|
Just moved into a house and I want to replace a receptacle. I currently have this:  The top controls the light in the fan (bathroom), the bottom controls the fan. I want to use this:  Where the switch will turn the fan AND light on, and then I can have a separate outlet to plug my toothbrush into. I see NO white wires on any of the existing screws. I see black and red wires, and then uncovered copper wires (ground I assume). I do see some white wires in the receptacle box, but they’re all spliced into different wire caps. Is what I’m trying to do possible? I watched some YouTube videos and no matter what I tried, the only way ahead to get what I want would be to connect the red (light) and the black1 (fan) via a wire cap, then have another wire going out to my terminal…but I dunno enough about electricity to know if that’s a bad idea or not. I did run a multimeter and identified that one of the black wires is the live one, but with the other two being spoken for (fan and light), I dunno what would go to neutral.
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2022 00:40
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 05:44 |
|
|
Motronic posted:No, not without rewiring that box. drat. That seems like something beyond my comfort level. I was asking the electrician about it when he was over fixing the wire I drilled through on my tv mount and he was like “oh that’s easy-just make sure you connect the white/neutral wire.” So I figured I’d give it a shot until I realized the white wire isn’t in play in that box.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2022 01:06
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Yeah, your electrician pretty reasonably assumed that switch box was wired up to code from at least 15 years ago and it's not. There's not a lot you can do without some drywall patching even if you are a top notch electrician, so put that in your "how much is this worth to me right now" vs. "how long until we gut this bathroom to redo it" calculator. Thanks! Putting this on the back burner. We’ve got another outlet receptacle on the other side of the sink my wife is using so I’ll just throw a three outlet adapter on that and call it good.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2022 01:17
|
|
|
I’ll have to take a picture tomorrow but there’s 3 parts in the junction box: 1 main light switch for vanity 1 switch for fan 1 switch for light in the fan In the box I mainly see red, black, and bare copper wires hooked up to the three switches, but coming INTO the box, I see 4 sets of stuff, some of which contain white wires.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2022 01:38
|
|
|
It looks like a rats nest in there…  
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2022 15:46
|
|
|
Here’s an overhead shot. The black wire with the electrical tape on the double switch is the live wire. I didn’t test the single switch with my multimeter yet 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
Guy Axlerod posted:This is a bathroom, shouldn't you have a GFCI? If it's not close to a sink, or you have a GFCI breaker it may not be required. It is close to a sink but my breaker panel has GFCi’s. It’s weird but my inspector said it was kosher. My assumption is that they are all in parallel so when I trip one, it trips them all and I need to go to the breaker to reset it.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2022 00:35
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Oh, nice. So red and black together from the left side of the existing double switch onto one terminal of your new switch. You'll need to make a jumper to pigtail out of that bundle of neutrals and use the hot on the other side of the switch. So I can put the red and black wire on the same terminal? Would there be enough room for both of them on one post? Seems like maybe not… Also can you provide a link/more info on “making a jumper to pigtail out of that bundle of neutrals”? Couldn’t I just take one of those white wires out of the wire cap and connect that to the neutral terminal?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2022 02:42
|
|
|
Motronic posted:This is getting super specific for advice for something like this on a comedy forum. Or any forum. I gotcha. I was going by the obviously outdated OP from 2009 where a licensed electrician said he would help assist with questions. Yea, it’s a comedy forum, but we have subforums for a reason and I rely on the subforums for a lot of great information because the info you and others provide is 99% better than I receive on DIY forums filled with bubbas trying to jury rig something. Maybe I misread your post on the “red and black into one terminal”, which is why I was trying to confirm the information. It would make much more sense to do a pigtail red and black to the terminal rather than putting both wires on one terminal. Same thing for taking a white wire out of the wire cap bundle. I’m assuming there’s got to be code written saying how many wires a wire cap can include, but I’ll hire a professional for this one. One question: I’m used to referencing the code of federal regulations for ship inspections in my job, where things are broken up by applicability based on year of build, passenger capacity, hull material, etc. is the UL code kind of the one-stop shop for something similar or are there other references electricians use to determine what’s up to code?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2022 13:29
|
|
|
Installing ceiling fans where lights were previously installed. Is there any way to verify if the current electrical box is rated for ceiling fans/correct weight? Only thing I can think of is jumping in the attic and seeing how it’s setup from above. House is from 1988. Edit: the neutral wires looked like the fell victim to the popcorn ceiling spray and are capped in the yellow wire cap on the right. 
nwin fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 8, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2022 19:12
|
|
|
FISHMANPET posted:You might be able to tell by looking up and seeing if you see the box attached to some kind of bar on top (the two holes faintly visible in the second picture sort of give me a vibe that it's connected to a bar) but if you've got attic access, the surest way is to go up and see that it's got a metal support bar anchoring it between two joists, rather than just being side nailed into a single joist. Thanks-I installed some fans that required the support bars installed but it was a decade ago so it’s slowly coming back to me.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2022 19:34
|
|
|
Here’s what I found: Room 1 (pictured above) : no access. There’s plywood which has been nailed down and it’s blocking access to the wiring. Any ideas or do I need to rip up the plywood? Room 2: seems good and ready for a fan https://imgur.com/a/hTyR1Vm Awful app won’t let me upload the above pic for some reason, hence the link. Room 3: no good. Need to get something to support the fan. I’m worried about the box being right next to the joist because a bar like room 2 won’t work I don’t think. Any ideas? Unless there’s a box that would work, I almost think I need to cut a new hole in an adjacent joist? I’m also curious why it has two sets of cables instead of 1 like room 2.  Second though on room 3…this thing installs right on the joist as well. Maybe just replace mine with this to be safe? Southwire MSBFAN Fan Support 50/ lb, Maximum with Depth Adjustable, gray https://a.co/d/3oSnmca nwin fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 8, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2022 20:46
|
|
|
Rufio posted:None of those boxes are rated for fans and they should all be replaced. The one with the bars going across the studs isn’t ok? It looks similar to the setup I did years back on a fan install.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2022 03:53
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Speaking as the resident former code official and fire investigator: yes. Huh…how’d you get into that? And what do you do now? I used to inspect domestic/foreign ships and barges with the coast guard, but that’s a little different.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2022 02:14
|
|
|
Yeah, as long as I can get them up there without having to go through the attic, that will be great. I got something similar from Home Depot and will try it out once the kids give me any time to do something longer than 5 minutes. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-15-3-cu-in-Remodel-Construction-Ceiling-Fan-Brace-with-1-1-2-in-Box-CMB150-OB/205383178
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
Thanks for everyone’s advice on the fan bracket. There was only a 1/2” Brad nail holding up each side of that metal bracket. I had another fun time with the fan though. Got everything installed correctly-light turns on but no fan. I checked the wires and they were hot after I restored power so I’m guessing the plastic piece that connects to the metal pull had broken. Then when I was putting up an identical fan I realized someone had cut the wires shorter on the broken one and then returned it. Second fan works without issue, but man what a pain to find that out after installing those drat blades.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2022 16:15
|
|
|
Someone explain this wiring to me. I’m installing a ceiling fan in a room with one light switch and it currently has a standard ceiling light installed (white/black/ground wires). When I took the light down, I have two sets of romex coming into the junction box. One is black sheathed with red, black, white, and ground wires. The other is white sheathed with white, black, and ground wires. The black wires are pigtailed together and wire tied off. The red wire is wire tied to the black on the light, the whites are pigtailed to the white on the light, and the ground are pigtailed together to the neutral on the light.  When I took the light switch out, it’s the same setup. Black and white sheathed cables pigtailed together and only the black, white, and ground cable tied to the switch.   What’s the purpose of the black sheathed cable here? Upgrade option for a fan at a later time so you can have two switches? nwin fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jul 12, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Jul 12, 2022 16:58
|
|
|
H110Hawk posted:If you're lucky, yes. Where is your always-hot black wire? This is the "line" wire? If it's in the switch box with all the other wires unhooked from each other you're golden. Thanks. I don’t mind having one switch. I’m Just trying to understand why they would have done this…what option would it provide anyone?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 12, 2022 17:31
|
|
) Nut together all the white wires, then a second nut for all the ground wires, pigtailing the grounds onto the ground terminal on the switch and the ground wire on the fan.
|
Rufio posted:They ran a switch loop and also took a neutral wire to the switch. This would allow someone to run a receptacle off of the switch where a switch loop with just 2 conductors would not allow it. It's not the most typical setup but has some utility. Thanks. I don’t understand their reasoning…looking again at the light fixture in my Master bed, it actually has 3 sets of wires coming in…reading up on it, it’s one 14-2 and two 14-3’s. I just don’t get what utility this could ever offer.  Another weird thing (to me) is that the ground wires are literally just twisted together and left up in the box. The ground wire from the ceiling light was never attached to the metal bracket. Is this any concern at all?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 13, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
Extant Artiodactyl posted:the magic of electrical is that a bad installation can take 0-100 years to fail. you're not ever going to clear this until you get a professional to inspect it (on-site!) or reinstall it. Ok-so question on the loose connections. Our house did have one fan installed when we moved in…it’s a Hampton bay with a remote and we hate it. It flickers randomly, sometimes it will turn on and off depending which fan speed it’s on, etc…drives us insane when we’re eating since it’s over our dinner table. I secured the power and lowered it, checking all the connections and even re-did the wire nuts. Everything looked fine. Only problems I can think of: It’s hooked up to a light switch with a dimmer on it. It looks very similar to this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lutron-Tog...cB&gclsrc=aw.ds I don’t think that would be great to have the fan connected to. I’d figure you want a normal switch that just goes on and off. When I operate the dimmer, it definitely affects the lights brightness and the fan speed. Or-it’s just a bad fan. I have no idea how old it is. What else could I be missing?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2022 18:52
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Hampton Bay is garbage-tier fan construction. The electronics inside the remote receiver are garbage. If you can wire it up so that the "remote" is bypassed and it's just power directly into the lights and fan and then control the thing with switches on the wall, that's best. You'd have to look at the exact model of dimmer to make sure it's compatible with fan motors and LEDs. In general, you're correct, you don't want to be messing with putting a dimmer ahead of a fan that's got a remote. So I could definitely forgo the receiver, but there no pull switch for the fan and lights so I’m not sure how that would affect things. I’m chocking this up to a lovely fan that’s poo poo the bed and I don’t mind buying a new one. Would you recommend I replace the wall switch also?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2022 18:57
|
|
|
Dammit, I wish I could just swap these two switches. The one on the left is for the kitchen lights, the one on the right is for the fan and has the dimmer. I’d love to be able to dim my kitchen lights.   
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2022 19:31
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Why can't you just swap the two switches? Simple answer? It makes no sense to me why two sets of romex are coming to the switch on the right. I also can’t find my black and decker wiring book since the move.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
Mimesweeper posted:most likely that the switch on the left has power coming in and the switch leg going back out in the same romex, while switch on the right has power coming in on one and the fan/light switch legs go out the other. if thats the case thats really convenient for you, if you want to control the fan and light separately There’s a black sheathed 14-3 for the left switch on the left. In the middle is a white sheathed 14-2 going to the right switch. On the right there’s a black sheathed 14-3 going to the right switch. Also-there is another switch (non dimmable) in the living room which also controls the fan. nwin fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jul 24, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2022 20:37
|
|
|
Mimesweeper posted:oh huh, okay. the extra switch changes things. Oh no I have a tester. Here’s some pictures and a horrible wiring schematic (the orange is the white wire):  Dimmer switch (both black and red on the right side are live):  Light switch (the white wire and red wire are live if the other switch in the hallway is on (which also controls the same light). If I turn it off, just the white wire is live). 
nwin fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jul 25, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2022 15:10
|
|
|
Motronic posted:When you have a live white wire, especially in a house built in/wired/rewired around the 50s/60s, the very first thing you should be thinking is "this is probably a switch loop". I’m confused so I’m probably just going to call an electrician. Looking online the black bolt on the switch should be “common” and the live wire. However, on the light switch on the left, the two live wires are orange and white which are attached to the brass bolts. It makes no sense to me but probably has something to do with what you mentioned above.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2022 15:52
|
|
|
Mimesweeper posted:oh, there's two switches that control the light on the left toggle switch? All good. I’d be home free if these were all single pole switches but I tried drawing out what I’d do and it’s too confusing to take a chance on. Figure I’ll have him replace another outlet upstairs while I’m at it (which I also brought up previously).
|
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2022 16:29
|
|
|
Well the electrician came out, installed a 3-way switch and that fixed my fan problem. Of course I found my black and decker wiring book the next day and read all about travelers which would have helped me make more sense of it all. But I got some outlets installed in the basement while they were here and an upgraded outlet by my coffee bar and bathroom so it was worth it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2022 00:45
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Yes, they all are. Garbage disposals, ice makers, under cabinet fridges - all of that stuff used to be hard wire. So piggybacking off this… I got a dishwasher installed a few months back and there was no outlet under the sink. The installer hired by Costco offered to install an outlet for $100 so I did it. He said they were not allowed to hardwire dishwashers anymore like the previous one had been. It’s not GFCI. Should it be?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2022 01:46
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Where are you getting this from? It's an equipment outlet. It doesn't neem to be GFCI. So what’s the purpose of GFCI being required in bathrooms and kitchens then? I just figured it was because “water bad!”
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2022 02:00
|
|
|
Motronic posted:It's because it's an outlet that ANYTHING could get plugged into (as it's accessible). A MACHINE OUTLET which is dedicated for, in this case, a dishwasher, is for a device that is made to work not only around but full of water quite safely. Gotcha-thanks. Gotta be pedantic here for a sec…it has two outlets. Is a GFCI not required in this case because of some “reasonable person” test saying one wouldn’t be expected to hook a hair dryer up to the extra outlet since it’s not readily accessible and obscured by a cabinet?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2022 02:07
|
|
|
Trying to troubleshoot my garage. I’ve got 2 garage door openers and some GFCI outlets in my garage. A few weeks ago, the garage was open and it was pouring rain outside. I tried to close the garage doors and they didn’t work. I went down to my breaker panel and there’s nothing listed for “garage”. Also-none of the breakers were tripped. I went back to the garage, saw the GFCI outlet (the garage door openers are not plugged into this outlet), pressed reset and bam-everything turned on in the garage and worked fine. Today, wife came in and said the garage door wouldn’t close and it’s not raining at all. We pressed the GFCI in the garage again and it worked fine. So-what should I do to start troubleshooting why this is happening? My layout is from the garage you enter the laundry room, and then the kitchen is right next to the laundry room. However, I’m pretty sure that when the GFCI trips in the garage, the laundry room and kitchen aren’t affected at all (no lights turn off I think…I’d need to verify).
|
|
#
¿
Sep 10, 2022 02:45
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:If it rains a lot or you have high humidity, there could still be water in or around the box that's making it trip. Otherwise it could be faulty equipment, faulty plugs, a loose connection touching where it shouldn't. It could even just be the receptacle itself, especially if it's older. Definitely doesn’t rain a lot, humidity was low today when it tripped. House built in 1988 but I’m not sure when the outlets were added. The lights in here are funky though. The ceiling fan light in the kitchen will randomly just shut off for 1/2 a second at times. I had an issue earlier because the fan was on a dimmer switch and that was causing issues so I had an electrician replace the dimmer switch with a standard 3-way switch (travelers were black magic to me and I didn’t feel confident doing it myself at the time). However the light still randomly turns off for 1/2 a second. When the electrician was out I had them add an outlet for my coffee bar because whenever my electric kettle was on, the lights would flicker. I suggested having a 20-amp circuit put in to replace the 15-amp and the electrician recommended just adding an outlet. The lights no longer flicker when the kettle is on at least. nwin fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Sep 10, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Sep 10, 2022 03:30
|
|
|
Speaking of getting shocked, any ideas what the potential cause of this would have been? I lived in a rental house years ago in Houston which had been built in the fifties. When I would shower, randomly whenever I’d touch the mixing valve, I’d feel a small shock. It wasn’t much, but just enough of a constant tingle to know things weren’t right. Any clues? Is it just a house without a proper ground maybe?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2022 18:27
|
|
|
Motronic posted:This pretty much needs to be a rule in all DIY threads. Whenever someone is being cagy about exactly what it is they're doing it turns out they're doing something monumentally stupid and/or going about it the entirely wrong way. Like the one who didn't know how to use a tape measure and ended up buying measuring standards to prove themselves wrong. Wait, there’s more than one way to use a tape measure?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
Visiting my moms house. She’s got her tree up and it’s on a tree stand which existed before my time with an outlet in the box and an electrical cord running out of the box. Noticed this. Looks like it was a 2 prong cord with a ground wire added to it? Is this safe at all? I mean it’s worked for the last 40+ years. 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 19, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Not sure what kind of answer you're looking for here with that level of information. If the insulation on the ENTIRE cord/string is good then it's probably still safe. That ground wire was not added, that's a thing from when most outlets were 2 prong so one could ground it. Most holidays light are not grounded at all. Yeah the wire/insulation itself is fine and everything looks in good condition/I’ve just never seen a ground wire hanging out like that. She’s using led lights, surprisingly.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 19, 2022 17:11
|
|
|
SpartanIvy posted:I hope to god it's a base for an artificial tree, but it looks old enough that I'm afraid. Here’s the base. Basically you can plug in all your lights to the outlet on the bottom and then the black wire from the wooden box goes to that 2-prong cord I posted earlier. Of course the black wire isn’t long enough to get to a wall outlet, so my mom used the green extension cord to connect the black wire to the extension cord to the wall.  I think my mom said her dad had made it. She’s 78, so…it’s old.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 19, 2022 21:28
|
|
|
Do light switches go bad and if so, how do I verify? The light switch, which controls the fan in my sons room, is no longer turning the light/fan on anymore. I tried new bulbs and also turning the fan speed on with the pull chains to no avail. All the other lights and outlets work in the room. I took the plate off the switch and my voltage tester it showing it’s live. The only thing I noticed is now the switch is squeaking whenever I try to flip it. Yesterday (when the light switch worked) it didn’t make a noise that I noticed. Any ideas besides just buying a new one and trying it? The only thing I was doing was sanding some spackle in his room above the switch. I doubt it, but could dust have got in there behind the faceplate and caused it to fail? I took a look and the connections are backstabbed into the switch. nwin fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 6, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2023 22:39
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 05:44 |
|
|
H110Hawk posted:It's failed. Buy a couple of them. It could also be the back stabs have failed. If all your switches are like that, and are spring loaded not screwed down, you should expect all of them to fail soon enough. They sell 10-packs of switches for a slight discount. Thanks, I’ve been replacing my outlets with tamper resistant ones and screwing those in since the outlets are backstabbed too. Guess I’ll start the switches tomorrow.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2023 22:59
|
|