Psyduck posted:edit: I really wanna know EC10's thought process behind the check. Would Jotun be more willing to stack off with say JJ,TT,99 on the turn if you check the flop?
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Feb 10, 2007 14:41
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English is not my first language and I have a problem with that reading Harrington on Hold'em. With regards to raising, what does it exactly mean to raise 3 BB ? Alt 1 : raise three times BB = bet BB + 3BB = 4 BB to enter pot for those yet to act or Alt 2 : raise three times BB = bet 3BB = 3 BB to enter pot for those yet to act.
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Feb 11, 2007 15:11
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Raising 3bb means raising TO 3bb. So if the big blind is 100, raising 3bb means you make it so that people have to put in 300 total to see the flop. Alt 2 in your example.
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Feb 11, 2007 15:37
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souLjah posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcTHzcTFxcbNzcTExMLMzYjFwcPFwM0%3d could someone give me a little feedback? thanks 
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Feb 11, 2007 19:15
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Limp raising is usually indicative of a lot of strength, so yeah you probably lay it down there.
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Feb 11, 2007 21:37
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I've noticed that I've had some problems playing small two pairs recently and sometimes I think stacking off with overpairs where I shouldn't. I don't have the hand histories on me at the moment, but one hand recently I had 45 in the SB, board was A45. There are I believe 4 people in the pot, all limped. I bet out 4 BB (the pot), guy minraises me immediately after me. Everyone else folds. We both have ~100BB behind. How much money should I look to get in on this flop, without a specific read that he's a donk? Most people on poker.com tend to lean towards being weaktight. Anyway, I raised and he reraised and I called and he showed A4. Normally I would fold the 4-bet probably but he had just taken a big bad beat and I thought he might be tilting. Barring that though, is the line here 3-bet/fold, or do I call planning to check/call? That would keep the pot small but seems really weak and begging to get beat somehow. If I 3-bet and he 4-bets, I don't see anything I could possibly beat except a combo draw. Later on another hand I had was KhKc on a Jh5c5h board. One MP limper, one LP limper. I raise to 5x, SB calls, BB and both limpers fold. On the flop, villain checks, I bet pot (~$25), he checkraises me to like $60, I figure my choices here are really to push or fold, so I push, thinking he could be getting tricky on me since I tend to always bet those paired boards and almost always c-bet when headsup. I thought he might have a pocket pair 66-TT, or QQ (or even AA if he really doesn't like 3-betting preflop, and some people don't). He also could have something like maybe jack-broadway. He ended up flipping over 7d5d (lol) which isn't the point, but without reads, how would you normally play this hand? Could it be right to just passively check the flop, bet or call the turn, and check through the river, hoping to get action from a low PP or a jack? I guess the risk is giving a free card when there's a flush draw out there and an ace will lose the pot for you as well. I really need to get in here and post some more hands, I'll do that when I get back to my apartment. I think I'm mostly missing value/losing too much with overpairs, high pairs, good but possibly second best hands, etc.
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Feb 12, 2007 02:18
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ElProducto posted:Limp raising is usually indicative of a lot of strength, so yeah you probably lay it down there. thanks
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Feb 12, 2007 02:38
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I have been 4 tabling and villian has stacked two complete donks 2 1/2 times to build up a pretty deep stack I am deep aswell so i have a problem with this hand. I have little to no read because of 4 tabling unfortunatly - nl $0.5/$1 P.S I'm trying to manually convert, hopefully it's somewhat readable... ***** Hand 533636944 ***** 0.50/1.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - Monday, February 12, 2007 5:33:52 PM Table TH 944 (Real/Cash Game) Seat 1: Hero (241.87) Seat 2: blank1 (94.74) Seat 3: villian (372.80) Seat 4: blank2 (102.10) Seat 5: blank3 (115.17) blank1 post SB 0.50 villian post BB 1.00 ** Deal ** Hero [A  , A  ]*** Bet Round 1 *** blank1 Fold blank2. Call 1.00 Hero Raise to 5.00 blank3 Fold villian Raise to 15.00 blank2. Fold Hero Raise to 40.00 villian Call 40.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [K  , 4 , 4 ]*** Bet Round 2 *** Vil Check Hero Check *** Turn(Board): *** : [K , 4 , 4 , 5  ]*** Bet Round 3 *** Vil Bet 45.00 Hero Call 45.00 *** River(Board): *** : [K , 4, 4, 5, 6 ]*** Bet Round 4 *** Vil All-in 287.80 Hero ? I'd like to read some responses before i give my thought process, and my actions, cheers guys
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Feb 12, 2007 13:18
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Your small pf 4-bet is a little bad, but not as gross as your flop check (seriously, wtf?). He probably has AK/KK 80% of the time and some sort of random middle pair that he's bluffing with the rest of the time. Your hand is underrepresented, you may have induced a bluff, there is $170 in the pot and it is $150 more to you, plus you have the effective second nuts; this absolutely has to be a call without reads.
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Feb 12, 2007 13:25
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kiwi29 posted:I have been 4 tabling and villian has stacked two complete donks 2 1/2 times to build up a pretty deep stack I am deep aswell so i have a problem with this hand. I have little to no read because of 4 tabling unfortunatly - Like blah_blah said: raise more preflop especially when you are playing deep. When you 4-bet at NL100 it usually means QQ+ so you letting him call that for so little allows him to almost play perfectly against you. If you bet something like 50, its an error on his part for him to pay that much hoping to stack you. Flop check is gross. You now have no idea where you are in the hand so on the river he feels that he can bluff you out or he feels his pair of Kings is good. In this case more of the time he doesn't have QQ here mainly because given most 4-bet preflop ranges, if he holds QQ, it's very unlikely that he thinks you also have QQ as well. So I think he puts you on QQ, especially with that check on the flop. I think I would have to call given the hand but it would be easier to evalute this play if you knew what he does with something like AK preflop. Do you have any of his VPIP/PFR?
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Feb 12, 2007 14:13
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Kalen, our new overlord at MSHE, told em not to suffer from FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) at Cake NL50. Oh but sometimes I can't help it. I have 88 Flop: He waits a while before betting. The half bet screamed "probe/where am I?" c-bet to me. I smooth call intending to see how he treats a brick turn. I do not continue if anyone else calls. They are slowplaying the Ace. Turn: He waited a loooong time before making what is either a blocking bet or a "I don't have an Ace guv, honest!". I had decided a weak bet and I would jam it. It's about another $20 on top for him in a $40 pot roughly. I feel I have represented the Ace and as such he folds 99-KK enough of the time for me to show profit. If he wasn't already beating me, then I've made him pay to suck out as he wasn't betting out much anyway. He spent up all his thinking time, around 30 seconds but they felt like more, before he folded. I laughed. Then I hoped I played it right. http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/default.aspx?Hand=xcTAx8TFxcbNw8TExMbMwYjFwsbHw8A%3d Why has my hand died? Hand #1043011297000285: Pebble Beach 11297 Seat 1: SickParrot (40.01 in chips) Seat 2: AtotheC (13.80 in chips) Seat 3: fatboy32 (37.70 in chips) Seat 4: zombeezy (14.70 in chips) Seat 5: monk27 (11.15 in chips) Seat 7: Cordealius (48.75 in chips) Seat 8: Jigga Jon (30.05 in chips) Seat 9: Fat Turkey (57.35 in chips) Seat 10: PkrSocrates (98.02 in chips) AtotheC: posts small blind $0.25 fatboy32: posts big blind $0.50 Dealt to Fat Turkey [ 8d 8c ] zombeezy: folds monk27: folds Cordealius: folds Jigga Jon: raises to $1.75 Fat Turkey: calls PkrSocrates: folds SickParrot: calls AtotheC: folds fatboy32: calls *** FLOP *** [ Ac 6d As ] fatboy32: checks Jigga Jon: bets $3.45 Fat Turkey: calls SickParrot: folds fatboy32: folds *** TURN *** [ 2s ] Jigga Jon: bets $5 Fat Turkey: raises to $26 Jigga Jon: folds Fat Turkey: returns uncalled bet $21 *** SHOW DOWN *** Fat Turkey: mucks Fat Turkey wins $22.95 Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Feb 12, 2007 |
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Feb 12, 2007 20:24
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You have the best hand most of the time if he folds. I just call on the turn if I think he's full of poo poo; he's not going to triple barrel you very often and he has at most 6 outs to improve.
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Feb 12, 2007 20:28
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blah_blah posted:You have the best hand most of the time if he folds. I just call on the turn if I think he's full of poo poo; he's not going to triple barrel you very often and he has at most 6 outs to improve. I disagree. Violently. If he's ahead, calling down will guarentee I lose a showdown. Shoving here might not always fold the better hands but his weak turn bet makes me think he wants a cheap showdown, which I'm not offering. I think he folds a lot here. His reluctance on flop and turn tell me he is weak. If he's behind, by calling I am will have let him pay $5 in a $22 pot to see if he can hit his 6 outer. Thats really REALLY cheap, especially since any card T+ is a scare card and I can't get any value out of a winning hand, but can lose by calling when he hits. That seems really passive and doesn't get any value.
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Feb 12, 2007 20:51
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Fat Turkey posted:88 This seems fine. You picked up on weakness, but he still might have the best hand, so you "bluffed" with what may be the best hand.
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Feb 12, 2007 21:02
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blah_blah posted:Your small pf 4-bet is a little bad, but not as gross as your flop check (seriously, wtf?). He probably has AK/KK 80% of the time and some sort of random middle pair that he's bluffing with the rest of the time. Your hand is underrepresented, you may have induced a bluff, there is $170 in the pot and it is $150 more to you, plus you have the effective second nuts; this absolutely has to be a call without reads. As turkey wrote "I disagree. Violently." So I'll use that  Okay, given i dont have a complete read a tight range is probably AK, jj+, given i 4bet smallish he probably feels he has an opportunity to stack me if he sets up. So that was my range for him. The 4bet is small i agree. When a flop comes down with a K on it it changes the hand drastically, i tie AA, beat AK, QQ, JJ, and obviously lose to KK. The reasoning behind my flop check is this, and i'm surprised you guys jumped all over it to be honest. Betting here just makes better hands call and worse hands fold. QQ, JJ will not stack off on this flop obviously. I have to give the villain an opportunity to either bluff or feel his hand his the best. By checking here i accomplish this goal provided an A doesnt come down. Villian will clearly put me on slowplaying KK or QQ, JJ. If this is the case, AK definitely felt, and QQ will probably felt by river, and JJ is given an opportunity to bluff on a later street. There is no need in my opinion to narrow down my villains range on the flop, as it is pretty narrow given preflop, and let's face it betting on the flop just makes better hands call. As played and i know this is results oriented, villain showed KTs (W T F?) obviously putting me on QQ-, i felt this could not have been accomplished had it not for been the way i played the hand, I'm curious to hear reactions to my thought process as you guys seemed very against checking this flop. edit: this is fortune so no stats
kiwi29 fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 12, 2007 |
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Feb 12, 2007 21:15
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EC10 posted:This seems fine. You picked up on weakness, but he still might have the best hand, so you "bluffed" with what may be the best hand. I agree. I've seen very very few Cake players bet out top trips on a non-draw board. Flat-calling the flop bet is great with people still to act, and allowed you to represent the A on the turn once it got HU.
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Feb 12, 2007 21:20
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Fat Turkey posted:I disagree. Violently. Essentially what I'm saying is to call turn and fold river unimproved short of some sick read on the player (which you declined to provide us with). Whenever you're behind here you're drawing to two outs, so there are rather dire consequences for being wrong compared to seeing a free/cheap showdown. I mean, he probably doesn't have an ace (again combinatorially speaking, when you weight his pf raising range against the two aces on the flop), but I don't generally give people with weird stack sizes at NL50 a high likelihood of being able to fold JJ here, although I agree that you can represent something like AJ or AT here the way you've played it. I would much rather you shove something like KQ here than 88, which has more showdown value here and better equity against his range. Also shoving here just stops him from bluffing a lot of the time, which is nice for variance but bad for EV; you shouldn't be afraid of picking him off if you think he is full of poo poo. Also I think the flop call is bad in principle; I haven't played FR on even a semi-regular basis since, like, May, but a fold here has to be the default. I mean, I am a calling station, but calling low-ish pairs here against a pf raiser with players still to act is either kind of spewy or really spewy depending on the quality of your opponents.
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Feb 13, 2007 00:45
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kiwi29 posted:As turkey wrote "I disagree. Violently." So I'll use that A lot of what you write here is kind of contradictory. I mean, most reasonably intelligent people don't get out of line in 4-bet pots. If I have JJ and have been 4-bet, I am not putting in another cent on any board containing a king and no set (well, maybe KQT with a OESFD). On the other hand, if he has AK, you want to get a lot of money in on this flop before more scare cards come, or before something like the Jh comes that makes you (and him!) poo poo your pants. I mean, let's be realistic here, you didn't play this hand like a genius, you played a 500BB pot against a retard who thinks that stacking off with TPNK in a 4-bet pot and calling 4-bets with KTss is correct. You really think that he's not stacking off on the flop? In this case you got lucky; in most other circumstances you get a lot more money in by playing the ABC way; betting flop, betting turn, and betting river unless the board gets stupid. I mean, saing that only better hands call and worse hands fold is an overused and often misapplied phrase. If the board is KKQ then only better hands call and worse hands fold. This is not the case when one of his three most likely hands is willing to stack off (AK), one of them may be willing to call a medium sized flop bet (QQ), and both of these are more likely than KK because really, who just cold calls the 4-bet 5-handed with KK? You may think that you are setting a brilliant Jamie Gold-esque trap but most of the time you are better off betting the flop and letting people make mistakes there than trying to get them to get out of line by checking.
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Feb 13, 2007 01:03
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blah_blah posted:You may think that you are setting a brilliant Jamie Gold-esque Ouch! After reading your post i must concede that i was not getting the maximum value because of my line. blah_blah posted:most of the time you are better off betting the flop and letting people make mistakes there than trying to get them to get out of line by checking. This is true i think i was too focused on trying to get value from lower pairs then getting money in as quick as possible. I wanted advice on this hand because it is pretty much the exact opposite way i play deep pocket pairs. Perhaps i am being too results oriented Cheers for your advice blah_blah
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Feb 13, 2007 02:00
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While I think the flop check is suboptimal, it is better if the stacks are not super deep; I mean, a lot of the time it will be hard to get all of your stack in if the flop goes c/c and this is, despite the king, a very good flop for your hand. Of course it's always good to try different lines, but it's generally a mistake to try anything that differs drastically from ABC poker in 4-bet pots. Congrats on the 500BB pot
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Feb 13, 2007 02:43
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blah_blah posted:Essentially what I'm saying is to call turn and fold river unimproved short of some sick read on the player (which you declined to provide us with). Whenever you're behind here you're drawing to two outs, so there are rather dire consequences for being wrong compared to seeing a free/cheap showdown. I'm afraid our villain did not post a short biography of himself and I gave all the info I had. If I'm not saying much, then he hasn't been playing anything out the ordinary, like too many flops or too many shoves. However, I gave you his reaction speeds for bets, which scream tightness and weakness. The fact is this guy has been betting scared and I generally find people who are willing to risk their stack in this situation will not come out with such clearly scared bets. If I am ahead, I am going to get value out of anyone who tries to draw out on me rather than letting them have their cheap river card. If I'm behind, his weak bets faced with my aggression really gave me the feel he'd fold it. It's what I'd do when I'm nitty and I have TT-QQ there. I'm wondering how you extract any money from hands. Most importantly, your advice goes against Sklanksy's Fundamental Poker Theory. If I really think I'm behind, then I shouldn't be calling. If I really think I'm ahead I should be raising. quote:Also shoving here just stops him from bluffing a lot of the time, which is nice for variance but bad for EV; you shouldn't be afraid of picking him off if you think he is full of poo poo. What? Me pushing here stops him bluffing? These aren't bluffs he's making but probe bets. You can't just flat out say "that raise will stop him from bluffing which will lose you EV", its a really generic statement which you can't even back up beyond wild speculation. I'm also wondering how calling when PFR put 1/19th of their stack in and the large stacks of the blinds are still to act with very good position is not a standard for set mining? I didn't call here expecting 8s to stand up alone. However his obviously weak reactions showed that I could take it down on a later street. You seem to want to play this hand really nitty and passive.
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Feb 13, 2007 02:50
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Fat Turkey posted:I'm wondering how you extract any money from hands. When I try to get heroic I generally don't do it in multiway pots. In any event your shove is not for value, so you are not 'extracting' money in any reasonable sense of the word. If you really think you're ahead (do you? you haven't really made this clear in any way) then you should call and let him fire the river, since the EV of that is clearly higher than blowing him off of his hand (which you probably beat anyways). If you think that he has 99+ the vast majority of the time here and are blowing him off it enough for it to be profitable (fwiw the stack sizes are good to do precisely that, but in my experience people don't fold mid pairs that much here), then go for it by all means. Fat Turkey posted:What? Me pushing here stops him bluffing? These aren't bluffs he's making but probe bets. You can't just flat out say "that raise will stop him from bluffing which will lose you EV", its a really generic statement which you can't even back up beyond wild speculation. Obviously preflop is standard. I don't think that folding 88 with two players left to act and a bet by the PFR on a AAx flop is nitty or passive (hint: if the SB has Ax he is probably not leading). If it is 6max and I am closing the action on the flop, then I am definitely peeling; this is pretty different. In any event, I think your shove is -EV and your flop call is -EV and this is a thinly veiled brag post so congratulations I guess. It's obviously player dependent and read dependent but I don't see how it can be good in a vacuum.
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Feb 13, 2007 03:38
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blah_blah posted:When I try to get heroic I generally don't do it in multiway pots. In any event your shove is not for value, so you are not 'extracting' money in any reasonable sense of the word. I didn't get "heroic" until it was was heads up. The shove has more value than calling. You are suggesting I give villain cheap cards to river me. In your first post you send fold if he bets river but then you later say that I shuould call the river hoping he bluffs it. So even you don't know how to make the money off this hand. I get money by getting better hands to fold. I think I got him off a pair in this hand, and the odds say it was a better hand than mine. quote:If you really think you're ahead (do you? you haven't really made this clear in any way) then you should call and let him fire the river, since the EV of that is clearly higher than blowing him off of his hand (which you probably beat anyways). If you think that he has 99+ the vast majority of the time here and are blowing him off it enough for it to be profitable (fwiw the stack sizes are good to do precisely that, but in my experience people don't fold mid pairs that much here), then go for it by all means. I'm not sure if I'm ahead. His hand range is quite wide but he obviously believes someone has an Ace. If I am ahead, you cannot justify just calling. It lets his weak bet succeed and allows him to outdraw me cheap. The turn is raise/fold imo. If I am behind, then my shove only needs an overpair to fold once every three tries to break even. Look how he has played it, what hands he might fold and what hands he might put me on. He has played it like a medium/decent pair, he bets PF and gets callers and OH NOES two Aces come. Look at the weak bets. They are not value bets or minbets, they are probe bets of someone who doesn't want to get their stack in. If I have 99-QQ there and I see someone flat call my flop bet and raise my turn bet, I believe a tightish player can fold more than 1 in three times. I've taken villain's perspective, considered his range, considered what he puts me on and think he folds enough whether ahead or behind to make this profitable. You say in your experience people don't fold there, but again, in my experience people who make weaks bets don't want to risk their stack. quote:Obviously preflop is standard. I don't think that folding 88 with two players left to act and a bet by the PFR on a AAx flop is nitty or passive (hint: if the SB has Ax he is probably not leading). If it is 6max and I am closing the action on the flop, then I am definitely peeling; this is pretty different. In any event, I think your shove is -EV and your flop call is -EV and this is a thinly veiled brag post so congratulations I guess. It's obviously player dependent and read dependent but I don't see how it can be good in a vacuum. Why the hint? It's pretty loving obvious. Why is it different? We have a scary board which only someone with an Ace or a very good pocket pair will consider continuing with. There are no draws. Anyone who calls has a made hand. If anyone calls, they have the Ace. But if noone calls I believe I can take this pot away, maybe get a free/cheap showdown or if he shows real weakness, take it away on the turn. In any event, EC10 and kalensc seem to back my play so unless you can address something specifically in my method that is wrong (I looked at both his hand range and what he could put me on, coupled with his weak betting), I will consider your views too broad. I agree with you that generally in NL50 this line is not a good one, however I believe this would be an example of a move based on a player. I brought it to NL critique because I wanted to see if this kind of player read is how other people do it. You can believe this is a brag post all you like, the only reason the end result was included was because you can't hide it on Cake. Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Feb 13, 2007 |
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Feb 13, 2007 15:09
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blah_blah, what stakes do you play and how long/how many hands have you been playing them?
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Feb 13, 2007 15:14
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EC10 posted:blah_blah, what stakes do you play and how long/how many hands have you been playing them? Ouch - do you really think my advice in general is that bad?  As far as NLHE is concerned, I have about 30k hands at NL100, about 5k at NL200, and maybe 20k hands at NL50, about half of which (that is, the NL50 hands) are at full ring. Nearly everything else is at 6max or HU. These are estimates because some of the hands are not in Pokertracker.
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Feb 14, 2007 00:01
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blah_blah is right (I didn't read all of the arguement though), I don't get the turn raise. This seems like an optimal spot to get him to bluff again on the river with total crap, does it not?
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Feb 14, 2007 00:24
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LuckySevens posted:blah_blah is right (I didn't read all of the arguement though), I don't get the turn raise. This seems like an optimal spot to get him to bluff again on the river with total crap, does it not? To fold hands that beat us, per chance? Not to give overcards a very cheap draw to the river?
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Feb 14, 2007 00:45
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcTAwMTFxcfMwMTExMTCzYjFx8TBwsU%3d Should I have bet more on the river?
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Feb 14, 2007 00:49
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LorneReams posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcTAwMTFxcfMwMTExMTCzYjFx8TBwsU%3d He's bet half of his stack by the turn, there's not really much more you can bet. Would you get the extra $2.20 by putting him in?
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Feb 14, 2007 01:21
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bigfatspacko_uk posted:He's bet half of his stack by the turn, there's not really much more you can bet. Would you get the extra $2.20 by putting him in? I'm unsure which is why I'm asking. I felt uncertain after he called the turn.
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Feb 14, 2007 01:22
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LorneReams posted:I'm unsure which is why I'm asking. I felt uncertain after he called the turn. I think the river bet is more or less neutral EV anyways (e.g. he sometimes has a weak two pair and calls, he sometimes folds etc), and I think it doesn't make much of a difference whether you bet $5 or shove. I think the real question is whether shorties are more or less likely (psychologically) to call bets that put them all in or nearly all in, and I have no clue what the answer is in general here.
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Feb 14, 2007 01:26
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EC10 posted:This seems fine. You picked up on weakness, but he still might have the best hand, so you "bluffed" with what may be the best hand. Actually I think that Fat Turkey played it excellently on the turn, but pretty badly on the flop. The preflop raiser is c-betting into THREE people on a AAx board. I mean, calling here is pretty suicidal just because a really high % of the time, one of the three will have an ace. Once you get to the turn, I agree that this guy seems to want a cheap showdown. He almost certainly has KK-JJ here. You absolutely cannot call here because you're behind 100% of the time. I mean, does he have 22? KQ? I love your bluff because you read him correctly for a scared two pair (but something that beats you) and you're taking him off it. But just fold the flop plz.
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Feb 14, 2007 01:30
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what would you do? http://www.pokerhand.org/?821486
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Feb 14, 2007 09:08
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souLjah posted:what would you do? It's just a math problem right? Pot is about $45; he shoves for $30 more, you get an overcaller, your boat outs are almost always clean, so it's $30 to you into a pot of about $111; your EV is probably about 14-24% here depending on how many boat outs are dead (two+ are dead a lot here); it's probably a fold. Make a properly sized turn bet or just check turn though; it makes your decisions a lot easier.
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Feb 14, 2007 09:18
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LorneReams posted:I'm unsure which is why I'm asking. I felt uncertain after he called the turn. he checked the river, i don't meet too many players at yours stakes and not many who will c/r the river at 50NL. Some will but not many. If you are scared on the river you could try some sort of small bet as a blocking bet but do you fold to a push? Had he pushed the river, with 2.50 more to go after that 5 dollar river bet, your calling. If you felt uncertain, you should check behind. If you felt you had him then bet but like i said, the check on the river is usually them raising the white flag and you want them to call something 1/2 pot 1/3 pot bet on the river.
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Feb 14, 2007 09:29
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blah_blah posted:It's just a math problem right? Pot is about $45; he shoves for $30 more, you get an overcaller, your boat outs are almost always clean, so it's $30 to you into a pot of about $111; your EV is probably about 14-24% here depending on how many boat outs are dead (two+ are dead a lot here); it's probably a fold. Thanks, I should of checked the turn. Pusher had the set of 8's and caller had QTo, OESD . Case J on the river for quads.
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Feb 14, 2007 09:37
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souLjah posted:Thanks, I should of checked the turn. Pusher had the set of 8's and caller had QTo, OESD . Case J on the river for quads. And here I thought you always had to have a flush to overcall there...
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Feb 14, 2007 10:16
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blah_blah posted:And here I thought you always had to have a flush to overcall there... thats what i thought...then i realized i was on cake lol
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Feb 14, 2007 10:40
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Fat Turkey posted:To fold hands that beat us, per chance? Not to give overcards a very cheap draw to the river? I'm with the Turk on this one. I wouldn't call the flop with that many people in without a strong read-- there are people out there who think you have to c-bet if you raised, no matter how ugly the flop-- but I the turn play is the only way to do it here. You're not getting a third barrel out of most people if they don't improve, so smoothcalling to get another bet at the river (if you're ahead) is a bad idea. I'm thinking the vast majority of the time you call and end up facing a river bet, you're well behind. Therefore, calling just gets you what's in the pot now. If that's what you're looking at, a raise here gives you the best chance to win the same amount that you stand to get a shot at if you flat call. And for the record, I've found that even some total mouthbreathers are capable of folding a decent pair with two aces on the board if they don't have one of them.
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Feb 14, 2007 17:02
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souLjah posted:thats what i thought...then i realized i was on cake lol you started the hand with 50 bb's, you flopped a J, theres broadway cards on the flop, its cake poker, and you folded at some point? 
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Feb 14, 2007 18:30
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