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Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

I didn't go back to watch that movie until after I was about halfway through the series, and I kind of agree that I had seen that first, it might not have grabbed me. The first episodes proper (which I did not, at the time, realize had been replaced by another movie) seemed more effective at establishing the characters and their worlds: Reinhard decimates a fleet three times the size of his own with contemptuous ease, then Yang realizes something's up but isn't allowed to do more than limp away from overwhelming odds; neither side gets what they wanted despite a six-digit body count, but they both declare victory to preserve morale, and the story kicks off with the promotion of both the opposing protagonists into ranks sufficient to actually start having an effect on the galaxy.

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Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The rule of thumb for compensating for scale issues is that every number in science fiction or fantasy is either ten times too high or ten times too low. Just switch a few zeroes around until you've got something that feels better to you.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

It's hard to get people to start something this long. However, once they've started, every friend I've recommended it to has loved it. This is because if you dislike Legend of Galactic Heroes, you're no friend of mine.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Beware: it's possible one of your co-workers is a nerd that likes an anime.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Shyrka posted:

Aren't they free 'cause of being out of copyright? I thought that's why the old Looney Tunes cartoons used classical music all the time.

Looney Tunes had full access to Warner Bros.' music library, which other studios would have had to pay license fees for. They used not only copyrighted recordings but also original recordings of copyrighted songs written for-hire.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Krataar posted:

Just finished the first movie. Having actual context on the battle made it even better. Still not entirely sure whats going on. Yang is part of space america and Blondie is part of Space prussia. Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it?

Hyperspace is dangerous and mysterious, but some narrow safe routes have been charted, including the Iserlohn Corridor.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The battle in the first handful of episodes lasts about 20 hours, doesn't it? The length of it is clearer than in the movie adaptation, which focuses more on the supporting casts and less on introducing the war.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

my dad posted:

Reinhard commands men willing to die for him, Yang leads men (and women) who trust him to do his best to get them through the fight alive.

I always found it interesting that Yang's staff is a lot less flashy in their individual roles, yet as a whole they are noticeably more competent than Reinhard's staff. Reinhard's got a shitton of admirals who are great fleet leaders, yet aren't really capable of working together, and often end up running into each other while seeking glory, so to speak. They absolutely need Reinhard to keep them in line. On the other hand, Yang spent an entire episode trying to stop his logistics officer (if I recall correctly) from getting reassigned elsewhere, since he knows that competent men are hard to find, and all his plans are worth poo poo if his fleet isn't in the right shape to execute them (which you kinda need competent logistics guys for). And it's not the only time in the show where Yang goes out of his way to ensure the right person gets assigned to the right position. If I had to make a comparison, Reinhard's admirals are tools in a toolbox. Reinhard picks the right tool for every job (while every tool screams "Pick me!"), and gets it done, occasionally doing things with his own hands when the need arises. Yang's staff are a well oiled machine. He inputs his instructions, and poo poo gets done. This is why Reinhard fuming about being constantly outmatched by Yang is so ironic. His own mindset of seeing the world as being in a struggle between great heroes prevents him from understanding that Yang, the brilliant enemy he faces, is more than just Yang, the individual. (Spoilers about plot that happens fairly late) In a weird way, one of the best signs of Yang's competency is that he build a fleet that didn't crumble without him. They keep on fighting against ridiculous odds long after he dies - weakened by his absence but certainly not defeated, still benefiting greatly from the foundations he laid. On the other hand, the Empire shakes every time Reinhard catches a cold.

edit: Unrelated, my personal favorite characters are Alexandre Bewcock and his wife. She's only present in a couple of scenes, but that one moment when she's already prepared his uniform before that one battle is... Probably the most emotional moment in the show, at least to me.

Extra interesting in light of how Admiral Merkatz fits into Yang's organization.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Alder posted:

I'm not familiar with space opera but would I like this anyways? I've heard about it but never really put much thought until I noticed this post. Thanks.

It's good.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Alder posted:

Looks good, I already like the 1st movie so far, but are there going to be any major female characters?

Like six, out of dozens. This series is kind of a sausage fest. It's the only bad thing about it.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

SHISHKABOB posted:

If you do a thing then you are that thing.

Okay, son.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

I'm reading the book.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Well, it's unclear whether by giving a negative review to a problematic thing the reviewer is actually saying that its problems make it unworthy, which would make it genuinely in need (though not for that reason deserving) of defense against ideology. This and many other exciting confusions arise when we conflate the interpretation of art with the passing of moral and aesthetic verdicts upon it.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The book was a rather light experience considering the body count. It treated is story distantly and impersonally, as befits a work of false history, and it seemed to spend as much time digressing suddenly into its fictional past (oftentimes in the middle of a scene) as into the private thoughts of its characters. It isn't quite a matter of depicting only that which could maintain the premise of being empirically documented, and I'm not sure if that stylistic compromise makes the whole work less interesting (by backing away from the historical aesthetic) or more (by bringing the reader closer to the characters' motivations).

Having seen the adaptation first may have tainted my impressions. The animation has far better means to distinguish the enormous supporting cast, but the fact that I had a ready-made image of all of them definitely made such a difference that I can't guess at what it would be like for someone without that exposure.

I'm not equipped to comment on the quality of the translation save that the prose was clear and plain throughout, and this plainness worked to its advantage. The few idiomatically Japanese rhetorical constructs that remained may only have stood out to me because I already knew to recognize them, and they certainly didn't detract.

If you get it as an ebook, be aware that the default starting location is set after the lengthy expository prologue.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

I don't think that calling them "unconscious" was meant to be understood as calling them unimportant; just the opposite, in fact.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Chas McGill posted:

Surely unconscious inclusions are more telling tha-

Never mind.

Who is going to be gender swapped in the anime? Pervy Poplan? Julia(n)?

MASHENGO

I can just picture Yang saying "What is that?" disgustedly as a woman approaches the bridge...

Annerose

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The story asserts that an inept democracy is preferable to an ideal dictatorship despite the difference in quality of governance, in my view.

You should fix those spoiler tags.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

That has more to do with the treasury than with the state of the imperial economy.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Patter Song posted:

Bucock meets an old friend:


So...why did the coupsters let Drunky McTraitor into their ranks?

Because when he showed up, he was carrying an incredibly brilliant plan, and he took credit for it.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The masters were damaged between the releases of the LD and DVD versions, so they reanimated those parts. The colors don't match and there's less detail, reflecting that it was animated elsewhere under different circumstances.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Probably means the new adaptation will take more liberties. Stylistic ones if nothing else.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

It's a bit of a stretch to imagine Reinhard voting at all, but impossible to imagine him voting for someone he holds in contempt. Unless he's trying to destabilize America in order to seize control of it for himself, of course!

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Look, all I know is, if it were me declaring the planet I lived on independent, I'd strongly consider wearing a toga.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Have any other works of Yoshiki Tanaka, or adaptations thereof, been translated to English?

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Volume 4: Stratagem is to be released tomorrow.

Edit: it is on my Kindle.

Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Jun 20, 2017

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The hell is Hidive.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Much as I like the period-appropriate style of the previous OVA, this looks good too. What'll make or break it for me is the soundtrack.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

I sincerely hope that the new series puts an amount of male gaze on Reinhard that is more similar to the books, i.e. a lot of it.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Next time I rewatch the series (note: I have no idea when this will be) I'll make a list of which episodes have content in the ending instead of previews. Skip the previews.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Volume 5, "Mobilization," is out in English, apparently.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

I'm not too pleased with the quality of the translation. Can't quite put my finger on it. It's as though it localized the phrases but not the way they are used. But it's coming through clearly enough.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Billzasilver posted:

Book 1 was 99% the same as the anime translation. Did they ever really stray from that?

It's credited to a different translator starting in volume 3 I think. Others might not notice, but I checked and saw that and was like "Oh, that explains it."

Honestly, it's fine. It's not incompetent or anything, just prose that is clearly not within any natively English idiom.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Over a century of war has consistently rewarded cynical political opportunists with authority. Both nations' power structures are degraded by the fact that they're ruled by people who considered personal advancement their foremost goal and rewarded subordinates who were personally loyal.

They take it for granted that the stalemate will last forever. Only when Yang captures Iserlohn Fortress do they realize that the war can change and even be won, that is, that it can be anything besides a club for nobles to play at chivalry and politicians to manipulate public opinion. (Reinhard, of course, realizes that from the beginning, and takes action to make it happen.)

Naturally, this realization shakes the Alliance more profoundly, since they depend on public opinion rather than authority to maintain control. All the dupes who were completely taken in by Trünicht's jingoism saw this as their opportunity to fulfill their dream, and the result was Parker's invasion of the Empire, and the result was so devastating that the rest of the series was inevitable.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

This Waterloo?

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

It's not a plot hole for a story not to provide an expository reason why an unconventional tactic that is shown working is unconventional.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

It seems that the next book (Volume 6: Flight) is to be released in April.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

I figured out what it is that bugs me with the promotional art for the new adaptation. It's not the style; that chunky late-80s style of the main OVA is great, but there's nothing wrong with the modern stuff. It's not the apparent ages of the characters, as that's partly a function of the style and frankly a lot of the characters are young.

It's the expressions. The stills they've shown of the new adaptation show the characters emoting differently than I associate with their dispositions. Yang looks cold, Reinhard is facing down instead of up, that sort of thing. This Julian here seems timid and unready.

I'm open to the possibility that this is a factor of how they're promoting it. A different take on the characters could be interesting as well; the OVA, it turns out, is extremely faithful, but there's nothing wrong with a loose adaptation.

The bigger problem is that everybody has terrible hair.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

GoLambo posted:

I just want to know how that scrawny little dude is supposed to transform into a hardcore Axe Murderer later in the series.

Puberty.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

The character designs work better in motion than I expected, and the CGI looks fine on its own, but any time they put high-framerate CGI and low-framerate animation in the frame at the same time it's pretty jarring. That seems like something animators would've figured out how to avoid by now.

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Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Captain Invictus posted:

wait, that's not a loving photoshop?

It is one.

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