The Terry Pratchett Thread: For the sake of prisoners and the flight of birds

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Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

I pike Going Postal, except the part where all the golems are identical.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2013 18:30

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 22:07

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

-Fish- posted:

That's remarkable pikesmanship. Send my compliments to your fuedal lord.

Woupd you bepieve that was intentionap?

# ¿ Dec 30, 2013 19:55

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

jng2058 posted:

Let's not forget the Gonne and how it changes how you act all the way back in "Guards! Guards!"

That's a funny way to spell "Men at Arms".

# ¿ Jan 6, 2014 06:29

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

My first was A Hat Full of Sky, because I didn't know it was a sequel. After that I went to Guards, Guards! and read the Watch books in order.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2014 07:15

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

I don't think Unseen Academicals is bad.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2014 19:14

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Rand Brittain posted:

The only thing I thought was weird about Thud! was how Nobby gets into a perfectly happy relationship and everybody takes it for granted that they have to split him up because she's too good for him.

It's more like everyone was completely baffled about how it came to pass.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2014 18:20

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Kitchner posted:

Yeah I get that, but if you're totally happy due to ignorance, is it right to life the veil of ignorance and risk less happiness? Or better to stay ignorant and enjoy a happy life?

She thinks she's so ugly that no one will love her and it's tanked her confidence. Telling her what the real problem is might help her regain that confidence, and allows her to make an informed decision about her relationship with Nobby. If she dumped him then she'd be able to take a more active role in her love life, instead of waiting for the one guy who is dumb enough not to realize she's out of his league.

It's a moot point, though, because Nobby dumped her. Imagine what her confidence would have been if she thought she was so ugly even Nobby didn't want her.

:ms:

# ¿ Apr 26, 2014 19:51

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Kitchner posted:

That doesn't actually answer the question, because the question is a philosophical one. She WAS happy, there is no argument with that. By lifting her veil of ignorance, did they actually make her any more happy? Arguably not, but that doesn't mean it was wrong to do.

The fact Nobby dumped her is almost irrelevant as I'm sure the characters would not even conceive the notion that Nobby would dump her.

Ignorance is not a quality to be nurtured; confidence is. You seem to think that finding out she's physically attractive will somehow make her miserable, and I don't understand why. We don't even know whether or not she would have stayed with him.

A relationship where one partner thinks he/she is hideous and the other partner is only dating him/her out of pity is not a healthy relationship. It may not be abusive because it isn't intentional on Nobby's part, but it's a bad situation to be avoided.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2014 20:47

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Kitchner posted:

You're still not getting that is the whole reason it's a question without an answer.

Who's to say that knowledge of the fact that she could have something better is better then actually thinking she is the luckiest girl in the world (even though she's wrong).

I do. I say that. How will finding out that she's actually very attractive make her feel less lucky?

Kitchner posted:

It's just your opinion as there is no objective definition of what is better. The other three girls were all very attractive (in Cheery's case attractive for a dwarf) and yet none of them were as happy as she was, yet went out of the way to lift her veil of ignorance on the grounds that you just described.

Even if she's happy with her relationship with Nobby, that doesn't mean she's happy about everything. It's obvious that she lacks confidence. She isn't happy with herself. The wrong man can turn that into a weapon to use against her, telling her how lucky she is to have found him even as he hurts her. Nobby probably wouldn't have - he isn't really bad so much as petty - but even without knowing he'd dump her for not being able to cook, there was no way to tell how long the relationship would last. What would her next boyfriend be like?

Kitchner posted:

I'm not intending to get a huge debate started about whether it's better to be happy and ignorant or maybe happy and not, but that's the reason it's interesting, because there isn't an answer and it's a matter of opinion. So you'd probably do well to not post as if it's an objective fact that ignorance is somehow wrong.

Ignorance is bad. If you're ignorant about something bad, you can't prepare or avoid it. If you're ignorant about something good, you might miss out on the good thing. Having knowledge is objectively better than not having it, as long as it's knowledge you can take advantage of.

If she really loves Nobby and is happy with him, telling her changes nothing except that she gets more confident in herself. If she decides that she isn't that happy with him, well, now she has the tool necessary to find real happiness (again, confidence), in whatever form that takes.

Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 26, 2014

# ¿ Apr 26, 2014 22:27

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Kitchner posted:

You really don't get it so I'll leave it there, maybe philosophy isn't your strong point.

Yes, perhaps I'm more concerned with smaller matters such as "self-confidence" and "healthy relationships".

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Apr 27, 2014 01:26

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

I just finished listening to the ooold audiobook of Guards! Guards! (perhaps this is heresy in TBBm but I kind of wonder if that's the best medium for it, to be honest) and I thoroughly enjoyed the characters, particularly Carrot, Nobby and Vimes. (Oh and Death seemed pretty funny too.) The Discworld itself and the wacky fantasy stuff, I didn't like quite so much. I was far more invested in the human drama than the dragons.

Based on that, is it worth me giving the next City Watch book a go? Will I get more of the stuff I like? Or will it be more of the stuff I won't?

The Watch books are great, and a good place to start. I definitely recommend reading them.

There's supposed to be a TV series about the Watch coming out too, not sure when, though.

# ¿ May 7, 2014 18:39

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Sam. posted:

Does anyone know when that's happening? And is it going to be adaptations of the books or mostly new plots?

It's going to be CSI: Ankh-Morpork, but with fewer magical crime solving tools.

I believe they intend to stay away from the books.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 00:16

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Kitchner posted:

I think I read somewhere that UU was based on Warwick University, so yes I see that too.

Back to the previous point though, that's why I feel Ridcully and Ponder are different to the "usual" wizard as one is deliberately different and the other is a nerd.

Ridcully has become more like his peers in the later books though.

I think it could be argued that his peers have become more like him.

# ¿ May 13, 2014 16:07

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

YggiDee posted:

I love Feet of Clay to little pieces, you guys seriously didn't care for it?

I liked it.

WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN.

# ¿ May 26, 2014 21:14

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Tardigrade posted:

Presumably because they're earlier books and the characters aren't as developed as they got to be later. Equal Rites in particular felt weird mainly because magic didn't follow the same rules it did in the later books, and the supposed groundbreaking heroine kind of disappears after that book. I wouldn't call it bad though.

She returns!

Eventually.

# ¿ May 29, 2014 23:37

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

sebmojo posted:

In which one?

She's basically Pratchett's standard smart young overly logical female protagonist, but I liked Esk.

As stated by jng, she returns in I Shall Wear Midnight, the final book in the Tiffany Aching series.

# ¿ May 30, 2014 11:42

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Hedrigall posted:

Also Thief of Time is almost required reading before Night Watch, right?

Thief of Time is one of the books I never had a chance to read, but I still love Night Watch.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2014 08:54

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

Jesus Christ, Night Watch got incredibly dark when they went in the cellar of the Unmentionables.

Also I might just be an idiot, but I was very confused about two "action" based things that happened afterwards. Did Vimes cut Swing's throat open with a ruler? Or just smash his windpipe? Like what?
And how did he mess up the siege weapon? He used ginger to make the oxen go crazy I guess? But the other stuff?

Metal rulers can be pretty dangerous! I'm pretty sure he cut Swing's throat with it. He mentions blood coming out of it.

He nailed wedges to the things wheels so that it couldn't roll, then he stuck ginger up the oxen's rear end, which apparently makes them go insane. The oxen tried to run but Big Mary couldn't roll with it, so it fell over.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2014 20:17

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

I finished Night Watch. I think the hype did slightly ruin it for me. It was still good, and it seemed to take a far more serious tone than the previous books and had better writing to go with it...But I feel like I have better memories with Guards! Guards! and Jingo.

Now I'm wondering which one I should go for next. Straight on to Thud! (from the sounds of it, I should ignore Snuff?), or perhaps give Going Postal a try? Or go back and do The Truth? (Is that the one I've heard about where the Watch plays an antagonistic role? Also is that anything to do with the brief reference in Night Watch to arresting the Patrician?)
Ohh, thanks for the asnwers. Still can't understand how a ruler could be sharp enough to get through to a jugular, but hey!
I'm curious as to what you're referring to. Any chance you could post the quote?

Going Postal, The Truth and Thud! are all solid, definitely give them a try.

I'm sorry to hear that you were a bit disappointed in Night Watch.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 15:34

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Hedrigall posted:

I'm about 60% through Night Watch and it's really great. I'm digging the dark tone and getting to see the bad old days of A-M. I kinda miss the modern, big-happy-family City Watch though.

I'm probably a few days off from finishing, and at that point I will have read the following:

City Watch: Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, Fifth Elephant, Night Watch
Death/Susan: Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Thief of Time
Witches: Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters
Standalones: Small Gods, Amazing Maurice, The Truth

Just curious what people think are the books I can look forward to the most? I plan on reading each subseries in its proper order of course, but otherwise jumping around a bit (I might read another Witches book next, then Thud, then maybe jump back and read Color of Magic to begin the Wizards subseries). Any I should try get to soon?

You have Night Watch on your list of books to read after you finish Night Watch. Are you sure you don't mean Thud!?

I recommend Going Postal and Making Money, by the way. The main character's name is Moist Von Lipwig and that will never not be funny.

For the Watch Series, I love The Fifth Elephant.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2014 20:50

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Hedrigall posted:

No I don't. I have Night Watch on my list of read books.

I must have inserted a "to" in there while reading. Whoops.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 02:54

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

freebooter posted:

The next Witches book, Witches Abroad, is OK, but the one after that - Lords and Ladies - is the best of that arc and probably in my top 10 overall. Unfortunately the Watch arc has now peaked, although Thud is still pretty brilliant.

I actually only just read Snuff and Raising Steam after not reading any Pratchett in years, and while I still enjoyed to them it seemed to me that he'd peaked. But maybe that's because I read most of those books when I was a lot younger, and they were actually formative for me, whereas now I'm more widely-read? Or maybe it's because I know he has Alzheimer's and I'm subconsciously thinking it? I dunno! There does seem to be a lot more lecturing going on these days and Vimes in particular has become, at points, tediously infallible. Also the ending of Snuff is largely a repeat of the ending of Night Watch, particularly the main antagonist - can't even remember his name - being a carbon copy of Carcer.

Snuff did a lot of rehashing. For example:

Young wannabe copper tries to arrest a public figure. (Guards! Guards!)
It looks like the most visible antagonist is going to get away with it, but justice is delivered by a street tough who elevated himself to a better position. (Unseen Academicals)
The evil species that humanity used to be in conflict with is perhaps not as inherently evil as it seems. In fact the worst atrocities seem to be committed by humans. (Unseen Academicals)

Those are off the top of my head.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 19:06

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Zephyrine posted:

How would I know? I haven't finished the books yet. Could be spoilers. Maybe it spoils something that turns out to not be a spoiler after all. That still undermines the experience.

Have you finished Jingo?

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 18:16

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

DrNewton posted:

I am reading my first Terry P book. Going Postal. As someone who is a slow reader, I am 60% done and I started last Monday.
I am really enjoying the series. I am debating if I want to continue with Moist von Lipwig story line OR start Same Vimes or Death.

I'd recommend Vimes.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 19:49

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

Just finished Thud!. Now I only have Snuff left and I hear bad things from you guys.

Wonder what I should read after finishing the Watch...I have always enjoyed the appearances of Death...

Snuff is basically a highlight reel of other Discworld books, and it has a few big problems.

Besides the big stuff, the oddest thing to stick with me from that book is the swearing. I think there were a couple of places wear a person would use a swear word they hadn't used before, including Sybil. It felt kind of out of place.

I might be misremembering, though, it's been a while.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 05:02

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

I just found out there was a TV adaptation of Going Postal, with Charles Dance as Vetinari no less. Is it any good? I know they did Hogfather and apparently the Colour of Magic, but I haven't heard much about the quality of the Sky adaptations.

Also totally forgot that the next book on my listening list after Snuff should probably be Small Gods.

There were a number of changes I didn't like, and the costumes were goofy. Especially the golems (they're all identical, to boot)

But the actors were all pretty good. I'd say it's worth a watch, but you should probably go in with low expectations.

Edit: I liked the Colour of Magic and Hogfather ones better, but then I haven't read those books.

Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jul 20, 2014

# ¿ Jul 20, 2014 15:50

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

MikeJF posted:

The Colour of Magic's Vetinari was a crime against humanity.

Which doesn't make any sense, because it was Jeremy Irons. What the hell happened?

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 16:46

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

I was skimming the Discworld Noir LP and just got up to Vimes' appearance in it (spoilers I guess) and that was terrible. Vimes is the one with the yellow subtitles. The high pitched, snippy, un-Vimesy one. (While Nobby is the oddly withdrawn, laid back Northern Irish one.)

And this massively bummed me out because despite the news Jedit posted, I don't have my hopes up for The Watch TV series. Anything that spends that long in development limbo seems a dim prospect. And it seems like it would be a real tough thing to adapt that idea to such a format.

But this got me wistfully googling characters and I found some random dude's three year old blog post on dream casting for the Watch, which is something I hadn't even thought about. And it got me crazy excited. One of his suggestions for actors to play Vimes was Jack Dee and the more I think about it, the more perfect I think that could be. I don't know if he can play tough, but goddamn it the face and that frown and that voice would work so well. (And it would combine two things I really like.)

His suggestion of Liza Tarbuck for Lady Sybil is sort of perfect too. And Nobby pretty much remains an impossibility for human casting.

None of those Vimes really look right to me. There are some good choices though, I could see Hopper as Carrot. Don't think I've seen anything with him in it, though.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2014 19:11

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Total Meatlove posted:

Don't worry, everyone liked the idea but nobody liked the execution of those or hogfather (which did a little better)

I loved Hogfather, but that may be due to the fact that I haven't read the book.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2014 16:16

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Zephyrine posted:

Like "Vimes; The richest man in Ankh-Morpork" I knew he was married wealthy and was a Duke and all but the richest man in the city wasn't the impression I had. He then takes out 100.000 Dollars from the bank and gives them to someone out of sheer gratitude as if it was all just loose change. Which is just such an alien amount for a character like Vimes who when last seen discussing money would squabble over single dollars.

Are you talking about the bit where the guy saved Sybil and Young Sam's lives? Because that seems very reasonable to me.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 14:27

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Zephyrine posted:

I don't think it says that they're in danger but just that things are difficult.

100.000 dollars just seems like such an unimaginative reward.

There should be a part in there where some guys are discussing it in hushed tones, and they say something like "If he fixes it Vimes will shower him in money, but if it goes wrong..." But they refuse to finish the sentence. "Difficult" and "wrong" are words you never want to have to say about a pregnancy, and the medical profession in Ankh-Morpork is noted to be full of quacks and hackjobs.

As far as the reward goes, Vimes is funding Dr. Lawn's attempt to drag medical practice into the century of the anchovy. That takes money.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 17:04

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Wasn't there an explanation in one of the books where the assassins would only take contracts on people who can defend themselves*?

*people worth a certain amount of money are assumed to be able to defend themselves, or hire someone to do so for them.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 17:35

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Stroth posted:

No, it's that they'll only actually kill people who are ready to defend themselves. They'll accept a contract on anyone, they'll just won't kill you when you're helpless. It's unsporting.

*If you make at least 10,000 AMD per year you are assumed to have hired bodyguards who are always ready to defend you. If not, that's your problem.

That's the one.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 19:36

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

eriktown posted:

I had to resort to but I saw it and it was amazing. You should all go and watch it, it was definitely the best.

(Yes, I had the wrong thread. Sorry lads!)

What was it?

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 22:40

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

You'll meet the Day Watch later.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2014 16:48

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

My first was A Hat Full of Sky, which I picked up at my high school library at some point.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2014 17:19

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Blind Melon posted:

It's been a while, but isn't the reveal with Wonse that he works for the Patrician?

VV Something like that. I remember some sort of reveal.

I don't think he gives his name until you see him in his official capacity working for Vetinari, which is pretty early on.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2015 15:23

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

VagueRant posted:

What's the general take on the Hogfather TV adaptation? I just got through the audiobook and have been looking into it a little. (I always thought David Jason was playing Rincewind on TV. Albert makes a lot more sense!)

I liked it, but then I've never read the book.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2015 03:43

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

Flipswitch posted:

The only bit that threw me off with the TV Adaptation of Going Postal that threw me was it completely went against how I imagined the Golems to look. I think even the books directly come out and say that they look the way they do, more human, but for some reason I always imagined them as looking more rocky, bit like an earth elemental. Humanoid rather than human.
Found this online after a quick google, thought it was pretty neat!

I imagined them as being smaller and slimmer but still human shaped. The really weird thing for me was them looking identical to one another, right down to the damage.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2015 15:21

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 22:07

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

SeanBeansShako posted:

Then after Jingo, Feet Of Clay. God I loving love The Watch stuff.

What ever happened to that TV series based on it?

Shooting should start this year.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 00:55

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Terry Pratchett Thread: For the sake of prisoners and the flight of birds

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