Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

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kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Is that existing box on a light switch or dimmer? Back in the 80s, they loved their switched lamps.

There's no issue extending a circuit from an existing box. You could probably just hook up the new NM to the spare set of screws in that box.

TR outlets are a nice upgrade, plus your new box would need one as well. GFCI is overkill though. Ground wires were standard by the 80s, so you shouldn't need GFCIs to do the 3-prong upgrades. Perhaps you're confusing that with AFCI upgrades? Because those are different. Still, that would be easier to accomplish by swapping out for AFCI breakers.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2023 19:41

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 20:52

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

wolrah posted:

In the better part of 20 years of IT work the only times I've ever seen actual interference problems caused by ethernet cables being run too close to power they were either draped directly over a fluorescent light fixture or we're talking about industrial levels of power. Mostly workshops with big motors, one time a massive arc furnace where the power wires literally jumped when it was turned on.

Even those interfering was due to the older magnetic ballasts having, well, big magnets in them. Newer electronic ballasts aren't anywhere near as bad as the old ones.

Also, they do make cat5 and 6 rated for direct burial.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 17, 2023

# ¿ Mar 17, 2023 19:39

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Also, be aware that some panels only accept tandem breakers in certain slots.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2023 21:20

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

DaveSauce posted:

guys when I turn on the light in my garage everything else in my neighborhood dims, is this a problem??

stole this from reddit. It is... amazing.

Not one but multiple suicide cords! Nice.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2023 16:59

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Shifty Pony posted:

Also just FYI not all "dimmable" LEDs get along with every "LED compatible" dimmer.

VERY true. Unfortunately, this will require experimenting on your part, OP.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2023 23:53

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Super-NintendoUser posted:

I built a decent sized pergola on my patio, and I'm looking to get power to it. In the past, I had some twinkle lights and a fan, and I just ran an extension cord from an outside outlet to it. I'd like to do a little better. I'm thinking this:

Run some PVC conduit and wire up a couple outdoor rated outlets with covers up inside the top portion of structure.

at the bottom of a post, put a box but wire up a pigtail with an outdoor rated male plug with a cover.

wire with 12/2, and then from the box on the post use outdoor rated extension

connect the pigtail to the outdoor outlet on my house when needed (it's like 3 feet from the post)

disconnect, stow, and cover the pig tail male plug

Note I'm not talking about a double male connector, just having a built in extension cord, protected by pvc conduit with a little pigtail I can connect as needed.

Something like this, and just make a little 5ft extension cord:
https://www.amazon.com/EPLZON-Elect...al%2C91&sr=1-16

Extension cords aren't allowed for permanent use. There's only one exception for this, and it's intended for indoor wall-mounted TVs.

If you're going to the trouble of conduit, why not just wire it up permanently? If you already had an outdoor outlet on your house, they make Weather Resistant extension boxes. You could take out your existing outlet, put on one of those boxes, put the outlet back into it and you'd have a starting point for conduit out the side or bottom of that box.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2023 01:28

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

First thing I did when I moved into my house was to label the panel correctly. Made it easier to split a circuit in half when my PC and TV would trip the breaker if they were both on at the same time.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2023 22:48

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I need to splice together some ground wires for a low-voltage device (a game controller; I'm wiring up the buttons).

I'm a relative newbie when it comes to this kind of electrical wiring. What I need to have is basically a "main" ground wire that has short runs that T off of it to go to individual buttons. I could presumably do this by taking a wire, removing the sheathing from a short section, soldering a wire to that, etc. But that sounds kind of fragile. How do people who actually know what they're doing handle this kind of situation?

I bought a "wiring harness" for this job, which is plug-and-play: it has wires that terminate in sockets which fit over the prongs on the buttons, and it daisy-chains the ground wires together using those sockets. But I can't use the harness, because of specific limits on how my project is laid out and the amount of room I have available.

On a related note: recommendations for flux for electrical soldering? Or is that not needed? My prior soldering experience is all either jewelry or plumbing.

We do have an electronics thread here in DIY. I'm on mobile otherwise I'd link it. We love helping newbies!

That being said, since this is a ground wire that won't be exposed, you could just run a bare wire and solder to it where needed. You can make any wire bare with a razor blade. You don't even have to make the entire wire bare, just cut back spots to solder to along the length.

Most electronics grade solder now is rosin core, so it has the flux inside it already. Just use an electronics grade solder. You can't use the stuff from plumbing.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jun 25, 2023

# ¿ Jun 25, 2023 00:39

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Blackbeer posted:

Look for a "round pan box" (sometimes "shallow pan box") that is the depth of the sheetrock. You might have to get shorter screws or cut off screws to mount the bracket to the box.

There are also saddle boxes if you need a little extra room for wires.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jun 26, 2023

# ¿ Jun 26, 2023 23:06

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Chronojam posted:

Is there a master list of terribad electrical panels?

Federal Pacific
Zinsco
Challenger
Pushmatic, but this one is because they're obsolete. They never made AFCI breakers for them and NOS for regular breakers is drying up.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 25, 2023

# ¿ Jul 25, 2023 03:51

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

It only matters if you see yourself drywalling that garage in the foreseeable future.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2023 00:17

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

obi_ant posted:

I rent a really old apartment that was built in the 1930s. Some of the outlets are able to accept three prongs, but when I opened them up, there isn't a ground. I opened a few other ones and it's a mix of metal and plastic electrical boxes. Here is a picture of the metal electrical box.

Upon doing a bit of research I think I have two options here, but unclear as to which one I should do. My goal is to increase the safety of the boxes and protect the electronics from a voltage spike.

1. Buy a surge protector. From my understanding the surge protector will work even if the outlet is not grounded and if there is a voltage spike the protector will break instead of my electronics connected to it. (but without a grounding wire, will this even work?)
2. For the metal boxes, I can buy a grounding wire, connect it to the ground portion of the outlet and somewhere on the metal box which allows another screw in to ground it.

Also, not too sure if it matters the side of the apartment where I'm looking at the plugs all use these older style plugs https://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-Bussmann-SL-Style-20-Amp-Plug-Fuse-4-Pack-SL-20PK4/100081165

Edit: Saw a video explaining that installing a GFCI outlet will protect a person from electric shock, but it seems that without the grounding wire, I'm out of luck for the electronics?

Cloth wire never came with a ground wire. Well... ground wire first appeared in the 1950s inside NM wire that had an outer sheath that was woven, but the inner conductors had plastic insulation.

1. Yes, all but the oldest surge protectors will offer some neutral protection.

2. This is only allowed if the box itself was grounded. You'll need an old fashioned 2 probe circuit tester to see if the box is even hooked up to anything.

GFCI outlets are most likely what the LANDLORD would have to do. Don't do anything if you're just renting.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2023 23:12

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

emocrat posted:

I have 2 outlets that I am removing completely. They are supplied by metal clad cable and are in metal boxes (1970 era wiring) and are affixed to studs. I would like to be able to path the holes with drywall.

I will disconnect the cable running to the 2 boxes both at its origin and inside the boxes to be removed. Cut the cables flush so they cannot be re used. Is this correct? do I need to label them in a particular way? Is in terms of patching the holes is my best bet to enlarge the cut in the drywall to remove the box, or is there a method that leaves the box buried?

There's only 2 products allowed for burying cable, but they're for NM cable, not MC. There are also rules for how many outlet boxes must be placed along so many inches of wall for most rooms.

Define "path the holes with drywall".

# ¿ Aug 28, 2023 21:25

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Motronic is right. If that has cloth wire insulation, then it predates the 1950s.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2023 00:21

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Also, keep in mind that only dates when it was made, not necessarily when it was installed. Someone could have spotted it at a flea market when it wasn't so old 20 or so years later, fell in love with it and installed it.

If you're wondering, reproduction cloth covered plastic insulated wire is available today. Plugs too. I've used them before when restoring a radio from 1940.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2023 03:34

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

That isn't to code. It will need to be replaced.

Did they do that to fit the depth of the wall cavity? There are other choices for old work boxes. You have more choices for depth with steel boxes with plaster ears and those bendy side brackets.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2023 01:51

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

devmd01 posted:

Yep, works fairly well, just need to be careful that the blade doesn’t slip.

I've done it too. Works like a dream.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2023 18:32

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

It sounds like you have a ground-neutral short somewhere. They can do that where they are marginal until something big turns on.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2023 23:32

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Dr. Lunchables posted:

Ahh. Ok. I just had my panel swapped a month ago and this problem has persisted between panels. It�s not at the panel level AFAICT, it�s somewhere downstream.

Undo that circuit's neutral and ground from their respective busbars. Unplug everything. See if there's continuity between ground and neutral on that circuit still, then report back.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2023 02:51

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

gonadic io posted:

(x-posted from the general DIY thread)
I have one of these because my DSL router keeps getting fried by lightning. But I'm struggling to find a good place to earth it. There's a normal (UK, 3 pin, plastic) electrical socket next to it. I couldn't find any 3-pin sockets that have an exposed earth post or something, do those exist? As far as I can see my other options are: try to see if the screws attaching the socket to the wall are earthed, make a little hole in the socket plate to feed an earth wire out through, ditto for the telephone line socket, or try to piggyback from using an actual intended earth pin in the socket with no actual plug attached? Or just do nothing and try to unplug my modern during thunderstorms until I get ftth ofc.

After some thought I might use a normal 3-pin socket with only the ground pin connected to anything. ESD sockets are not suitable due to their high resistance for discharging charged objects slowly. There's some woo grounding sockets I've been shown actually.

In the US, we call the frame of the outlet itself the "yoke". They're grounded, which means the face plate screws are grounded. Do you have a 2 prong circuit tester? See if there's a circuit between the hot hole and the faceplate screw. If so, just screw that spade terminal to the faceplate screw.

edit: another option would be to buy a repair outlet and just run that green wire to the ground prong.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Oct 18, 2023

# ¿ Oct 18, 2023 19:08

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

H110Hawk posted:

You might also see if you can pickup a cheap UPS with rj-11 jacks that provide surge protection. This would give you a "listed solution" that doesn't involve trying to find a place to screw in something meant for a commercial application.

https://www.cyberpower.com/uk/en/product/series/brics_lcd

Just make sure it's an RJ11 version. RJ45 solutions sometimes don't even connect all 4 pairs internally.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2023 05:10

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Epitope posted:

My garage has two man-doors. The light switch is by one door. I want another switch by the other door. Does it work to run the wire on top of the drywall, in conduit or whatever? The existing switch is in a behind-the-drywall box. Can I mount the surface box over that box, or is there a box extention or something? Will this be hard, should I just call an electrician?

That wireless solution would be quick, but to answer your question, yes, there are surface mount extension boxes that you mount on existing in wall boxes that allow for a starting point for conduit. Your two hard wired options would be plain old conduit or wire molding.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2023 01:10

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

$100 for a copier switch vs $20 to do it the right way.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2023 02:18

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Steve French posted:

Is there any way to tell from the breaker itself (or does it depend on the model) if it’s tripping due to a ground fault or an overload?

Take the breaker cover off. Undo that circuit's neutral and ground wires. Use a multimeter continuity test and see if there's continuity between that circuit's ground and neutral. Now those wires are only supposed to be joined in the main breaker panel. If they have continuity, then those wires are touching in the wall somewhere and you have an arc fault.

Now try for a circuit between hot and ground. Those 2 touching would trip a regular breaker. If after those 2 tests you got nothing, it's probably an overloaded circuit.

Note that these tests can't tell you where the trip is occurring, only that it has occurred. Finding where is a bunch of legwork.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2023 23:44

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Faustian Bargain posted:

i’ve got a 20a circuit in my garage that used to be a dedicated line for a pellet stove, but is currently powering a refrigerator. the previous owner for some reason also wired the indoor garage light outlets on the ceiling and the outdoor light fixture to this same circuit.

i am about to replace some damaged drywall and since ive got the wall open next to the outdoor light and i have no outlets on this side of the garage and wondering if i can 1) add 2 outlets on this circuit 2) gfci one/both or if i have to gfci further up

i don’t have an issue actually doing stuff like this just want to be safe.

How old is your fridge? Older ones like 20 years old can trip a GFCI with false positives.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2024 01:01

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

If you do have to put a fridge on a GFCI outlet, they do make GFCIs with alarms so you at least have a chance at saving your food. I recommend them for deep freezers too.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2024 01:39

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Faustian Bargain posted:

okay, so what’s wrong with just slapping in a gfci outlet off the run where the light is, and then that should protect the outlet further down the run too?

then i’m not loving with anything else existing, other than moving the conduited stuff into the attic.

Where's the light located? You can't put GFCIs on ceilings.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2024 01:48

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Rat Poisson posted:

In my 1960’s house I have an outlet in the kitchen where it looks like someone strung a bare ground wire from one more-recent circuit (80’s?) through a couple stud bays to another outlet that only has the original 1960’s 12/2 (with no ground) NM cable in it. The outlets are on separate breakers. So the PO seems to have effectively provided a ground to the original 60’s outlet using this jumper wire from the newer circuit. The newer 80’s outlet uses what I’d call “modern” NM 12/2 w/ ground wire as far as I can trace it from the kitchen though the attic and back to where it enters the wall for the final run to the main panel, so it looks like that part of the 80’s wiring is done correctly.

Is passing that ground wire as a bare wire (no insulation at all) between the two circuits safe? It’s all behind drywall. I figure it’s probably okay (but maybe not ideal under modern code) since the ground is not meant to normally carry current, and those grounds would all end up back at the same point in the electrical panel anyhow. It should be providing that alternative path in case a neutral fails or whatever, even if the ground from the 60’s outlet is joining and running through a separate run of Romex back to the panel, no?

Believe it or not, that's actually a code legal 3 prong upgrade method. You can run bare or green jacketed grounds to ungrounded outlets to upgrade them to 3 prong ones. Note: it has to be of appropriate size for that circuit: 14# for 15 amp circuits and 12# for 20 amp circuits.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2024 22:55

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Those are old phone land line hookups. At best they used Cat3. You're better off running a new line.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Mar 11, 2024

# ¿ Mar 11, 2024 14:34

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

I've seen old work boxes that can screw into studs via screws on the inside of the box. I want to say they were from Arlington? They have my favorite selection of boxes, especially low voltage ones.

Edit: yep https://www.aifittings.com/catalog/specialty-boxes/one-box-non-metallic-outlet-boxes/

Edit2: If you don't mind me asking, why do you need adjustable boxes? Are your walls really thick and boxes really deep? If so, just use longer screws. Outlet/switch box screws are #6-32.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 31, 2024

# ¿ Mar 31, 2024 18:55

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Woops, this ain't the electronics thread...

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 6, 2024

# ¿ Apr 5, 2024 20:59

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

You should only be getting 120V line to neutral. Check the wiring at the panel. Something ain't right.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 01:07

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Kasan posted:

No continuity at the panel, outlet, pigtail, or even the poles on the stove according to my continuity tester on my multimeter.

At the panel that's exactly what I get. At the outlet that's exactly what I get. At the pigtail, that's exactly what I get. At the machine, I get values that electrically should be impossible with the other three conditions being true.

Disconnect everything and start from scratch, starting at the panel. Test for voltage every step of the way.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2024 00:06

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

AlternateNu posted:

Ehhhhhh. RJ-11 jacks are usually just CAT3 cable. So you're only getting three pair. If you're just looking to run basic analogue signals over POTS lines, it might work. But if you're looking for any sort of bandwidth above that, you'll need to rip those out anyway for some CAT5 or better.

4 pair CAT3 exists. Best it can do is 10 Mbit though.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2024 16:26

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

SyNack Sassimov posted:

Yes. I was under the impression the C was for combination.

It is. Decades ago there were two types of AFCI breakers before they were combined into one. Then on top of that, there are dual function breakers, which add the two types of AFCI to GFCI.

Confused yet?

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 24, 2024

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 17:01

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Jabronie posted:

Also, id recommend commercial grade receptacles for any outlet that’s being plugged into a lot such as spots for vacuums or kitchen appliances. They’ll cost a little more but the springs will last longer.

Seconding commercial grade outlets for countertops.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 17:11

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Bone Crimes posted:

What was the point of Split boxes? We're they just cheaper? I have one, and I don't like the idea that I don't have a way to shut off the bus bars from the service. This rule of 6 stuff just reeks of post-hoc justification.

Split boxes are for having both line and low voltage in the same box, with the divider separating them.

# ¿ May 2, 2024 19:53

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Bone Crimes posted:

mine has 240v breakers on the lower section behind the 'main' breaker, so I'm not sure what you mean by low voltage.

Then call it what it is, please. Split boxes are for devices. That's a breaker panel.

# ¿ May 2, 2024 21:17

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Weren't garage ceiling outlets for garage door openers exempt for GFCIs? I know you can't mount a GFCI outlet there as it violates the accessibility rule.

# ¿ May 4, 2024 00:13

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 20:52

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

The Slack Lagoon posted:

Do induction ranges require any different wiring than a traditional electric range?

Electricity is electricity. The internal wiring may be different, but the external wiring via the hookup is the same.

# ¿ May 4, 2024 19:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

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