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I am thinking of setting up some outdoor circuits for an outdoor kitchen and a shed. I am trying to figure out how deep I have to dig, what conduit to use, and what wiring to run into them. As a side note, I am not in a city jurisdiction, the county did not care when I filed for a permit, and the electric company only cared if I needed a bigger meter. I just want to get it right so I don't die. The outdoor kitchen will service: 2 recepticles. I would of course want GFCI protection An outdoor rated water heater of up to 20 gallons. I see them rated for 110VAC but I wonder if I should have 220 available. A separate light circuit existing in the house to handle some extra lights. It currently handles a single, sad light. I will be adding a step up to my pool operated with that light switch. What do I need to do to ground that properly? The shed is operating a around 8 LED lights and two receptacles that might at most run an air compressor. However, we may install solar on its roof and have wiring that can sustain sending that back houseward. The big issue right now is just getting the conduit right. I want to get that in place so I can pour concrete and continue on the other work. The impression I get is that I should use 1" PVC schedule 80 conduit for each of these lines separately dug 2 feet down. I guess combining lines in one conduit is a no-go. So for the outdoor kitchen, that is one conduit for receptacles, one conduit for the lights, and one conduit for the heater. The shed would probably be a single conduit with a fat line for a 50A subpanel or something. Just for giggles, is there a standard ground box to use for putting in outdoor light poles? PS: I already ran a bunch of plumbing around to the areas where I want hot and cold lines. None of that is particularly deep. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 07:26
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H110Hawk posted:Call back the county and the electric utility and tell them "I am doing prep work to install X KW of solar on my roof." See if they give you better advice like 1.5" conduit at least 18" in the ground at the top of the pipe. There is a lot more power you need to backhaul with a solar installation and the utility will absolutely care about grid tied solar. Or ask a solar contractor about it. Say you're going to do your own permitted subpanel and you want it to be solar ready. If it matters, it is a co-op. They did not care over the phone. They did not care in person. Hell, they were mostly concerned the pole going to my house was old and needed replacing. Tied solar was very much a part of those discussions. If it helps, I am a little surprised too. I did not get any of that advice from them about conduit. I was winging it from what I could deduce from the code.
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Feb 12, 2017 08:51
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I should give a little more context of what I'm doing in the shorter term here. I want to get one with the project and that means getting concrete poured, so I was hoping to get all the electrical conduits and their lines at least run through those areas. They can then be capped at all their destinations and wired later. My outdoor plumbing is already exposed, so it's a good time to use the trencher. It is hard to get electricians out that do the outdoor work right now for some reason so I was planning to just incrementally do as much of it as I can on my own to keep moving elsewhere. It may even hit a point where I just have them out there to set up the panels and connect to the main.kid sinister posted:What kind of step needs electricity? Anyway, all of this work needs to be grounded. UF cable contains a ground wire. Everything will connect to your house grounding. The location of the steps is a little dark right now and may still be when I put in the other lights, so we wanted to put a few narrow lights inside of it because pouring in the extra concrete. It's part an excess decoration, but part safety. If I am setting up all the lines for the light poles without necessarily having the lights themselves sorted out, what should I have in place before concrete is poured? angryrobots posted:However, at such time that you actually install a PV array, you need to make sure your co-op has a net metering rate. The solid state meters we use now, only run one way. So, even if you turn the meter upside down, it still continues to count KWh accurately.
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Feb 12, 2017 18:49
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Okay this all gives me some topics to re-engage with the electric co-op. It could be that when I talked to them before, I didn't know the code words and incantations to trigger the right answers to things. A distance rule with inverters would definitely change things around. The shed's a good 50 feet away. I am also pretty sure the electricians I had bid have just ignored everything I said about solar because none of these concerns came up and nothing about it was every mentioned in walkthroughs of the bids. I am less impressed with them now. OTOH I should probably just see if I'm better off slapping the panels on my house's main roof. I don't think so though; it looks like my shed faces south better. I will doodle something in the next few days so you can see what I'm dealing with.
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Feb 13, 2017 09:10
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Well be careful what you wish for. I doodled an awful drawing, then my scanner died, and I was forced to try this other one that shoved it over to me as a PDF and took... liberties with it: I'm in Central Texas and don't have a frost line. Apparently I only have to go two feet for electric mains. Even 50A out to the shed can be done in 12 inches here. But again--I just don't want to die from all this. The water line is set. It goes off at the one end where I may have an outdoor shower next to the pool some day. Or something. The idea for the outdoor kitchen power is to following those pipes. For the lighting controlled by a switch, it is coming off of the one light on the patio already switched from inside. I used dashed lines to show where it roughly has to go, although in reality it will likely follow the same course as the electric lines going around the outdoor kitchen. I can't get under the existing slab if I did it as-is. That line to the shed is upwards of 100 feet. The fencing does not fully enclose my yard and I don't have to worry about running stuff close to my property boundary. I talked to the one electrician that I'll probably use today and made some understand on lines for solar. He kept thinking I just need one line and all because when he does generators, the line is de-energized when the generator kicks in. I explained to him that we have a slight problem there. At this point, I assume there's a line going out from the main to a subpanel for the shed, and there will be another line going back from the shed to the main when I get solar. Does that sound correct?
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Feb 16, 2017 21:42
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I am trying to run some cable through some conduit and keep getting stuck at a bend. The cable is 2 wires of 6-gauge each made of smaller braided strands. There is also the ground. I tried to use some twine but it flexes too much. I am running this through 1-inch PVC. Generally the path is: Down five feet. 90 degree bend... Along trench four feet. 45 degree bend continuing... Along trench four feet. 45 degree bend continuing... Along trench about sixty feet. I have a coupling about a foot from the start. 90 degree bend... Along trench about ten feet. 90 degree bend... Up six feet to end. The bends are electrical PVC conduits with a more gradual turn; I did not get sharp turns for plumbing or whatever. It appears in particular to get stuck around the second 45 degree turn. I originally had the cable in one, wide sheath. I got further stripping that. The individual wires are still sheathed. I only stripped back about ten feet of 200 feet I have so I can undo it. I think it is snagging on the junction in particular. The wires come out a little bend on the end. I am thinking I need to stagger the wires and bend them back. I tried it with them a little closer and it didn't really do the job. I also intend to use a stuffer rope and maybe try wire lubricant tomorrow. My twine is too stretchy although it does work to maybe get a proper pull rope or whatever through. If you are curious, I sent it through using a Shop Vac with a screen the catch the twine.
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Apr 12, 2018 02:02
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:You're trying to pull a wire in a circle (you've got 360° of bend). This sucks no matter what you do. If your trench is still open, you can cut out those 45s and just lay the pipe in the trench. PVC is pretty bendy and will make a pretty tight curve, all things considering. I think it's this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-125-ft-6-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/3127529 If that doesn't load for you, then the summary is that it's 125 feet of NM-B 6-2. It's three cables in a row sheathed together. It might also be completely stupid to use for this. I'm seeing mixed messages about if I can even run this underground outside. It was at least implied to me when I was shopping to it that it could be buried. I suppose in my case, I am in the county, and the neither the county, the city nearby, nor the utility cared when I went to get a permit for this (the septic, on the other hand...). I personally don't want to die though, so I don't want to do anything stupid. To make things easier on myself, I could probably step back to 8-gauge. I got the six because this line is for an inline heater and I was anticipating a beefier circuit than I actually needed. I would expect a smaller cable will run easier in general--especially in a 1-inch conduit. Define "unmarked" in this case. It's a black, a white, and a bare. Edit: I might be able to soften the bend of that pair of 45 degree turns but I can't really do the same at the other end. The trench is going under a bank of pool pipes and my water main in a rather tight space. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 06:01
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I think I got it mostly figured out but I kind of blew it on the ends. I didn't attach the junction box, and I didn't realize until afterwards how the conduit is mounted into the breaker box the electrician had installed. So I have to play a game now on each end where I push my wires down, install the appropriate end piece, fish the cord out with a hook or something, and pull them back into place. That's unless, well, somebody knows a cute wait to do all this in-place without ruining any wires. What are the names of the pieces I use in the breaker box anyways? The impression I got was that it's basically a threaded female coupling outside the box and threaded male coupling inside the box. The screw together tightly and that keeps it sealed from the elements. Is that the right impression here? For those that were following along, the THHM ran much better, but I did also use wire lube. I way overdid it with extra wire on each end, but after re-aligning everything, I have enough left over to run through the second section to the actual destination. Eventually this is leading to an inline water heater. I was looking at it and the manual shows wiring assuming an outlet. However, it doesn't have a power cord. Is it normal to even have a plug with this stuff? I figured I was wiring right into it.
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Apr 16, 2018 05:53
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angryrobots posted:Even if it's not NEC, having a disconnect at any appliance that isn't cord and plug connected is ideal for service and/or emergencies. And the added cost is minimal, like >$10 even from box stores. I had to get an appliance cable--something rated for 50A, an appliance outlet, and a box. It's not the end of the world but that came in around $30. Most of that was for the big, fat, cable. I have will have to run some 12AWG lines too. Is it okay to use a spool all of one color for that too?
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Apr 16, 2018 18:50
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angryrobots posted:What's the 12AWG for? There are different circuits. It's mostly lighting and to have a few useful outlets around the outdoor kitchen. One circuit is dedicated to a suitable undercounter fridge. These were wired up last year before I got started by an electrician and it's my bit now to take them the last few feet to where they all need to go.
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Apr 16, 2018 19:51
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angryrobots posted:Just out of curiosity, are all these circuits run separately in your trench back to the panel, or do you have a sub panel at the outdoor kitchen with it's own circuit feeding it? The particular circuits in question are in their own conduit going back to the main panel. They don't have a subpanel. The 6AWG wires are in a separate conduit going to a slightly different spot. They don't have a universal subpanel. The main reason for this is that the 12AWG wires were laid last year. One of them was for a small, tank-based water heater. However, the size I wanted to use turned out about 4 inches longer than I could wedge under my counters through a cabinet door. At that point, we decided to just go up to an inline water heater. That screwed everything up and compelled running a new line. For what it's worth, when those 12AWG wires were run, I had also just put in a shed in the opposite direction. I wanted some spare power at just 110VAC out there, so that was installed in a subpanel. My main panel is pretty much full now. 
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Apr 16, 2018 22:22
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angryrobots posted:Ok, getting back to your original question about running these circuits in this outdoor kitchen. He ran them through half-inch conduit he laid in a trench I dug. It was done before I had the concrete patio expanded. They all pop out into a PVC box inside the cabinets. I plan to just run conduit inside everywhere.
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Apr 17, 2018 00:30
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angryrobots posted:Gotcha. So each circuit is in its own 1/2 conduit from the panel to a single PVC box, and they each have their own neutral (and ground)? You're planning to run conduit end-to-end between all devices and boxes in this structure and wire won't be exposed anywhere, that right? No the 12-gauge stuff is in a 1/2" conduit from a year ago, and the 6-gauge is in a 1" conduit I laid just recently. There are four 12-gauge circuits in total. Two are tied to switches inside the house for some lighting and the other two are for outlets and fridge respectively.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:41
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angryrobots posted:So I'm asking, you have four 12-gauge circuits in a single 1/2 conduit and there isn't a shared neutral? That's a lot of wire in a 1/2" conduit... I'll have to double check. The electrician ran that one and even I thought at the time it was pretty impressive he crammed all that in there. If I had known last year, I would have asked for some big, fat, conduit and a pull cord for expansion. I'm planning to run those particular circuits with 3/4" conduit even if I'm going small distances above-ground at this point.
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Apr 18, 2018 04:36
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Apparently it's really hard to get an 8-gauge appliance cable. This inline water heater's inlets are just too small to cram 6-gauge into them; I couldn't even get a 6-gauge 3-wire kit to fit into the molding in the back that was made for running the cable behind it. I couldn't find any 8-gauge cables locally so that's another one for Amazon.Cessna posted:Okay, I'm stuck.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:55
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I am planning to run an AC 5050 LED strip in a channel across a lip in my outdoor kitchen. This lip is for a bar-height counter that overlooks a kitchen-height counter. It's there to help illuminate cooking. These two levels run parallel to each other. The circuit is inside the bar-height counter. I have to punch through the few inches of siding I have to provide the power. The difference in heights is small and mostly taken by 2x4s so I can't easily just punch a box there. The LED strip just takes a two prong cable. I'm using PVC for everything right now. What are my options? Is there some kind of small electrical box I could try to mount instead? At the moment I'm inclined to just punch some conduit out right at the end of the strip and have the wire run inside with some goofy sealer. This could get some water in it so I'm not too keen on it. Edit: An image  I think I technically can cram a box in that scape; I previously had one in there. The problem is the outlet plate would have to be trimmed back and the whole mess would be flush with the kitchen counter. That means water could easily get into it. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 18:39
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The AC 5050 is 120V. It takes regular US household power. I thought all AC 5050s were like that so I didn't specify. So I am not working with 12V with a transformer. Also, when I turn it on, UFOs descend and try to communicate with it. poo poo is bright. I am bouncing it off my counter so it is actually perfect that way. Edit: Default course of action here is to change the external single-gang box on the side of the kitchen to a double-gang and connect the light circuit to that--aesthetics be damned. I think anything else I jury rig won't be hold up and will look uglier. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 23:45
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H110Hawk posted:So they take the 120v as DC instead? He said they take the 120v directly which made me think they were on AC at the diode. Apparently it has an 8A inverter according to the product notes. So I just looked at the chunk it was talking about and right near the plug it's there. The prong end has an "AC" label and the light end has a "DC" label. I'm now really happy I looked at this. My wife was trying to convince me to just castrate the cable, run it through a hole in the outdoor kitchen, and splice it into a box inside. If I had done that, I wouldn't be worrying about a 60 Hertz flicker, I'd be worrying about a one hurt flash.
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Dec 24, 2018 07:15
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You know this PVC conduit junction boxes? The ones with no holes? Do I drill holes in for box adapters and cement them into place? You'd think this would be an easy question at Lowes or Google, but all I get are the threaded type and boxes that already have holes.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:07
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This kind of thing: https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-Gray-Weatherproof-Pvc-Junction-Box/3256598
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Apr 2, 2019 05:43
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:that's how I've seen them used Follow-up then: if I am running 3/4" conduit, do I get 1" breakouts? I had gotten 3/4" only to discover they are flush with the conduit--unless I use the flared end.
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Apr 2, 2019 06:06
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Follow-up then: if I am running 3/4" conduit, do I get 1" breakouts? I had gotten 3/4" only to discover they are flush with the conduit--unless I use the flared end. Answering my own question here, but no, don't use the 1" ones. What surprises my about the whole thing is it looks like I have to install the conduit at the same time as the breakout. This is because I have to slide it through from the inside to the outside. I'll have cement all over it so I better get the pipe--or at least a coupling--on at the same time. It kind of betrays how I have worked with the stuff with other kinds of couplings so it just didn't seem right.
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Apr 2, 2019 17:07
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angryrobots posted:You need to use male adapters with lock rings Okay so I have to use stuff with threads?
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Apr 2, 2019 19:20
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Are there any common alternate names for the lock rings? Nuts? I'm thinking of something like those nuts for schedule 40 but I don't think I've seen that for electrical conduit. I think I can get a bushing or even just a female adapter, but that's kind of large an excessive for what is basically a giant nut.
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Apr 2, 2019 21:00
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No fair! I was searching for PVC!
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Apr 2, 2019 22:15
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If I have learned anything about spare light bulbs, it's that the clock is ticking on them even in their packaging. I had a bout with can lights where my replacements were dying rapidly. This would imply something bad with the can or circuit, but newly-purchased bulbs were fine. From what I saw online, this is apparently a thing.
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Apr 4, 2019 08:38
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Get a voltage tester to make sure the outlet is truly off. To elaborate on that, get the voltage tester to make sure they didn't somehow magically run a neutral from a different circuit or worse to that one outlet despite the breaker being off. You might also be in for a surprise when it comes to having an actual ground connection or not. For other things, consider a nylon screwdriver or at least covering your screwdriver in some masking tape when installing the faceplates so you don't eat a bit of the paint.
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Apr 4, 2019 20:32
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What's a good terminal connector for speaker wire I am running through some 3/4" PVC? I some of it is coming out straight up in the open and I don't want to collect rain in them. I was going to default to caps through which I drill a hole out the side for the wire; I just won't cement it so I can do something else if that is super dumb.
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Apr 9, 2019 15:18
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I feel like if I stuck a meat thermometer probe in a bag of that and laid it around that I'd wind up in Gitmo or something. I'm not the only one that thought that looked like a slab of plastic explosive or something, right?
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Apr 9, 2019 16:51
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:I'm confused here. Youre asking about connectors for the speaker wire but you're worried about getting water in the PVC? I'm just trying to figure out how to run the speaker wire out of the conduit without it being a giant hole. I'm trying to avoid having a box up near the speaker due to size and aesthetics, but if that's what people do to do it right...
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Apr 10, 2019 07:06
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I should probably give some more information here. The conduit is coming up the back side of a fence and the speaker is being mounted on top of a metal fence post that was left tall and uncut. So right now I have this 3/4" PVC shooting straight up like a bean stalk, cut at the fence line, and about another two feet to go into the speakers themselves. I'm trying to figure out how to cover that conduit while still getting the speaker wire out of it in some fashion. Would a wall grommet pointed straight up be okay for that?
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Apr 10, 2019 14:57
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H110Hawk posted:Aren't you mounting your speakers onto a box? Run the conduit straight into that box. Can you post a picture? Post of a picture of a post:  That's what I got right now. I'll be mounting the speakers up towards the top of the posts. I can of course attach other stuff on the end of that 3/4" conduit. It's not mounted to the fence yet since I haven't established what I'm doing yet. The cable I have is CL-3, and I'm running it through the conduit. The exposed part is a problem, I guess. I shouldn't have a bunch of it hanging pretty since the jacket will probably fail in sunlight. Mummify exposed cable in white electrical tape?
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Apr 11, 2019 02:24
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Motronic posted:Why is the conduit on the opposite side of the fence from the post? Why are you not using the post itself as conduit? The fence was there before this whole scheme started and I didn't rally think of drilling into it and running the wire through it. The side with the conduit is a part of my land we don't look at. However, sure, I could mess around with that...
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Apr 11, 2019 04:17
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Update on my speaker wiring shenanigans, I caved in and also got lucky to source some UV-resistant speaker wire. It can be buried, but I would still have done conduit where I did because nothing in the specifications says it would take a few good whacks from a weed whacker. So I still have to keep rain from easily getting into the conduit but I don't have to try to cover up the wires right up to where I connect them to the speakers. At this point, I would dismiss drilling directly into the posts just because these wires have a pretty chunky sleeve on them; I think I'll be questioning my life choices trying to get holes like them through my posts.
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Apr 11, 2019 21:06
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insta posted:Rocko, a "cable gland" is literally the right thing for a waterproof exit from a conduit. I didn't mean to sound dismissive about the cable glands. I had two problems: sealing the conduit, and protecting the exposed wire. So I was saying today I solved the latter. Tonight I am hoping to get cable glands at Lowe's. Hoping... Edit: This is not a Lowe's thing, is it? Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 22:58
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Yeah you say that after I tried to sort it out at Lowes. They started doing something crazy with plumbing PVC and I backed away. Since I took a few days extra off for a vacation this weekend, I'll probably run all this and just jury-rig something while I get the proper things to really finish it off. I'm also having a fun time mounting the speakers without it looking like complete trash. The new wire is 14/2. It measured as precisely 5/16" thick based on my calipers (alternately, .3235mm) and completely round. It has a UV-protective coating and is rated for direct burial. My longest course comes up around 91 feet. For 8 ohm speakers, it's definitely close from what I recall but within limits. I had done a test with comparable length of throwaway 16-gauge cable while I was just messing around with positioning and such. For watching Jaws projected against the side of the house while we're floating in the pool, the audio was "fine" and nothing exploded. These are the high standards with which I'm working. I can't really say I tested the endurance of the amplifier doing this for a whole summer or something. One of the ends of my conduit runs would need a cable gland that could support two of these wires. I also need to stop thinking it's called a "cable bladder."
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Apr 12, 2019 04:56
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In that case, I wish Home Depot would change their name to "Nice Shoes! Are You Interested in Solar Panels or a New Air Conditioner Installation Today?"
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Apr 12, 2019 05:33
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devicenull posted:Just say "I rent" Sure but at that point, I've already lost the mental model I had that was testing the fit of the thermocouple I was staring at and thinking of buying.
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Apr 12, 2019 14:14
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:I went to an electrical supply and they almost couldnt be bothered with selling a single guy $100 worth of conduit but it worked out. While I have your attention: are wire glands generally male threaded? I am inclined to just put a female coupling on my conduit for now and proceeding in the short term. I doubt I would get the final stuff before the weekend is up.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:38
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I replaced my AFCI breakers and found one circuit was hanging steady for a few seconds before tripping. I isolated it to one outdoor lighting circuit based on the switch. If it's off, there's no trip. If I throw it on, I get a few seconds of light out of it before they go out from the breaker tripping. I'm not really looking into ripping apart these fixtures to try to figure out where the problem is so I'm wondering if there are any tricks that might help me find the cockup. Edit: IIRC The breaker tripping after a few seconds implies a ground fault in particular from what I read.
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Jun 11, 2019 07:31
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