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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, and I think that contributes to the worldbuilding just as much as a unified building world. And G-Reco has that too. Also, all the nations/factions have their own little pieces of visual storytelling, like the Amerians' ball cockpits (which become smaller and flatter in their more advanced and modern designs) and the Capital Army's fondness for leg-mounted weaponry (so they can make use of all of their limbs in aerial combat).
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Feb 28, 2022 01:31
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Darth Walrus posted:Also, all the nations/factions have their own little pieces of visual storytelling, like the Amerians' ball cockpits (which become smaller and flatter in their more advanced and modern designs) and the Capital Army's fondness for leg-mounted weaponry (so they can make use of all of their limbs in aerial combat). Yeah, or how the Towasanga mecha have clear Zanscare inspirations and a mask theming. The Elmore is a Jahannam head beneath a mask and the Neodu is a Gundam head beneath a mask.  Which is a fantastic bit of visual storytelling. Here's some unknown Gundam-style unit which effectively is being covered up by something more Zanscarian. It's some other unit giving a Towasanga makeover that leaves it totally unrecognizable.
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Feb 28, 2022 01:40
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Another neat thing is that you can tell a faction's technology level by the kind of beam weaponry it uses. The Amerians clearly seem to be quite new to the concept - they still use a few physical melee weapons (like the Grimoire's knife), and everything else - the Space Jahannam's axe, the Hecate's chainsaw-glaive, and the ubiquitous beam whips - is a physical weapon edged or wrapped in a mega-particle field. The Capital Army, meanwhile, has 'proper' beam sabers as standard issue, and can mount more and better-performing beam guns on their suits. They're basically at a Zeta Gundam tech level. Towasanga is about the same, but a little more refined, with some examples of incredibly advanced Venusian tech like the Gaitrash's beam curtain and the G-Self's photon armour. Then there's the Venus Globe, and more specifically the G-IT Labs, whose Minovsky tech is extravagantly batshit insanity all day every day.
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Feb 28, 2022 01:54
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I actually missed some of that shorthand, and having it pointed out makes me appreciate G-Reco's designs more than I did. Seeing more of a connected design language helps make the Mobile Suits feel like more than just individual neat mechs. It's not enough to make me think of it as the top tier, let alone putting it miles above any other series, but it does elevate them as part of an interesting-but-messy series.
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Feb 28, 2022 04:29
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Just watched that first Thunderbolt movie, since Gundaminfo put it up a few days back. It ruled. Super cool and really got that 'horrors of war' thing down well. The tech seems a bit more advanced than what was actually available during the one-year war, but maybe the beams were that powerful and I'm just forgetting.
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Feb 28, 2022 08:23
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Just watched that first Thunderbolt movie, since Gundaminfo put it up a few days back. It ruled. Super cool and really got that 'horrors of war' thing down well. The tech seems a bit more advanced than what was actually available during the one-year war, but maybe the beams were that powerful and I'm just forgetting. Apsalus could punch through a mountain, so beam power isn't a big issue. Everything else gets a bit messier.
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Feb 28, 2022 10:35
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chiasaur11 posted:Apsalus could punch through a mountain, so beam power isn't a big issue. Everything else gets a bit messier. look, nobody else could've wired three dom reactors together like that okay
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Feb 28, 2022 10:58
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with 5 or so linked dom reactors you could replace the sun.
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Feb 28, 2022 10:59
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I think the information provided to us by the setting tells us that dirt and rock and related materials are somehow especially vulnerable to charged megaparticles in a way they are not vulnerable to conventional kinetic or explosive payloads. Bandai put the 0083 movie up too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKInoqrgZw Assepoester fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 28, 2022 |
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Feb 28, 2022 11:14
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Just watched that first Thunderbolt movie, since Gundaminfo put it up a few days back. It ruled. Super cool and really got that 'horrors of war' thing down well. The tech seems a bit more advanced than what was actually available during the one-year war, but maybe the beams were that powerful and I'm just forgetting. Thunderbolt has pretty explicitly come out and said it's an AU UC story because the author has no interest trying to keep it consistent with later UC entries, but honestly the power of the beams is about accurate to what they could be like even if Thunderbolt was trying to keep it consistent. As Chiasaur said, the iffy stuff is literally everything else.
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Feb 28, 2022 20:50
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The original Mobile Suit Gundam had plenty of large and powerful beam weapons, and the Big Guns (yes, that is their official name) that the Living Dead use are literally just stripped-down battleship guns looted from the surrounding wreckage and mounted on tripods. Nothing remotely outlandish about that.
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Feb 28, 2022 20:57
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Yeah the UC had very powerful beam weapons even early on, they were just huge and power hungry. The Gundam was a big deal because it offered a battleship-strength beam in handheld form. (Though the beam was smaller)
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Feb 28, 2022 21:28
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I think one of the key differences is that Thunderbolt animates it's huge fuckoff beam weapons like SEED does, in a very fancy way, as giant angry firehoses of CG noise with a strong core and lots of surrounding mini streams, it's very out of place with how beam weapons look in 0079 or 08th MS or 0083 and such. Also the sheer perponderance of beam usage in December Sky (yeah sure have dual beams why not) feels very SEED-like. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Feb 28, 2022 23:30
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The United States posted:I think one of the key differences is that Thunderbolt animates it's huge fuckoff beam weapons like SEED does, in a very fancy way, as giant angry firehoses of CG noise with a strong core and lots of surrounding mini streams, it's very out of place with how beam weapons look in 0079 or 08th MS or 0083 and such. There are plenty of UC beams that look like that in side material. Beams are not remotely exclusively SEED territory and the early UC is *littered* with implausible powerful and prolific bean weapons. It depends largely on the animation style more than anything
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Feb 28, 2022 23:42
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Omnicrom posted:Thunderbolt has pretty explicitly come out and said it's an AU UC story because the author has no interest trying to keep it consistent with later UC entries, but honestly the power of the beams is about accurate to what they could be like even if Thunderbolt was trying to keep it consistent. As Chiasaur said, the iffy stuff is literally everything else. Honestly even then it wouldn't be that hard to reconcile with regular UC with a bit of creative usage of handwaving and retcons
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Feb 28, 2022 23:55
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With how powerful beam weapons got in UC and with their push for miniaturized technology it's a wonder that their warships are still vulnerable to suit attacks. You'd think they could at least mount an I-Field generator on them.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:59
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ImpAtom posted:There are plenty of UC beams that look like that in side material. Beams are not remotely exclusively SEED territory and the early UC is *littered* with implausible powerful and prolific bean weapons.   Here's the mounted beam sniper too:  Arc Hammer posted:With how powerful beam weapons got in UC and with their push for miniaturized technology it's a wonder that their warships are still vulnerable to suit attacks. You'd think they could at least mount an I-Field generator on them. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Mar 1, 2022 00:26
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UC battleships never really regained dominance after the one year war since mobile suit carrier fleets became the standard for big warships. Gundam shows run on the idea that mobile suits are the accepted form of warfare with technological advancements focused on improving said method of warfare. A bigger suit, a smaller suit, a stronger suit, a technology designed to combat psychics piloting the suit. But warfare itself remains much the same across Gundam shows in how mobile suits are applied on the battlefield. They're a hybrid between jet, tank, artillery and infantryman given their loadouts. On occasion you'll see shows challenge the use of mobile suits by presenting a potential paradigm shift. The Mobile Dolls of Wing or the Mobile Armors of IBO showing a move towards automated drone warfare. I'd be really interested to watch a show that focuses on the ways people fight completely counter to mobile suit combat. Rather than "we need suits to fight suits" it's "we don't have suits, how to we fight back?" leading to an exploration of how you might go about changing the nature of warfare away from mobile suit dominance. Modern day armies have had to learn harsh lessons about the shortcomings of their method of battle in the age of asymmetrical warfare. A show where a Gundam is the equivalent of a predator drone and grunt suits are Abrams tanks fighting an occupation war against desperate people with manpads and jeeps could be really compelling.
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Mar 1, 2022 01:02
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The best part of thunderbolt is the soundtrack
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Mar 1, 2022 01:32
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The United States posted:
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Mar 1, 2022 02:13
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tsob posted:They drew the line at Monsha though. That said, Jerid was one of the first people to pilot a Gundam. I believe at this point there were canonically over 100 Gundams before the Mk2.
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Mar 1, 2022 02:21
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i figure i-fields don't scale up to that size very well.
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Mar 1, 2022 02:21
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i figure i-fields don't scale up to that size very well. But the Big Zam
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Mar 1, 2022 02:22
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even a very large zam is smaller than a battleship.
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Mar 1, 2022 02:24
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Looking at the wiki it's height is a third the length of a salamis. Even if the i field is at maximum defensive radius then you could just put three on the ship. Or just put one in a position where it could cover the bridge
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Mar 1, 2022 02:25
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The General Revil deploys some sort of anti-beam countermeasure to buy some time in Unicorn.
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Mar 1, 2022 02:35
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There are anti-beam chaff fields in the UC but they seem to only be relevant in ship to ship/long distance warfare. CE has something similar with the Archangel's Anti-Beam Depth Charges which spread a cloud of beam-weakening particles. The issue is that it only really protects the carrier from long range sniping and anything that gets close enough will gently caress you up.
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Mar 1, 2022 02:41
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Arc Hammer posted:Rather than "we need suits to fight suits" it's "we don't have suits, how to we fight back?" leading to an exploration of how you might go about changing the nature of warfare away from mobile suit dominance. It's by no means a big part of 00, but I do like seeing them show that a reasonably effective way of defeating mobile suits is just a human-held RPG. Which, aside from just being a way they show the existence of child soldiers in that setting, does make sense; mobile suits clearly aren't good at hitting small targets and have some large structural weak points, one guy with a rocket launcher can basically put one out of action if he lands his shot.
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Mar 1, 2022 03:27
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deploying a battleship scale I-field is all well and good until people start shooting you with nuclear bazookas and anti-ship rifles loaded with HEAT shells, neither of which is going to be stopped by an I-Field.
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Mar 1, 2022 03:43
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:The best part of thunderbolt is the soundtrack Which is a huge compliment to said soundtrack considering how good the rest of Thunderbolt is. Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Mar 1, 2022 03:48
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jerid was inarguably a better pilot than monsha
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Mar 1, 2022 04:28
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jerid managed to survive kamille for a long time. he's fundamentally worthless in every other regard, but the dude could pilot.
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Mar 1, 2022 04:30
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:jerid managed to survive kamille for a long time. he's fundamentally worthless in every other regard, but the dude could pilot. He managed to survive a run-in with Amuro. Jerid's a full on cockroach of a pilot.
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Mar 1, 2022 04:34
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My Gundam marathon continues. I've now watched War in the Pocket. Really great intro, excellent action scene there. Kampfer was cool for all five minutes it was in the show. Bernard is a real bro. Christina is a real bro. Really strong last episode, great finish. But Al sucks a lot and so the middle really drags. It also felt pretty dated, these days the action scenes would absolutely have been done from a low to the ground, looking up at the suits angle to make it seem bigger and scarier. I did like that Al's war trauma was 'just' losing a cool older brother figure and having his neighbor friend move away. Gundam often tends to go way too hard on the horrors of war. Honestly wishing I would have watched this before watching Hathaway and Thunderbolt, I think my opinion would be much higher since those both get into the weeds of war bad as well. Next up, I'll be tuning into 0083.
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Mar 1, 2022 06:58
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Gaius Marius posted:Looking at the wiki it's height is a third the length of a salamis. Even if the i field is at maximum defensive radius then you could just put three on the ship. This might protect the ship from counterbattery fire but it will do nothing against a determined mobile suit attack; even if the mobile suits don't have kinetics to use(which is extremely unlikely, since up through at least CCA most suits had secondary grenades etc), they can pretty much just carve you like a pumpkin if your own defensive screen fails. I-Fields themselves are usually depicted as being dangerously huge power hogs that also have finnicky overheating and maintenance issues, to boot, which is why the only things that have them even all the way into Victory are one-off wunderwaffen mobile armors and very occasionally as an add-on part to a high end mobile suit.
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Mar 1, 2022 09:34
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Al rules actually
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Mar 1, 2022 17:28
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Al rules actually This is now the worst take in the thread.
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Mar 1, 2022 20:13
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Al is an annoying little poo poo but I can't help but like him since the whole point of the story is how he was forced to grow up in a downright horrific situation. He goes from ignorant of the cost of war to being the only person among his friends who truly grasps just how awful it feels to lose someone and have your whole world torn apart. I feel for the kid.
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Mar 1, 2022 20:22
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0080 would be way better without Al, written around Bernie and Chris' passengers in the night narrative.
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Mar 1, 2022 20:35
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It would be much worse because one of its most effective points was this small child being the only one aware of the true horror of the situation while people around him treated it as just a neat game. Chris turning Bernie into hamburger isn't as effective if nobody knows and having her know Bernie is in there drastically changes things.
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Mar 1, 2022 20:45
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