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BisbyWorl posted:Zeon dropped a colony to try and take out the Fed HQ, it got redirected to Australia. Haman also really, really didn't like Ireland
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Mar 30, 2022 16:41
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I always thought the Dublin colony drop was really lethargic compared to the depictions of the Sydney drop.
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Mar 30, 2022 17:45
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IMO the dublin drop works better in the context of ZZ, where it’s a rolling event over the course of an episode and a half as Dublin becomes hell on earth. It’s also, iirc, more accurate to what a colony drop would “actually” be like - a deorbited colony may be huge but it generally isn’t going to have the interplanetary velocities of a dino-killing meteor to just cause a massive all-obliterating explosion on touchdown, the ZZ style rolling disaster is a bit more what you’d expect from a large but slow moving mass impact.
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Mar 30, 2022 17:54
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And imagine if Haman had moved the drop one island over she could've died a hero instead of a villain.
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Mar 30, 2022 18:40
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That Haman, always Dublin down.
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Mar 30, 2022 18:43
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Cleretic posted:Basically, UC politics at this point are so detailed and complicated that it's honestly kind of interesting to hear from someone whose entry point is Thunderbolt, because Thunderbolt might be the series most steeped in the consideration of that conflict. Watching Thunderbolt first is like walking into a masters-level class while looking for the 101 course. no they only have the bad version
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Mar 30, 2022 18:47
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the origin and unicorn tv show cuts are dumb because they're just plain a bad viewing experience, but what makes them actively terrible is that they really muddle the waters when you tell someone to watch the origin/unicorn. beyond the time is a slick as hell op animation though so the origin tv cut gets a pass just for that for april fools i want a thunderbolt tv cut announcement
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Mar 30, 2022 18:55
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For April Fools I want Thunderbolt Season 3 rather than leaving it DOA for another five years.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:07
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I want thunderbolt s3 to actually happem so I would rather it wasn't an april fools prank Sunrise hasn't ever spoken one way or the other on any future thunderbolt plans have they? I know there's plenty of manga material, and bandit flower ending partway into a larger story sucks dick if there's never going to be a follow up.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:13
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ninjewtsu posted:I want thunderbolt s3 to actually happem so I would rather it wasn't an april fools prank The manga material is loving insane, btw. The volcano battle or the Anaheim break-in, if animated to the same standard as the previous Thunderbolt OVAs, would be some of the best action sequences in anime of all time.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:15
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Gentlemen. The bag in front of you contains half a million dollars. You will receive an additional half million for each Gundam manhole cover you bring me. There will be a one million dollar bonus when you have brought me all three. Do not fail me.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:43
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Gripweed posted:Gentlemen. The bag in front of you contains half a million dollars. You will receive an additional half million for each Gundam manhole cover you bring me. There will be a one million dollar bonus when you have brought me all three. Do not fail me. What if I'd rather have the manhole cover?
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Mar 30, 2022 19:48
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ImpAtom posted:What if I'd rather have the manhole cover? My man Samson will be accompanying you to assist you during the operation and to ensure that there are no... mistakes.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:51
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ManSedan posted:I always thought the Dublin colony drop was really lethargic compared to the depictions of the Sydney drop. No-one really brings it up later, either. Operation British, everyone cares. Dublin Drop? Nothing doing.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:02
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chiasaur11 posted:No-one really brings it up later, either. Operation British, everyone cares. Dublin Drop? Nothing doing. It is interesting how only English-speaking nations got dropped on.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:20
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Nessus posted:C. really kind of an arbitrary location, was that like the best Haman could do for some reason? I’m pretty sure it was where most of the Federation’s higher ups were.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:31
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The dublin drop is the culmination of an arc where the argama goes to Dublin to try and plead with the federation leadership, who have holed up in a mansion in the city not giving a poo poo. Haman choosing that as her target is like the perfect opposite of arbitrary, lol
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Mar 30, 2022 21:38
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chiasaur11 posted:No-one really brings it up later, either. Operation British, everyone cares. Dublin Drop? Nothing doing. Tomino himself barely brought up any of Zeon's atrocities in any of his subsequent UC works, to be fair. They were mostly set-dressing for him, as far as I can see. There to set up why things were the way they were, but not actually meant to be an important element of the story in most cases. It's other writers and productions like Unicorn that keep going back to talk about the One Year War; mostly the colony drop, rather than the eradication of 100+ colonies during the destruction of the Sides, but since most of those are centered on the Principality and the Zabis, it's not really much of a shock it's the Isle Iffish drop they keep coming back too. Even Unicorn, which features characters prominent in ZZ Gundam, is mostly about the Principality, and ties those characters to the One Year War and not Axis Zeon. It's also just a lot easier for Gundam productions, starting with 0079 itself, to make Zeon characters sympathetic when none of them relate to Zeon's atrocities in the slightest. I don't think a single Gundam work ever, not even manga so far as I know, actually feature the perspective of any Zeon soldiers who participated in the worst moments of the One Week Battle. The single time anything has come close, with Cima, is relegated to an audio drama where she's tricked into doing it, so they can play for sympathy points about how she's just a pawn of evil people higher up the chain. Like, yeah, UC's politics are pretty filled out compared to a lot of fictional settings, but UC also generally just ignores or side steps a lot of the stuff initially set up and that's kind of inconvenient to talk about anymore after the fact. If you didn't get the narrator talking about the destruction of the Sides in 0079 then you'd really be hard placed to say it had happened at all looking at any other part of UC, because nothing in the entire rest of the setting really seems to actually reflect that half the human population died in a matter of days due to deliberate attacks that almost completely destroyed multiple, what are basically, nations. A handful of years later, by the time of Zeta, everything is back at a fairly normal status quo in terms of population and colony numbers from what we see of the setting. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Mar 30, 2022 |
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Mar 30, 2022 22:42
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There's at least one PS2 game where you play a Zaku pilot escorting Island Iffish during the colony drop.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 30, 2022 |
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Mar 30, 2022 22:49
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Zeon’s initial position of the colonies being oppressed by the Earth Federation really falls apart when you look at how much worse the Zeon treated their fellow colonists. Like I don’t care how much gravity weighs down your soul, there’s no justification for Zeon’s atrocities.
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Mar 30, 2022 22:53
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Arc Hammer posted:There's at least one PS2 game where you play a Zaku pilot escorting Island Iffish during the colony drop. Do you actually get any insight from him on his actions, out of interest? Or is it just a nameless, faceless character you inhabit during a mission?
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Mar 30, 2022 22:56
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It is interesting how Tomino treats world shattering events as set dressing for the actual stories he wants to tell in Gundam, like you said. And that leads to people being surprised that one of the most hideous act of mass murder in the entire franchise is relegated to the opening narration. I kind of respect his tenacity for not dwelling on the One Year War and telling stories about persistence in the face of adversity. From an outside perspective a viewer can point to the OYW as the defining event of thr Universal Century, a mortal wound that sets in motion the slow collapse of human civilization over the centuries. Everything that follows comes as a direct sequence of consequences threading back to that one inciting moment in time. But for Tomino, it's a war that happened. A bad war, a generation defining war, certainly. But it's not the end of the world, and his young protagonists continue to fight and struggle for a better future regardless of any evidence that longterm human existence may not still be possible. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 30, 2022 |
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Mar 30, 2022 23:04
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tsob posted:Do you actually get any insight from him on his actions, out of interest? Or is it just a nameless, faceless character you inhabit during a mission? It's the main player character for the Zeon campaign. He and his squadmates (including their CO) have doubts about the morality of the mission, but they don't feel safe expressing them due to, well, being part of Zeon's army, and also the lead is under suspicion since his father is a Federation soldier. (His unit is basically the guys who Zeon doesn't care if they live or die.) There seemed to be a kind of narrative focus around needing to forgive the sins of the past if you're going to survive, with the Zeon lead's love interest being a tragic cyber-newtype who killed his squad, the Federation protagonist being a convict forced to go all Spare Squadron during the One Year War, and the ending being a reconciliation between people who hated each other, but without seeing it in detail, it's hard to tell how well it's handled, especially because the game part of the game is apparently garbage. I've heard "Zeon Apologism!" for enough Gundam material that I can't say how accurate the charge is without watching it. On the one end, there's Unicorn's anime and it's "The Federation is bad, Zeon is worse, but they're both made up of normal human beings tragically wrapped in a cycle of violence and revenge" themes, and on the other there's... IGLOO. Without seeing more, I can't say where Missing Link falls.
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Mar 30, 2022 23:04
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What UC show has the highest number of Heinously Warcrimes? Zeta has an attempted lunar colony drop and then a colony laser obliterating the Titans fleet, ZZ has the aforementioned Dublin drop, but Victory…. Victory has, to my recollection, Uso lasering a whole fleet, then the Motorad fleet slowly flattening Europe (?), mobile suit reactor detonations as tactical weapons, and finally a space weapon descended to earth and crashed before being newtyped back into space, with thousands of unconscious people aboard. If not UC I think X wins, but it’s not onscreen.
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Mar 30, 2022 23:55
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Theass colony drop is on screen for a bit of x
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Mar 31, 2022 00:00
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ManSedan posted:What UC show has the highest number of Heinously Warcrimes? Zeta has an attempted lunar colony drop and then a colony laser obliterating the Titans fleet, ZZ has the aforementioned Dublin drop, but Victory…. SEED is a strong contender, featuring an entire army being literally microwaved to death on screen, vigorous attempted applications of mass nuclear bombardments, and a giant colony laser being used multiple times. Destiny keeps up the trend with even more nukes and colony lasers and also the Destroy leveling a significant portion of Europe, with Berlin being pretty much obliterated on screen. If you're counting offscreen stuff, IBO's setting is probably even worse on the war crimes front than Gundam X's backstory. The After War timeline might have destroyed a lot of civilization, but it didn't literally blow up the moon.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:03
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ManSedan posted:What UC show has the highest number of Heinously Warcrimes? Zeta has an attempted lunar colony drop and then a colony laser obliterating the Titans fleet, ZZ has the aforementioned Dublin drop, but Victory…. Are we going quality or volume? Further, do attempted war crimes count? Like, a Dainsleif is a war crime, but at most it kills 6,000 people a shot. You can do a hundred of them and not match one colony drop. What's the comparative value there? Kanos posted:SEED is a strong contender, featuring an entire army being literally microwaved to death on screen, vigorous attempted applications of mass nuclear bombardments, and a giant colony laser being used multiple times. Destiny keeps up the trend with even more nukes and colony lasers and also the Destroy leveling a significant portion of Europe, with Berlin being pretty much obliterated on screen. On the other side of things, the Calamity War "only" killed a quarter of humanity, as opposed to the fifty fifty split in the UC and the 99 percent plus for After War.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:04
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definitely seed. kira's dying whale noises were worse than any number of colony drops.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:05
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The boys
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Mar 31, 2022 00:13
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Me and the boys about to kill some kids' parents, then get ordered to kill the kids.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:21
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wdarkk posted:Me and the boys about to kill some kids' parents, then get ordered to kill the kids. It's interesting how hyped up Doan is getting in the trailer, with "Doan vs Char: who you got?" being treated as a fair question. Guess him going rogue is a bigger deal here.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:40
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chiasaur11 posted:Are we going quality or volume? Further, do attempted war crimes count? It also blew up the fuckin' moon which should probably be a bigger deal than it is.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:42
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https://youtu.be/GTJ3LIA5LmA
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Mar 31, 2022 00:45
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Gripweed posted:The boys Obligatory: Is that girl a boy too?
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Mar 31, 2022 01:15
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chiasaur11 posted:Obligatory: the concept of "the boys" is far bigger than gender
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Mar 31, 2022 01:16
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chiasaur11 posted:Obligatory: The trick is to see how high up the belt is on the waist.
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Mar 31, 2022 01:16
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:The dublin drop is the culmination of an arc where the argama goes to Dublin to try and plead with the federation leadership, who have holed up in a mansion in the city not giving a poo poo. Haman choosing that as her target is like the perfect opposite of arbitrary, lol  Sounds like it's time to rewatch ZZ
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Mar 31, 2022 02:02
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i watched thunderbolt movie 2 and it was also cool. though it felt more straightforward for some reason, i guess due to the larger focus on io and the general screentime focus bein' flipped so io and the federation folks get a lot more time to build up. the relationships they have feel a bit more 'traditional' since they're effectively playing the 'hero' role with the baggage they're holding bein' less outright hellish (child soldier meatgrinder vs. govt sending a bunch of people to grab a weapon to mass produce while killing everyone that gets in the way) alongside the south sea alliance being revealed as less of a sovereign nation trying to defend it's borders and people with whatever ups it can get and being more of a war cult/traditional 'bad guy' poo poo. in general i really enjoyed that it let the characters really get to breathe a lot more, especially in the scope of a sequel and how much of the movie is about dealing with the aftermath of their experiences both directly (in the scope of the military operations) and in terms of their personal relations and how everyone's ultimately still in that same position of being disposable assets for some horseshit. the 'lil bit at the start on about how io/daryl are glorified by their respective factions as to make folks pumped to keep a 'finished' war going despite ultimately being cannon fodder is pretty funny. especially the aspect of daryl's mechanic crew being getting fuckin' custom made shirts alongside stitching the patch and emblem as a permanent reminder of the direct cause of his biggest sorrows. the new guy, billy, being a newtype who is also so deep into it that he only recognizes combat prowess as the 'next step of evolution' feels a bit on the nose but i'm sure that goes somewhere interesting later as well. also daryl going from space ww2 to space vietnam is pretty hilarious in it's own right as well, down to one of his crewmates tryin to squash a kid with a giant heated axe. dude genuinely can't catch a break, though it's entirely of his own doing overall it doesn't feel as complete as the first movie in terms of getting everything it wants across because it ends on a cliffhanger that kind of changes the dynamic a lot for what's happening. the first movie felt pretty complete and the conclusion more or less tracks directly into this movie perfectly in terms of what it expresses for the eventual fates of the characters while this one is like, 'welp, seeya next time' also, what's with the south seas alliance leader being an.. artificial newtype? or something? the captain reveals he's an escapee from her experimentation facility but i thought artificial newtypes weren't a thing until way later or something? or that newtypes weren't really a known 'real' thing until after the first gundam? edit: thinking about it, the twist makes the entire thing feel weaker since the guy is stated and shown to have a literal superpower hypnosis war cult thing rather than the muddiness of the federation ironically launching a pre-emptive war against a sovereign nation to secure it's own power base Fereydun fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 02:34
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thunderbolt diverges pretty far from oyw canon. basically, don't worry about it.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:47
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I can't stop watching the Witch teaser
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Mar 31, 2022 02:49
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