The Terry Pratchett Thread: For the sake of prisoners and the flight of birds

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Terry Pratchett Thread: For the sake of prisoners and the flight of birds

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sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

The_Doctor posted:

You know that Gaiman was more responsible for the Aziraphale and Crowley stuff, while Terry did more of the kids (think of them as proto-Johnny Maxwell & co)?

The kids are a direct rip of Just William.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2012 20:48

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 18:28

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Oxxidation posted:

Raising Taxes or whatever he's planning for Moist would be best. Nearly all of the other characters have been wrapped up to some extent. Rincewind is happily living a desperately boring life; Vimes ended with a literal snapshot in Thud! (I ignore Snuff because it was depressingly bad); Cohen is Viking'ing the poo poo out of space; Granny Weatherwax had a perfect finish in Carpe Jugulum, disregarding her minor role in Tiffany's story, which also finished well.

Moist's story is pretty much the story of Ankh Morpork and its future, and I think it's where Discworld's denouement should be. My main concern is we'll end up with a repeat of Snuff, where the prose was so awful it devalued the characters in my mind.

Spooky, you are me. Moist is a great character. I have flicked through Snuff and it read like a floppy, shoddy first draft. Vimes' story is really over, he should be retired to cameo character.

sebmojo fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 14, 2013

# ¿ Jan 14, 2013 01:49

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Mister Roboto posted:

He's right...the TV adaptations are of a low quality they have no right to be. British humor is world renown yet the specials constantly missed the mark in dialogue, acting, and timing. They're...boring and not funny.

It's actually pretty inexplicable how poorly adapted they were; the material is ALREADY there. The jokes are there. The stories are there. You just need a good director who understands the combo of comedy and fantasy. You don't need great FX to pull off great humor, see Blackadder or Red Dwarf.

The only thing I must assume is that the staff were fans of Pratchett. See, the problem with being a fan is that it doesn't grant you the ability to duplicate the source material's quality. If that were the case, fanfiction would supercede the original material. Their directing and humor-timing skills weren't up to the job.

I think it's just not writing that translates very well to filmed drama.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2013 13:08

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Mister Roboto posted:

The Witches are pretty good. Self-contained issues.

The Wizards/Rincewind are a different style, they're more "wacky adventure" type stories. I don't like them as much but, of course, they're still good.

Reaper Man and Mort are good, though Reaper Man suffers from a terrible B plot.

Vengeance of Pandas posted:

No one will speak for Death?

DEATH SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2013 00:59

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

MikeJF posted:

Trains? Well gosh we never saw that coming.

I have a feeling that he's been so massively Moist-heavy is because the Industrial Revolution was a story that he really wanted to tell and now time is ticking he's hurrying through them in one big slam rather than taking his time with other characters along the way.

I think I'll flick through it at the book store, but I'm not sure I can take the drop in quality. It makes me sad, particularly as I loved the other two Moist books.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2013 03:09

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Hedrigall posted:

http://upcoming4.me/news/book-news/terry-pratchett-raising-steam-cover-art-and-synopsis-reveal

"Change is afoot in Ankh-Morpork--Discworld's first steam engine has arrived, and once again Moist von Lipwig finds himself with a new and challenging job."

So that answers that.

Ooh I hope it's not bad. :smith:

# ¿ Aug 9, 2013 09:30

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

the JJ posted:

I do love Night Watch but there's something special to me about Small Gods.

Those two and Reaper Man, I think, just have a little oomph to them that's present in most of the other novels but not really front and center.

WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?

# ¿ Sep 25, 2013 07:34

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

thespaceinvader posted:

Am I weird for just through-and-through liking Pyramids? I thought it was decent. Not the best, but nowhere near the worst.

I liked it. The super-devout novice assassin sacrificing a goat in the dorm room was hilarious.

I do think assassins that never actually kill anyone is a cop out though.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 23:47

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

I always got the sense they were meant to look like Pratchett and Gaiman.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2013 02:51

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Oxxidation posted:

There is not a 50% divorce rate. That makes this saying stupid.

Think I'm going to give Raising Steam a miss. I genuinely hated Snuff and this is looking like more of the same, only this time it torpedoes characters related to Moist as well as Vimes. Making Money wasn't exactly the best conclusion to Moist's story, but I'm comfortable leaving it there.

This is me too; I loved Thud, Wintersmith and Making Money; I shall track down 'I Shall Wear Midnight' and call it a day. Too sad otherwise.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2013 01:56

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Hedrigall posted:

Halfway through The Fifth Elephant and I don't know if it's going to be my favorite Discworld book but it may end up my favorite Watch book at the least.

I love the setting of Bonk and all the factions that Vimes has to deal with. Cheery and Detritus getting tons of screen time is great fun, I love those two. There is so much else to this book that I'm loving as well: the escalating tensions in the town; all the stuff in the dwarven undercity; the mystery about the empty clackstower; the superb b-plot with Carrot, Gaspode, Angua and Gavin; even the c-plot about Nobby vs Colon back in A-M is hilarious.

Goddamn this is a fantastic book. I want it to never end.

"FETCH"

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 23:54

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

JosephWongKS posted:

Making Money was the last Discworld book I enjoyed. I struggled to finish Unseen Academicals and couldn't make it past the second chapter of Snuff. Is Raising Steam worth returning to the Discworld series? Is it at least back at the level of Making Money?

No.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 11:18

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Mister Roboto posted:

Yeah, I suggest Mort a lot, but if its themes aren't working, I think Guards! Guards! or Wyrd Sisters would be good starters too, they are a bit more "traditional" in their narrative structure.

It's possible Pratchett won't be for you - imo Mort isn't as different from the rest of the line as people are making out. But try a couple of the other arcs like Going Postal or the Guards books. And if you don't like Small Gods you can pretty much wash your hands of his books en masse (which is fine, de gustibus etc).

# ¿ Feb 20, 2014 22:07

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

supermikhail posted:

On that note, why does Susan's employer have to correct herself from "parlor" to "drawing room"?

One is posh, the other is not, maybe?

# ¿ Feb 22, 2014 03:38

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

I actually like Equal Rites. It has the Liars, who are just neato, and lots of nicely observed details about Disc life. It just doesn't quite fit with the other books (though really only in how it portrays Granny W).

# ¿ May 27, 2014 09:14

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Nihilarian posted:

She returns!

Eventually.

In which one?

She's basically Pratchett's standard smart young overly logical female protagonist, but I liked Esk.

# ¿ May 30, 2014 05:01

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

VagueRant posted:

I like Vimes being a total badass, but I can't help but wonder when he got so good at fighting. In the first book he was refreshingly, wonderfully useless. I guess kicking the booze helped?
The audio quality is definitely hella better. I've adjusted for the most part, I think Colon's voice is the most divergent change. Although I do flinch at how he pronounces Angua. (Like "Ang-wah" when Planer said "Angyoo-ah")

Mostly he's cunning and relentless rather than flat out deadly, but there's also Pratchett's standard Badass creep that many of his characters go through - e.g. Granny Weatherwax starts as a bumbling village wise woman and ends as the avatar of witch-hood, Vetinari starts as a standard (if cunning) politician and ends as a basically psychic super-tyrant.

I flicked through the most recent two and decided to skip them - too sad seeing the decline.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 00:21

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Total Meatlove posted:

Don't worry, everyone liked the idea but nobody liked the execution of those or hogfather (which did a little better)

I would need to be convinced you could ever do justice to Discworld books on a screen, I think they're kind of intrinsically a written work.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 23:32

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Mokotow posted:

In "Making Money", pterry described the coin minters as "shed people", living and working in little sheds inside a big hall of some sort. Does anyone know what the real-life equivalent for that is, if any?

It sounds very like what Stephenson described in the (quasi historical) Baroque Trilogy, so I'd guess that's how the minters actually lived.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 22:49

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

AlphaDog posted:

Well now I feel silly.

It's pretty clear from the back cover and the introduction that you're going to be reading a story about a truly awful person. I do understand that some people really don't like that sort of thing, so I'll reiterate what you said in case someone's misunderstood it: Flashman the character is a bad person. Flashman the book, and all its sequels, are not a stories about a bad person who really has a heart of gold and sees the error of his ways and does the right thing, they're about an thoroughly nasty, cowardly person who luckily comes out on top and is completely unrepentant.

e: Those Twain stories are cool, they read a little bit like Pratchett at the ends.

Yeah Flashman is awful through and through, he ends up being sort of heroic by virtue of being the main character in an adventure story so he has to win or he'll end up dead, but he's always drawn as a total fucker. Which in earlier times would include some jolly rapey shenanigans (cf Bond, James).

# ¿ Nov 23, 2014 07:39

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

thespaceinvader posted:

Good Omens works a LOT better if you grew up reading Just William.

Just William is: the Antichrist is the central joke of the book.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2014 13:00

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Hedrigall posted:

The more I hear about Snuff and Raising Steam the more depressed I get. I might just have to leave them unread forever. Everything else is golden though, right?

This is me too, though I got probated for saying that earlier in the thread, haha. Poor bugger just wasn't very good at writing in the latter stages of his illness :smith:

# ¿ May 21, 2015 12:06

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Cardiac posted:

Not very good as compared to Pratchetts normal standard, yes.
In comparison to most other crap fantasy books out there, they were well written and to a large extent enjoyable. It all depends on your reference frame.

This is probably fair, I confess I only skimmed them; he had such marvellous precision at his height that I would have found the sloppiness awful and saddening, knowing the reason behind it.

# ¿ May 22, 2015 01:53

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Hedrigall posted:

I just finished Going Postal. My god, what a marvellous book

Should I watch the TV series? I like Charles Dance but he's just not Vetinari for me. Also, is that Jeff from Coupling as Moist?

Anyway, that's 21 books read, just 20 to go now. The next two books in my ridiculously jagged reading order are Lords and Ladies, then Thud.

Thud is actually one of my favourites, though iirc that's not a universal opinion.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2015 00:31

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Hedrigall posted:

Just finished Thud!, it was good. A drat good mystery with surprising twists and turns throughout, and padded out with good subplots too (Angua vs Sally, A.E. Pessimal, etc). Kind of sad I've read my last proper Watch book, though, as I've heard Snuff is more of a Vimes solo book.

I hope if they ever make that Watch TV series, that they start out of the gate with the later, more complex stories (Feet of Clay onwards) and the full regiment of Watch characters already there. I'd die waiting a whole season or two before the best characters show up (Angua, Detritus, Cheery).

Thud has its detractors but in my head is one of the last of the good ones :smith:

# ¿ Jan 16, 2016 20:33

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

FactsAreUseless posted:

Thud's good apart from the terrible girls' night out c-plot.

Granted. Terry's occasional forays into terrible 'oo-err' music hall style english sex comedy were reliably bad from day one.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2016 07:27

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

ConfusedUs posted:

Thud is legitimately one of my favorite Discworld books.

I always felt that the girls night out segment had two primary purposes. It's meant to show that Nobby is a pretty good dude who has, whether by luck or by Vimes' example, overcome his upbringing. Despite Nobby's well-earned reputation, he's a good guy today. Look past Nobby and you see the good man he has slowly become.

It also shows that Angua and Sally most certainly have not overcome their demons. Scratch the veneers and they're still monsters at heart. They've softened, and they're trying to be better, but they're not. Not yet. They're still capable of monstrous acts, and even willing to be monstrous.

Thud is all about looking beneath the surface. Everyone from Nobby to Angua to Mr Shine to Vimes to the whole war itself, Thud wants you to look past the veneer and see the truth of its characters, the circumstances that they are in, and the world in which they live. The climax of the book is in a cave, for Om's sake. A cave in which, shockingly, the truth was discovered.

I am very rarely the kind of guy who catches subtext, but in Thud, it's drat near regular text.

(slight edit for clarity)

that's an awesome comment, thanks for that.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2016 21:39

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

I often hear Thud! trotted out as the start of the degradation, but I really enjoyed Thud! and it's among my favorites. Then again, I am a sucker for most of the Dwarf stuff.

Yeah, Thud and Wintersmith are good - Thud is one of my favourites too.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2016 10:38

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Screaming Idiot posted:

People give criticize Reaper Man quite a bit for being too silly, but it was one of my favorites. From the hilarious inversion of the heroic undead attacking the evil shopping mall, to the surprisingly touching story of "Bill Door" learning exactly why people fear death, to the antics of the Unseen University faculty, it's everything a Discworld book ought to be.

LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?

awwwww shitttttttttttt

# ¿ Aug 1, 2016 11:33

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

chiasaur11 posted:

Thud has a reference to the London Underground's logo towards the end. Gets less common, and more subtle, but it's too ingrained in the Discworld to go away entirely.

oh, you motherfucker

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 18:43

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

precision posted:

In the last few Disc books he uses the phrase "at speed" so often it drove me mad, especially in Raising Steam.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 22:20

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Bruceski posted:

The Selachi and Venturi families of Ankh as old rival families.

The Sharks and the Jets... it's a couple of steps for each one

jesus christ

# ¿ Feb 14, 2022 04:27

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Terry couldn't help himself having characters becoming more mythic and flawless as they went on, I like early vimes and weatherwax more than the later epic tier versions

# ¿ Feb 14, 2022 21:26

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

You could easily do that with separate recordings.

# ¿ May 21, 2022 10:22

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

YggiDee posted:

Moving Pictures and Soul Music are both pretty high on my list of "this would be hilarious if I got any of these jokes" books. So was Maskerade for a while but I've finally seen some musicals so that one makes sense now.

...

# ¿ Jun 19, 2022 10:52

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Jedit posted:

Nah, it's a fair shout. Maskerade is explicitly based on The Phantom of the Opera, which is best known as a musical, and is about the transition of the form from opera to operetta (which is technically what musicals are). It helps to know a bit about opera, particularly how divas are frequently enormous women in their 40s playing teenage girls because to an opera fan only the voice matters, but you don't really need to know it because the impenetrability of opera to a layman is the joke.

Oh, OK fair point. I remember it as being more specifically opera but it's been a long time since I read it

# ¿ Jun 20, 2022 06:11

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

neurotech posted:

Are there any Terry Pratchett books about thieves/the thieves Guild?

Nope.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2022 06:30

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Beachcomber posted:

The first two books bear little to no resemblance to what it evolves into. I don't know if I would have kept reading. Probably, because I was starved for content, but not certainly.

Ehh, the word play is the same, the world is a little more zany and technicolor, and the fantasy parody is broader but it's still very recognisable.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2022 22:53

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

dino. posted:

Good Omens is sooo good and I’ve re-read it several times. I find something new every time.

There is a decent tv version too.

I'm never sure how many people still know about Just William though, because the kids in that are basically a direct quote

# ¿ Aug 13, 2022 00:03

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 18:28

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Beachcomber posted:

Alternative viewpoint: I'm well on my way to forgetting what I read in it and that's for the best. The negatives outweigh the positives, and I wish I'd left the box closed so the cat could live (angrily) forever.

It's better than raising steam though.

Yeah, it's sad reading late pratchett, i can't do it.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2022 02:29

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Terry Pratchett Thread: For the sake of prisoners and the flight of birds

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