I <3 Berserk: Hiatus no longer [~~sunshine ver.~~]

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > I <3 Berserk: Hiatus no longer [~~sunshine ver.~~]

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temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

the godhand exists for people's need for a reason. someone dies in the woods, a monster ate them. someone gets sick, its a demon plague. the godhand are born from the desire to make life have meaning.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2018 04:56

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 18:00

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Hodgepodge posted:

I don't think Griffith has entirely cut off his humanity. Guts and Casca were supposed to be part of his sacrifice, and they're still alive. To him, they were the most important people in the Band of the Hawk, in his entire life. We've already seen him willing to show human qualities when it comes to Rickert as well. Desire is a changeable thing, and he only was pushed to sacrifice them under extreme circumstances in a decision which had to be made on the spot.

I believe Muira has been asked what Godhand's goal is, and he answered "Void." What Griffith is doing has always just been a step towards a larger purpose. He's ultimately a Buddhist character. Perpetuating his power or even his existence has never been his goal. His goal isn't just to change the world. His goal is an ultimate solution to suffering, and ending physical life entirely isn't a particularly extreme solution for a manga villain. Forget Evangelion, that's currently a standard goal for someone like Madara in a children's show like Naruto. He absolutely wants to free humanity from the suffering of existence, to be replaced by something totally abstract that has no reference to life as we would define it.

e: A good place to look for comparison is SMT3, where the world is destroyed and almost all human souls returned to an abstract state at the beginning of the game, and recreation of the world aligned with an ethical "Reason" is the outcome being determined by the plot. Madara's goal in Naruto, and one which shows up in other shojen such as Negima/UQ holder is present as "Musubi." It isn't a cliche yet, but it's obvious enough to show up in manga which are not nearly as philosophically inclined as Berserk.

A possibility closer to what is likely here is "Shijima"

the godhand and griffith won. there isn't anything left for them to accomplish. at this point, they are cleaning up loose ends. griffith has to kill off any belief system (and figure) that would compete with his messianic destiny. falconia are literally killing off pagans. i don't how the story could be more clear.

i think people are trying fit berserk in common tropes when its has consistent, almost 30 year narrative about fate and desire. i think when berserk is finished, it will be easier to see the whole story as complete message, instead like most mangas, needing to invent bigger and badder threats to continue the series.

temple fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Sep 11, 2018

# ¿ Sep 11, 2018 12:47

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

it boils down to if griffith is tied to falconia like he was to the hawks? griffith whored himself to a pedarest to avoid years of bloodshed for his soldiers. he's more complicated than he seems.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2018 17:19

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Hodgepodge posted:

Saying that they have nothing left to accomplish implies that you know what they are trying to accomplish.

i know what they have said and they wanted to bring out a merging of the spiritual world and the material world. demons are now living with humans. griffith is reborn. its to hard image that the bad guys won but they did. a long time ago too.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2018 19:30

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

remember that we are going by what the godhand and skull knight have said. there is no reason to belief causality matters. guts is proof that causality isn't real. as said many times before, the point of the story might be that fate doesn't matter because that's pretty much guts's motto.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2018 03:08

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Hodgepodge posted:

They operate through causality, which means that any plans they have take time to develop.

Causality and the problem of suffering due to desire and attachment are themes which come specifically from Buddhism, and the endgame for a demonic Buddhist isn't "bring about a millennial paradise." It's ending the cycle of suffering, which is ultimately the cycle of birth and rebirth. Emptiness is a particularly important concept in Buddhism, characterized as fundamental to human experience. The ultimate nature of reality itself is an existential void. Especially in Zen Buddhism, this is the beginning point of spiritual understanding. Nishida Kitaro, the most influential Japanese philosopher of the 20th Century, described this concept, Mu, as the "bedrock of Japanese culture."

These themes are fundamental to Fist of the North Star, something of an influence on Berserk. "The strongest thing in this world is nothingness."

This does not, of course, necessarily lead to nihilism. Muso Tensei, "Nil-Thought Rebirth" is the ultimate technique of Hokuto Shin Ken, used by Kenshiro to bring an age of peace. And these are, for North Americans, advanced rather than basic concepts, and this is by no means necessarily a positive feature of Western culture. However, when existential emptiness is the starting point of a fundamental cultural philosophy and coming to terms with this the outcome of mastery of spiritual self-development, nihilism and anti-materialism do become genuine philosophical problems, not simply mere "tropes." This is especially true in a society characterized by the alienation produced by capitalism.

Likewise, Void's plan may not ultimately be malevolent, even in the typical sense of having good intentions. It isn't actually clear if Guts' actions ultimately oppose causality, or if they rather fulfill Void's prophetic vision. After all, Casca's survival from the Eclipse turned out to be necessary for Femto's incarnation.

you should read up on norse mythology. guts and co are in elfhiem, guts has 1 eye and arm, his mentor is a skull, the villain has an army of giants, including a dragon and wolf. pretty on the nose.

fyi:there is no reincarnation in berserk. the dead stay dead.

temple fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Sep 12, 2018

# ¿ Sep 12, 2018 11:36

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Hodgepodge posted:

And? What themes are being developed through this imagery, and do you think they contradict my argument?

There's also Christian themes, what with Griffith being a crucified and reborn saviour and all.

guts and co are currently located in alfheim , land of the elves, connected to the world tree yggdrasil. if miura wanted the story to focus of buddhism, i'm sure he would do that instead of placing everything in a western setting

# ¿ Sep 12, 2018 13:48

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Hodgepodge posted:

Or he could be recontextualizing familiar themes in a western setting, or drawing upon multiple sources of inspiration.

Frankly this argument is so shallow and lazy as to be a little insulting.

im sorry for offending you

# ¿ Sep 12, 2018 15:30

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

We have this discussion every 2 pages (10 years in real time)

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 01:48

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Berserk has had multiple arcs so its resolved itself many times. I think people are waiting for a climatic battle with Griffith but Guts has 2 showdowns with Griffith, pre and post Eclipse. Its matter of what you want the end to be. I'm satisfied with the story and whatever else comes is a bonus.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2019 01:55

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Pewdiepie posted:

I'm waiting for the battle where he kills Griffith.

Guts won't kill Griffith.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2019 13:48

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

I think Berserk is about learning hard lessons. Killing Griffith accomplishes nothing for Guts. Its a revenge fantasy by the readers but I think Guts wants to move on.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2019 14:22

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Harlock posted:

I wonder if some gimmick will show up that Griffith hasn't achieved full power/whatever since Casca and Guts lived and all of his sacrifices havent been completed.

Yeah I think the same. I think that's why Griffith isn't totally evil because she didn't shed all of his humanity.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2019 18:31

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

I like the Wylad as a character but the demon reveal was unneeded and the 97 anime is more shocking with just Zodd and the Eclipse

# ¿ Apr 9, 2019 19:07

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Here we go again, Tim
Here we go again, Eric

# ¿ Apr 10, 2019 01:59

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

lezard_valeth posted:

Double post: omg that was one of the most savage moments in a manga with rape horse and troll babies

The slap heard around the world. Probably one of the best moments.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2019 14:51

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

lezard_valeth posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfD7nScwPb8

its just so genius. like, for all griffith did, that was the most satisfying response.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2019 16:22

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

I had to read https://imgur.com/gallery/RPvx23O because the torrent didn't work.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2019 19:38

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Viridiant posted:

I'd actually love it if Berserk ends up overall being about learning how to healthily cope with PTSD and allowing Griffith's world to fall apart without Guts and Casca having to go through even more pain and suffering. Guts' biggest enemy isn't Griffith, it's his rage and thirst for vengeance. Sating the dog has never been presented as a good thing in this series even if it's gotten him and his friends out of binds.

Griffith already self destructed once, he can do it again.

I think Griffith's kingdom, if it is to be undone, will be undone by power greater than him. The king was able to defeat Griffith. Its possible that Godhand can undo Griffith. The question is what is the Godhand's agenda now that the realms are merged?

# ¿ Apr 29, 2019 13:45

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Gaiseric's kingdom was destroyed and it was the First Empire. I possible Griffith and the Second Empire falls.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2019 13:38

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 18:00

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

actually this is about hebephilia

# ¿ Nov 14, 2019 17:31

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > I <3 Berserk: Hiatus no longer [~~sunshine ver.~~]

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