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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Hadlock posted:

Amazon sells a leviton combo smart plug + GFCI for $29 I've already ordered one two* I'll just install it probably Sunday. In line is neat but I've already proven I'm too dumb to not drop a toaster in the bathtub so the permanent solution is probably a better bet

*I just realized the outlet above the utility sink in the garage isn't GFCI

Is it all on the same circuit? You mentioned only having one outlet "on that side of the house/garage/something" - you only need one right where the circuit first starts from the panel assuming it's a home run from the panel to that outlet. Then you're good to go for the whole circuit. Or use a GFCI breaker.

I wouldn't bother putting your fish electrolysis machine on a GFCI yet though - it's just going to trip it. (I'm suggesting you throw it away or move it indoors first.)

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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
I presume this is a frame portrait of a gfci. Acrylic on canvas. $200.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Hed posted:

Nice. NFT available?

Yes, 1 BTC. Send it over and I'll mint you an NFT.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Something, somewhere, is leaking current to ground. You can pay an electrician hourly to solve this. It's around $1000/day.

Next step is to unplug everything on a given breaker, but let's start easy. Do you have any 220v appliances with 3 prong outlets? Unplug those and see if it goes away.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

internet celebrity posted:

My only appliance with a 3 prong 220 plug is my dryer and unplugging that and/or shutting off the breaker doesn't affect the reading or the noise whatsoever. Should I unplug all the appliances and everything on each circuit repeat what I just did? I feel like it may be related to the basement light/outlet wiring given what I've seen so far, that breaker causes the biggest change and makes the most EM noise. There are also a few (unused) ungrounded 2 prong outlets on that breaker.

Yes, start with the biggest change and work from there. 2 prong outlets shouldn't be effecting it - they don't even have ground. 3-prong-220v can leak voltage L1-G to power the 120v control board is why I suggested it. Otherwise yeah, start testing.

Have a laptop with a video camera? Setup your meter on a zoom call. Join it from your phone. Unplug things and watch it go until it auto shuts off and you have to go turn the meter back on.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


:toot: They were finally able to get started on this today! Nothing is wired up yet, and they have 3 more batteries to install Monday pending some change they have to ask the fire department about. 2 of the battery modules were supposed to go on the block wall to the left but some last minute measurements realized a mistake in their initial ones. Now we're going up. They need to verify the vertical clearance required by the FD - Enphase (and UL) say these specific modules can do 6", standard plans/prior generations required 36" or something. I don't care how high they go, that's my neighbor's and the electricians servicing them's problem.

The hilarious wire coming out of the conduit in the ground there was a whoopsy doodle once they were done moving the main panel and couldn't figure out where the heck the pool pump was getting its power. It will be cleaned up / figured out by the time final inspection rolls around. Yes we have gotten 3 feet of rain so far this year and yes that is a NEMA 3R rated splice, why do you ask? What are you a narc?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

devicenull posted:

That's really interesting you have a switch between the battery and system controller, and no rapid shutdown switch

My install has no switch between the battery and system controller, and a rapid shutdown switch outside. That battery disconnect isn't doing much, because if you've got the IQ8 inverters they'll continue to make power even w/o the battery.

Why are they doing a bunch of individual batteries? Enphase makes brackets/covers to wire 3 of them all in one unit.

The plans have both, there's an AC disconnect box between the batteries and the controller. There is a RSD that is drawn but not yet installed that is coming off the controller. :shrug:

Can you post this bracket thing? Because "I don't know" is the answer.


H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Feb 25, 2024

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

ah the 5p batteries...looks nice!
they don't get joined like the previous model, the 3 and 10t

i think it's a little unusual there's a disconnect between the controller and batteries when there's a breaker in there that will serve as a disconnect as well as a separate rapid shutdown switch but that's AHJ's for you

ROJO posted:

Yeah my city required disconnects between both my batteries and the solar combiner and the system controller, despite having basically redundant breakers and the rapid shutdown :shrug:

Yeah it's odd but of all the BOM costs a lockable disconnect is so low on the list of stuff it didn't even dawn on me that it was weird until you pointed it out. I guess it's to guarantee to input voltage from the batteries while working on the controller? On a high level I understand wanting a visual indicator that 20kwh w/ 30kw output is isolated in case the internal controllers decide to start outputting despite an ordered shutdown.

ROJO posted:

edit: also my controller is apparently super hosed and my whole system is in shutdown until enphase can come out with my installer on the 4th to fix/replace it

:ohdear:

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

hoping for a good outcome. when i did an install with an enphase tech/engineer for a unique setup, he had us set up a relay the wrong way and it ended up frying a transfer switch board
i also had one system controller be completely dead on arrival in a similar way, during commissioning it went into shutdown and never came out. thinking there's something up with whatever they're using for that low volt rapid shutdown initiation.

:ohdear: :ohdear: Guess I should have asked about a bypass mode.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

the shutdown mode still lets line voltage through to the loads, it just renders the solar and batteries inoperable. theoretically i guess it could fail in a way that has it trying to power the loads from empty battery but i haven't seen it. there's a tiny switch underneath a "don't touch this without talking to support" sticker that i think toggles it between on and off grid mode without the installer app getting involved.

compared to generac, whose failure modes were more "you're up a creek", the enphase issues i've seen were usually limited to the initial install window and were more annoying than anything else. costly to the installer and not the customer

Yeah, my plan if this stuff decided to poo poo the bed was to immediately tear that sticker off and make sure any actual technician who showed up knew it was intact when they arrived. :v:

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


City or FD said "no" to close spacing, or they got bored waiting. I do not care and had told them a week ago they could do this if they wanted. I cannot see this from any direction I use the house, there are mature plants blocking the view from the road.



So close. Final hookup + testing is monday or tuesday weather permitting, final permit inspections are all Thursday at which point I can submit my PTO. I need to find out what they did there with that WR GFCI outlet which is powering the pool pump. Ironically if they wound up wiring it into the controller to go "down" when the grid goes down that would be hilariously ideal.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

kastein posted:

I see a couple code violations (but not big ones)

Conduit must be strapped even if it is under the length (30in IIRC) allowed between a box and the first strap.

Good thing you're no snitch. :toughguy:

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

the poor bastards who had to raise those ~110lb units that high

Yeah I said was happy to wait on the answer because I certainly wouldn't want to have to hump them up a ladder, or worse have to service them up there. They laughed and said they don't care they aren't super heavy. :shrug: I imagine the head guy had uh, paperwork to do that day and couldn't make the job site.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

kastein posted:

What? I didn't see poo poo

(I just thought you might want to see it and decide if you are going to have them fix it before inspection, some inspectors may let it slide or not even know, I see this violation all the time and have committed it myself)

(I appreciate it, I'll bring it up in passing when I go by on Monday. Our new city inspector is more "by the book" on a lot of stuff since he's both good at his job and undoing a lot of previous inspector lack of fucks. Thankfully he's also reasonable, these electricians do a lot of work around the city and have precisely 0 advertising. Their website is a single picture titled "website.gif" which looks like someone's kid did it to make a 1-pager for print.)

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
8am yesterday:


Whoopsy doodle, warehouse apparently picked a Gen2 controller instead of the Gen3 it said everywhere. No one noticed until (I presume) they went to fire it up with Enphase on the phone. Electrician calmly and politely and definitely without any swearing worked it out with the warehouse and tada:


Seeing them side by side no wonder no one noticed until they saw it in the software. At 1:00pm I swung by and:



:dance:

I'm insufferably excited about this. They broke for lunch literal minutes before, because the meter ticked over from 2 to 3kwh exported, which is 20 minutes of generation. I went and turned on the heat pump + pool pump in celebration. Inspection is Monday for all 4 open permits (HVAC, Electrical MPU, Electrical Battery, Solar Generation) and they're also going to integrate the batteries then. It's all wired up but they're off pending registration. After that they submit for my PTO. Fingers crossed. And they are in communication with the field office re: exporting, once the application is accepted pending inspection they don't care if you run it for "testing" while pending the PTO, they just won't pay for the power. My meter is on "the list" now. It's tempting to go buy a 7.82kw level2 car charger for $300 and just let people charge their EVs while the sun is shining until then. gently caress em.

H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 9, 2024

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

shame on an IGA posted:

we might be looking for new three-phase contractors at work after our new 300HP air compressor was hooked up with two phases in one conduit and one + neutral in another.

That is super fun. :stare:

Why is it wrong? Are they... inducing loads in each other? Or is it simply wrong conduit / conductor sizing?

quote:

https://telemet.com/convert/index.php?js=tablas&table=12&l=en
HP/Volts/Amps/Wires/Conduits:
400 480/3 480 (6) 300 MCM+(2)#1 GND (2) 3" or (1) 5"

:stare:

H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 9, 2024

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

all the time i had the warehouse pick gen 1 for gen 2 (or powerwall 2 for powerwall+), but honestly mounting the thing is too far along in the process to not put some blame on the electricians. they had to ignore tons of papers taped on to it talking about incompatibility and the the fact that there aren't hardwire comm ports anywhere in the gen 2. it's something you should pick up on as you're planning the runs but all's well that ends well. it's up now. they just have a pre-drilled gen 2 controller

This seems like something I would do on my zillionth install. Why would you be reading all those papers? They definitely share some of the blame - they should have inspected their pallet before signing the BOL at delivery - but looking at those two units which I've probably installed 50+ of in the past year? Those papers are all getting torn off and tossed. :v: When you expect something to be correct it's pretty powerful. Maybe they've otherwise been lucky with their distributor picking the correct units? (lol)

Plus:

devicenull posted:

That's on enphase IMO - they put loving cling wrap stickers on your batteries, they can't do one on the front of the controller saying "this is a gen3 controller"?

Put a big dumb logo somewhere. There's tons of space.


babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Yup.

Having two phases in one pipe and one phase in the other meant that the pipes themselves had significant induced current, especially at the ends.

:stonklol: That was my guess, but... Whew boy. At least you can wirelessly charge your car near it.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
:awesome: I just went and killed the breaker to the utility meter in total darkness and the lights stayed on! I went and charged up my laptop, connected to the Envoy wifi, found out my spectrum modem is fried out, and fired up the heater! I was cozy and warm and basically giddy with excitement being isolated from the grid. I didn't leave it like that since I can't actually track the charge yet and don't know how much they have on them so I normalized before I left.

Sadly the default webserver on the envoy system is actually baseline secure? So strange. Sadly it doesn't show any metrics without a login. Clever though, they allow signed tokens to get you in.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

SyNack Sassimov posted:

Hold on, since when do Enphase inverters work without a grid? I thought they all needed to be grid-tied (as in, be receiving 240 from the grid) to actually function which was why they were basically worthless. Or is that just the microinverters and you have an actual inverter?

The feature you need is a "Neutral Forming Transformer." I have microinverters, but it was pitch black out. This was the batteries firing up.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

too far along in the process to not put some blame on the electricians.

Welp I take back a good portion of my defense of the electricians.

H110Hawk posted:

found out my spectrum modem is fried out

And my oven and my whole home humidifier and the garage door motor is blinking an error state.

They missed a neutral hookup.

They owned up to it immediately and did a site walk to touch all the active electronics, and already have people scheduled to fix the various things and "I owe you an oven, you guys let me know what matches your current one and we'll take it off the invoice and install it for you."

Everyone is insanely glad that we weren't moved in yet, beyond the base safety issue or "whoops don't touch anything metal" that could have easily eaten 10k more electronics. I made a joke with him about not touching the water heater, it's hot. He laughed. :v:

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Yeah I don't have a reason to, if someone had been injured I wouldn't be talking about it here but with an attorney. Handing them my copy of their proof of insurance I have on file.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

that's a big gently caress-up. it probably cascaded from the equipment mistake leading to redoing all the connections of the system controller.

100% that's when it happened. Thankfully they're just making it right (so far) without any prodding on my part. It's all words at this point, but if they can't source the board on my KitchenAid KEBK276SSS 27" double oven with bread proofing, hidden element, and other interesting features it's going to be what's at a glance looking like a $4000-4400 retail writeoff. Plus the humdifier control board. Plus the garage door opener which is currently TBD. If they balk I'll remind them how lucky they got to not have my house of sensitive eletronics horrors moved in, which could easily add $20k to that bill depending on what and where it fried out.

Not to mention if anything dies in the coming 12 months I'm giving them a call. (Dishwasher, microwave, fridge, pool pump.)

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

it's easy to sit here and go "i never did that" but any time i touch service equipment

And this is why they're not getting a free pass, this is some sloppy work. Someone should have been double checking the big wires. Or at least come back after lunch and go "hot, hot, neutral" to every segment with a jiggle before firing it up. Unlike the gen2 vs gen3 thing which like, something something cast the first stone.

That being said...

H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Mar 15, 2024

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
This never gets old. It was cold out so I flipped on the heater for "free" this morning for the 2hrs I'm going to be here.

Fire inspection and presuming that passes city final this week. City has already verbally approved it but they changed some SOP stuff in the past month to re-order some things so their final is after FD signature, which makes sense.

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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Yeah I don't know yet what I am going to be doing in average usage so I will need to tweak it potentially. I do not have grid sale mode enabled yet but around here it should in theory help prevent rolling blackouts with enough participation. I downloaded the export pricing spreadsheet but can't make heads nor tails of it. Plus I can't tell if they actually cut me checks with nem3 because of all the bullshit.

But I do know for a few hours a day in August / September I see like $2/kwh export rates. Ironically when it's most likely above the operating temperature of the batteries...

Right now I am consuming like 1-2kwh/day from the grid and exporting a ton. Once we move in that export number might flip. My daily generation on a cool sunny day is 70kwh. How much have you seen that reduced in hot summer months?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Extant Artiodactyl posted:

in this area, summer always beats winter for production. enphase had specific training for installers in the cali market but i never took it.
all our battery installs were in garages, outbuildings and basements except for exactly 1 where we had the customer sign a waiver. it just wouldn't charge below freezing and it wouldn't do much of anything below 0. it never got hot enough here for long enough to have any overtemp service calls

I assume summer will be higher most days, but we get a few weeks of truly awful temps here. Just curious where we're going to wind up. Thankfully it's north facing and so should be out of direct sunlight by the worst hours.

FD came by today and blessed the system. He said it was exactly how he likes to see them. I spoke with him briefly as he was saying this is how he would setup his system, all outside, away from everything. I told him how "I want it outside so I have a chance of escape before it burns the house down." "Exactly. Escape time is much higher outside." He said they generally only see them burn due to damage, they only see damage in garages/driveways, and 3ft of clearance does nothing against a modern SUV/Truck. Overall made me feel really good about my choices and insistence on design and location.

Apparently there are some sketchy contractors who try to get all the shutoffs inside... right next to the batteries. Apparently he just came from a re-inspection where the job site looked identical to the initial inspection. I would not want the level of scrutiny that amount of disregard for a punch list would result in. :stare:

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

However, I will stress that those experts are used to communicating with homeowners that don't know anything about how their house works. If you come to them with more technically accurate language, they may well not believe you, and they'd certainly better not trust you (e.g. when you say that an outlet isn't receiving current).

If you just want to be a good client, you should just try to lay out what your experience is, how that experience deviates from what you expect, and what you've tried to remediate the situation. For example: "I flipped this switch, and the light didn't come on. Normally I expect the light to come on when I flip the switch. I tried a different bulb, and that didn't work either. None of the breakers in my panel are off, and nothing else in the house appears to be broken."

In addition - If you are confidently wrong you can wind up causing frustration for everyone. The second part of this is the goldmine though - knowing enough to be able to do the full consumer-side troubleshooting workflow.

That being said, the book suggested is a great resource, which includes some of the worthless physics -> real world conversions. The other element of it is mechanical wear and recognizing sounds and smells. Outlet has scorching on it? Doesn't retain normal plugs? Makes Snap Crackle and Pop noises despite the outlet not eating a bowl of Kellogg's Rice Crispies breakfast cereal? Smells acrid? That's great information.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Coolguye posted:

yeah it's not just that, i'm also considering house resale. i intend to live in this house for a while yet, but i do not intend to die there so i can reasonably expect i'm gonna sell it eventually. the concept of trying to turn over loving app access to the buyer so they can mess with the lights just fills me with utter revulsion.

The buyers aren't going to care in the useful life of the devices regardless. They can factory reset it just like you could.

Coolguye posted:

I am going to redo the lighting in a house I have recently purchased, and I would like to replace the fixtures with some LED flush-mounts (or something of the sort). I want to be able to control the warmth of the light so that, for example, from 8pm-midnight, it is a warmer ~2500K, but from noon-4pm, it is at a more natural 5000K.

The issue I have is that the warmth selector is a hard switch. It is soldered onto the circuit board and provides no real way to work a timer into it.

You could probably crack it open and solder leads onto the switch contacts. From there you can use whatever you want. You should meter it out though because that's only OK if it's on the low voltage / DC side of the equation. If it's somehow on the mains side then that's a non-starter.

Coolguye posted:


Here's the kicker: I specifically want to AVOID using smart functionality controlled by apps if possible. I have personally worked on a few of those codebases, and bluntly they are all horrifying.


Go on...

There is a middle ground though, home assistant and zwave stuff can be automated without internet access / on an isolated vlan.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Coolguye posted:

i am not sure what voltages i would be working with

I would stop right here and not do this as your first project. Everything you've said is that you need to do something "out of the box" first because identifying and messing with something that isn't intended to be messed with, where if you mis-identify something it's 120VAC and swearing or fire.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Coolguye posted:

i guess i'll wait to hear what motronic's solution would be with a roll-your-own smart solution and Home Assistant. i'm a computer toucher by training so that's potentially way more up my alley.

Basically I would start looking at what devices HA supports and go from there. Fire it up on whatever you have laying around. It's very much "so you're a computer toucher and want something more than a printer and a gun." I did that and managed to break my HA install in under an hour. I deleted the VM and went back to my printer+gun setup.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Qwijib0 posted:

On the complete insanity end of the spectrum if you're going to be running low voltage to a bunch of switchable fixtures you could use DMX controlled CCT ones and then a dmx to Ethernet bridge to manage the color temperatures, letting you do smooth fades and default brightnesses at each time of the day

Please do not advocate self-harm on the forums.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
If you get lucky it might be pulled into a rats nest in the attic!

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
I don't know if this is an optical illusion or what but this looks like a jiggle away from contact. I know it's been fine for 50 years or whatever and none of those wires are touched or easy to move but whew boy.

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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

SpartanIvy posted:

That's the neutral lug so it is actually very important that they are touching! :v:

:v: I definitely did not miss that the first time I looked. Nope.

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