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stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

Vinlaen posted:

However, don't outlet boxes need to be attached to a stud or something like that? If so, how do you attach the box because you will only have a little hole exposed for the outlet itself, right? (plus the cover of course)
Finally a question I (unfortunately) know the answer to very well.

Go to your local hardware store and ask them for an "old construction" or "existing construction" receptacle box. These have little wings attached with screws that flip out and clamp the box to the wall from the back. All you have to do is cut the appropriate hole, push the box through, tighten the bolts attached to the wings, and you're good to go. After fishing the wire through the box, of course.

gently caress, beaten

stealie72 fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 29, 2009

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stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

Bong Goblin posted:

How easy is it to replace a light switch with an electrical socket? I've googled around, but am having trouble understanding if it's always possible.
Depends how it's been wired.

If the circuit leading to the light passes through the switch, and you have both the hot and neutral in the box, then yeah, it's not difficult to do.

If the circuit leading to the light doesn't pass through the box, and the switch is just connected to an extension of the hot (black) for the light, then no, you can't.

Having said that, what situation are you in where you want an electrical socket where a switch is? And also, are you planning on leaving the light powered at all times, then? Plus, just about anyone's code is going to have a problem with you doing this (not that outlets aren't put on lighting circuits, especially in old houses, but still, generally not a good practice).

While you CAN do it, it's probably not a good idea.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
Apologies in advance if this has already been covered, but It's a long thread:

I've gotten conflicting advice about whether running romex through PVC conduit is code, or if I have to use THHN.

The attached two-car garage on my new house currently only has one(!) outlet in it, and I'm putting my workshop out there, so I obviously need more. It's got finished walls, so I really want to surface mount something, because pulling runs through the attic and down into the walls seems like a lot of work for a garage, and I don't really want to deal with fishing through insulation.

My plan is to surface mount a box on top of the current in-wall outlet box, then run PVC conduit horiznotally along the walls, at about 4 feet off the floor, with maybe 6 total two-gang pairs of outlets (two pairs on each wall).

I'd much rather use PVC because I don't have experience using metal conduit, and it seems like a pain in the rear end to work with, comparatively.

So am I OK using Romex in PVC here, or do I need to go out and get THHN?

I live in semi-rural Ohio, and as far as I know, we don't have any deviations or special local requirements that differ from the national code.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

kid sinister posted:

Indoors, running romex in conduit is legal. However, it's a complete pain in the butt to fish it from box to box, especially if you have any turns. In those situations, pulling individual wires are infinitely superior. Your situation actually sounds like a great one for wiremold. Maybe even put in some plugmold for a workbench?

If you're in a semi rural area, check with your county regarding code questions. I would doubt that they vary much from the book.

Last thing: garage outlets are required to be GFCI protected. You could use a GFCI outlet in the new extension box and use it to protect all the others.
Definitely will have a GFCI as the first plug in the series. I thought Wiremold was silly expensive compared to PVC conduit, but I just looked it up and it's not terrible. Thanks for the suggestion!

As for the PITA factor, I've always cheated when I use PVC and build the conduit around the wire. I do things like figure out that I need 5 feet of wire on either side of the corner, put the elbow in the middle of 10 feet of wire, then cut the conduit straights and slide/glue them over the wire into the 90 degree piece, then push one end of the big L into one box and the other side's box onto the conduit assembly. The gluing is a little more of a pain, but it beats pulling the wire through a 10 foot long 90 degree turn.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
I changed out my poo poo $7 ones with $20 dual sensor models and went from an alarm every time something dripped into the bottom of the oven, to no alarms even when things are visibly smoky from searing.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
Not sure this is the right thread for it, but:

I'm trying to figure out if there's any way to get variable color temperature LED lighting without having to get bulbs/fixtures that I control from my phone, since I'd also like my kids, visitors, etc to be able to control it.

I'm looking to add lighting to a very dark dining room, and for the most part, I'd like some very white sunlight bulbs, but would also like the ability to switch to dimmer more yellow lighting, since it's also where our fireplace is and we hang out in there a bit in the winter.

All I can figure out currently is to install two sets of cans on different switches, one with each type of bulb, but that seems really dumb to have to do in 2017.

Anyone have any thoughts?

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
Thanks for all the input. Provided they don't suck, those phillips bulbs may be exactly what I'm looking for! I'll get a test one at HD.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
Yet another GFCI question:

My garage had one lonely duplex outlet in it, which was a GFCI, and which I removed and wired in some more plugs to give me more outlets around the garage (using appropriate romex, outlets, conduit, etc). Where the GFCI was is now just a junction to feed the new outlets.

In typical "gently caress the guy before me" fashion, the garage shares the circuit with the outlets in the dining room that it shares a wall with. I get it, sometimes you just want to draw power from an easy place, but come on, guy. It's not installing a living room outlet on the other side of the dining room outlet.

Never had any issue with the GFCI outlet that was in the garage that I replaced (tested fine when I hit the test button and otherwise provided power), but I said to myself "you know what would be cool? putting a GFCI breaker on the entire circuit instead of just feeding off the single GFCI duplex outlet."

So I wired up the breaker for that circuit, and it pops as soon as I turn the main breakers back on. Tried the trick of turning off every other breaker and it still pops.

My understanding is that the only thing that can be causing this is that somewhere between the breaker box and where the garage wiring starts (where the previously working fine GFCI used to be), something has a neutral and a ground crossed. Is there anything else that could be causing this? Is there an easy way to see if a ground wire is carrying a load at the box or outlet? I'm a bit wary of jamming my multimeter into outlets looking for a crossed wire. Will one of those plug-in outlet testers tell me if a ground is carrying current?

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
Yeah, hot and neutral from that circuit into the breaker, ground remaining in the ground, breaker pigtail into the neutral bus.

Hadn't thought of disconnecting everything I added since obviously I would never screw up. Will try that and see what happens.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\
Hey wiring thread, I have what may be an impossible question:

A nonprofit I work with runs a residental program for new moms that are recovering from addiction, and as part of dealing with COVID, they have had to reduce the use of their common spaces.

One of the ways they did this was to put a mini-fridge in each room (I think there are abut 25 rooms) for the moms to store food, breast milk, etc.

Because of this they are being told that they need to upgrade their electrical service, but have not had anyone out to give them a quote for this.

Of course, they have a donor that wants to pay for this but needs to know RIGHT NOW (by Monday) how much they need, and they're not getting an electrician out there on that quick of a turnaround. The person I'm talking to doesn't know what the current service amperage is, or what they need to go up to, so I can't answer that, unfortunately.

So: Anyone have any sense of how much it is to get a new drop and panel installed in a commercial-ish (think like a church) space? $10K? $50k? It's residential so they don't need anything crazy like 1000 amps of 440 or anything.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

corgski posted:

Could be 5k, could be 50k, could be 200k, could be more. It depends heavily on the state of the building’s wiring and what else will be needed to bring it up to code with the new service.

Ha, this, this right here is what I was afraid of, especially because I have no idea if what's beyond the panel is 100 year old knob and tube or 20 year old romex from when they upgraded.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

H110Hawk posted:

If they used to have crt tv's in every room and now have lcd's a mini fridge isn't going to put them over. Has anyone clamped the circuits to see actual draw to these rooms?
I have no idea. I said almost impossible question because I gave all the info I have. But i was also a little surprised that 25-ish mini-fridges would put a building over the edge.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

H110Hawk posted:

It's more that 15 of them might be on a single chained circuit running down the hallway.
The odds of this are somewhere between probably and highly likely.

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stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

H110Hawk posted:

And thus you have your answer. A commercial electrician can quickly answer this. Who told the church it needs to be done and on what evidence?

Either way the gambler in me would spitball it at $50k being the most likely if you seriously need a new panel and multi floor multi room runs with iffy access at best. If the building is old enough to have asbestos risk this could spiral quickly.

Don't forget drywall repairs.

How's your grant writing? Are there house the homeless dollars around?
Luckily they were able to talk their way out of RIGHT NOW until they can get some bids. Because yeah...

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