ManOfTheYear posted:

tbp posted:

This is so far removed from my frame of reference that it sounds insane to me lol

Fabricated posted:

AnJ ending

TriffTshngo posted:

There is absolutely zero chance that Kamogawa is going to teach Ippo how to box intelligently and if you legitimately believe that might ever happen then you might be more brain damaged than Ippo.

Eustace posted:

The weirdly sycophantic crowd hive mind is something that's always bugged me about this manga.

Fabricated posted:

spoilers

Monaghan posted:

I like how someone finally loving addressed That Ippo's motivation of "being strong" is stupid. It was pretty obvious when he became the Japanese champion that he was strong. A better motivation for Ippo would be helpful.

ManOfTheYear posted:

Picked up Ippo from where I left it a couple of months ago, at chapter 753. It's been pretty good to this point, honestly can't really complain, but is this gonna turn into poo poo at some point? This thread seems to be all about that.

Shindragon posted:

Yeah something like that, hence why I said he did bullshit that wouldn't fly in the ring. He literally bounces on the loving ropes.

gently caress trophy 2k15 posted:

It's not going to get any better is it?

DamnGlitch posted:

What in gods name made you START with the woli arc??

Centzon Totochtin posted:

I read because of occasional dick jokes

Asuron posted:

Demented racist what? Mind showing some examples of that.

Asuron posted:

Skipped Woli entirely because I heard how dumb it was. Glad I was correct

Huzzah! posted:

But how will I know if Takamura is making a dick pun?

Shindragon posted:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Nope.

It's sad to say but Ippo's fights are very mudane and boring. Everyone else is just better. I mean I have yet to see ONE bad Takamura fight.

Asuron posted:

This is the biggest issue with all of Ippos fights. Most of them rely on his opponent completely messing up or doing something stupid that gets him the win. That's why the fight with Sendo is satisfying, because it finally feels like he won on his own merits instead of his opponent just being stupid.

His fight with Gonzalez is one of the best examples of that kind've stupidity, where Gonzalezs style completely locks Ippo out, Ippo has no other options because he's only ever been trained to rush at people and take punches, so the only way he can conceivably win is if Gonzalez starts trading blows for no reason. Which he does. Luckily that fight ends with Ippo losing, but the only thing I'm taking away from new chapters is that he's not gonna recognise he needs more options than just rushing at his opponent and hoping he gets a lucky punch in, but rather that he's going to rely on "spirit" to keep himself up through all the punches,which is just stupid.

I mean the only way he ever wins against Ricardo Martinez with that style is if Ricardo does something stupid like Gonzalez did, which if the writer does is a really big copout because we've seen him just destroy boxers like Date who had tons of options to use against him, unlike Ippo, and he just destroyed him.

Kal-L posted:

"Going back to basics" could mean that Ippo is re-learning the basics of defense, which he obviously sucks at: feet movement, swaying, dodging, blocking. Like 85% of the punches he eats could've been avoided with a side-step or swaying to the sides, but NOOO!, he has to keep moving forward.

Hypocrisy posted:

I liked the Gonzalez fight a lot aside from when Alfredo decided to stop boxing but at least it ended right.

The Lord of Hats posted:

And I've reached up to chapter 918, which is the last chapter on Batoto. I've found 927 onwards, but judging by the jacked up right hand, the defense vs. Kojima is probably going to be short enough that I'd mostly miss the fight which... well, I probably wouldn't be missing much, the way things are going, but still. For the sake of completion, you know? In any case, we've had Ippo vs. Woli and Itagaki vs Karasawa.

Ippo vs. Woli... oh boy, where do I even start. Ippo vs. Sisphar is bad, but it's short enough that it doesn't make a huge impression. Maybe it's just to show that Ippo is able to tangle with the OPBF champs effectively, taking Jimmy out in 4 rounds. The Gedo match is bad, but at least the badness is only *really* apparent in retrospect. So while I would say Jimmy's fight is where the real quality drop starts, it's only really Woli that makes it clear we're not getting off of Mr. Bones' Wild Ride any time soon. Probably the only good thing I can say about it is that Kamogawa gives Ippo clear advice for a change, instead of delivering it in the vaguest way possible.

Reaching this (sort of) endpoint prompted me to look back at some of the fights, and it made me realize a couple of things. Firstly, holy hell did the art decline. It's hard to notice when you're just pressing through, but it definitely looks markedly worse than it used to. The other is that the fights I've really enjoyed--Mashiba, Sanada, Shimabukuro, Sawamura, Take--the fighters did all have a gimmick--the flicker, the Hien, sheer oxygen capacity, counters, infighting positioning--all were very firmly based in the principles of boxing. You could see what made them what they were, understand the logic behind it, and it all impressed upon you just how deep and complex a sport boxing can be. But starting with Jimmy... the fights stopped being about boxing. Jimmy just brawled. Gedo was a single dumb trick. And Woli... Woli isn't even close to boxing. He just pinballs around the ring and punches Ippo a lot. And everyone oohs and aahs about how much of a genius he is. The strategy for beating him--get some body blows in and slow him down!--doesn't show up for multiple rounds, despite being boxing 101. No, Ippo and Kamogawa start by trying to corner Woli (despite being told "He is dangerous in the corner, guys" beforehand), then once that starts failing spend a round or two going OH NO WHAT DO. And despite the win being painted as a matter of actual boxing experience, the difference isn't that Woli makes some dumb rookie mistake, like going for something he really shouldn't, it's just that Woli does not understand what body blows do (then again apparently Ippo doesn't either). Furthermore, we're expected to believe that 11 lovetaps--there's practically a 'paf' sound effect--over the course of two rounds is enough to insidiously wear him down and stop his feet. Ippo doesn't come close to looking good in this match, and you can't be impressed by Woli either, because he isn't boxing god loving dammit. Is the problem that Jyoji just can't think up any more believable tactics for Ippo to face? Are we really just doomed to a bunch of awful fights until things finally end?

Itagaki vs. Karasawa has similar problems. I keep going back and forth regarding Itagaki... I disliked his last match, but his hyper-focus crazy eyes, plus his slowly building jealousy of Ippo have me liking him again. But the actual match really suffers from that fact that like Woli, Itagaki starts teleporting around the ring because EXTREME SPEED. A few chapters after the match, we get to hear him explain "nah, I'm not actually going that fast, I'm just really good with my feints when I'm focused like that"... so why couldn't we have seen that in the match? That's way more interesting! Show us the technique that goes into a feint like that! Don't just present a Naruto fight and then explain it after the fight's already left a bad taste in our mouths.

But really, the problem is that the manga just isn't about boxing anymore. I mean, broadly speaking it is, but it never tries to teach you anything. We don't even really get to see Ippo doing the kind of focused muscle training that he did before, like how he had to build up his toes and ankles super hard for Sawamura (at least, I think it was Sawamura, that was the Dempsey Stop, right?), or oxygen capacity for Shimabukuro, or anything like that. As much as I complained when I was writing about Ippo's title defenses, I'm realizing in retrospect that those matches were all pretty good. Sure, Ippo himself was boring, but it was fun! But now the boxing is gone and there is just nothing left anymore.

Fabricated posted:

Also Ippo got the idea everyone had like 3-4 years ago to add this mysterious thing called an uppercut to the dempsy roll.

Asuron posted:

Why is he even trying to improve the Dempsey Roll. It wouldn't work on the guy who beat him or Ricardo, so why bother improving that instead of improving the fundamentals. You know maybe work on fundamentals that don't require him taking a billion punches to the face, especially from outboxers like Gonzalez or Ricardo who already did that to him.

Coughing Hobo posted:

I think the point is that Ippo is so singularly transfixed on using the new Dempsey that he's ignoring the hundreds of opportunities to remove organs and vaporize his opponent, whose name I can't even be bothered to remember.

It's an actual, legit reason for Ippo to be playing off his game, instead of the whatever thousands of other nonsense reasons we get for Ippo taking massive damage just so he can activate his Samurai Spirit for a turnabout win.

Peel posted:

It makes sense and it is effectively communicating what it wants to, the problem is it fits poorly with the dramatic tone of the series. This isn't, or hasn't been, a story about tragedy, dissatisfaction and failure. Hence the speculation that something has changed the author's outlook.