Effects and Chain Recommendation/Questions MegaThread

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No Music Discussion > Musician's Lounge > Effects and Chain Recommendation/Questions MegaThread

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

This might not be the right place for this but I dont think it warrents a new thread. Are there any good software acoustic guitar simulators?

# ¿ May 10, 2008 10:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 09:04

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Run Dodo Run posted:

I'm going to assume you don't have any method of connecting your guitar to your computer. Soundcards and stuff are expensive, so you want some kind of USB interface. You probably want the cheapest option, so I'd suggest the Line 6 Toneport GX. (There's a cheaper one, but I can't find it. It might have been discontinued, look it up on ebay or something)*. It'll come with simple instructions, just plug it in, hey, you're ready to go.

Now, I'm just going to go through how my setup works here (I don't use a toneport myself, so it could be a lot simpler). As soon as you plug it in, Windows should recognise it as a USB Sound Card. What I do, is I set the microphone input to the guitar, and the output to my speakers. In my sound card drivers, I set the microphone input to "stereo mix". I dunno if I even have to do this, I don't think you do. Anyway, load up your VST host (Personally, I use Cantabile, you might want to try that too), load up your VST, and strum. Assuming everything have gone correctly, you should hear your guitar. Setup is relatively simple and I'm probably just overcomplicating things, you should be able to pick it up and play.

One problem you may encounter is lag. To attempt to fix this, download Asio4All. You should be able to change the audio driver in the settings of your VST host. The toneport may come with it's own ASIO drivers, if they work fine, just stick with them.

Anyway, this is just the basic groundwork, I understand I'm kinda all over the place in this post (stream of conciousness), so if there's anything you need to explain further, just ask, and I'm sure Agreed will help out (and he knows far more than me ). The main thing you need to think about is connecting your guitar to the computer. The rest is relatively simple.

*There isn't a cheaper one, I got confused.

Going to correct some of this for the toneport. First off the toneport comes with gearbox which is line6s modelling software. The way the toneport works is you plug it in, install the drivers and gearbox using the cd provided. You plug your guitar and speakers into it, open up gearbox, and off you go. There is no lag due to how the software/hardware works so you dont need to worry about that. Gearbox comes with a bunch of amps and cabs and effects and has packs you can download to enhance it. Also if you do want to use your VSTs instead, it has a dry out option on gearbox and the toneport comes with its own asio drivers.

One thing you will need to note though, is that on some intel chipsets there is a problem with the usb chipset not providing a steady enough stream to the soundcard, causing intermittent hiccups in the sound. If you have an AMD you dont have to worry about it, but it is something consider.

# ¿ May 24, 2008 16:07

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

Oh, no, it definitely works, and works really well. If you want to move up to a serious modeler later, you can still use that interface and it'll be low latency and sound good (unless Line6 has artificially prevented it from being used in that capacity, which would be really hosed up and I have no reason to suspect that they would have done so).

The reason its low latency is to do with using gearbox as your modelling. So no, it wont be as low latency with anything else and its not because of some artifical prevention.

Also 3toes make sure you budget for the bass expansion pack for the toneport and make sure you dont mind tweaking your sound to get it right.

PS Agreed, is there any reason you hate line6 stuff so much? I dont really get it :smith:

Stux fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 18, 2008

# ¿ Jun 18, 2008 00:51

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

What do you mean, why do I "hate" Line 6? I don't hate any guitar gear, it's just equipment. I have no use for Line 6 because I have been consistently unimpressed with the quality of their models and effects compared to the strongest of their competitors. For what it's worth, if the choice were between a Boss GT8 or a PodXT, I'd take the XT every time. Not sure sure if I'd take the X3 over the GT-10, though, because the X3 has stepped down somewhat in overall quality while the GT-10 has improved significantly.

And when it comes to a software environment, frankly the Line6 models don't even tread water compared to the heavyweight VST modelers. Guitar Rig 3 Rig Kontrol Edition demolishes the Pod X3 Live out of the box, at the same pricepoint. But of course, you have to factor in a realtime VST capable computer, which rather tips the scales if you don't already have one, eh? Still, the sound quality is what it is. I use Guitar Rig 3 as an example because it's a similarly all-in-one solution, with an integrated foot controller/audio interface, etc.

As to your comment about the interface being low latency because it's used with Gearbox, that's just odd. I'm getting 2ms ASIO latency with live VST processing, which is really close to the theoretical minimum when factoring in A/D/A conversion, using a commercially available sound card. They're not going to be able to work any magic to make A/D/C occur any faster, especially not for a hundred or two hundred bucks - "low as it gets" is low as it gets, you know? But if their interface works poorly when used outside of Gearbox, I'd appreciate that information so that I can keep it in mind and tailor my recommendation accordingly. There are plenty of audio interfaces which work just fine at very low latencies that aren't quite so tailored to guitar, but which would not be useless outside of the host application. Take the aforementioned Rig Kontrol 3 footboard - you could use that as a low-latency, impedance correcting audio interface with any VST modeler, and with its midi functionality you could even use it as a control surface for that other modeler's parameters. It does have enhanced functionality within Guitar Rig 3 (automatic calibration, speedy and easy assignment of buttons to parameters), but the actual functions of it aren't compromised in any way outside of the native environment. Are you sure that the Toneport is?

Not that I suggest you look elsewhere, 3toes - you just need a scratchpad, basically, and it'll be a handy one, with admirable sound quality for tracking ideas and getting songs down on paper... so to speak.

Here is a pretty video explaining the latency thing: http://line6.com/toneport/movies2.html

It wont have any MORE latency than any other AISO hardware with VSTs, its just the tonedirect thing is gearbox only.

Also what kind of bands use the VSTs you use? I'm into stuff like Meshuggah and Bulb right now, and they both have or do use the Pod XT/Gearbox for their actual recordings and live. I just havn't heard of any high gain bands using any modeller other than the line6 stuff.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2008 15:36

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

I don't worry about what acts do or don't use the gear that I use, I worry about how it sounds for me. I do know that Guitar Rig 3 and Amplitube Metal are very successful programs, so a lot of people are using them, for what it's worth. I advise you to download an evaluation copy of Amplitube Metal and see if you think that the Pods can keep up. It's free for ten days, feature unlimited, then it starts making noises.

Edit: Oh, man, I meant to add, disable its crappy cabinet simulation and use a third-party convolution plugin like KeFIR and some cab impulses. Amplitube2, Jimi Hendrix, and Metal all have awful cabinet simulation compared to a good IR - I mean, it's workable if you really get to tweaking it, but it's such a pain compared to bypassing it and using something that just works. For those bands, I'd recommend using the Randall Warhead or Peavey 5150 models, boosted by running its Overdrive pedal up front with the pedal's distortion all the way down and the level and tone up. Gets some upper harmonics going, boosts the volume, but no "distortion" added as such, really tightens things up.

I have tried out I think all of the VSTs you've mentioned and I've been pretty unimpressed with them for high gain work compared to my toneport/pod xt. Although I can see why you might not have liked them, for high gain stuff you really kind of need the metal and FX booster packs and I dont know if you can get them for the gearbox vst or not.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2008 23:56

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

You're welcome to your preferences, of course. I couldn't do that - I am currently in the middle of a transaction to move my G9.2tt into someone else's hands, and its high gain sounds are a lot more authentic than the PODxt's, and it still isn't in the same ballpark as ReValver MkIII. If it's a sound you like, though, and you're really familiar with it being a part of your workflow, then there's no reason to ditch it just because someone on the internet said it's crap.

Question, would you also argue that the Pod's amp models sound better than the AxeFX unit? I mean, there's only so much processing power to work with there and it has to fit not only the amp modeling but also the variety of effects that are possible (not actual, but possible at once - they have to program their algorithms with the hardware limitations in mind), they have to use a fairly linear model and the result is a fairly compressed sound to my ears. This is less of an issue with high gain models given their inherently high compression, but I don't see how you can argue that Guitar Rig 3 or ReValver MkIII have a sound that isn't impressive compared to the pod. They've just got so much more going on in the depth and complexity of their modeling, it's really a different ballgame completely.

Can you prefer the POD anyway? Well, yeah, of course. But it's odd to me, with a lot of experience with every one of the current modeling utilities except for Rocktron's, that someone would put the pod at the top of the list, given the target market, pricerange, and level of sophistication of its hardware and hence software compared to the higher end products.

I havnt heard or used the AxeFX, but isnt that like a $2000 piece of equipment?

With the sounds, maybe its just because of the sound I want or my particular equipment right now, but I definatly prefer what I can get out of my toneport right now to the clips posted and my own experiences. I was unimpressed with the line6 stuff for high gain until I got the extra packs, as before that my options were really really limited to stuff like the Insane amp model etc, while the metal pack adds in some nice stuff like the Big Bottom or the other real amp models.

Although I think that this might just be that we have different ideas of what kind of high gain sound we want. I'm really aiming for a modern sound, something like what an engl or soldano head would produce (again, think meshuggah/bulb), although at the moment I'm pretty held back by my lovely pickups. When I've listened to your high gain clips they definatly sound good, but its not the kind of tone I'm going for, or one I've been able to get in the VST plugins. I can't get it with the Pod either right now, but its the closest I can get until I buy the real thing.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2008 14:27

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

I think I get what you're saying. I will say that if you haven't tried Guitar Rig 3, you really ought to - I wrote off Guitar Rig 2 as mediocre and GR3 blew me away. They went back to the drawing board big time. From what you're describing, I think you'd really like the new Ultrasonic model - it's a model of the Bogner Uberschall, and it is heavy as hell. Capable of very modern sounds, though I tend to go with mid-boosted, scratchy-mutes upper-midrange/treble emphasizing high gain sounds these days (if you listened to any of my early clips with my old Randall or others, you can hear I used to be into a more knotched midrange sound that might be what you're talking about).

But at the end of the day, it isn't about the technology involved, or the complexity of algorithms, or anything like that - it's about whether you're pleased with the sound, and it seems like you're really pleased with the sound you're getting right now, so maybe your best move is not to move off of what you've got until you can swing the real deal.

I will definitely give it another try if its changed that much, but I will probably stick with the Pod anyway just because of using the same tone recorded and live, but obviously, thats seperate to what we were talking about which was pure tone. Thats until I get an Engl Invader of course :v:

Also, thanks to you, I'm going to be trying out some of that IR stuff on my amp models when i record and see if it gets it any closer.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2008 00:10

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

This is going to be a nice change of pace for this thread. I'm currently pricing up parts for a rack for my guitar setup. I need some advice on a few parts. First the rack itself, obviously its going to depend on what size I need, but who makes the best rack shells for live use? I will need a noise gate, I've heard the Decimator is pretty good, are there others worth a look? I've heard of lots of people using power conditioners, are these just the things that you use to power the whole rack from one plug? Wiki says they "clean up" the power but I honestly have no idea what they do. If they arnt the things for plugging everything in to, what are they called?

Also I'm torn on what to do for effects. I can't decide between a few choices, I could get a rackmount multieffects, but also the Line6 M13 looks so god drat perfect (it even has a looper!). Is there anything of similar quality for rackmounts and is it worth getting that + a footboard over the M13? (I know of good multieffects units but I don't know which is going to be better for a guitar rig, the M13 or something like a yamaha or alesis multieffects rack unit). And is it worth getting a seperate wah pedal over the built in in the M13 if I get it, and if so what is a good wah with true bypass?

Finally I have this huge urge to be an idiot and splurge on a full 31 band EQ, but is that really worth it for guitar? I've used EQs like this before but never in part of a live setup for a guitar rig so I have no idea how it would perform in that situation. Lastly, should I bother with a compressor, or am I going to be ok without one?

For context, the amp is an Engl Powerball going through an Orange 2x12 with V30s. I'd like to keep the price down if possible, but I'm not against spending a decent amount if its something thats going to last me for as long as I play guitar.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2008 18:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 09:04

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

I can't say for the Boss, but the Pod can be used to record through a USB connection and works very well.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2008 17:51

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No Music Discussion > Musician's Lounge > Effects and Chain Recommendation/Questions MegaThread