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This is sort of interesting because it's full ring and the villain is a goon/therefore not a total idiot like everyone else on cake. Cake 5/10, 9 handed. A bunch of people have short stacks. Jotun665 (goon) and another guy have 1k and I cover. Jotun is TAG and usually pretty nitty but adjusts to cake morons by ocassionally calling down light (sometimes too light against regulars). 3 folds 4th and 5th position limp Jotun in the CO makes it $55 random who has $455 to start the hand cold calls on the button SB folds I make it $200 total from the BB with Q  Q Jotun calls flop 7 6 6 The pot is ~$480 and Jotun has $785 behind. Now what? What do you think his range is for cold calling my 3bet? Does he do it with AA/KK? Will he call an open push with JJ or TT? Does he bet if checked to with any two cards he called PF with? What I did: I check raised his $300 bet all in
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Feb 7, 2007 14:39
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faarcyde posted:This is basically every advice thread on 2+2, and every response I see is bet pot (maybe a little more) and if he comes over the top then fold. I would be inclined to agree because I don't think someone is going to try and push with JJ, TT or 99. However, you are on Cake so who freaking knows bet-folding here is horrible because of stack sizes and pot size. if i bet pot and then fold, i'll be folding getting over 4:1 which is awful.
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Feb 7, 2007 18:39
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That hand isn't the same, at all. There's pretty much nothing similar about the two hands except that they both involve the OP having QQ. Anyway Jotun called my crai with the two other queens.
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Feb 8, 2007 02:03
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Psyduck posted:edit: I really wanna know EC10's thought process behind the check. Would Jotun be more willing to stack off with say JJ,TT,99 on the turn if you check the flop?
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Feb 10, 2007 14:41
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Fat Turkey posted:88 This seems fine. You picked up on weakness, but he still might have the best hand, so you "bluffed" with what may be the best hand.
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Feb 12, 2007 21:02
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blah_blah, what stakes do you play and how long/how many hands have you been playing them?
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Feb 13, 2007 15:14
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souLjah posted:thats what i thought...then i realized i was on cake lol you started the hand with 50 bb's, you flopped a J, theres broadway cards on the flop, its cake poker, and you folded at some point? 
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Feb 14, 2007 18:30
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souLjah posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcTAwsTFxcfCxsTExMbDxIjFwcPFwM0%3d wow this BLOWS (the situation, not your fold). i actually don't mind your fold. once you see that many callers pre you're almost playing your KK for set value. avoid this problem by not playing full ring! 
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Feb 16, 2007 04:14
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toybux posted:Call or fold? folding is gross.
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Feb 16, 2007 17:23
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I'm going to post two very interesting (IMO) hands that I played yesterday at 10/20 NL vs JCarver on cake. They were among the toughest decisions I've had to make on Cake so far and left me feeling like I really should avoid playing pots with JC even if I have position on him. First one: JCarver, as you all know, is a tough LAG who definitely keeps up the pressure. In my experience with him when he has a marginal hand he is usually doing more calling and practicing more pot control rather than betting out and putting opponents to big decisions. But he also obviously isn't afraid of making big moves if he feels the timing is right. I'm not really sure what his image of me is. Nachos said he probably thinks of the goons who play HSNL with him as "thinking stations" (a term JC used to describe Unamuno once) which I guess means a thinking player who can be a calling station but can also think themselves into big folds. I think that description fits me pretty well. As for the table dynamic at the time, I had been fairly active but not too laggy. Two big pots I played were against a fish to JC's right who I was at the table for. I hadn't been very aggressive post flop for the most part, as a lot of my cbets had been taking it down. This was my first HU pot with JC that went past the flop iirc. In retrospect my flop bet was definitely too small. It's $100 into a $190 pot -- should have made it $120-140 at least. But the short stack only has like $600 left, which may have been my reasoning at the time. JC probably noticed the bet was small. 6 handed JC in the Big Blind $2,285.00 me UTG+1 $3,003.25 donk shortack in the CO $659.00 - cold calls like 80% of my raises PF (usually trash but also caught him doing it with KK) UTG folds, I raise to 60 with A J, CO calls, Button and SB fold, JC callsFlop A Q 3JC checks, I bet $100, CO folds, JC calls Turn 7 JC bets $250 into a $390 pot I really wasn't expecting this. The board is dry, so I couldn't think of any draws out and I was thinking about checking behind his turn check for pot control. Then he bets out and takes that option away from me  I was definitely considering folding here as the board is dry and I couldn't think of many hands I was ahead of that would be flat calling the flop and then leading out like this. I call though to re-evaluate the river. River 2 JC bets $686 into a $890 pot So what do we put him on here? Call or fold?
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Feb 17, 2007 18:07
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I think JC calls more with AQ/AK OOP in this spot than he does RR PF. and crackstar, imo the "raise and fold to a push" line usually doesn't work the way you want it to against good players (especially LAGs). and as far as my range, im pretty sure my hand is face up to JC by the river. \/ coming later EC10 fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 17, 2007 |
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Feb 17, 2007 19:27
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for the record, I said both hands are played in a standard way and neither are really worthy of discussion. pushing the flop instead of just calling is ok too, whatever. as long as youll be pushing any turn when you call, the overcaller isnt getting odds with a FD or an OESD.
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Feb 19, 2007 21:33
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Results on hand 1 vs JC at NL 2K: He had 54o, for the flopped gutty and turned double gutter that got there on the river. I folded river but he told me that's what he had later. Hand 2 from playing vs JC at nl 2k. See my post halfway down on page 4 for details I gave on his image, my image, the table dyanmic etc. The most important decision here is the turn. I want you to decide if we should call turn, and if you say yes: then do we call a bet (probably pot sized shove) on the following rivers: 7 2 A K 5game is now 5 handed. JCarver - UTG ($2,938) Me - CO/UTG+1 ($2,343) super short stack on the BTN ($160) donk aggro fish in the BB who will felt flopped top pair 100% of the time ($2,080) Bulldozer in SB ($1,946) JC raises utg to $70 I call with Q 9Button, SB fold BB calls Flop 6 6 7 Pot: $220BB checks, JC bets $140, I call, BB calls Turn Q Pot: $640BB checks, JC bets $500, I ? EC10 fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 19, 2007 |
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Feb 19, 2007 22:17
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crackstar posted:Thoughts? Nachos brought up the push-turn idea earlier in IRC, and while it does make playing the hand easier (it takes any more tough decision making out of my hands); it also doesn't really serve any other purpose. JC is never folding a better hand (overpair, a 6) to my push.
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Feb 20, 2007 04:43
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Psyduck posted:One last comment I swear: Alex, you "accidentally" made the right play in hand one against JC's 54o. I'm reasonably certain that JC is betting $689 whatever the river is. I also agree with your last few points about the frequency of his bluffing and especially the river if he fires again. Now that we've had time to analyze the hand and think about it I'd probably play it different, but in the moment I called the turn because "OMG TOP PAIR TO GO WITH MY FD!" Crackstar is probably right that whatever I do it's going to be hard to play this turn/river profitably. Definitely some interesting discussion produced from these hands, but I should note that a lot of you are completely off on JC's range and general assumptions about his play (i.e. that he 3bets AQ/AK most of the time in hand 1). I called the turn in this hand, the BB folded, and JC checked the 7 river. JC had J T
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Feb 20, 2007 14:41
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Adar posted:I won't comment on hand 1 publicly but PF in hand 2 is really bad. It's not even calling with relative trash; it's the shortstack behind you that's the problem. It's a very basic mistake that costs people way more money on Cake than anywhere else, because shortstacks are so much more common. you're such a nit. Q9s is a fine hand and although id rather not play pots with jc it's not as if the very thought of it suddenly turns me into captain nittypants.
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Feb 21, 2007 03:43
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Looks good, except I'd shove river for value barring some sort of extra nitty read on the opponent.
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Feb 21, 2007 20:28
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id bet turn, but as played im calling river
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Mar 1, 2007 21:39
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Xpost from 2p2 msnl: Villain (DONK79 on cake) doesn't get out of line too much. Only seen him bluff the river with 6 high on an Ace high board after he raised the turn in a limped pot with an OESFD that bricked. Doesn't seem like he reads other peoples hands much, but rather just plays his own. Sometimes limps and folds to a 4x raise with 100bb+ stacks. Our only encounter has been when he opened the SB to $30 and I called with 64s and $2k effective stacks. Flop A25r, he bets like half pot and I call, hit my 3 on the turn and he check-calls 3/4th pot bets on the turn and blank river with AK. Thoughts on the turn check? Standard? Meh? 50/50? I remember thinking at the time that this was the first time I'd seen him raise to $40, and that it was usually $30 or $35. Effective $1200, 6 handed Villain opens UTG to $40, Hero calls (button) with 9 9, heads up to the flop.Flop K T 9 Pot: $95Villain bets $68, I raise to $285, villain calls pretty quick (<3 seconds) Turn J Villain checks, I check River 4 Pot: $665Villain bets $665
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Mar 3, 2007 00:09
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I did fold the 99 set hand. Meh. Still not sure if betting turn is better there.
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Mar 4, 2007 15:13
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Yeah this hand was definitely opponent dependant which is why I included that description at the beginning. I think betting the turn is the "easy" way to play the hand, because obv you're calling a push and if he has a straight you can just say "oh well I have a set I hope the board pairs, variance etc!" Against someone more aggro and potbet-prone (for example, Bulldozer or alchemist on cake) I'd be turbo calling river. The fold was definitely read dependant. His passive play with AK in that blind v blind pot says a lot about him, etc.
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Mar 5, 2007 05:18
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xpost from MSNL Been playing with villain (hijackowi65 on cake) a ton over the past week or so. He calls PF with a HUGE range both in pos/OOP. He floats me more than anyone has ever before. In position, OOP, no pair no draw, whatever. But he also just calls with draws and [censored]. Since we've been playing short handed a lot we've tangled a ton. I've pwned him a few times calling pot bets and [censored] on the river with ace high or underpairs etc. He doesn't check raise a lot so this is sort of a weird spot I guess. Should I just shove over his c/r? Flat call and shove non-heart non-straight card rivers? I obviously [censored] up the turn by not putting another bet in and thus putting myself in awkward river spot. Note that the river bet is like 1/3 pot which is quite strange since he typically just pot bets. Effective $4,300 stacks I raise J J to $70 on the BTN, Villain in SB calls, BB foldsFlop 6 7 9 Pot $160Villain checks I bet $130 Villain calls Turn J Pot: $420Villain checks I bet $300 Villain raises to $862 I call River: 8 Pot: $2144Villain bets $650
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Mar 6, 2007 17:18
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nachos posted:1) How often does he c/r you? There's a difference between he doesn't c/r alot and he NEVER checkraises. Also has he shown it down any of these times? quote:2) When he bets pot as a bluff on river or whatever, how big are these pots usually? Are they your standard lovely little hu pots or does he freely throw around money with no regard? (think micah or mikegreek) quote:3) How does he value his actual hands? What does he do with a huge hand on the flop like maybe a set of 9s? quote:I can't see a drat thing on the river that you are beating. I also don't see how shoving the turn is profitable unless he will consistently call with a worse hand or likes to bluff/semibluff checkraise a lot which you say he doesn't.
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Mar 6, 2007 18:40
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BigJimSlade posted:Hero GAMBOOOOOL? oh gently caress yeah.
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Mar 13, 2007 22:55
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sup QJ and 67. and fold pre flop! -kalensc
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Mar 14, 2007 03:22
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Spechel EDD posted:If I fold in live play all the Greeks and Armenians will make fun of me durrrr
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Mar 14, 2007 03:54
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Xyven posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcTDwsTFxcHFwcTExMfMw4jFxsPFwcU%3d push turn every time as played you can fold riv usually but call sometimes for sure
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Mar 17, 2007 21:30
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blah_blah posted:Am I the only person who thinks that shoving turn with TP nearly 200BB deep against a competent opponent is kind of stupid? they're 150 bb deep and xyven has AA, not TP 
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Mar 18, 2007 17:38
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xpost from 2+2 villain is a habitual floater in position, in like the worst spots. he's been cbetting the same amount on lots of flops so his range is still pretty wide after the flop bet. i couldn't recall seeing him minraise before so i don't really know what kind of hand strength minraise is. he typically vbets pretty hard but obv is also capable of vbetting small. flop and turn are pretty standard i think. i was obv gonna c/f the river but he bet like 1/3 pot so i decided cram time. like/dislike? 100 bb effective Villain posts small blind $10 Hero posts big blind $20 Dealt to Hero [ 7 9 ]Villain raises to $50 Hero calls $30 FLOP [ 9 K 8 ] Pot: $100Hero checks Villain bets $77 Hero calls $77 TURN [ T ] Pot: $253Hero bets $175 Villain raises to $350 Hero calls $175 RIVER [ 3 ] Pot: $953Hero checks Villain bets $300 Hero shoves for $1224 more
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Mar 28, 2007 01:34
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yeah I think you're likely beat, sauce. and in response to replies to my hand: yeah i think the bluff sucks. i think i sort of did it spur of the moment as i WAS planning on c/folding until he bet so small so that i took it as either a thin value bet (most of the time) or bluff (much much less of the time). hence the c/r. i still don't think its that bad, since he has to fold less than 1/2 the time for it to be profitable. fwiw i still think fold > push > call. call sucks big time.
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Mar 28, 2007 17:00
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re: the A6o - are you guys forgetting that you see like 10 hands an hour live? A6o is a monster. pre flop isn't a big deal in the hand at all. quick question on this hand: anyone shove river or just call? i meant to bet $540 not $54 haha. http://www.pokerhand.org/?946478
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Mar 29, 2007 00:22
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sdfsdf posted:is this a good fold? i had A4 no. he has 1 psb left, you have two pair, a ton of his range is hands you are ahead of, etc. protip: dont make a habit of making big folds on cake.
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Mar 29, 2007 23:35
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stars nl 10/20 HU vs "crablar". he is a 2p2er but i dont think hes very good. i guess he wins at nl 2k because he plays nl 2k and 5k but from his posts ive read he seems like a typical massive FPS spewy 2+2er. i think this is more interesting than it appears on first glance because you have to consider not only the possibility that hes bluffing or vbetting a worse hand but..does he call with worse? AK he would 3bet here PF for SURE so basically we're relying on him to make a hero call with KJ/KQ, right? Seat 4: CrAbLaR ($1910 in chips) Seat 5: EC10 ($2735 in chips) EC10 : posts small blind $10 CrAbLaR: posts big blind $20 EC10: K 8RAISE EC10 to $60 CALL CrAbLaR, $40 Flop 7 5 K Pot $120CHECK CrAbLaR CHECK EC10 Turn 5 Pot $120CHECK CrAbLaR BET EC10 , $70 RAISE CrAbLaR, $152 to $222 CALL EC10 , $152 River 8 Pot $564BET CrAbLaR, $444 call or shove
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Apr 5, 2007 18:04
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i'm still not sure about the river shove/call in my hand. i think his calling range is just too tight (trips, 77, maybe K7 but an unlikely hand to be playing OOP in the first place, KQ?, KJ?). i just called this time, and he showed 54o for trips.
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Apr 6, 2007 14:46
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Loveboat posted:I don't want to contribute or post here (frankly because everyone is clueless, and the fact that you idolize donkeys like gobboboy and JCarver supports that theory), but sometimes I can't help myself from reacting on ill advice. lol who is this guy
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Apr 8, 2007 21:01
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what shane said but i really want to emphasize raising pf, ESPECIALLY on a 200 bb table. you should be raising any pair pre here.
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Apr 20, 2007 01:18
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simple posted:I tend to agree with what was said above, calling in this situation doesn't make sense to me. Your read on MP makes me think he is making a move. I would raise to 45, if MP comes over the top, I think your choice is either all-in or fold off the top of my head i dont mind a flat call or a raise here, its sort of dependant on your image and his image. do you think he'd bet-call a raise with 77-TT here? if so, raise. if i flat call, i'd be raising any turn and then vbetting any river. im not too concerned about giving out free cards on this board, but rather maximizing value. you should go with the line that allows you to get the most amount of bets in.
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Apr 21, 2007 01:04
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Sherminator posted:Called flop to re-evaluate on turn... when turn came up all my monies went in
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Apr 26, 2007 20:43
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oh yeah.. pxf is right. it's a fold PF.
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Apr 27, 2007 03:46
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Yeah what everyone else has said. For future reference hands where you flopped 2nd set (or 2nd nuts, or whatever) for 100 BB's on cake shouldn't even really be posted. Sucks if you lost to a flopped straight or whatever, just chalk it up to a standard cooler.
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Apr 30, 2007 18:35
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