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smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

tehkaewt posted:

How much in fees does Vanguard take in total in a year? Where could I even find that kind of information?
I'm not sure if they do it overall, or just each fund.

Here is the annual report for the S&P 500 fund (the biggie) for 2007:
http://www.vanguard.com/funds/reports/idx500ar.pdf

Assets: $121 billion
Income (dividends, etc): $2.4 billion
Expenses: $142 million ($114 million management, $23 million marketing)

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smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Sometimes I think it would be so much easier to just buy Target 2040 in all 3 of my investment accounts (401k, Roth, taxable) and just forget about all this rebalancing and tilting and stuff.

I wonder if the tax inefficiencies of that outweigh the lowered costs.

Edit: Apparently Target 2040 is 90% stock so not Target 2040.

smackfu fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 18, 2010

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

slap me silly posted:

Even in the last crash only a couple of money market funds dipped below $1 thanks to Lehman Bros, and I don't think they got lower than $0.97 or so before they were bailed out.
I owned some of that Reserve Fund, and it still hasn't been fully resolved. They've returned 98% or so of the money, and now it's basically just in limbo until they officially close the thing. Pain in the rear end since it is the only thing in that account, and it will complicate my taxes once they finalize it.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

slap me silly posted:

Can't tell from what you said - you actually got 98% of the money back, or you only got it back on paper and you have to wait for this to close before you can do anything with it? It's been nearly two years, I hope it's the former. Gah
It's not that bad. I got 98% back, although some of it wasn't until this January and having your money-market funds be that illiquid is not cool. Luckily I only had $5k or so. Other people had millions. The other 2% is in limbo: it can't be sold, and it can't be written off until they close the fund officially.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Sometimes it's really depressing that you can follow all the best advice, be allocated perfectly, be dumping a ton of money into your savings and... a year later, your net worth is exactly the same and you would have been better just putting the money in a bank account.

quote:

Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2010 to 08/11/2010 is -0.1%

(Actually that account is not too bad. It's worse when it's something like a -5% and it wipes out your contributions.)

smackfu fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 12, 2010

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

quote:

How good/bad of an idea would it be for me to use this "E-trade managed portfolios" thing?

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/welcome/mip

Assets: $25,000–$100,000
Annual Advisory Fee: 0.75%

Around $200 a year. Don't do that. If you don't care about this stuff, they make decent products for you nowadays, namely the Target Retirement Funds at almost every brokerage. You can just put all your money in the one that matches you retirement year, and forget about it.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

bam thwok posted:

Has anyone had any experiences with Sharebuilder as their broker? I already have an ING Direct savings account, so I figure it would be dirt simple to integrate and set up automatic transfers, but if there's significantly better options I'd like to know.

Sharebuilder's basic model is "encourage frequent low purchases and hope people ignore the commisions". $4 per trade is cheap but when you are only buying $100 it's pretty stupid.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I know market timing is bad and all that (I read Bogleheads) but I'm wondering if it makes sense to consolidate my investments into US based funds, rather than trying to diversify worldwide, given how bleak the Euro is looking. Thoughts?

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Bad news: New job 401k has limited fund options. 10 asset-class funds plus 10 target retirement.
Good news: Half of the regular funds are Vanguard standards. (The other half are managed "equivalents" of them.)
Bad news: The target retirement are not Vanguard and are made up of the managed funds.

The expense ratios of the target retirement aren't that terrible (0.5%), but I don't think the convenience of them allocating for me is worth 40 basis points.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I finally got around to looking at my wife's 401(k) which I've mainly ignored since she has a pension as well and her 401(k) isn't that big.

I've always worked for large companies with decent 401(k)s. In comparison, her plan with MassMutual is pretty shocking. Every fund has a 0.85% fee. The additional fund expenses range from 0.8-1.3%. I don't even know what to put her existing money into. All the large cap funds are over 2%. Maybe a target retirement at 1.7% total fees? I'm going to have to really do the research on this. Argh.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

monster on a stick posted:

Fourth, if your next job has a 401(k) plan, you may be able to roll the assets directly into that. This can be worth it if your new 401(k) plan is better than the old one.

Wouldn't it also have to be better than the best IRA (probably Vanguard)?

Otoh, having one less account to keep track of is nice, and you have to research your new 401k anyway.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

That's the nice thing about after-tax accounts.

Also the fact that if you contribute too much for your income, that's your problem, not Vanguard's.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

What's the history on the back-door Roth IRA? It seems like such an easy loophole to use once you hit the limit.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

How would anyone notice if you contribute to a Roth IRA but are over the income limit? It's not part of your tax return or anything.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Form 5498 is filed by your IRA trustee/issuer.

Fair enough, so I should actually pay attention to that.

I have a weird situation. I put $5500 into my Roth IRA as normal. But due to getting a new job and being married now, we likely are over the income limit. (Not a bad thing.)

So I have to recharacterize to a traditional IRA but I don't have one yet. And Vanguard won't let me open a new one without initial funding. But if I fund the traditional IRA, I'll be over the annual limit. So not sure how to deal with it. I asked Vanguard a few days ago but they haven't responded yet so maybe I just need to call.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Especially for an emergency fund you don't plan to use. If you lose some of the interest in that rare case, no big deal.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Does a Roth conversion make the original IRA go away or does it have $0 balance?

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

This looks like the strategy: https://charts.ussif.org/sam/strategy_profile_display.php?StrategyID=198#general_strategy_information

Essentially just gives each company in the Russell 3000 a score, comes up with a cutoff, and then invests in the remaining companies in a way that tries to match the original index. So it should match a Russell 3000 fund until it hits a company that fails the test.

And basically excludes: alcohol, tobacco, military weapons, firearms, nuclear power and gambling products.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

If you get a good long term low maintenance renter, it’s a pretty easy gig. Then you brag about it to all your friends and they want in on the sweet easy money.

(Alternately, you brag about how easy it is to be a section 8 slumlord. “I paid 50k for the property and the government guarantees I get the rent!))

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Why does Merrill Edge require your account to be approved? It’s just a brokerage account right? And they don’t seem to do approvals on weekends. Grr.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Yes, that plus the signup bonus. This account is at Ameritrade via Scottrade and will probably end up at Vanguard but might as well get something out of it.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

If I have a 401k from my old job, I can only transfer that to a traditional IRA, right? But having a deductible IRA messes with our ability to do backdoor Roth, if I understand correctly. So I’m effectively stuck with the old 401k?

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

A lot of “hazardous duty” government jobs have similar 20 year service then draw a pension setups. Think police or prison guards. It’s pretty sweet if you can make it 20 years, since there’s nothing stopping you from getting a second job to supplement the pension. And usually you get health care of course.

The real scam is to find a job that is classified as hazardous duty but is not very risky.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

paternity suitor posted:

Might not fit your needs but I like Quicken. Mint is better for budgeting, but complete garbage for investments IMO

Do they sell Quicken desktop as a subscription yet? Not that I like paying for subscriptions but their old model where they wanted you to buy a new copy every year was a pain especially since they broke the online updates for each version after a few years.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I have some single stock positions I’ve had for many years with large long term capital gains. My long term goal is to have that money in mutual funds and minimize capital gains. Assume $50k in gains and 15% tax rate.

Plans I can think of:

* Sell it all tomorrow, pay the $7500 out of the proceeds and move on.
* Sell some (5%) each month and spread the tax burden over a few years, maybe cancel out with some capital losses when the market is down.
* Some fancy trick to defer the taxes until we are in the 0% tax bracket (in retirement).

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

H110Hawk posted:

Why are you worried about paying long term cap gains? Just pay the piper unless you have something you can tax loss harvest. Unless you know that next year you're going to have no income all year or something 15% is an amazing rate to pay.

Mainly fear of messing up our otherwise fairly regular taxes. I think we are already above most of the income limits though.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I switched our taxable account to BOA / Merrill mostly for the transfer bonus. I wouldn’t do it again. The trading app isn’t anything special and it was a bit of a pain jumping through all their hoops to get all the bonuses. And I had to call to get the monthly $20 BOA bank account fee waived and that took 30+ minutes on hold with “premium” support (which I’m still not sure is a real thing.)

Really just reminded me why I don’t like businesses that charge fees for everything, even if they waive them for you. Still have to watch them like a hawk.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Sobriquet posted:

I’m in the same boat. I think you need to call vanguard to “recharacterize” the contribution to non-deductible trad IRA, then you can convert it to Roth. I don’t know the tax implications.

When I did this a couple of years ago, I think it was a paper form I had to mail them.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Apparently my wife’s 401k has a 3% fixed income option, and that’s the most popular investment option of her coworkers, which is why the fees on the other investments have to be so high. Hmmm.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I got really down this weekend and was thinking about selling on Monday and getting into something safer than stocks since I figured things were only getting worse.

If I had sold, I would have missed the 10% gain yesterday.

Just my periodic reminder not to time the market.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

If you work for a public company, and you can personally affect the stock price, they probably give you stock as part of your compensation.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

jjack229 posted:

I agree that having phase-out income levels and then a method to bypass all that anyway seems like an odd way to design a system.

From some half-assed research, it seems like the change that took effect in 2010 was to remove the income limits from conversions. This was sold as a benefit because an IRA conversion generates short-term tax revenue.

Here a 2006 article that doesn’t acknowledge the backdoor Roth: https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2006/10/summary-of-the-tax-increase-prevention-and-reconci

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Idle musings: If you are mostly in equities, and they are long term and have sizable capital gains, does that complicate rebalancing when you get closer to retirement age? I’ve held some index funds long enough that they are currently up 300% so even the 15% rate is a lot of money.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I own some Vanguard Star fund (VGSTX) in my Roth IRA because I bought it ten years ago and never bothered selling it. It seems like I just got 5% of my holding as capital gains and the price went down 5% to accommodate. Anyone know what’s up with that? If it was in a taxable account this would be an unpleasant surprise.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Yeah, 5% capital gains that got reinvested so since it is a non-taxable account it was basically meaningless.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

On the employer life insurance topic, worth mentioning that if you go high enough of a salary multiple, they will often require a physical just like “real” life insurance.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Another back door Roth question: what’s current best practice for how long to leave it in the trad IRA before transferring? I know some people do it ASAP while others think one month or six months makes it look more like a legitimate two step transfer. But I vaguely remember that there was some recent ruling or tax bill that legitimized the backdoor Roth and might have changed this?

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Perfect, that must have been what I saw.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

The concern was that it seemed like the IRS could apply the step transaction doctrine to it and consider them disallowed Roth contributions and penalize everyone at some later point:

quote:

"a series of transactions designed and executed as parts of a unitary plan to achieve an intended result ... will be viewed as a whole regardless of whether the effect of so doing is imposition of or relief from taxation."

You can definitely find reputable articles from a few years ago that suggest that depositing to an IRA then immediately converting to Roth was a bad idea.

quote:

The caveat is that there’s no hard-and-fast rule about “how long” it takes to avoid the step transaction. A prudent rule of thumb in the context of the backdoor Roth contribution is to wait a year.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/how-to-...ction-doctrine/

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smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

obi_ant posted:

I usually get tax forums for savings accounts if they’ve made over $10 for the year.

But do I get tax forums for money that I placed into the market (ETFs / mutual funds / a few individual stocks), which I haven’t sold, but have made money? I know I’ll have to pay capital gains tax when I sell, which should generate a tax form.

Last year was the first time I placed money into the market that wasn’t a ROTH IRA or a 401k, which is the reason for the newbie question.

The other thing to be aware of is that the investment tax forms tend to come out later than the bank tax forms. We have most of our 1099-INT already but none of our 1099-B or 1099-DIV.

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