Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Octorok posted:

From a recruiter's perspective, are there any significant advantages for a potential hiree to have both a BFA from a technical art school like AI and a BFA from a 4-year public university in a similar field?

Also, is it fairly common?

I've been dealing a lot with recruitment lately (although recruitment is such a military-sounding word), and I have to say that someone with a BFA from an art school and a BFA from a university will probably get looked at a little more closely than someone who just did one or the other.

A big problem in any art related field (or at least graphic design), is that you get a lot of job candidates who have spectacular portfolios, but are as dumb as bricks when it comes to anything besides their niche area. For example, we hired a front end web developer a few months ago whose portfolio was mind bogglingly awesome. However, it soon became apparent that he had virtually no communication skills. We had to proof read every single email he sent to clients as they were nigh unintelligible.

In short, the situation you're talking about makes you seem more well rounded to a recruiter. If I'm looking at two people with identical portfolios and one person has a university degree, the other just an art degree, I'd probably lean more towards the university person.






Of course maybe that's just me. :)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

ButteryNoodles posted:

Is Full Sail finally accredited?

Apparently. My best bud is there right now finishing up his bachelor's, so I'll ask him for some more info on it.

But word of warning to everyone out there: Fullsail is only good if you go there and work your rear end off. Apparently their game programming & music industry programs are top notch, but the rest is so-so. Last time I was down to visit I met a bunch of grads who had horrible portfolios and little if no skill because they slacked off but eventually got pushed through to graduation anyway. Not that this is unheard of for art schools, but Fullsail seems to be the definition of it.

If you're going there for a design degree, you really have to be a self starter. For example, my friend's last two classes: developmental psychology, and logo design. Logo design is great and all, but basically they had a month to sit around and do jack (with little or no teaching of the background and theory involved), and then at the end they turned in a personal mark. Developmental psychology... apparently all they did was sit around and watch movies.

So be warned. If you're going to Fullsail they definitely have the equipment, campus and professors to provide you with a great and valuable experience, but only if you're willing to take the extra step and work hard yourself.



... also I hear the same thing about career placement that was stated above. They don't offer much help, although they have a habit of taking the most promising students and offering them positions as TA's for about $20k a year.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

AIIAZNSK8ER posted:

Hey guys,
I want to get better at my photography and decided to learn more about the fundamentals of art and design. My local community college is out of my budget right now at $300 per course. Suggestions on books I can start with? Are there online courses that would fit me? Kind of looking for something a little more structured than wandering through design blogs.

Here's a book that definitely fits in the whole "fundamentals of art" slot: http://books.google.com/books?id=aS...page&q=&f=false

This was the main text of not one, but two of my art history courses in college. It'll give you a good grounding. It's not "fundamentals of art" as in: here's how you make a good composition, here's how you choose colors, etc. But just having at least a basic knowledge of art history will help your work immensely.

It'd probably still be a good idea to take a couple classes if you can swing it, though. It's one thing to learn about the rule of thirds, or to be told "Michaelangelo did some awesome poo poo, here, look at it", it's a completely different thing when you're forced to think critically about it, express opinions on it and back them up, etc... all of which a good class would make you do, and all of which will make you think critically about your own work.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

cheese eats mouse posted:

Are you wanting teach? I heard a master's isn't necessary unless you want to be a teacher.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely not, a lot of the "best" desigeners out there now just have their bachelors. Paula Scher, for example, only has a BFA, and she's an insanely successful designer (granted I don't like her work much...)

Masters degrees are for teaching. Practicing is for doing.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

cheese eats mouse posted:

I've heard they teach mostly programs and completely miss the design aspect.

This seems to be fairly accurate. I've been going through intern applications for the past few weeks, and every single person who's coming from some sort of technical school clearly knows the applications but has zero understanding of any of the theory. In fact we had probably four or five specifically from ITT and their stuff was horrible. Maybe it's not the school's fault, but in every single intern search we've done it's the norm. In general the people with good portfolios are coming from universities and art schools.

Also, all the ITT people submit ugly rear end resumes written in Word with Times New Roman. You're applying for a DESIGN position. Is this really what you want someone to see? Really?

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

RiceTaco posted:

An unfortunate situation.

Short answer is no, that's not what all studios/agencies (whatever you want to call it) are like. Sadly, though, it's what A LOT of them are like.

Here are two case studies for you to look at:

Me: Held a few in-house positions during college, and then stumbled upon a small studio that was looking for an intern with web experience. I fit the bill, applied, and have stayed there ever since. It's a pretty tiny studio (four full time designers, two full time contractors out of studio, and some of the creative director's old partners who will help out on projects from time to time), but its a fantastic place to work. We do or have done work for nearly every type of business/organization there is... from international nonprofits to music-industry related work to local restaurants to political lobbyists. Part of that is due to the fact that we're located in DC and thus there's just a fuckload of EVERYTHING going on in every sector here. The studio space itself is great. The people I work with are awesome. Sure there are occasional projects we have to rush though (usually the client's fault), but for the most part we work at a reasonable pace. In fact its the norm for us to spend double the hours we set aside for design to get something just perfect before we move into production.

All in all, great place.

My Buddy: Interned at a large ad firm during school. They were alright... worked on a lot of super big-name clients, but the work environment was just kinda blah. They didn't put a whole lot of emphasis on doing good design, which looking back wasn't all that surprising (90% of ad agencies never do, it seems). Was super business-ey -- he wore a tie to work every day. When he finished there and got out of school he was immediately hired by a firm of similar size to mine. They were new and had nearly no idea what they were doing. They paid him vast sums of money to head up their web department even though he wasn't really qualified, but whatever. They worked him to death, were generally psychotic, pushed out poo poo design just so they could move on to the next project. His bosses would quote clients ridiculous timelines for massive projects regularly. Despite the large sums of money they were paying him, he quit because he hated everything about working there, and spent some time freelancing. He later landed another full time position at another smallish firm, who, while not being psychotic, still quoted ridiculous timelines, still pushed out poo poo design, etc. He left them as well, as he was now a few years out of school, had nothing but a few freelance projects in his portfolio (everything he did at the two firms was crappy and not portfolio-worty), and he was getting worried that he'd have a hard time finding a job at a good company. I chatted with my studiomates and we decided to take him on as a full time contractor since we were super busy and needed an extra hand.

So that's kind of how it goes. In any given city, probably three quarters of the firms are chop shops. It's not easy finding a good one (I was insanely lucky to slide into the position I currently have), but if you keep looking, you'll find one. For example, in DC there are probably... eh, four or so firms that I think are worthwhile. The rest are either super-mega-ultra studios that just have a branch in DC (ie. AKQA and the like), or suck rear end horribly. If you're working at a super-mega-ultra studio, you need to be prepared to put in a lot of time doing production on other people's designs before you raise up in the ranks enough to start doing some design of your own (or so say the people I know who work at places like that).

My best advice is to spend a weekend looking for every single studio you can find in your city, reviewing their work, reading up on them wherever you can, and then apply at the ones you think sound good. If they're not hiring, offer to buy them a drink after work, just to chat. In-house, in my experience at least, is extremely limiting. Usually you'll only be doing one sort of design over and over and over again. Sure the job's easier and generally fairly pleasurable, but it gets boring and it doesn't force you to improve yourself.
Edit: Also, when it comes time for them to cut a position or two to make their budget, guess who's the first person to go? They're not going to get rid of sales people, accountants, management, etc. They're going to get rid of their designer as they can just feelance that poo poo out if necessary. Also also, all the REALLY cool stuff that comes along will generally be farmed out to real design firms anyway. We've done some big projects recently for businesses/organizations with their own in-house people, but these businesses/organizations decided that for REAL design (if you will), they needed some REAL designers, and thus we ended up doing all the fun work, and their in-house designers were stuck being our bitches. It's a crappy situation for them for sure, but it's understandable.

Keep looking, come up with a list of places you'd love to work, and apply there. Get out of the place you're at now, because unless you're getting some amazing portfolio pieces, you're wasting your time.

kedo fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Feb 13, 2010

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Yeah, everything you said (and have now said in this post) definitely make it sound like a chop shop. Anyone that expects you to create a full flash site in 2-3 weeks is retarded. Anyone in the ENTIRE industry who says what you do "looks easy" is doubly retarded.

Good luck finding a new place. :) Feel free to post the places you're looking so we can all pass judgement.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

qirex posted:

Just get better at interaction design and animation on your own. We have a team of almost 20 designers at my current place and only two of them have formal UI training. To the best of my knowledge there are no really great interaction design programs yet. There's HCI programs that could prove very useful for employment purposes but most of those are either development-based [e.g. HITLab at UW, MIT MediaLab] or very heuristic/analysis heavy like at Berkeley.

For reference I'm a senior UI designer in-house at a large company. I started in print myself.

There's a lot of truth here. Frankly there's no one (that I'm aware of) teaching interactive design well, but a lot of people pretending too (ie. Full Sail and the like).

And quite honestly, for interaction design you don't need a MFA. A solid background in print (and theory) is good enough. Learning some code languages, as you say you're doing, is a great idea and is probably the single best use of your time, although learning via doing discounted work for clients is not such a great idea. That seems like it could end very badly. Maybe work on some personal projects instead?

Other than that, your time might be best spent trying to land a gig with a firm already doing great interaction design so you can learn from them.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Whoops... I posted this in the work for hire thread when this thread has "full time job postings" right in its title. I fail at reading comprehension. Here it is again.

---------------------

e: We hired someone, thanks for those who expressed an interest!

kedo fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jul 3, 2014

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Saveron_01 posted:

You will be surprised what I have seen as a resume in the past, such as someone scanning their handwritten resume (with doodles in the margins) and sending a JPG or sending a Publisher file.

If it was not an entry level position I would jump at the chance in a heartbeat, good luck with the search!

Oh god, Publisher files? No... noooooooo... why! :smithicide:

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

My money is on Adobe releasing a program that's specifically tailored to interactive design in the next couple of years. Not that it'd really be necessary, but the last couple of completely new applications they've released have been becoming more and more niched.

And no, Fireworks doesn't count. :P

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

pipes! posted:

A Master's degree in graphic design is about as useful as the Pope's testicles. If you're interested in higher education, pursue something you're also interested in that gives you more career flexibility (such as a teaching degree) and continue to develop your portfolio on the side.

Disreputable Dog posted:

I second this. I see a lot of "Masters in Design" books come through the door, and not a single one of them has anything employable. It's a completely worthless piece of paper. Arguably less than a bachelor of arts or similar, because at least you'd learn to write and form some kind of critical thinking & writing ability.

I'd actually disagree with this. Or parts of this.

I heartily agree that the piece of paper is worthless unless you want to teach, in which case it's often a requirement if you ever want to advance past adjunct status. The only other time having a masters would be valuable would be if you were trying to get a full-time design job with the federal government – you automatically make more money if you have a masters.

However a masters program can be incredibly valuable, depending on the program. I have a close friend who's doing her masters at SVA right now, and her professors are people like Milton Glaser, Sagmeister, Michael Bierut, etc. She's working on projects that are totally off the wall crazy-awesome, forcing her to work in new mediums, in new styles, etc. She was a "good" designer when she went into the program... but I'd say the work she's producing now is no longer good, it's really great.

Of course SVA's program is one of the best. If you're getting your masters at Podunk University of Central Nowhere, it's probably a waste of money. But not all masters programs are worthless. :)

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

pipes! posted:

It's a real shame all your work is crammed into a teeny-tiny box where it's difficult and annoying to see.

Not to mention there are slews of production issues. For example, absolutely nothing lines up with anything else. Margins / padding change from box to box. Colors are inconsistent. Links are unstyled. There's lots of internal scrolling. On certain pages the layout breaks (eg. http://www.katiemooreart.com/design/goddess.html ) And like pipes said, it's hard to see your work.

Honestly if you applied to a job at my studio, your portfolio site alone would be enough for us to not consider you for a job. Whether or not you mean it to, it screams "I don't care enough to pay attention to detail," which is what this industry is aaallllllllll about. So unless you're only applying to crappy firms who won't care, this is something you should immediately fix.

I might recommend checking out Cargo or some of those other portfolio building sites. Or if you're going to design your own, ask a lot of people to critique it.

PS. Sorry for the somewhat harsh critique. WELCOME TO THE INDUSTRY! :unsmith:



cheese eats mouse posted:

Yea if you can afford the $37K a year price tag. She's still only going to make around $50-60K average (I'm pulling from memory on AIGA's salary surveys).

Oh yeah, I'm aware and I'm sure she realizes this. However if you're looking at it from more of a "this will improve me as a designer and may ultimately allow me to win work for better firms/clients" it could potentially pay off in the long run. If you're doing a masters program where you're not learning a lot, you're wasting your money.

kedo fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Sep 21, 2012

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

TigerRose posted:

Is there any good industry-specific places to look for JUST internships? I check Coroflot and Linkedin, mostly, but there's not much on that level from what I've seen.

http://designjobs.aiga.org/public/internships.asp

You'll need an AIGA membership to view those. If you don't have one you probably should (especially while looking for a job). Behance seems to be another popular spot for postings these days, but in my experience AIGA tends to have higher quality firms posting/postions being posted.

Also, far better and more effective than browsing job boards for internships is going to networking events and meeting people. There have probably been thousands of articles written about this... just Google it, but the tl;dr version of every single one of them is that if you're serious about getting a good position at a quality firm (even just an internship), the only way you're going to do it is by networking. Otherwise your chances are only slightly better than playing the lottery.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Moist von Lipwig posted:

Yeah I kind of thought so, I'll have to see how this plays out, I might be able to leverage it into some freelance or something later. Thanks pipes.

If nothing else, your buddy now owes you a huge favor, make sure he knows it. Favors in business are better than money!

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

My company, [redacted] is looking for a mid-level interactive designer and developer. This job is about a 50/50 mix of design and front end development.

[redacted] I'm happy to answer any and all questions about the position, the studio, Washington DC, etc.

Please do not judge us by the code on our site... it is ancient and I hate it, and if I had more time in the day I would have recoded it already. That's one of the reasons why we're hiring! :)

kedo fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 31, 2015

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

mutata posted:

Get an AA from a community college to be your "permission slip" to work, then take ~20% of what you would spend on art school tuition and use it to buy training materials/take classes online and just work on projects until you get a job.

This is terrible advice unless you are incredibly self-motivated. All you're going to get with a AA from a community college is training in how to use the creative suite. As someone who reviews resumes constantly I can tell you I have never once seen a hirable candidate with that background because they're simply lovely designers who have obviously never given any thought to theory.

So please take that advice with a huge grain of salt. The only way you'll ever become a good designer by doing that is if you spend the equivalent of 4 years in art school working on your own time. Your portfolio is what gets you a job, not a degree. That's why people coming out of these really great design programs don't have problems finding jobs – you basically can't graduate from SVA or MICA with a lovely portfolio, as if your work is that bad you won't be passing classes.



That all being said, MICA has a great program. We've hired two people from there and I've always been blown away by the quality of student work coming out of there. They also have some pretty fantastic teachers. The girl sitting next to me right this minute went there actually!

I also have a friend doing her masters at SVA at the moment, they have an amazing program... assuming you can get in. Learning from the likes of Sagmeister and loving Milton Glaser (!) is something you simply will not get anywhere else.

RISD also puts out great folks, we hired someone from there once. SCAD is a degree factory, as is Full Sail – avoid them.

e: If you're talented you can probably snag some scholarships and/or tuition breaks at some of these schools.

kedo fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jan 8, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

My company is currently hiring a mid-level font end web designer / developer. We're a very small studio where every person has a huge impact. We're growing and working on some pretty nifty projects, but are in need of more interactive help. I'm happy to answer any questions folks might have in PMs or by email [redacted], or just here in this thread I guess.

Generally speaking this is a great position for someone who's experienced enough to hold their own without lots of guidance. If you're looking for more creative freedom, more of a voice in projects/company direction, demanding and rewarding work in a fairly laid back work environment – we're right up your alley. If you want a huge company where you can blend into the scenery and play Facebook games all day, this isn't the position for you.

Posting is here: [redacted] Word to the wise – do not judge us by our current site, it is ancient and soon to be replaced.

kedo fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jul 31, 2015

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

cheese eats mouse posted:

Any thoughts to out of state?

It's an in studio position and we're not much interested in telecommuters for this position unfortunately. However we do use out of state freelance front end devs from time to time if that's your skill set.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

mutata posted:

Portfolio > all. Degrees can get you past the HR filter, but they rarely come up in interviews. The real answer is that it depends entirely on the company you're applying to, the personal philosophies of the HR person that gets your application, and whether or not they're in a bad mood.

To expand on this, the size of the company you're applying to also plays a large role in how important degrees are. Small companies may not even have an HR department. When my (small - 5 person) company is hiring, our designers and creative director are the ones reviewing applications, and resumes are the last thing we look at. However a few of my friends work at medium to large companies (200+) that have large, bureaucratic HR departments that have to tick checkboxes for each person they hire.

So also consider the type of place you want to work someday.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Braincloud posted:

To expand on this a little more as well:

Man you and your company have your poo poo together and now I'm curious where you work. :)

e: Then again, maybe I'm just so astonished because I'm currently reviewing applications and that's pretty much my exact set of qualifications. I am constantly boggled at how many people just send a 12pt Times New Roman .doc resume and zero portfolio.

archwhore posted:

I know this is slightly off-topic, but do you know of any good online portfolio templates to get a novice started?

That's not off topic at all, that's pretty much the entire point of this thread, no?

If you're looking to code it yourself a la Braincloud's advice (which is totally right if you want to do web design), it still depends on your skill level. If you're comfortable with HTML and CSS this shouldn't be all that difficult. Otherwise if you're really a novice I might start with some intro classes before you jump into making your own portfolio. If you're a super novice, maybe try Treehouse to get some of the basics. Otherwise maybe download a few off the shelf templates and see what those folks are using and how you might improve upon 'em.

If you're not looking for an interactive gig, I like viewing portfolios on Prosite because at least they're easy to interact with. Cargo collective is also nice.

e2: I realized you asked for "good online portfolios" and I did everything but give a link for one. You can probably find a ton at Template Monster, however if you're looking for a job at a good firm you should expect people to review your code. If they see a template, that's a massive mark against you if you're applying for a web design gig. I mean come on. If this is you, use templates for guidance only, or else you'll have problems landing a job at a good place.

kedo fucked around with this message at 03:44 on May 14, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Jqim posted:

Hello everyone, it would be great to hear any opinions on my portfolio.

https://www.jqim.co.uk

Thanks

• Slideshare is terrible.
• I might drop the first three items from your "Some of my skills" graphic, as they're sorta bs :P
• Style your links
• Lose the blog unless you plan on putting meaningful posts in there
• You need way, way more work. Wallpapers tell me nothing about your skill.
• Include non-coursework in your portfolio. Do some self-initiated and/or fictional projects if you don't have any.
• House your work on your site, not on some other blog. If I have to click four times to see your work on two different sites... do you think that's good UX?

e: Also your logo is interesting (though I can't figure out what it's supposed to represent oh it's jqim, like your URL – your initials I assume?), but:

kedo fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 15, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Jqim posted:

Is the slide share terrible because its a slide share or would it still be terrible in a more usable format?

Because it's a slide share. The way you have it embedded on the page it's way to small to read, and opening it full screen opens it ... in full screen (bleh). I'd suggest pulling a few of the most important, visually interesting slides out and sticking them on the page like you do here, then provide a link to download the rest as a PDF.

Also as I've been sitting here writing this post so far, I've only been able to load two slides... it's pinwheeling on the third. Slide share is just awful, so awful.

Jqim posted:

The link to a tumblr was the actual submission for a group project. How could i host it effectively myself?

Depends on what your goal is with this portfolio. If it's to get a job, you'll want to give folks a reader's digest version. No one is going to take the time to read through that entire tumblr unless you've already sold them on why you and that project are so awesome. From a UX perspective I want to know A) what the problem was, B) your approach to solving it, C) how effective your approach was. I might be able to glean that information from the tumblr, but would I have the time? Probably not.

Again, taking a sort of magazine-layout approach like this page wouldn't be bad. Maybe stick a few of those wireframes + sitemaps in there, and then at the end provide a link to the tumblr.


Jqim posted:

My problem is I hate most of my work, any tips for getting self initiates projects done that are more than just a wallpaper?

There are a few ways to start on some self initiated projects – the easiest is to just fabricate some for a fake company. I really like seeing this type of work in a portfolio as it tells me the person is so excited about what they do that they do it in their free time. Coursework just tells me you're doing coursework. You can also try soliciting local businesses or organizations you think need some help, I know a few people in school who were able to land freelance gigs to practice on. Granted you may not get paid much, but it's real world experience.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

mutata posted:

Hey designers, if you've done some logo studies for fictitious companies that you want to post on a portfolio, would you just label them as "logo studies" or would you label them, like "Logo for airline" even though prospective clients might see that and think you did a logo for an airline even though you didn't?

Logo studies.

Better to be transparent up front, in my experience. There's nothing worse than being in a meeting where someone says, "Oh, so I saw you did X for Y company," and you have to say, "Oh, Y doesn't actually exist..." It looks like a lie, even if it isn't, and it's a horrible way to start a relationship.

e: "logo concepts" is another good term. Not sure why but it sounds better to my ears than "studies"

kedo fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jun 7, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

There are a few design sites that have sample contracts you can use, but I'm spacing on them at the moment.

However, every single designer in the world should own a copy of the Graphic Artists Guild Handbook. It has pretty much every single thing you'd ever need to know about the business side of design in it. iirc, it also has a sample contract.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Ring of Light posted:

I am going to be starting my teaching career next year teaching high school art at a rural school in the Midwest. I have gotten the awesome opportunity to start an new course in Digital Arts and Graphic design. Software wise we will have access to CS5 on Macs. Our goal for this class is to give students skills that will allow them to get jobs in creative fields and give them a foundation to help them be successful in design programs at the college level. With that being said, I never took any college level graphic design as my emphasis was in K-12 art ed and painting/printmaking. I know my peers that were in graphic design at the time struggled because their classes didn't teach them how to use Photoshop/Illustrator, and they had to teach themselves to be able to do their assignments for class, so it is important that my students get a good handle on those programs. I did learn basic Photoshop and Illustrator about 8 years ago on a pre-CS version of the software so I plan to spend this summer looking into tutorials and brushing up my very rusty Photoshop skills.

As of right now I plan on focusing on basic elements and principles of design, color theory, Phototshop/Illustrator basics and how to use all the tools. Then I think we will move on to graphic design and typography and talk about layout, logo design and different types of fonts. I would like to spend some time on digital painting and photography. Just from reading the last few pages I know I need to do a unit on creating an online portfolio and how to make it user friendly and have good design, and talk about web design and maybe teach them some basic coding.

For students currently in school and graduates from design programs, what skills do you wish you had learned in high school that would have helped you out in your classes or helped you decide if graphics is for you? What do you wish a teacher helped you prepare to help you get your portfolio ready or college admissions? For goons working in the industry, I want to make sure I am teaching students good habits and giving them real job skills. What bad habits can I stomp out early, and what do you think I should I focus on in the class to give them a good breadth and a good foundation? I would also love any book or website recommendations that I could look into over the summer as I am doing my research and planning. Since I have no formal graphic design background, all my knowledge comes from lurking these threads so I would really like to learn more that I wouldn't have gotten from a general design class.

Man I just read an amazing blog post about this the other day but now I can't find the link. But basically if you're not teaching these kids about web design / interactive design / whatever you want to call it, you're doing them a horrific, terrible disservice. Every day there are fewer and fewer really great positions that are print-only, but there are more and more web gigs popping up all the time. A basic understanding of usability and code will soon be a minimum requirement for nearly every position.

Also, I'd focus way more on theory as opposed to the how to use the Creative Suite. Any idiot can become proficient in CS in a month or so if they're motivated, but it takes a deep understanding of design principles and theory to actually become a great designer. It was disturbing to me how many people in my class graduated with terrible, hideous portfolios full of uninspired, trite work. However they were all able to use the Creative Suite. :downs: To date out of the dozen or so people I still follow up with, two have good jobs (the ones who had a solid grasp of theory), while the rest have crappy and/or non-design jobs. Also software changes. By the time your students graduate from college, Adobe may not be king anymore. Knowledge of CS may only serve them for a few years while a solid grasp of theory will serve them the rest of their lives.

Honestly, if they're in high school you should spend the first half of the year off the computer. They have such a long time until they'll actually need to know the Creative Suite that you can put it off for awhile. Teach them typographic theory and basic layout techniques. Make them go buy dry transfer type from your local art store and have them make band posters or something completely by hand. If you plop them down in front of the computer right off the bat, all you're going to get are poorly thought out layouts with lots of unnecessary rendering effects (which is a good habit to stamp out). Printmaking is also an awesome skill for every designer to have, and requires a lot of critical thinking in the conceptual stages (ie. you can't just Ctrl+Z a burned screen if your layout sucks).

Then, only after they've learned how to think about design, put them on the computer.

If you don't have any design experience yourself, I'd recommend reading up so you can understand all the theory and whatnot yourself ahead of time. The Elements of Typographic Style is a great book, and anything by Edward Tufte is worth reading. I'd also just start consuming design from a designer's perspective. Read Brand New to learn what makes a good and bad brand. Grain Edit is great for modern and vintage inspiration.

</soap box>

kedo fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 17, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Ring of Light posted:

One of my goals as a teacher is to tell my students that their work sucks :) My high school teacher was not afraid to say this has a too shallow idea/bad craftsmanship/bad composition/no use of the elements/principles etc, and tell us to keep working on it. Sometimes I hated it when I was really attached to what I was making, but she was always right.

That's great. I think that's probably part of the reason why so many people in my class graduated with lovely portfolios... everyone would treat them with kid gloves even if their work was atrocious (except me because I have eyes). Your kids might have a long time before they have to face the harsh realities of designing in the real world, but better to ease them into the critique process sooner rather than later.


Ring of Light posted:

Is there theory that is specific for web (like these colors look like poo poo on a screen) or is good design on paper good design on a website?

Usability is key for all design, though with the web it's sort of the cornerstone of good design. If someone can't use the pretty thing you created, then your pretty thing is quite literally useless. But a lot of the same rules apply. Good typography, hierarchy, clear calls to action, etc. are all extremely important. I'm not sure of a good article that provides a primer to what's good vs. bad web design, unfortunately, or else I'd send you one. I'll keep an eye out.

Fake edit: Actually, if you were to do the Aesthetic Foundations and UX Foundations videos on this page on Treehouse (which is a fantastic resource for newbie web designers/developers, by the way), it'd probably give you a good general overview.


Ring of Light posted:

I would love to hear what blogs you follow also.

I mostly follow inspirational or very technical blogs, which may or may not be helpful for you. But here are a few things:

Non-blogs
The Vignelli Cannon - Vignelli is kind of the grandfather of good design in the US
Web Design & Development megathread - Lots of good info, but very specific to web. The "Design Principles and Theory" section might be good for you!

Blogs
A List Apart - Web specific, pretty technical
Styleboost - Web design inspiration

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Man I was just talking to a client about that yesterday. I wish there was some way to detect monitor age or type.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Colors are for chumps. Real designers use black and white and nothing else. :colbert:

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Transmogrifier posted:

How companies view people who attend AI I couldn't tell you. A lot of my friends have had no problem landing jobs though.

To be honest, I've never seen an application from an AI student that wasn't terrible. Like any creative program, you're only going to get out of it what you put into it, and if all you're doing is the bare minimum coursework you're not going to learn much and you're going to have a lovely portfolio. Expensive and high ranking schools like MICA or SVA (for example) push their students really hard, so it's difficult for someone to graduate without a pretty solid portfolio – AI doesn't do the same it seems. If you want to be able to compete with the best of the best, you'll have to work on a lot of self-initiated or freelance projects to flesh out your portfolio, and probably also do some out of class reading (theory!) and consuming of design to stay up to date.

Point being, as someone who looks at a ton of portfolios and applications I don't immediately consider AI a mark against you, but the statistics are not in your favor.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

GiveUpNed posted:

I'm being contracted out to write a monthly newsletter for a design firm. I will be given a theme and then be required to research and write the article.

In addition to this I'll also be asked to occasionally write sales emails.

How much should I charge? My rate is $50 an hour. I'm thinking of billing them for 5-6hrs per newsletter and 1-2hrs per quick sales email.

$300 for an informative, well written newsletter feels pretty cheap to me. I'd tack some additional cashola on top of your hourly and then do a flat fee for each email. Probably depends on the size / gross of the firm.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

GiveUpNed posted:

So $500 an email and $150 per sales email?

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me!

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

scarycave posted:

I decided to drop looking for a school right now. I'm just going to try to squirrel away as much money as I possibly can.
Still, I feel like a total bum about not being in some sort of school program...even though like you said, I can pretty much learn most things if I actually take the time to get books, research, etc.

I just feel like I don't have the same drive though when I'm with an instructor.

I'm also probably going to be staying away from any more AI offers from now on.

What region are you in? There are plenty of good art schools scattered around.

e: Stalked your post history. Right in your east coast backyard you have a couple of really great schools. MICA and RISD both turn out consistently good, hireable folks in what I've seen. More expensive than AI I'm sure, but probably worth it.

kedo fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jul 31, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Peacebone posted:

I'm looking for advice and support from people who moved to an area that haven't lived before just to find a better opportunity in jobs.

I'm living in Louisiana right now, but want to move to NY for more opportunity in creative work. I have a background in music industry / audio & film production. Anyways, I've been applying to jobs but nothing is biting primarily I think because I live here, and not there. I'm also applying to more entry level stuff.

I have enough money saved up to live without a job for 6 months. My question is I guess is this a wise move to move to another city without securing a job first? I know it's not going to be easy, but just wanted to get some opinions.

Depends a ton on your resume, experience and industry, but people tend to go both ways on this type of thing. Just living someplace doesn't improve your chances of finding a job, in my experience, unless you're really using the location to your advantage (eg. going to networking events every night, trying to meet with people in your industry, etc). If you're not going to be doing that, you're better off staying put and using the rent money to pay for plane tickets to fly up to interviews.

I have a buddy who "moved to New York to find a design job," but just continued to sit in his (new, more expensive) apartment surfing job sites and sending out resumes like an idiot and eventually just ran out of money. New York is a competitive market for pretty much any creative profession and there are thousands of other people who moved there for the exact same reasons you did, so you have to work to stand out.

Also make sure that you're calculating rent and stuff correctly... The cost of living in NY is going to be astronomical compared to LA.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

You definitely need to pick a path and specialize. If your program really spans the gamut from graphic design to game design, you are indeed going way too shallow into each of these respective fields.

I'm not sure if it's any different in Canada, but between graphic and web design in the US you'd probably want to go with web design. The market for graphic designers is horrifically saturated and thus good jobs are hard to find and salaries are extremely low. However it really depends on what type of career you want. With enough motivation and effort you can still find great graphic design jobs.

And as anyone in this thread will probably tell you – your portfolio is what will get you a job, not the name of the school on your resume. If your current program has good professors and you're dedicated enough to work on projects outside of class, you'll be fine.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Pistol Packin Poet posted:

Not sure if this question was asked before and if it did, I'm sorry for not searching the forums more. But I was wondering if there was a difference between me getting a graphic design degree in an art school and getting one in a public university such as arizona state or uconn.

I already completed four years of school earning a bachelors of science in a completely different field but I would like to go back to learn the fundamentals of art and design. I already have some experience with the creative suite programs and have some freelance experience, but I feel like it would be better to learn in an actual design program. I do have a few pieces in my portfolio but would like to expand my horizons more. I feel like I lack the discipline to teach myself more of the fundamentals design.

Thanks in advance

Quoting myself from a few pages ago because it makes sense in this context.

kedo posted:

To be honest, I've never seen an application from an AI student that wasn't terrible. Like any creative program, you're only going to get out of it what you put into it, and if all you're doing is the bare minimum coursework you're not going to learn much and you're going to have a lovely portfolio. Expensive and high ranking schools like MICA or SVA (for example) push their students really hard, so it's difficult for someone to graduate without a pretty solid portfolio – AI doesn't do the same it seems. If you want to be able to compete with the best of the best, you'll have to work on a lot of self-initiated or freelance projects to flesh out your portfolio, and probably also do some out of class reading (theory!) and consuming of design to stay up to date.

Point being, as someone who looks at a ton of portfolios and applications I don't immediately consider AI a mark against you, but the statistics are not in your favor.


Replace "AI" with "state school," and lessen my harsh judgement a little bit. Basically you can do well in creative program at a public university, but you'll have to work yourself hard. You'll be in class with students who don't give a poo poo and will pass through with hilariously bad portfolios because their professors don't hold their work to a high standard. However you can still get a lot from the program as long as you're motivated.

Good art schools will make you work and practically force you to become a better designer. You'll be able to get the fundamentals from a state school, but if you lack discipline to such a degree that you can't improve yourself on your own, you're going to have a tough time in this industry. Ask any designer whose work you respect how they got so good and they'll probably tell you it's because they're always posting designing.

That all being said, quality art schools generally cost a lot of money (see: MICA, RISD, SVA, etc). If you go to a degree factory like Full Sail or something you're going to be sorely disappointed.

e: Or in a nutshell:

le capitan posted:

Also the main thing with art/design related stuff is that your work/portfolio is what's going to get you a job, not necessarily where you went to school. A good program really helps, but you still need to put in the hours.

kedo fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Nov 8, 2013

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

rocketpig posted:

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I could do with some opinions from people in the know.

I specialise in digital portraits in a realistic style and at the moment I just do it as a hobby. Is there any way I could turn this into a career of some sort? I would love to do this sort of thing for a living but I'm not sure if work in my style is really sort after.

Is this something I could go further with or am I best leaving it as a hobby?

I've also got no idea how much is reasonable to charge for my work. So far if I've done a portrait for someone I've been charging £15 - £20. Does that sound about right?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm pretty new at this.

If you want to make a living out of doing portraiture you need to price it like you're a freelance artist – because that's what you are! How you price a piece should depend on how much time it takes you to complete it and what you want/need to get paid in order to survive (ie. include the cost of supplies, a good wage for yourself, insurance, etc.). I would guess that most people hiring you to do a portrait would rather be quoted a flat price than hire you hourly, so being able to accurately estimate how long a project will take you will be important.

Unless you turn around these portraits super fast, £15 - £20 sounds way, way too cheap. There are some great freelance rate calculators out there, google around and find one that seems relevant to your industry.

:siren: ALWAYS GET A CONTRACT :siren:


e: In terms of your other question: "Is this something I could go further with or am I best leaving it as a hobby?" That's really only something you can decide. If you have enough work to survive on it could be a nice change from a 9-5 job, but freelancing of any sort comes with a whole set of new and different challenges you'll need to figure out.

kedo fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 7, 2014

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

PrivRyan posted:

I'm in a bit of a stint.

I know what I want to do now, which is computer engineering, but I'm a bit discouraged thinking maybe this career is way out of my reach.
I'm in community college right now trying to get my basics in, but I'm wondering if my grades will be good enough to be accepted for an engineering program at some university. I'm definitely not stupid, as my grades are usually top in my class for whatever subject.

What do you guys think I should do?
I'm not really knowledgeable about this stuff, so I was wondering if I should retake ACTs or something to try to go for a higher grade so maybe I'd have a better chance at getting accepted.

You may want to try asking this in COBOL or something... not sure if you're going to get many responses about computer engineering in CC.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Probably depends on the size of the firm. Small, definitely a plus as you'd likely need to wear lots of hats, some of which might lean more towards the business side of things. Large, maybe.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

broken pixel posted:

After wrestling with my situation internally and flailing around for a while, I think it's time I do the intelligent thing and ask for advice. I'm a 23-year-old visual designer who will complete her BFA in Visual Communication this December, and it's been a rough road. My personal life has been a mess for a few years. I love the profession and want to get out there to work like a normal adult, but I'm still not past the numerous road blocks on my path. It's disheartening to realize that with my current situation I still can't work at a proper on-site job. As it stands, it looks like I'll have little to no ability to commute while also needing flexible hours for at least a few months.

While the idea of online freelancing is appealing, I'm aware of the numerous possible issues with the idea; for instance, I value meeting my clients face-to-face to foster better relationships with them. I need to write up a contract (based on advice from Design Is a Job, mostly) as well as determine my work's value as an individual designer from the internet. Does anyone has insight or quality information on online, solo freelancing?

I'm ready to go the whole nine yards to make it happen! :black101: ... or, you know, consider other options if it's not reasonable.

This depends a lot on what you mean by "online freelancing." If you mean trying to use various freelancer websites like elance or what have you I'm not going to sugar coat things: they suck and you likely won't be able to make a living unless you live in a country with an insanely low cost of living. Those sites are where people with no budget go to buy design work, they're barely a step up from logo competition sites. Be ready to see lots of stuff like: "Need a logo, stationery package, interior and exterior signage and menu design for my restaurant, budget is $150." Seriously, they're terrible places.

If you want to freelance normally but want to do the majority of your work remotely, that's not a biggie. But if you want to be successful you'll still need to be able to meet with people or at the very least have phone calls with folks. What you mentioned about being "an individual designer from the internet" is a mark against you when you're trying to win a project. If the person can't see you I've found they have an awfully hard trusting you and an even harder time giving you a deposit check or signing a contract. Showing up, smiling and being able to engage in intelligent conversation about a person's project is often what sells you far more than your portfolio when you're dealing with non-designer clients.

An on-site job in a studio or in house somewhere will be incredibly helpful for your career and will allow you to continue growing as a designer, that should be your immediate ultimate goal. Until you can swing it, I might recommend getting in touch with friends or professors from school and seeing if they can send any work your way. Get in touch with design firms in town and let them know you're available for freelance work and what your skill set is. You might have a hard time landing non-designer clients if you can't meet folks in person, but designers almost always need someone in their back pocket to act as an overflow valve when they have too much work.

And TOTALLY get a contract. PM me if you like and I'll send you a copy of mine. You don't need some 20 page behemoth. Also make sure you have a bomber portfolio site that isn't full of school work. I can't think of any other advice at this point, but good luck!

e: Source for all this – I am a freelancer who does the majority of his work remotely. Early in my freelancing career, but I've been working in the industry for 8 years.

kedo fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Oct 6, 2014

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply