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BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country
I don't have any final exams this time around, just papers. I got one done today (:woop:), but one due Tuesday and two more due Thursday.

Reeeeaaalllyyy looking forward to Saturday, when all of this crap will be done and I can finally relax.

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Sarah
Apr 4, 2005

I'm watching you.

Wroughtirony posted:

Hi, you might know me from the "cunning linguist" thread.

I'm having a full on panic attack meltdown about finals week, which starts about 12 hours from now. I need hardcore negative and positive motivation to burn through one last paper and four finals. I spent yesterday totally paralyzed due to panic and today I got just enough work done to keep me from failing my science class. Please give me your best pep talks/asskickings.

Buckle down and get it done. Your only way out is through.

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



Sarah posted:

Buckle down and get it done. Your only way out is through.

I did it. I finished all my essays and papers and finals on time. I have at least two As and I'm pretty sure I'll get a passing grade in Ecology. Also, apparently the English department nominated me for something I'm not supposed to know about yet. You guys were right. I didn't die. Thanks for all the encouragement and help! Now I'm going to sleep for a week.

The Aardvark
Aug 19, 2013


:toot:

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Done with my semester. 2 A's so far. My digital systems professor who usually shows up at 10:05 showed up right at 10 today. He said "right on time" and I don't know if he was joking or what, because the final was supposed to start at 9:30. I guess I'll see how that and my Cal 3 final turn out.

The Aardvark
Aug 19, 2013


I finished by physical chem and inorganic chem labs last week, so I just have a math final and inorganic lecture final next week. Still not sure what I'm supposed to actually do for my senior project grade since the structure analysis I did was done but no feedback for a month. :v:

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.


Sugartime Jones
Congrats to everyone passing.

SoUncool
Oct 21, 2010
Just finished my first year of law school. I honestly think I handled army stress better than law school stress. Two more years to go.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country
Just submitted my last loving paper.

...

Yeah I'm going to bed. Gonna party tomorrow.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

BigDave posted:

Just submitted my last loving paper.

...

Yeah I'm going to bed. Gonna party tomorrow.

Made it

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

SoUncool posted:

Just finished my first year of law school. I honestly think I handled army stress better than law school stress. Two more years to go.

There's still time to get out now. There are no jobs and you'll die alone. You can go get a masters in an actual useful field, get a proper salary when you graduate, and do some good for humanity. I know a lot of lawyers who have had to go back to school because law is miserable and there are no jobs.

Put your GI bill towards something useful.

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

My wife actually made it through a T14 and into BigLaw. She still wants to change careers. It is miserable work.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
I think Law is probably the biggest risk field. It's expensive, it's hard to get through, and assuming you even miracle a job afterwards there's no guarantee you'll like it without developing a crippling addiction or three.

I still maintain that doing any of the social sciences without the intent to go for MS/PhD is also extremely risky, but at least from there you can springboard into something else pretty easily. With having a JD, you run into the risk of being over market price just by education level if you try and work outside of the field.

edit: to clarify what I mean by that, from a hiring perspective someone with say a MS + JD applying to work in the field that the MS is in (without years of experience in that field), there's several risks. The first is that you as the applicant either implicitly or explicitly expect a higher salary based off your total cumulative education, and regardless if that's true or not it's going to be in everyone's mind. The second is that switching fields is a hard sell to make - while it's entirely possible that you just didn't like law and switched, there's always a concern that you'll rabbit because working in this other field doesn't work for you either. It's lovely and a lot of employers will play not-it and wait for someone else to employ you for a few years before accepting that narrative.

Vasudus fucked around with this message at 16:29 on May 11, 2019

Cenen
Apr 7, 2011
Nothing like the false sense of bravado when the only final grades that have been entered in so far have been the classes you got A’s in. Also actually being done with English forever now is nice.
Going to start studying calc for the summer summer semester so that should be fun.
Still beats having to deal with the stupid CHUDs that seem to make up the bulk of the military though. So many people who talked poo poo who where then surprised they got hit. Where the hell does the military recruit from that people really thought they were going to like try and bully me as grown rear end adults and I wouldn’t wait till they started laughing at their own joke before strangling them and our lovely wingmen would have to pull me off.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Vasudus posted:

I still maintain that doing any of the social sciences without the intent to go for MS/PhD is also extremely risky,

Come to the dark side....

I'm a complete dummy who got a business degree, got a GS job and jumped from 31k (GS-5) to 62k (GS-9) in 4 years after graduating. In another year it'll be 72k (GS-11).

If you can deal with customer service of the lower end of the economic strata, SSA is a frigging ridiculous place to work. Entry level job is GS 5 with a grade jump every year to GS-8, the next career step is 9/11.

I come in at any time between 7AM and 9AM. I work eight hours and go home. Liberal leave policy errrday. Optional OT every Saturday. No dress code. Union protections. Basically self-directed; I might get direct instructions from a supervisor 1-2 times a week.

If you're even halfway organized and motivated, you're in the top 10% of the office instantly. I was a mediocre-rear end soldier and an average student, and I'm the loving rock star of the office compared to the majority of these puds. We have a claims specialist who got arrested years ago for being drunk at work. We had a service rep who incurred a Secret Service visit when he said someone should shoot up Congress. We have a claims specialist who's been with SSA over a decade and is still technically in training because she's such a dingbat. We had a service rep who hired in the same time I did, had to go through her job training three times, and she made GS-8 the same time I did. THEY DO NOT FIRE ANYBODY.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Another thing to think about, veterans preference doesn't actually exist for lawyer jobs. In Florida, veterans preference is statutory for all non-exempt employees. In the exemption statute there is a blanket "officers of the court" to flat say there is no required preference for vets.

For federal jobs, all attorney jobs are in the excepted service and, as such, do not have codified veterans preference requirements.

Unless you are at a t14 law school and don't mind hating your life for 5-10 years grinding in biglaw hell, you aren't going to make any money as an attorney.

Not to mention that it's a miserable career full of constant adversary. You're fighting with someone every single day because you're in the middle of a dispute between two other people. It is a thankless job, and many of your victories will be bittersweet at best.

in sum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
The only way I'll do government work is at the GS14/15 level, which would be a moderate pay bump and responsibility from where I am now. And even then it would only be to get as much insider information as I could about internal strategy and then run back to private sector with my treasure trove of information.

One of the major perks of consulting is that nothing lasts forever and the work stays decently fresh.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene

SoUncool posted:

Just finished my first year of law school. I honestly think I handled army stress better than law school stress. Two more years to go.

What state and what are you trying to do with your degree?

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
Be a computer toucher with a clearance. Demand is amazing for that combination. I work with some astonishingly stupid people because they have it. Be intelligent and do decent work on top of that and you're going places.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

bird food bathtub posted:

Be a computer toucher with a clearance. Demand is amazing for that combination. I work with some astonishingly stupid people because they have it. Be intelligent and do decent work on top of that and you're going places.

I kind of want to do this, I've been a computer janitor for 15 years, but I'm transitioning into InfoSec.

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

CommieGIR posted:

I kind of want to do this, I've been a computer janitor for 15 years, but I'm transitioning into InfoSec.

Having a TS/SCI and being an accredited INFOSEC professional is a loving huge payday and job security in Uniform, As a GG civilian, or as a contractor.

Your gonna do well is what I’m saying, brother.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
If you have an active TS/SCI and 3+ years of ~cyber security~ experience there's a standing FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLAR bounty on referrals for my company. Meaning I get 15k, you get 15k.

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Vasudus posted:

If you have an active TS/SCI and 3+ years of ~cyber security~ experience there's a standing FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLAR bounty on referrals for my company. Meaning I get 15k, you get 15k.

See what I mean CommieGIR? Your already rounding third headed home and that’s the recruiting bonus! They will spend 30k just to hire you in.

It’s almost as lucrative as some of the higher paying surgical specialties and you don’t have to be a doctor!

Slightly jelly, but super happy for you man. Your gonna be glad you chose the INFOSEC path.

SoUncool
Oct 21, 2010
CA, and environmental law, to answer the questions. I'm not in it for the money, and I make enough passive income to actually mean that. I've read through the first few dozen pages of the Goon Law post and I -still- want to do this. It's just a lot more rough than I gave it credit for coming in. We'll see how long I stay bright-eyed, but I'm glad for all the perspective I'm getting from people who've been "enjoying" the fruits of their labors before me.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country

Vasudus posted:

If you have an active TS/SCI and 3+ years of ~cyber security~ experience there's a standing FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLAR bounty on referrals for my company. Meaning I get 15k, you get 15k.

Question, how does one obtain TS/SCI clearance?

Commoners
Apr 25, 2007

Sometimes you reach a stalemate. Sometimes you get magic horses.
Get a job where it's necessary. I got mine when I sent in an application for the whitehouse communications agency and being able to clear that was part of the application process.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

BigDave posted:

Question, how does one obtain TS/SCI clearance?

Apply for a job that needs one. This requires you to be so poo poo hot that the company is willing to spend $50,000 and wait a few months for you to get your clearance. In all likelihood, they will just hire some computer toucher that just got out of the air Force/navy and train them how to do the job.

If you aren't that desirable, find a place where an entire compound is a SCIF. This will likely be in a big military town. They are likely using a contractor for the people sitting at the desks who do bag inspections and deal with people's badges not working. Apply for one of those jobs and they will pay for your TS/SCI plus a full scope poly. You might have to work for them for a set amount of time, but then you're good to go to start applying for whatever clearance job you want.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
I should mention that the cost + fees of a TS/SCI to the employer has gone up in the last two years, twice, and is now at/around 100-120k.

Regular new talent acquisition is at/around 30k for regular folks. So the bounty is largely having the employee and the applicant assume the cost, hoping that they'll be blinded by the 15k price.

There's a reason it's clearance first, education level and certificates second, actual skill and ability third.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
I got out so long ago the question is academic, but is a Secret clearance basically the high school diploma of the hiring community?

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
I mean not *really*, since there's been a relatively major shift in clearances in the last 5-ish years. The government is doing a lot better job in mixed classification environment contracts on whom is required to be cleared. If you're working in a cleared facility like say a naval yard then everyone still needs one, of course. This also depends on the field, I do mostly policy work and I have a clearance because any policy that touches readiness has to go through coordination on the high side. I'm one of three people on my team that has a clearance.

So I would say overall there's less cleared applicants running around and less cleared contracts to hitch a ride on. It's a far cry from the 2010 GWOT era 'you get a TS, and you get a TS, and hell you get one too!'

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

See what I mean CommieGIR? Your already rounding third headed home and that’s the recruiting bonus! They will spend 30k just to hire you in.

It’s almost as lucrative as some of the higher paying surgical specialties and you don’t have to be a doctor!

Slightly jelly, but super happy for you man. Your gonna be glad you chose the INFOSEC path.

I didn't have TS/SCI when I was in, unfortunately. I'm transitioning from Systems/Linux Engineering to InfoSec after 15 years of being a Linux toucher.

Its worth noting I'm not new to InfoSec, I was a Red Team/Pen Tester for nearly my entire 15 years, but it was never a job you could do full time. It was a largely a side gig.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:35 on May 12, 2019

Flying_Crab
Apr 12, 2002



I’ve entertained applying to NGA or similar work but I don’t think I have a ton of desire to work in that world today. Although with my degree + MI background I get emails from recruiters at least once a week looking for intel people.

Being a cleared computer toucher seems like a sweet gig if you don’t mind having to maintain a clearance and all that entails.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
Being a federal government computer toucher is a nearly extinct animal. Almost all of it is done by contractors for two primary reasons:

1) The GS scale can't remotely keep up with private sector wages at all in anything ~cyber~ related. GS 13 Step 10 (which is the absolute max you could ever expect at the non-director level) tops out at $128,920. Most likely you're looking at coming in GS 9 Step 5, or $65,176. If that position is 9-11 bracketed, that's an absolute max of $90,461 for 11 Step 10. Note these are DC region GS wages. Entry level security/infosec/etc. in the private sector, east coast wages, are at/around 100k for a competitive company. If you're talking west coast wages, it's much higher. Like sure, I'm not trying to compare FAANG prices (which are ~150-170k cash and then RSUs that scale on seniority) but overall the GS scale pays WAY less than private sector for this field.

2) The number of computer touchers that are willing to work for the government is very low, particularly because of the policy on the devil's lettuce. And it's getting lower, while demand is getting higher. Which further pushes the wage gap between GS/private.

Sarah
Apr 4, 2005

I'm watching you.

Vasudus posted:

Being a federal government computer toucher is a nearly extinct animal. Almost all of it is done by contractors for two primary reasons:

1) The GS scale can't remotely keep up with private sector wages at all in anything ~cyber~ related. GS 13 Step 10 (which is the absolute max you could ever expect at the non-director level) tops out at $128,920. Most likely you're looking at coming in GS 9 Step 5, or $65,176. If that position is 9-11 bracketed, that's an absolute max of $90,461 for 11 Step 10. Note these are DC region GS wages. Entry level security/infosec/etc. in the private sector, east coast wages, are at/around 100k for a competitive company. If you're talking west coast wages, it's much higher. Like sure, I'm not trying to compare FAANG prices (which are ~150-170k cash and then RSUs that scale on seniority) but overall the GS scale pays WAY less than private sector for this field.

2) The number of computer touchers that are willing to work for the government is very low, particularly because of the policy on the devil's lettuce. And it's getting lower, while demand is getting higher. Which further pushes the wage gap between GS/private.

There’s in house IT where I work and they are awful, and I can only speculate that they can’t get a job elsewhere so they took the low hanging fruit of a GS position.

I just needed the dude to clear the print queue for me one day because I work with idiots that mess up the printer and getting 6 different people to log on and clear their own poo poo just so I can print labels at my work station is a nightmare. Just clear the queue for me with your fancy access. Easy right? No. He went in and deleted the IP address of the printer and renamed it (spewed out some BS like these label printers don’t follow the SOP on printer naming). Then was totally shocked when it wouldn’t print. Had to get his supervisor to come down and fix it after he tried to put it back to how it was for a straight 6 hours. :doh:

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Sarah posted:

There’s in house IT where I work and they are awful, and I can only speculate that they can’t get a job elsewhere so they took the low hanging fruit of a GS position.

I just needed the dude to clear the print queue for me one day because I work with idiots that mess up the printer and getting 6 different people to log on and clear their own poo poo just so I can print labels at my work station is a nightmare. Just clear the queue for me with your fancy access. Easy right? No. He went in and deleted the IP address of the printer and renamed it (spewed out some BS like these label printers don’t follow the SOP on printer naming). Then was totally shocked when it wouldn’t print. Had to get his supervisor to come down and fix it after he tried to put it back to how it was for a straight 6 hours. :doh:

Reminds me of a guy I had to work with. Sometimes port security would trip and phones would stop working. Easy fix, reset port security, reboot the phone. But if you factory reset the phone while port security was tripped, it would brick the phone. I went out with this guy to try to fix a phone. I figured it was port security so I went to log into the switch to reset it. Right before I was able to get to the switch, the guy factory resets the phone for no loving reason, and what do you know, the phone loving breaks. He once went through a whole floor bricking phones. He also tried to fix printers by trying to look them up in the Cisco call manager.

Cyks
Mar 17, 2008

The trenches of IT can scar a muppet for life

Cojawfee posted:

Reminds me of a guy I had to work with. Sometimes port security would trip and phones would stop working. Easy fix, reset port security, reboot the phone. But if you factory reset the phone while port security was tripped, it would brick the phone. I went out with this guy to try to fix a phone. I figured it was port security so I went to log into the switch to reset it. Right before I was able to get to the switch, the guy factory resets the phone for no loving reason, and what do you know, the phone loving breaks. He once went through a whole floor bricking phones. He also tried to fix printers by trying to look them up in the Cisco call manager.

We don't use port security at work but when you say bricking the phone, do you mean that he had to factory reset it again or it truly bricked the phone and had to be replaced? I don't see how port security would do that.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
Our Avaya phones take a giant poo poo anytime we even have a flicker of a power surge. At least 2-3 in the whole office of 60 will be goners.

DNVTs were poo poo but they could handle a mild flicker, at least

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Cyks posted:

We don't use port security at work but when you say bricking the phone, do you mean that he had to factory reset it again or it truly bricked the phone and had to be replaced? I don't see how port security would do that.

It wasn't able to connect back to the call manager and it would just poo poo the bed. Sometimes you could take it directly to the call manager, hook it up, and it would come back. But most of the time it was just hosed and had to be RMA'd.

The Aardvark
Aug 19, 2013


Cool: I get to be lab manager for the summer.

Not cool: Having to train four summer interns on things I don't really do in the lab


Gonna be a great summer.

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EBB
Feb 15, 2005

The Aardvark posted:

Cool: I get to be lab manager for the summer.

Not cool: Having to train four summer interns on things I don't really do in the lab


Gonna be a great summer.

LC/MS?

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