent.
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Oct 20, 2013 21:50
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Install Windows posted:Yo buddy, when a proposal to the right is offered and is denied, that generally indicates it's outside of the acceptable window.
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Oct 20, 2013 23:18
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Ravenfood posted:Yes, because it wasn't far enough to the right. The Dems offered a Ryan-level budget and it wasn't conservative enough. I think that's indicative of a rightward financial shift, both in the offering and in the rejecting. if you let Republicans' acceptance of a policy determine how right the country as a whole has shifted, surprisingly you'll fine it is a large amount!
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Oct 20, 2013 23:23
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Ravenfood posted:Yes, because it wasn't far enough to the right. The Dems offered a Ryan-level budget and it wasn't conservative enough. I think that's indicative of a rightward financial shift, both in the offering and in the rejecting. That short CR was low but it's setting up the fight on the BCA. By continuing 13 levels but expiring before 14 BCA cuts trigger it gives Democrats a stronger negotiating position than longer CR that would get auto cut by the BCA. Reid and Democrats are pretty determined to axe the BCA and increase domestic spending.
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Oct 21, 2013 00:20
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Ravenfood posted:On the other hand, at the start of the whole shutdown issue, the Democrats immediately offered to go to a budget roughly analogous with the Ryan plan and were denied. Socially, on most issues, we're shifting left. Financially, I think we're shifting right.  Seriously now, one data point means about as much as the "recovery" of Arctic sea ice that was trumpeted a few months back. We won't know whether the economic trend is left, right or center until there's a trend to observe.
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Oct 21, 2013 05:29
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:
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Oct 21, 2013 05:44
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Urban Space Cowboy posted:You mean the future trend really is "socially liberal, fiscally conservative"? Nooooooo The fallacy that you can be these things simultaneously is pretty awful. If society really is going in that direction, then we're in trouble.
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Oct 21, 2013 14:37
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tadashi posted:The fallacy that you can be these things simultaneously is pretty awful. If society really is going in that direction, then we're in trouble. The thing is, that viewpoint only exists in light of an external threat (i.e., social conservatives). Once basically everyone subscribes to that viewpoint people will revolt from it like what normally happens. (and on a side note, how many of these "socially liberal fiscally conservative" people are non-white? If anything this seems like par the course)
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Oct 21, 2013 15:05
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Ravenfood posted:Yes, because it wasn't far enough to the right. The Dems offered a Ryan-level budget and it wasn't conservative enough. I think that's indicative of a rightward financial shift, both in the offering and in the rejecting. Except the thing that actually got accepted in the end was not farther to the right , it was merely the status quo. What this indicates is that window of acceptability didn't move at all.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:10
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tadashi posted:The fallacy that you can be these things simultaneously is pretty awful. If society really is going in that direction, then we're in trouble. I don't know how true a self identification it is though. I know that I claimed to be fiscally conservative for quite a while longer than I was due to a misunderstanding of what the label actually meant. I think most people think it just means being fiscally responsible, and have varying definitions of what is responsible.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:38
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Yeah, anyone who thinks we're sliding backward on all fronts should get a load of the history of Ellen. Man speaking of gay TV in the 90's my wife and I watched an episode of Deep Space Nine where Daxx had a lesbian relationship with another Trill with a full makeout session and everything. I bet that caused a bit of an outrage.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:52
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Orange_Lazarus posted:Man speaking of gay TV in the 90's my wife and I watched an episode of Deep Space Nine where Daxx had a lesbian relationship with another Trill with a full makeout session and everything. I bet that caused a bit of an outrage. Yep: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rejoined_%28episode%29#Reception
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Oct 21, 2013 17:48
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Orange_Lazarus posted:Man speaking of gay TV in the 90's my wife and I watched an episode of Deep Space Nine where Daxx had a lesbian relationship with another Trill with a full makeout session and everything. I bet that caused a bit of an outrage. Even better was that she did it based on her memories of when she was a man, so go ahead and toss transgender issues in there as well!
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Oct 22, 2013 05:15
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computer parts posted:if you let Republicans' acceptance of a policy determine how right the country as a whole has shifted, surprisingly you'll fine it is a large amount! Fortunately it's not up to us forums posters what's acceptable--but unfortunately it is up to the Democrats and they've taken you on your word! 
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Oct 22, 2013 09:34
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/can-rand-paul-learn-to-tell-the-truth/280701/ Can Rand Paul Learn to Tell the Truth? The Kentucky senator and presidential hopeful has charisma, fundraising power, and new ideas. Now if can only resolve his sticky habit for bending the facts. quote:Paul said someone making $30,000 a year would not be able to afford insurance under the new law "if it's going to cover pregnancy to sex change to lap dancer." The administration has said plainly that policies do not have to cover sex-change surgery. As for lap dancing, well, that apparently was Paul's imagination going somewhere unusual. Interesting look into his plans and habits.
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Oct 22, 2013 14:35
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