Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

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grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

angryrobots posted:

If that's legal, it shouldn't be. Way too easy for the unknowing next owner of the house to remove the panel cover and bypass the interlock.

Please install a separate transfer switch, for the safety of the workers trying to restore your power.

It's perfectly legal to provide an interlock system. Mechanical interlocks and functionally similar key interlocks are ubiquitous for similar applications- a lot of the major manufactures even offer them as optional equipment especially for thus purpose.

Philosophically, better to have a safe legal way of cheaply hooking up a generator than driving idiots to suicide plugs in the dryer outlet, ya know?

e: here's one Cutler Hammer sells: https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Eaton/Generators-MechanicalInterlockCovers.pdf

grover fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Aug 10, 2013

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 20:15

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 16:43

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Three-Phase posted:

Sure.

Eaton's Molded Case Breakers - No pictures unfortunately but you can order them in 2, 3, or 4 pole configuration.

I don't want to derail and these breakers are a little larger than what you might see in a typical house (especially the R-frame breaker with 2500A.)

I've never seen a residential-type 4-pole breaker; a typical residential panel doesn't even have 4 wires to break. The only application I can think of you'd need a breaker like that is where you have multiple generators in parallel with a configuration that doesn't permit a shared grounded neutral bus. Having an open neutral during transfer can create a lot of issues with modern transformerless UPS systems, though.

grover fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Aug 17, 2013

# ¿ Aug 17, 2013 10:50

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rurutia posted:

I have a bit of a weird rear end electrical issue. I have asked an electrician to come in and paid him $90 to open all the sockets and check the arc fault breaker itself then tell me he has no idea what's going on, so I'm hoping to get a bit of advice on either finding another electrician or some idea on what the problem is really.

We have an arc-fault breaker for the entirety of our bedroom/closet/master bathroom lights (GFCI in the bathroom is on a separate circuit). Scarily, our fire alarms are also on this breaker. The same thing has happened twice now where over a period of 4-5 days, more and more things will trip the circuit breaker. First, it is always the ceiling fan/light. Then any of the light switches in the room/bathroom (outlets still work fine with no effect). Then the circuit breaker just pops immediately after resetting it, even with nothing plugged into the outlets. After a few days, everything goes back to normal.

We're really at a loss and I'm hesitant about finding an electrician that will actually be able to accurately diagnose the situation. Part of me is wondering if I should try and pick up a hybrid breaker to eliminate the chance that it's just static electricity.

Sounds like a loose wire creating an intermittent neutral-ground fault. A good electrician should be able to find it pretty quickly. Some dude claiming to be an electrician but working for a tiny % of what an actual electrician would charge may not be able to. The easiest first step is to swap AFCI breakers with another AFCI circuit in the panel- if the new breaker trips, the problem is on the circuit. If the problem occurs to the other circuit, you need a new breaker.

Smoke alarms are supposed to be on a breaker that's attached to lights so you can tell when it trips. They're also required to have battery back-up, and battery-powered smoke alarms will run for years on those batteries, so it's not THAT big a deal from a safety standpoint. If you don't have battery-back-up smoke alarms, you've got the wrong kind and should replace them.

grover fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Aug 30, 2013

# ¿ Aug 30, 2013 14:27

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rurutia posted:

Uh, is $90/hr considered cheap? It's mid to high around here I thought. Do you have any suggestions on how to find a good electrician? This guy came recommended online, and my extensive searching for electrician reviews have come up pretty scarce for recommended ones.

Nah, $90/hr isn't a red flag- I thought you meant $90 total. You'll hit $90 just in travel getting them to your house.

AFCIs are sensitive to ground faults, and can trip on neutral-ground faults (which allow some neutral current to flow through the neutral) as well as actual arc faults. Excessive leakage current through failing bathroom fans and such can cause issues, too, but AFCIs are not generally as sensitive as GFCIs to this. As can wiring gently caress-ups like combining neutrals from different circuits.

You may have an arc fault in a wall. Like if a nail is driven through a cable and shorts it out some of the time. This seems to be very rare compared to electricians simply loving up and handling neutrals wrong, though.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2013 16:19

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Guy Axlerod posted:

What's the point of hard-wired smoke alarms if you still have to replace the battery every year? Or did I misunderstand, and it's a single, central battery?

One advantage is that if one alarms, they all alarm.

And no, you don't really have to replace the batteries every year, that's just an extremely conservative recommendation. They make infuriating and too-physically-painful-to-ignore beeps when they die. Which is usually like 5+ years later. At which point, I think you're supposed to actually replace the whole smoke alarm.

e: 10 year replacement schedule, apparently.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2013 22:49

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

kastein posted:

... I'll have to report back after I test out their interaction with the ATS and generator, however. I hear that often causes nuisance trips so I'm curious to see how it goes, seeing as I've been careful about my N/G bonding I don't think it will be a problem but I could be wrong.

I've never had any issues with my AFCIs nor problems on generator. lovely dirty power from cheap generators can potentially cause all sorts of issues, though.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2013 01:53

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

ncumbered_by_idgits posted:

Nuisance tripping from turning off high-current loads, particularly from removing the plug from the receptacle under load. Vacuums, circular saws, etc.

Nuisance tripping on lighting circuits that are controlled by certain dimmers, particularly Lutron brand.

Yeah, I've heard it all too; incessant bitching about entire batches of AFCIs being defective (yeah, sure) and poo poo like that. Personally, 95% of the problems are caused by the electricians loving up the wiring and refusing to admit it. AFCIs don't tolerate sloppy handling of the neutral.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2013 04:25

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Raised by Hamsters posted:

My limited understanding of wiring is curious - what even happens in that situation? Someone letting grounded metal brush up against neutral terminals? Shouldn't that be pretty easy to avoid?

Yes, those type of faults are pretty easy to avoid, but they do happen. More common is mishandling of the neutrals, like if a multi-gang light switch contain two circuits, it's a common mistake for the electrician to mix the neutrals together, when they're supposed to be kept separate. AFCIs keep them honest.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2013 15:37

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

ncumbered_by_idgits posted:

How so?

If you mix neutrals of different circuits, some of the neutral current returns on the wrong neutral, which is interpreted by the AFCI breaker as a ground fault, and it trips instantly if any load is placed on either circuit. But works fine if you swap in a normal breaker. So, electricians (especially the old school uneducated luddites and their proteges) love to blame AFCIs as incompatible with [whatever load was on that circuit], ignorant of the actual cause.

grover fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Aug 31, 2013

# ¿ Aug 31, 2013 16:14

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

ncumbered_by_idgits posted:

That'd be a GFCI.

Not exactly; AFCI breakers include GFI as well as arc detection, but it's usually set to a higher threshold than GFCI (30ma vs 5ma). It trips on the same type of N-G or N-N faults that would trip a GFCI, though.

grover fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 31, 2013

# ¿ Aug 31, 2013 18:05

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Guy Axlerod posted:

I guess what I don't understand is why someone would pay extra for a hard-wired system when they still have to replace the batteries?

I understand you get the whole-house alarm, but couldn't a wireless system do the same thing?

It's required by code and pretty cheap for new construction.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2013 14:17

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

kastein posted:

I thought CAFCI was combined series and parallel AFCI, not combined AFCI and GFCI, but I haven't been too clear on it.

Yeah, the "combination" part of CAFCI is related to the combinations of arcs it detects, not ground-fault. All AFCI breakers made since 2008 are required to be combination, so most people don't really bother using the term- we just call them AFCI.

Most AFCI breakers (new and old) have integrated ground fault detection as part of the fault detection circuitry, though do NOT qualify as GFCI because tolerance is set higher- 30ma vice 5ma for GFCI.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2013 01:48

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

stupid puma posted:

I've got a couple of questions. I don't know much about electrical so please bear with me.

I purchased a house recently that was built in 1957. Every outlet in the house is 3 prong and there is a newer breaker box installed. However, I've come to find that only the rooms that have been remodeled (Kitchen and basement) have actual grounded outlets. The other rooms (aside from the bathroom) don't have GFCI outlets. Is that something that our appraiser/inspector should have picked up on and alerted us to? It's against code, right?

Codes aren't retroactive, but it was never to code to install 3-prong grounded outlets without either grounding them, or protecting them via GFCI and clearly labeling them as GFCI-ungrounded. Sounds like your inspector missed it.

The easiest safe/legal way to retrofit is to install GFCIs. You don't need a GFCI per receptacle; one GFCI can protect the entire string. Find where the first one in the string is, and install a GFCI there.

grover fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Sep 3, 2013

# ¿ Sep 3, 2013 22:31

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

IRC R313 covers smoke alarms in houses. It requires smoke alarms to be powered from building power with battery back-up. It's silent on whether it needs a dedicated circuit or can share, which means either way is fine, but they all have to be interconnected so that if one goes off, they all go off.

One advantage of sharing a lighting circuit is that you'd know if the breaker tripped and be able to address it. Since you have battery backup, losing power for short periods of time isn't all that big a deal.

grover fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Sep 4, 2013

# ¿ Sep 4, 2013 15:55

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

ToxicFrog posted:

Is it just me, or does that look kind of charred? If so, what do I do? Can I safely strip off the charred section and connect it to the other half of the breaker, or will I have to replace the entire breaker? Also, is this a sign that it just wasn't connected to the breaker properly, or that the wire is not rated for the amount of current through it, and I'll need to either rewire that entire circuit (please god no) or replace the breaker with one with a lower current limit? And if I'm completely wrong and it's meant to look like that, can I safely assume it was a transient increase in power draw from the dehumidifier that tripped it and hook everything back up again?

Yes, that cable and breaker are both damaged. Replace the breaker for sure (they're cheap) and cut the wire back past where the insulation is visibly damaged before reconnecting. If it's #14 or larger, it's properly sized. I suspect the breaker lug was not properly tightened, as loose connectors can cause arcing (which was likely the crackling you heard) which cause heating and damage. Tightening lugs like this is actually supposed to be done on a regular basis as they can loosen up through time; pros will use thermal cameras to check for tightness as loose lugs show up as hot spots. In this case it probably just wasn't tightened right when it was installed.

Turn power off to the whole panel and give that wire a tug- if it comes out, that was for sure your problem. I would torque down every other bolt in the panel at the same time.

A loose neutral or ground is likely the cause of the 40V readings- readings like that are often phantom voltages due to poor connections. Probably the ground in this cases as you'd likely have experienced issues if the neutral was loose. Check all the ground connections in all the boxes in that circuit if you can.

grover fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Sep 14, 2013

# ¿ Sep 14, 2013 20:21

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Bobulus posted:

Googled around and am getting different answers in different places. Grounding issue:

- Old, rental, house
- 3 prong outlets have been used to replace most of the original 2-prong outlets, but a cheap outlet tester says that every outlet in the house (other than the remodeled kitchen) is lacking a ground.
- Opened up an outlet in one of the bedrooms, and there is indeed a green ground wire, but it's not hooked to the outlet.
- I was hoping this was going to be an easy fix, but when I get out my multimeter, I'm getting weird AC voltages:

Hot to neutral: 126V
Hot to ground: 65V
Neutral to ground: 50V
Hot to metal outlet box: 25V

So... what gives? Is that green grounding wire hooked to nothing? Would hooking it up be better or worse than leaving it disconnected? I can buy some GFCI outlets, like the OP mentioned, but I'm really more curious about what these readings mean.

(Some of the forums I looked at seemed to indicate that you'd get funny readings with a cheapo multimeter if the system was not under load, so I checked. Same readings both with and without a lamp plugged in and turned on)

edit: The house has an office-style tiled ceiling, so I imagine they ran wires to these outlets that way. May see if I can borrow a ladder and peek my head up there, see if there's any indication how all this is run together.

Yeah, that green wire should be connected! I suspect the ground is broken or disconnected elsewhere, too- the phantom voltage is due to the ground wire not being connected to anything, with random voltages being induced by line induction. When the electricians say to put a load on, they mean to use an old style analog voltmeter with the moving needle, since any stray phantom voltage will be cleared by the coil. Digital voltmeters (the good and the cheap) have a much higher impedance and don't really clear it. You could also try a continuity check between the neutral and ground.

I'd take this to your landlord though and get him to bring an electrician in to take a look at it. It's a serious safety issue no matter which way it ends up.

grover fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Sep 14, 2013

# ¿ Sep 14, 2013 20:30

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Bobulus posted:

You check this with the breaker off, right? I just tried that and could get no continuity between the two.

On or off shouldn't matter; if you have no continuity, there is no ground.

This is not a "you broke your dishwasher" kind of thing; this is a pre-existing building code violation the landlord should be responsible for fixing. It's the type of thing that can leave the unit uninhabitable until repaired.

Possible caveat: are these outlets GFCI protected? That's the only way they would be legal if ungrounded. If this is the case, the first breaker in each string should be a GFCI, and pushing the test button on it should kill everything downstream. If this is the case, they're supposed to be clearly labeled both GFCI PROTECTED and UNGROUNDED. If someone simply replaced the old 2-prong with 3-pring to avoid using adapters without doing anything else, it's illegal as gently caress. The hazard is that if an appliance shorts out, case will remain energized but it won't trip the breaker, and can lead to shocks and possibly electrocution.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2013 21:39

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Bobulus posted:

The only gfci outlets (IE, those with test buttons) I can find are in the kitchen, which is on a different circuit than the bedrooms I'm testing this in. I was assuming that the 3-prong ungrounded stuff was just grandfathered in at some point, it being a very old house, (especially since the remodeled room appears to have been done correctly), but if it is indeed impossible for them have done this legally, it gives me a lot more ammunition to get them to fix it.

This is going to be a huge hassle, though, I can just tell.

2nding Motronic- that poo poo was never legal and is in no way grandfathered. Better to go through the hassle than get electrocuted. Someone did some criminally negligent work by the sounds of it.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2013 22:17

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Slugworth posted:

Linked for size.

Those are 500kVA transformers, 1 per phase. Believe they're stepping high voltage down to medium voltage to distribute through your neighborhood.

_{Protip: add an "l" before the ".jpg" to get a smaller version of a giant imgur image.}

grover fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Sep 19, 2013

# ¿ Sep 19, 2013 23:27

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Yep, sorry. On the bright side, your neighborhood is now far less likely to suffer blackouts when all your neighbors get EV cars.

kastein posted:

I've never seen a generator installed on a pole in a residential neighborhood before, nevermind 3 seperate ones for each hot leg.

You chose some odd qualifications on this... have you ever seen any generator on any pole, in any setting?

grover fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 20, 2013

# ¿ Sep 19, 2013 23:34

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

This is from IRC2003 (condensed from NEC), but I don't think it's changed since then:

# ¿ Oct 7, 2013 23:32

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Thermal protection switch. It'll cut the power if the can gets too hot.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 01:44

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Skier posted:

What is the recommended NEC 2011 code book? http://www.amazon.com/National-Elec...c+2011+handbook ?

Dang, when inspecting the garage light switch with the power off I determined the circuit is feeding the guest room outlets and lights, laundry room lights, one plug in my office, the driveway motion sensor lights and the light next to the garage man door.

Looks like I get a new circuit for my lights!

The handbook is the code book with extra notes and explanations from NFPA; I prefer it to the straight code book. I would NOT buy right now; the 2014 code is going to be released in a matter of days. At that point, you should be able to pick up a 2011 book really cheap used if you don't absolutely need the latest/greatest (it changes from edition to edition but not usually all that much for any given task; just make sure you read up on the articles talking about changes to make sure none of them apply to what you're doing).

If you're just a normal homeowner and not an electrician, I'd actually recommend getting International Residential Code (IRC) instead of NEC. It includes all the applicable portions of NEC as well as all the rest of the building codes that apply to 1-2 family homes. It lags behind NEC by a cycle (IRC 2012 includes NEC 2011), so you'll still want to be aware of differences.

grover fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 5, 2013

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 13:41

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Guy Axlerod posted:

In my mind, a real volt meter will have two important features:

It will measure volts and give you that reading, rather than the yes/no message your current device gives

It has two probes, for + and -. You will be able to touch the probes to the specific wires you are testing.

I haven't shopped for a meter in a while, so I don't know what's out there to give a specific recommendation.

Yeah, this. It doesn't need to be fancy or expensive. For what you need it for, a $10 multimeter would do just fine.

kastein posted:

Agreed, I only use mine to check if the box is live still, and even then I double check with a voltmeter and/or table lamp after.

I have seen one of those testers signal that a 40 foot run of wire, disconnected at both ends, was energied.

It registered voltage because there actually was voltage on that disconnected wire, induced from the wires it was run alongside. Phantom voltages are common in broken neutrals and switch-traveler circuits; if you use an older analog meter, the stray voltage will ground out through the meter coil and should read 0V to whatever else you reference.

grover fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 10, 2013

# ¿ Nov 10, 2013 17:46

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Entangled posted:

I don't know if this is the best place for it, but as this thread has a good makeup of practicing electricians and DIY homeowners, I think it would appeal to both groups.

There's a local company that's bought a lot of advertising on FM radio, with one single ad running frequently and making claims that seem a bit far-fetched. They're selling a product line (and only one product line) that is purported to reduce electric bills by up to 20%, and making a statement along the lines of using more energy to turn appliances off and back on than simply leaving them on. The proposed solution is the application of a properly-sized power factor correction device that stabilizes your incoming voltage and conditions your line load by some feat of magic or revolutionary electrical engineering.

Okay, I can see a potential benefit for commercial applications with demand meter rate adjustments, but aren't nearly all residential customers on a watt-hour meter? Why would this be marketed to homeowners? Sounds an awful lot like the EdenPure heaters that can mysteriously create heat more efficiently than other resistive electric heaters, but for your whole house! Out of sheer curiosity, I checked out their website (http://www.powerfactorsolutionsllc.com), and was rewarded with page after page of awful graphs and charts, vague and misleading statements, and pictures of a box with some LEDs, capacitors, and surge arrestors. Pretty amazing that the residential case study showed a decrease in average monthly electric bills, from $800 to $350, by tapping some capacitors to a breaker in the panel, for only $2,500 (and up) installed!

Google results for Black Hawk Power House shows pages upon pages of sites similar to the one above, all from the same generic template, and using the same sales pitch and hokey graphs, as well as one forum debate between electricians and the distribution investors at http://www.electriciantalk.com/f30/blackhawk-powerhouse-55103/

Now, the guys over at electriciantalk aren't always the most eloquently spoken, but the opinion seems pretty unanimous that this is nothing more than a scam which is currently being actively and heavily marketed by people who are pushing sales literature as scientific fact. I've seen quite a few instances where homeowners have been sold on load-shedding demand control installations from many years past, which are often bypassed and not in use, but this approach is new to me. Are you guys seeing these in the wild - either installed, or sales solicitation?

Complete and utter bullshit. To the point where it's sad that anyone believes any of that horse poo poo. Now, it is true that big industrial sites sometimes use big banks of power factor correction capacitors to counteract the inductance of massive motors and miles and miles of transmission lines... but you don't have any of that in a house. Virtually 100% of loads are purely resistive or non-linear, which power factor correction capacitors do gently caress-all to help. Which wouldn't matter in a home anyhow because you aren't billed by peak current, you're billed by the watt-hour. It would actually cause residential power bills to go UP due to incidental resistance and losses.

Yeah, that site is a scam.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2013 05:43

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Motronic posted:

It's not safe or legal to do it for house wiring.....as in wall cable. That should be wire nutted or similar and in a box. As far as dealing with what's little more than an extension cord......there is no "code" to fall back on. The only people who would have any say about that is your insurance company.

But if you soldered it properly and then taped or otherwise insulated it properly I really wouldn't worry about it.

Most local codes require all appliances, cords, etc., to be UL listed for the purpose used. Soldering a socket would presumably violate that UL listing.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2013 21:58

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

FCKGW posted:

I have an upright freezer in my garage on a GFCI plug that seems to be tripping lately. When it trips it turns off all my outdoor outlets including the christmas lights.
I've read that having appliances on a GFCI plug is unwise, can I just put a standard plug here instead? Nothing else connects to it besides this freezer.
If not, how can I track down why this thing keeps tripping?

It's tripping because there is either an intermittent short circuit, or a leakage to ground that's greater than 5ma. Normally, all outlets in a garage are required to be on GFCI. Code permits dedicated appliance outlets to be non-GFCI, though, so if you wanted to pull a new circuit for your freezer, you could do that (mono receptacle required; can't be duplex). It's more likely your christmas lights getting wet that's the problem.

That said, garages are actually a terrible place for a freezer, though; they're not designed to work with the wild temperature swings.

some texas redneck posted:

What's an acceptable voltage drop on a fully loaded circuit?

This room is on a 15 amp breaker, I assume wired with 14 gauge romex. High end PC + 2 monitors + AV receiver currently powered on, so probably 3-4 amps. Just switched on a 1200 watt space heater, and my UPS switched to battery for a bit (no, it's not plugged into the UPS).

UPS monitoring software shows 122 volts with the heater off, 114 with the heater on (dropping to about 100 for a moment when the heater is first switched on). Obviously, I'm a little concerned about an 8 volt drop _{but my feet are a lot warmer.}

5% drop is recommended, but 114V is perfectly fine. A momentary drop to 100V from in-rush is perfectly normal, though not exactly ideal.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 11:57

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Loose lugs are some of the worst causes of weird poo poo happening. And so easy to prevent just by doing a final re-torquing of everything in the panel before energizing it like should be done anyhow.

grover fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Dec 22, 2013

# ¿ Dec 21, 2013 18:58

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Is it a CFL? Sounds like it's simply dying. If the replacement works fine, that's a good indication the first bulb is destined for the garbage can.

WeaselWeaz posted:

Question about LED dimmers and old wiring. I'm looking to use LED bulbs in my basement and the lights are connected to a 2-wire switch. I want to put in a LED-compatible dimmer instead. Some reviews I've seen reference a ground connection being required, and I don't see the site and I'm pretty sure the box isn't grounded. I haven't bought a dimmer yet, but is this going to be a problem?

Do you mean it's a 3-way/4-way switch, or that there's no neutral?

grover fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Dec 22, 2013

# ¿ Dec 22, 2013 15:02

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Motronic posted:

Like the outlet the fireplace is plugged into?

Yes, that's exactly what's happening here.

The two most likely explanations are a poor connection somewhere in that receptacle which is causing resistive heating, or a harmless coincidence based on radiative heating. Have you pulled the receptacle to inspect it for evidence of arcing or heating, like charring on wires or melted insulators? You might also try setting something in front of the receptacle while the heater is running, which should block radiant heat. Just don't block airflow; if the problem is within the receptacle, you don't want to trap that heat in it.

grover fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 23, 2013

# ¿ Dec 23, 2013 17:00

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Looks like both switches are wired up with switch loops. The big question is where they're going to. If you can find the other boxes in the circuit and how they're wired up, we may be able to make more sense of why it's not working right.

grover fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Dec 27, 2013

# ¿ Dec 27, 2013 00:18

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Miyamotos RGB NES posted:

I am not sure where the outlet is wired to (the one with the white and red wire coming out of it, and a black wire going nowhere) but I am 90% sure the switch controls the floodlights. Even though it is motion sensored, I am guessing this is so you can have them as "always on" if you have a backyard gathering at night and don't want to wave your hands around like an idiot every 30 seconds so your friends can have light.

I am thinking the two black wires that aren't connected to anything were at one time connected via a wirenut? That's my guess.

If someone could tell me where I should wire what, I'll get right on it. I promise to kill the power before doing so.

Every motion sensor light I've seen has had a "secret handshake" of sorts where if you flip the light on/off/on in quick succession (or similar), it'll bypass the sensor and go on and stay on. Thunderstorms can sometimes trip them up and the light stays on.

Might be worth your while to open up the box the light is in and see how it's wired up. As well as any other outlets you think may be controlling lights in your garage.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2013 00:45

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

A flying piece of posted:

I picked up three heated rabbit water bottles. They say 'Don't use with an extension cord', like every electrical thing used for heating seems to. Unless I'm missing something, the worry is that extension cords will heat up, melt, and cause a fire due to the amps being drawn. Each of these bottles pulls 120 volts and 20 watts, which is less than .2 amps if I'm reading this correctly. Is it ridiculous to worry about plugging each of these into one three outlet, 14 gauge outdoor cord or am I going to burn my house down?

Most extension cords people have lying around the house are light-duty and only rated for low current loads; plugging an 1800W heater into one could very easily start a fire. Running a couple 20 watt heaters, however, should be fine.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2014 20:13

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Cosmik Debris posted:

The home's breaker for that circuit would have probably tripped (hopefully) before anything serious happened.

The real issue is that if they didn't kill the main breaker, (sounds like they're not the type) then they were backfeeding the grid, and some poor lineman could be hurt or killed through no fault of his own. And if they had managed to bring the grid back up while the generator was running it would have attempted to synchronise the generator to the frequency of the grid. And when the grid synchs to your motor without a synchroniser, it generally just destroys your generator.

Most household extension cords aren't rated that high, though; the ubiquitous orange cord is only rated for 13A. And if that 15A receptacle was on a 20A breaker, it wouldn't trip before that cord burst into flames.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2014 00:13

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

tater_salad posted:

Since power had been out for a week or so in the area. (Wet heavy snow in october with leaves still on trees caused widespread outages usually with multiple lines down in a neighborhood.) The power company went door to door telling people that they were working on restoring power and that they should not try and kill the nice linemen who were restoring power.

Sadly a high number of people don't know what they are doing when it comes to running a generator. There were a lot of carbon monoxide cases after that storm because folks were dumb. You can't protect against stupid, because stupid always wins.

That's every storm. Most people killed in the US from most hurricanes actually die from CO poisoning from their generator. Which is a super loving shame because that's so easily preventable by keeping it outside and using a CO alarm. (It's only in the biggest storms that flooding kills more.)

Can you tell when Katrina hit, solely by looking at this graph? :v:

Buy a loving CO detector and chain your generator up outside, it's not difficult and could save your life!

grover fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jan 26, 2014

# ¿ Jan 26, 2014 14:58

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

me your dad posted:

We have a bare-bulb ceiling light with a pull-cord. When we turn on the light, it flickers and sometimes turns off. Lightly tugging at the pull-cord (not enough to engage the mechanism) fixes it after a few jiggles. I have checked the bulb and it is seated tightly in the fixture.

Any idea what I might look at to fix this? This is a rental house so I don't want to invest in a new fixture if possible, and I don't necessarily want to take time off from work to have someone come look at it. I will do the latter if the fix is expensive though.

The bulb may not be screwed in right, try taking it out and putting it back in, and/or try a different bulb. If that doesn't fix it, call your landlord: one of the wires may be loose, or it may be a faulty switch. Neither is good for his/her liability.

What room is this in? An exposed pull-cord fixture is only legal in a veeeery narrow niche of applications, and illegal in virtually every application I see it used in. Landlord's electrician might need to fix it right while he's there, and put in an enclosed light and switch to operate it.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2014 15:24

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Crotch Fruit posted:

With all the lights on, flipping any switch will make them flicker. I have only 6 months left on my lease (maybe less if the rear end in a top hat below me keeps making noise complains and leaving threatening letters while I am at work. . .) and I told the manager on duty about this, she looked extremely un-interested but promised to send maintenance by someday. At least I have renters insurance for when this place catches on fire. The funny thing is I don't know how old this place, but it is one probably the newest apartment I have lived in yet. Bonus: Last night I discovered whenever I flip the dead bolt on the front door all of the lights dim.

90% chance it's a loose wire. Very important that it gets found before it starts a fire. Probably near your deadbolt.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2014 17:30

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

you ate my cat posted:

I feel like this is kind of a dumb question, but - how do I measure current with a clamp meter on a 220 line? I get it on 110, you clamp around the hot and there you go. On 220, though, I have 2 hots and a ground. I'm just getting a 0 when I try to measure it. Do I have to measure the hots separately?

Other possibility is that the meter's junked - I got this one at a yard sale and this is the first time I've tried to measure current with it.

Yeah, if you're just trying to get an idea of what your current draw is, just read each line individually. If you have access to a 3-phase power quality analyzer, they usually have a 1-phase 2-wire mode, but that's overkill for residential stuff.

If it's reading 0Amps on both lines, that either means there's too little current for it to measure, you're not using it right, or it's broken. Most likely broken- open it up and see if there's a blown replaceable fuse.

grover fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 16, 2014

# ¿ Feb 16, 2014 04:10

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 16:43

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

SolidElectronics posted:

Just measure one of the hots, same as you'd do on a 120V circuit. Assuming there's no neutral line and no ground fault, the same amount of current is flowing through both wires. If you put the clamp around both they'll cancel each other out which would explain your zero reading.

That's only true if it's a 2W circuit. If there's a neutral, the two hots could potentially read different, with the balance on the neutral. Good point about not trying to measure them both together though! Definitely want to clamp just 1 wire at a time

# ¿ Feb 16, 2014 04:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

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