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LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Xerin posted:

She said that declawing comes standard when they neuter them and they prefer not to neuter without doing a declawing too and they rarely don't declaw cats.

Whenever someone tells me that unnecessary declawing is the way to go, I like to inform them that declawing is illegal in one US city already and similar laws are being considered elsewhere.

Of course, it's very controversial as a city-based law and it doesn't affect much in the one city where it is illegal, but that's beside the point...

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LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Ashcans posted:

Cat peeing outside the box

It sounds like you have more than one cat and only one litter box, so I would start by adding a litter box. Pick up some Cat Attract and add it to the litter while you're at it. Maybe another cat ambushed him at some point and he's just freaked out by the current litter box, or maybe another cat was in the litter box/had used it recently and he just doesn't like that.

Clean any areas he's peeing on with an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle, of course. Not just a normal cleaner. There's a whole section of the OP to this thread dedicated to litter box problems.

Cats don't have vendettas. They understand cause and effect. I'm guessing your vet already did a urinalysis/blood test/X-rays, but if adding another box doesn't help, it might not hurt to take the cat back in and see if there's anything else they should rule out.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

August gives you some time to try things out, if you aren't at the end of your rope already.

First, you are going to need 2 more litter boxes. For a cheaper-than-PetCo option, you can pick up Rubbermaid bins and cut entries into them. Don't get just 1. Having an excess of litter boxes + using an enzymatic cleaner to thoroughly clean soiled areas will hopefully fix the improper elimination issues before you move. If adding 2 boxes doesn't help right away, try adding Cat Attract again - just buy the litter additive and use a little bit at a time.

Scoop the litter boxes at least once a day. Fortunately, with 4 boxes in the house, this will be much less horrible than what you're experiencing now with just 2.

Adding the litter boxes may help reduce tension between the cats.

For counters, go to Target/Wal-Mart/Home Depot or something and look in their drawer liner aisle. Pick up some basic contact paper. Cut it to the right size, lay it sticky-side-up on the counter where he usually jumps up, and tape down the edges with normal Scotch tape. You could also try aluminum foil.

For clawing at doors, check out the Scratching at the Door section of the OP.

For meowing... god help you. Sorry.

And finally, for money... you need to follow BFC if you don't already. Get CareCredit if you haven't. Build up a savings account for vet bills, for both of your cats. Make a budget and lay out a plan to pay off your credit card, because having that debt for over a year isn't doing you any favors.

I think you stand a really good chance of making this work, but you really need more advice from BFC than from PI right now.

Mad Pino Rage posted:

-If you catch them scratching, then give them a little smack. You can also just grab them and use their paws on things that are okay to scratch then pet them and treat them. I'm not a cat psychologist, but I resort to to stuff like that hoping it will work.
Please don't ever smack your cat as punishment. Find a no-contact way of discouraging behavior you don't want, like the standard vacuum cleaner noise or a Ssscat.

Hell, some cats enjoy being smacked or just like any kind of attention at all, so it isn't effective at discouraging them. Cat smacking video. :3:

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

RabbitMage posted:

Money is a big issue. I'm living with family, and if I were paying for all of Kit's expenses, it would take up a third of my income right now. I have financial aid coming, so finances will improve, but then I'll also have more bills to deal with. I'm a frequent lurker in BFC, but having next to no income really limits what I can do. My credit score is already Not Good and I've just taken out two student loans. Even if CareCredit would take me, I really don't want it. I've got over $800 of animal-related debt already and I can't take on more reasonably with what little income I have.

Family will not allow additional litterboxes in the house, but the ones we have are scooped twice daily. The peeing isn't constant and doesn't seem to have any correlation to the cleanliness of the boxes. Just...sometimes he wants to pee in the laundry room or on a door or on the freezer. Family also doesn't want any "weird stuff" on the counters. I've suggested both these options before.

If it were me living on my own, and I were the only one dealing with him, it would be less of an issue. But I can't afford to live on my own, and I really can't risk getting kicked out of a place. When I move I will have more flexibility with what I can do, assuming my roommates can be accommodating.
Having 3 cats with 2 litter boxes is asking for trouble. It isn't just about box cleanliness. You have 1 cat with a history of urinary problems and 1 cat that's over 14 years old. Neither of those cats should ever have to wait for a litter box. You need more litter boxes, fewer cats, or people who are okay with accidents.

They're your cats, so you get to decide what you think is the best option. If it were me, I would probably either convince the family to allow some inconvenience for a month until move-out (by begging and/or volunteering for all chores period), or keep him confined to one room where it's easier to deal with the problems on a small scale.

The cat-specific problems are honestly pretty simple, individually. They seem overwhelming when they're all put together, but you can focus on one at a time and it will eventually get better.

Your financial problems are much more significant. As an outsider, I don't really think you can afford to have any cats at all, but I know lots of people beat the odds and make it work just out of sheer stubbornness. It takes a hell of a lot of commitment, a lot of creativity, and a very serious set of priorities, so I can't say it's right for everyone. Maybe someone else will have some better insight for you.

waah posted:

I am looking for advice for a) finding ways to play with PJ without him murdering every toy in minutes, and for a way to continually play with him instead of needing to break until he lets go of the toy to try to continue to murder it. And b) finding a way to get Omega to actually show interest in jumping around to shed some of his weight. (They do play fight a bit, it has never gotten serious a few small growls and swipes, but almost instantly after they are grooming each other.).
a) Try unconventional toys. Empty pill bottles (or add some rice to make it rattle), milk caps, ping-pong balls. Toys made out of denim might also be a good option, but it depends on the toy. For string-like toys, try durable fabric cords, like what you can get in fabric stores for curtain tiebacks. You can knot one end to give yourself something to hold onto, and he'll just unwind the other end. Don't whack him with it, obviously, since it's quite a bit heavier than your usual string toys, and put it away when you're done so he doesn't eat the thread.

b) A lack of interest in toys can be because playing is uncomfortable, such as from arthritis or other health issues, so keep that in mind. Otherwise, switch to supervised scheduled feedings and put them on an actual diet. I feel like those automatic feeders are useless if you have more than one cat and any of them are fat, because you can't tell if someone's stealing another cat's food. The foraging toys mentioned by four lean hounds can be great for motivating fat cats, just make sure the right cat is getting the right amount of food.

You should play with your cats, of course, but it's difficult to make a cat lose weight just by increasing their activity level, which is what it sounds like you're hoping for. Sorry if I misunderstood.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

l33t b4c0n posted:

I'm now a bit worried about Ethel. She's been having hairball problems roughly once every two-to-three days, and her appetite has dropped considerably. She seems completely chill and in no noticeable pain, but her appetite has just changed so suddenly that I'm concerned.

I imagine you already have plans to do so, but just in case, please take her to the vet. Cats are really good at hiding pain/discomfort, and sometimes a depressed appetite is the first sign you get that something is wrong. A lot of relatively harmless things can cause a cat to eat less than usual, but you don't want to mess around with the more serious possibilities.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Lareine posted:

She very well could be doing it compulsively but she scratches an awful lot too so I think she is genuinely itchy.
Do you have any vet dermatologists in the area? As Schnooks said, a lot of things can cause excessive grooming, so seeing a specialist might help you identify it a bit faster. The first time I encountered over-grooming, my cat actually had mange, which my vet had never seen in a cat before. The vet did a skin scraping and it was just covered in microscopic mites.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Pollyanna posted:

Finally the message is out there, cat poo poo really DOES lead to crazy cat ladies!


All hail our cat poop parasite overlords :getin:

Is this really that big of a deal? Obviously there's the whole worry about "cat poop parasites are hijacking our brain to MAKE us feel less scared of them", but should we break out the anti-poop parasite vaccines and medicines now or is the cat poop -> schizophrenia coincidence just a coincidence?
This is what happens when a news source runs out of things to say. None of the stuff they're talking about is new. There has been talk about some sort of relationship between schizophrenia and toxoplasmosis for at least the past 5 years (when I first read about it because of a family member who has schizophrenia).

The other thing they're trying to downplay is just how rare toxoplasmosis infections are from indoor cats. Lots of people have already been exposed to the parasite and have developed an immunity to it. I believe cats also develop an immunity, so they can only be infected once, and they usually get it by eating other infected mammals/birds. The cat then sheds parasite eggs for 2-3 weeks after becoming infected, and the eggs take another 1-30 days before they can infect humans. Then you'd have to eat cat poop to become infected. Wash your hands more often.

If you want to be really freaked out about it, it's much more likely that you'll get the disease from unwashed vegetables or contact with raw meat. So it's hilarious that California ran the "SAVE THE OTTERS" campaign and insisted that you shouldn't flush cat litter down the toilet because :byodame: Toxoplasmosis, but you're still allowed to rinse your vegetables and cutting board in the sink.

This was a really interesting study some years ago about the sources of infections in Chile. They basically found that over 50% of the infections came from exposure to infected meat. They also found indications that the surface water itself is infected.

Another interesting study where they talk about infected drinking water. Again, they identify the main transmission modes as "(i) from mother to fetus, (ii) by consumption of undercooked meat containing tissue cysts, and (iii) by ingestion of food or water contaminated by sporulated oocysts." The water did have to become contaminated by cats, but in many cases they are talking about wild cats, like mountain lions, not house cats.

Obviously people should be diligent about washing their hands as a precaution (but not just because of toxoplasmosis), but the news may as well be running a headline that says "Scientsts discover baby diapers can transmit E. coli." It's true, has been known for years, but most people are never going to run into that problem in that way.

Edit: VVVV Oops, not a virus. :) Edited to "parasite" and hopefully that's more accurate.

LoreOfSerpents fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jul 10, 2013

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Cats. :allears: I'm not nearly qualified to answer your question, but if you're really concerned, you might be able to call an after-hours vet or a 24-hour animal poison control hotline. Obviously take her to a vet if she's acting weird. I would be surprised if cats couldn't digest taffy, though. I'd expect it to just be a lot more sugar than she's supposed to have.

More importantly, why is there a ghost crossing the street behind your cat? :iiam:

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

aghastly posted:

Does anyone have experience with heart murmurs? The vet diagnosed Toast with a grade 1 heart murmur while he was getting vaccinated today, which she said might be concerning later on if it gets worse and when it's time to neuter him.

Bonus tired Toast pic:


I have a little different experience with heart murmurs, so have some more info!

My cat was diagnosed with a severe heart murmur shortly after I adopted her (and after she had been spayed). When you pick her up, you can actually feel the weird heartbeat.

Our vet offered to set up an appointment with a specialist who travels around to vet clinics with cardiology equipment and does cardiology workups on patients. We did that, and the specialist graded it a 6 (the loudest heart murmur), caused by a hole in her heart that's about .5 centimeters in diameter (a pretty big hole for a cat). Prognosis was guarded. We were told that if we really wanted to fix the problem, she would likely need to undergo heart surgery, which was $25,000 and was only really done at a single veterinary university on the other side of the country.

We then learned that this specialist was actually trained in anesthesiology, not cardiology, so we wanted a second opinion. We repeated the same tests at a veterinary university with an actual cardiology department. They didn't believe the specialist's test results because loud heart murmurs are usually associated with small holes - blood in the heart is forced through a small hole at a very fast speed, causing a loud noise. Low-grade murmurs, on the other hand, can be associated with large holes, because blood is able to get through the hole at a slower pace and is therefore much quieter. The combination of a loud murmur with a large hole didn't add up.

It turned out the specialist was right. Our cat had a very loud heart murmur, caused by a large hole in her heart, which she was probably born with. But we got very lucky - the hole is located in a place where blood actually picks up more oxygen than it needs before going out into the body. Holes in the heart are much more dangerous when the hole allows oxygen-deprived blood to get delivered.

Fast forward about 6 years. Our cat is doing great so far. You'd never know by watching her that anything is wrong. She has gained about 3.5 pounds since we adopted her, going from 6 pounds to 9.5 pounds, and her heart murmur has been downgraded to a 4. She goes in to a cardiologist every 2-3 years so they can compare her test results, but she's been stable. She doesn't need any medication yet, and her heart has enlarged slightly to compensate for the defect.

We do have to be careful about anesthesia and any medication she's given for anything. It's important that any vet who handles your cat is aware of the murmur. I'd suggest getting a cardiologist to look at your cat and tell you what's behind the murmur.

For :20bux: considerations, the vet university charged the same amount of money as the specialist who wasn't officially trained in cardiology, and we got a lot more information from the vet university. I would recommend going that route if you can, because the amount of information they can give you is amazing.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Shnooks posted:

Long story about my cat's nasty feet ahead.

Gallery of toebeans

That is the weirdest thing. :stare: Maybe your vet would know of an internal medicine specialist to consult with? I would think if it's not obviously from a bacterial or fungal infection, something internal might be a good next step.

Since you said you clip his claws religiously, I do know you can encourage some infections by trimming claws too far. I have no idea if such an infection would cause that, though.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

ManifunkDestiny posted:

Hey folks. So I just accepted a job that's going to require me to move from Indiana to Washington state. In the middle of December. With 3 cats.

I'm going to die, aren't I?

Seriously though, do you all have any tips for traveling long distances in a car with cats? I've never taken them for car rides for more than 20 minutes, and on those trips they meow incessantly (but thankfully didn't get motion sick or anything). I'll be going in a Honda Accord, so I don't have a lot of room in the back seat for a massive crate, so any tips you all could lend for traveling by car for multiple days with cats would be greatly appreciated. My wife is a vet so we can get drugs/sedatives if need be, but I'd prefer to not have to do that.

Thanks!

We did a similar drive last December, from Wisconsin to Washington. With 3 cats. In a UHaul. You probably won't die.

I don't recommend the drive, though, especially in winter. It's bitterly cold, and there's no respite from the weather until western Washington. If I had to do it again, I'd just fly with the cats as carry-on. I thought flying would be too stressful for them, but the elevation changes are still significant with the drive, and it takes three days. Driving for 3 days was way more stressful than flying would've been.

If you have to drive, pack intelligently and bring emergency supplies. Don't try to tackle any of the major mountain passes late in the day. We planned our overnight stays so that we'd be hitting the major mountain passes early in the day. We stayed in La Quinta Inns throughout the whole trip, since they were pet-friendly.

Some highlights from our trip:
  • We only had room for one large carrier in the UHaul cab. All three adult cats were shoved into a large crate meant for a dog.
  • We tried to give them litter box breaks every time we stopped for gas. Only one cat used the litter box while in the truck, and she really didn't want to go back in the carrier afterward.
  • The first night, our cats were thrilled to be out of the carrier. They were not so thrilled to go back in the next morning. Over the course of the trip, it got progressively harder to get them back in the carrier in the morning.
  • None of them ate or drank in the truck.
  • The first day, they were miserable but fairly quiet. The second day, they started getting a little obnoxious, meowing a lot. The third day, they were scrabbling frantically at the carrier, meowing pitifully, and basically making me feel like a monster.
  • It took 30 minutes to unload everything into the hotel room at night. That involved unloading the cats, getting them set up with their needs, and unloading the liquids that would've frozen if we'd left them in the truck overnight.
  • Our UHaul was stolen the night we got to our new apartment, along with most of our possessions, so the drive was pretty pointless anyway.

Just fly. I highly recommend the drive in the spring/summer, without cats, because it's beautiful when you can enjoy it.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

melon cat posted:

Is Wilsarin (rat/mouse poison) safe for cats to ingest?

I'm asking because we need my parents to watch our cats for a weekend, but due to a recent mouse infestation they have pellets of Wilsarin scattered in the basement. And one of our cats is the type that will try to eat/chew on anything lying on the ground, from dust bunnies to tissues. They'll try to keep the cats out of the basement, but there's always the off-chance that they might sneak down into it.

I was thinking of cleaning up as much of the poison as I can, but there's always the risk of leaving some behind. It'd be nice to have a cat-sitter, give my cats a chance to have a mouse killfest, and eliminate my parents' rodent problem all at once.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it. Cellulose-based poisons are technically marketed as not being dangerous for secondary ingestion (i.e., not toxic to whatever eats the poisoned mice/rats), but that isn't the same as saying it's safe for pets to eat directly. I doubt these companies are in a hurry to do feeding trials on cats or dogs.

Wilson makes several kinds of poisons, many of which are definitely not safe for other animals, so you'd also have to trust that no other poisons have ever been used, there wasn't a mistake at the manufacturing plant, the mice haven't had access to any other poisons outside of the house, etc.

Also, letting your cats "have a mouse killfest" is a good way for them to be exposed to parasites/diseases anyway, so it's kind of in your best interests to keep them away from vermin infestations.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

floofyscorp posted:

How do I encourage my picky graze-y cats to eat their meals in one sitting? We've moved to supervised mealtimes to try and stop them from just eating each other's(specially chosen for their particular health needs! FLUTD and mysterious food allergies, aaaa) food because of course the stuff you're not meant to eat is much more delicious, but they're used to being able to nibble from the bowl over the course of the entire night so they'll often eat a bit when we serve up, then gently caress off elsewhere in the house expecting to be able to come back to it whenever. No amount of cajoling and sneaky treat-burying can convince Loki to finish his food in one sitting, and while I'm dearly tempted to try him on various new foods to see if there's something he's more enthusiastic about, I'm trying to be strict about what type of protein he's getting so I can narrow down what the hell he's actually reacting to. He's already a small and borderline-skinny cat, I want him to put some weight on :( (Cinnamon is on the chonker side so I'm less concerned about her being picky; she does finish her food on the next feeding at least, and unless she flat-out refuses to eat her food anymore I'm not inclined to consider new foods since the stuff she gets is so specialised)

Is this just something they're going to have to get used to and be kinda hungry in the meantime when I remove the food bowls between mealtimes? Is there some kind of delicious additive I can sprinkle/pour on their food to encourage them to eat but won't gently caress with their special diets? I'm starting to sympathise with parents who are trying to get their children to eat vegetables. JUST PLEASE EAT THE BROCCOLIKIBBLE IT'S GOOD FOR YOU
Two more suggestions for you, in case pulling their food on schedule doesn't work:
  1. (Cheap) Isolate them in separate rooms with their food and keep the doors closed whenever you can't supervise the food yourself. This is not very popular because cats like to wander, but it's still incredibly effective at limiting food availability.
  2. ($$$) Get each of them a microchip-based feeder. We have a SureFeed microchip feeder and it's great. Even our dumb cat figured out how to use it. Downside is the dishes are plastic. Make sure you clean them often.
The first option was what ended up working the best for getting our underweight cat to eat properly. We thought it'd be horrible, but some cats are genuinely better off being isolated. We have one cat who throws up if she doesn't eat often enough, and another cat who throws up if he eats too quickly, so... best of both worlds.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Protocol7 posted:

No, and that hasn't even been recommended by any of the vets honestly. I just got back and they said he wasn't blocked yet, just having some muscle spasms/cramps so they have him a shot of Onsior to help, and then of course he pissed in the carrier on the way home. Going through urine cleaning supplies like crazy. I'm just glad he finally did pee though.

He is on Orbax daily for the next three weeks and that should hopefully kick whatever infection is going on in his bladder (two separate urinalyses confirm no crystals, only bacteria and blood cells present), and then assuming I don't have to make any return trips in the next three weeks I'll ask the vet how we can manage this in the future.

It's been a few days - how is he doing?

With persistent urinary issues, things I can think of that are under your direct control (disclaimer: not a vet):
  • Try to increase water intake. Offer wet food, and make water more interesting (replace and refill water dishes daily, offer pet fountains that are cleaned regularly, etc.).
  • Do not skip or delay a dose of any medication. Seriously. Set recurring alarms and make sure you stick to that religiously. If it says every 12 hours, it doesn't mean 10 or 14. Never mess around with medication schedules in a cat who has urinary problems.
  • Do not get lazy and stop medication after you think the symptoms are gone, unless your meds specifically say "until symptoms go away."
  • Keep litter boxes clean and available, especially favorite boxes. Many cats prefer to pee in a different place than they poop. If your cat ever has to wait to use a litter box (because the one he prefers is in use), it's time to add another box. Sorry.
  • Monitor your cat's litter box habits like a hawk until he's better. Hopefully you use a litter that's low-dust and light colored so it's easy to see problems.
And things you might want to follow up with your vet about (disclaimer: still not a vet):
  • Did they do a urine culture to identify the specific bacteria in the infection? A urinalysis is not the same as a urine culture. Some antibiotics are better than others depending on the infection. An inappropriate antibiotic can be a huge a waste of time, resulting in a frustrating cycle of trying one antibiotic, finding out it didn't work, and then trying another one.
  • Did they do a blood test?
  • If you know it's the right antibiotic and the symptoms still come back after completing the regiment, you might want to talk about a longer dose. Our cat had a really stubborn bladder infection that didn't stay away after multiple 2-week antibiotic courses, even though we knew the bacteria and antibiotic were a good match, but it finally went away after our vet had us do a longer course. (Not all antibiotics can be safely extended, so it definitely has to come from your vet.)
  • Some antibiotics can cause other issues, like diarrhea or appetite loss. This can make the situation seem like it's spiraling completely out of control. Ask your vet about side effects and be prepared to add yet another treatment to control those.
  • If in doubt, get a second opinion.

Life was hell when our cat's bladder infection kept coming back. I hope your kitty recovers quickly. For really obnoxious cases, a cat-only clinic can be really useful if you have a good one close by.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

I. M. Gei posted:

Are blueberries poisonous to cats?

My cat just happily devoured part of a blueberry muffin. :ohdear:
They aren't toxic to cats and are sometimes included in cat food, so unless your cat is allergic to them, you should be fine.

The rest of the stuff in the muffin might still cause a little GI upset, though, so good luck!

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Wroughtirony posted:

Has anyone here given a cat a nasal spray?

I have an 8 month-old 4.5 Lbs FIV+ kitten who has chronic sinusitis. Steroid shots help, but she can only have them 4 times a year and they only help for about a month at a time. She doesn't sneeze or cough, she just has nasal congestion and snores a ton. I worry that her chronic congestion will make her more susceptible to illnesses, but at the same time I don't want to go nuts medicating something that might not be serious. Our other 10 yo Tuxedo cat is wheezy and in perfectly good health. The next step with the vet is a nasal spray and I'm wondering how that would even work with such a tiny cat. I want her to have the best care but I don't want to drive her nuts at the same time...

Help?
You're right to worry about potential risks of chronic congestion. The only advice I have for difficult medication regiments is to follow it up with a reward the cat loves, so the cat looks forward to the medication anyway. Food motivated? Great, give her something tasty. Attention motivated? Figure out the kind of attention she loves the most and do that afterward. Every cat has a weakness, and it's your job to find hers so you can exploit it.

Also, ongoing steroids and nasal sprays may help with symptoms, but they won't cure the underlying condition. Since you have a very young FIV+ cat, I'd seriously consider doing more diagnostics (if you haven't exhausted all of them already) unless you already know what's causing the inflammation. Lots of things can produce symptoms of sinusitis and many of them can be cured in ways that don't require lifelong medication for a kitten.

You also said your other cat is "wheezy and in perfectly good health." Healthy cats aren't wheezy. Even FIV+ cats aren't wheezy automatically. Did you mean something else?

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

kaworu posted:

Anyway, this morning, and on a coupler other random mornings in the past, she sometimes will wake up and like... *semi* throw up? She makes some gross sounds and just vomits some clear warm liquid once or twice (which is at least easy to clean up) and is then hungry and ready for breakfast... I put this down to the fact that ever since I instituted this diet, she generally always eats her food in one sitting (which I think is good) except occasionally for her afternoon meal. So she eats her evening meal at 8 or 9 and then usually sleeps through the entire night either on my bed or in one of her spots right next to it - but she really does stay in my room for almost the ~5-6 hours or so I sleep every night, *especially* now that she knows there isn't any kibble or leftovers to munch on in the kitchen and won't get fed until I wake up.

So I'm guessing the weird dry-heaving every couple weeks is just her being a cat and having an empty stomach first thing in the morning... And she's probably not used to her stomach EVER feeling this empty. At 12 pounds now, I think she's the lightest she's ever been. Feels good!
This sounds similar to what one of our cats does on an empty stomach. Basically if she goes long enough without eating anything, she throws up a clear liquid that's mostly stomach acid with some mucus. As far as we've been able to tell in her case, it was a sign of indigestion.

The solution for us was to feed her more frequently, which isn't very convenient, but it apparently makes her more comfortable.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Len posted:

The face clawing is recent only in the last few months and I don't understand why. He used to just lay at my feet and swat them when I got too close. But now he demands attention in the middle of the night
If you aren't already, have you considered learning the delicate art of trimming your cat's claws? We trim off the very tips once every 1-2 weeks (use proper claw trimmers, not nail clippers). It can make a huge difference while you're trying to train your cat not to do that.

Rabbit Hill posted:

What prompted this post was this — I have a tiny staircase of four steps in my apartment about 2.5 ft wide, I’m sitting on the top step using my ipad on my lap, Tobias is sitting next to me and cuddling against my side, and I just watched Raphael walk up the stairs and very carefully place his paws as he moved so that he didn’t have to touch either Tobias or me as he passed by us.

What is his deal?! What does this behavior mean?
My guess is one of two things.

First, cats supposedly have a very strong associative memory. Maybe somewhere in his past, he associated rubbing against things with something bad happening. Some of these associations can be pretty random, so it's hard to say if he was ever actually punished for it. He probably doesn't remember exactly what happened, just that he didn't like it.

Second, cats can develop obsessive habits that border on neuroses. Sometimes it's in response to a medical issue (like maybe there's a spot on his skin that's hyper-sensitive and he doesn't like how that feels), but sometimes it seems totally random (like cats who overgroom for behavioral reasons, where there isn't a medical explanation but they apparently just feel better when they yank out their fur). Who knows, maybe at some point he invented the cat equivalent of "the floor is lava" and it just became ingrained as normal life.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

PacoTheThird posted:

I have a question about prescription cat food/medication and whether I have any alternatives.

We have three cats: two females and a male (Dougal). Dougal has been on prescription urinary food (Royal Canin) for several years now after straining to pee on two separate occasions. We haven't found a good way to separate food dishes, so all the cats get the same food.

Recently Dougal went back to the vet because of straining. We thought it was another urinary issue, but turns out this time he was severely constipated. He's fine now (after the vet had to go in manually -- fun for everyone involved, I'm sure) but the vet has put him on a wet food diet for the rest of his life, plus Lactulose twice a day for life. The food is still the Royal Canin stuff, just obviously wet now instead of dry.

My problem is this: all three cats are eating the canned food and they're mowing right through it, costing us an arm and a leg. Any suggestions on how to keep the girls out of Dougal's prescription food, and vice versa? Or is there a cheaper urinary food that we don't know about? Or does it even matter that he stays on the prescription food, so long as he's getting plenty of liquids? I guess I have the same question about the Lactulose. Is there an OTC alternative? I wanna make sure we're not setting him up for more trouble down the line, but money is very tight and he's costing us a small fortune right now.

Thanks, goons. Here's the little orange dude in question:


Things you can do to stop cats from eating the wrong food in a multi-cat household:
  • $0 - Feed cats while you watch them. Accept the fact that you can never trust your cats to eat unsupervised.
  • $0 - Feed cats in separate rooms behind closed doors. Accept the fact that you can never trust your cats to eat out in the open.
  • $$$ - Buy microchip feeders if your cats are microchipped. These are really handy for cats who do better when free-fed, but they are expensive and you do need to wash the inserts often.
Never alter your cat's prescriptions without talking to your vet (or at least a different vet, if you want a second opinion). Urinary issues for male cats in particular are incredibly dangerous. His food definitely matters since he's already had issues before. Don't change his food without talking to a vet!

If you're buying the food in a store, one easy way to save money is to buy it online instead. Multiple sites sell cat food for less than you'd pay in a store, and you can find decent coupons. You need to provide them with your prescription information before you place your order.

Another caveat: make sure your vet knows your other cats are eating the same food. Some prescription diets are not appropriate for normal cats. This isn't usually the case with urinary diets in particular, but it's something for you to be aware of since you have so many cats.

Your vet can point you in the direction of cheaper medication options, too. If you don't trust your current vet, talk to a different one.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

PacoTheThird posted:

And he knows it.

Thank you for the advice, LoreOfSerpents. I think the easiest solution for us is going to be looking into a microchip feeder.

I am considering switching vets, so I may seek a second opinion there as far as Dougal's medication goes, and I can also ask about cheaper food alternatives. Our current vet is great, but they're also way across town (where we used to live) and they're a bit pricey.
You'll need three microchip feeders if you want to ensure he doesn't get into the other cats' food, too. Also, make sure you wash out the dish in between every wet food meal, and never leave wet food out for more than 4 hours.

I've used the SureFeed microchip feeder and it works well. I hate the plastic trays, and it's a huge annoyance with wet food, but the trays are easy to clean. The only problem is the feeders do sometimes get confused about whether the cat is going for food or not, so they might close even if your cat is reaching for some food. If your cats are food-motivated enough not to be scared off by that, then that's not a big deal.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Protocol7 posted:

After cleaning up a hairball off my couch it's time I get serious about hairball control for my cats.

We've tried the gel-style hairball medicine, but they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole, and you're supposed to feed like 2 tablespoons at the start.

Is there a hairball treat that anyone's used before that works well? My cats will eat anything (except the gel hairball medicine), so I think a hairball treat is a great idea.
Which gel hairball medicine have you tried? There are like 50 of them. There are three typical flavors - malt, fish, and chicken. In my experience, "malt" is the most accepted, but cats are cats.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Protocol7 posted:

We've actually tried two brands from PetSmart, one is the GNC Salmon flavored, the other is the Essential Pet fish flavor. I was thinking my cats just don't like the gel stuff, but I guess it could be an issue of flavor too. They love fish flavored canned food though.
The one I've settled on is called CatLax, which we buy from our vet. Whatever you try, I suggest offering them a pea-sized portion first to see if they're interested.

Another thing you can do for your cats is brush them daily. Don't use something like a Furminator, just use a basic metal comb if you can. That made a bigger difference for our cats than the hairball gel, honestly, but one of our cats doesn't tolerate any type of brush we've tried, so we rely on just the gel for her.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Protocol7 posted:

Oh, I brush Binx very frequently. Getting brushes is his favorite. You can rub the brush up against something and he'll come careening out of whatever dark corner he's in and screech at you until you brush him.

I'm worried, especially with my feline health history, that something else could be going on. I'd say I shouldn't be concerned if the vet isn't concerned, but that's exactly how my late Crowley went into kidney failure despite taking him to the vet at least once a week while he was dealing with his urinary troubles... And the vet I last took Binx to was even a different vet, to boot.

Yeah, based on your recent experiences, it's normal to be concerned. Any change in behavior is worrying. Does he groom your other cats (meaning you actually need to be brushing them more, too)? Does he seem to be grooming more than usual (like he's itchy)? Have you tried brushing him multiple times a day? Some cats replenish their coats really quickly, so you can't just get away with occasional brushing.

I don't want to downplay your concerns, but if he's acting normally otherwise, still active, still eating and drinking normally, and still using the litter box normally, there's a good chance there's a non-scary explanation for his hairballs. On the other hand, if his weight is dropping, or he's getting dehydrated, or not eating/drinking as much (or drinking way more than normal), or he's vomiting/throwing up without hairballs... those are all red flags.

X-rays can help identify things like obstructions or some tumors, but if he's using the litterbox normally and eating normally, that wouldn't be my first thought. A good blood test and urinalysis can tell you a lot about organ function if you want the peace of mind.

Finding a good vet can be really hard. Vets have to juggle owner concerns with owner lifestyles, and most of your relationship is going to be how comfortable you are with their approach: do they over-treat, under-treat, or something in the middle? Peace of mind is valuable, but it comes at a cost. A lot of vets won't mention diagnostics like X-rays and blood tests unless there's a serious concern, but they're actually really helpful records for a vet to have over time, especially since animals are so good at hiding issues. You should feel comfortable asking your vet if that information would help identify what's going on - and your vet should be able to explain why it would or wouldn't help.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

mistaya posted:

My roommates cat would pee on any towel left on the floor and it wasn’t any kind of medical issue at all she had just decided towels were fair game for peeing on. If the backpack and floor laundry are frequent targets my main suggestion is to put those things in closets and a hamper and see if your cat still has a problem.

If it is a medical issue cat will pee on the carpet somewhere so you can rule it out.
This raises a really good point - for cats who pee on the same things repeatedly, make sure you use an enzymatic cleaner before tossing it in the washing machine. If you just throw it straight in the washing machine, it won't remove the odor that makes the cat think it's pee territory, and it can even spread the odor to other things washed with it (like towels).

InvisibleMonkey posted:

Syke, we went away for a couple of days and in this past week after we got back she managed to pee on my backpack (on the floor), my bf's jeans (also on the floor), and today on the bed. We took her to the vet because clearly something is going on. They sent us home with a sample-kit and some medicine, it's up to us if we want to give her the medicine this weekend or wait until they get the urine sample. I'm leaning towards waiting to see if she does it again since we don't know if it's an infection yet, we cleaned her box and replaced the litter just in case she just thinks it's too smelly. Anything else I should be looking out for?

If it's not an infection it might be stress-related from either our trip, that time she escaped the backyard last week, or who knows what.Thinking of getting some Feliway to have on hand.
I totally missed this but it sounds like you only have one litter box. Have you tried adding another? I know it's inconvenient for a small space, but a lot of cats prefer to pee in different places than they poop. Maybe even try a different litter in the second box to see if she's developed an aversion to the silica?

Things it sounds like you already do: make sure you scoop litter at least once a day, even with only one cat. And obviously clean any messes with an enzymatic cleaner.

Things to watch for: any changes in eating/drinking and litter box visit habits. Is she drinking more than usual? Less? Is she going to the litter box more often now? Is she squatting down but not producing any urine? Cats with bladder infections tend to display changes in litter box visits. Don't try to scare her or chastise her for peeing somewhere else if you catch her in the act. Punishing a cat who's already uncomfortable can just stress her out more and make the problem worse.

If you were given painkillers, those can be really important for helping a cat through urinary discomfort even if it's not an infection (cats seem to be able to magically inflame their bladders when they feel stressed). Personally, the only reason I'd wait before giving the medication is if you have an antibiotic. In that case, waiting can help if they're going to do a urine culture to make sure the antibiotic is appropriate for that type of bacteria, or if it's a heavy-duty antibiotic that might upset her GI tract, you might want to wait for a definite diagnosis.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

InvisibleMonkey posted:

That last bit was really helpful, thanks! It's a painkiller and the vet said that the treatment for a regular bladder-infection would basically be that plus wet food with water added. I think we'll give it to her tomorrow.
Just to cover the bases, watch out for any negative reactions to any new medication and make sure to call your vet if you notice anything weird! Some cats get really spaced out on certain painkillers, to the point where they don't actually relax, they just kind of stare into the void and never nap. Some medicines are also more effective on an empty stomach while others go easier with food, so ask your vet for suggestions or do some research if you feel like it. Because you didn't already have enough to worry about...

InvisibleMonkey posted:

It's hard to tell what she's doing in there except for digging noises because it's a covered box, nothing new though. No sounds of straining or discomfort.
We really don't have the space for a second litter-box so we're just super diligent about keeping it clean and fresh, it's very roomy and the cleanest box ever.
One thing, you won't necessarily hear your cat straining. You might just notice that she's going to the litter box a lot but you don't hear her produce anything. Sometimes cats will jump out of the box after a few seconds, only to go right back in a minute or two later, and it becomes this awful cycle where you know your cat isn't producing any waste but they're just so desperate to do something.

Good luck!

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

gradenko_2000 posted:

This weekend, we bought a CatH2O water fountain for our cats. One of them has already drunk from it at least twice, and that might be because her former guardian already used a similar one before she moved in with us.

Our other cat has never seen such a thing before, and in 24 hours I hadn't seen him drink from it yet. It's possible I just didn't/haven't seen him use it, but I was concerned enough that last night I set out his regular water dish because I was worried he might get dehydrated. Of course, I didn't see him drink from the water dish either.

Is that a thing to be concerned about? It seems like figuring out how to drink from a water fountain is simple enough for a cat, but I might as well ask if there's anything in particular I should do.
Never remove the current accepted water supply while introducing a new one. It's very possible that you'll want to keep both out forever anyway. Some cats randomly decide one water source is better than another. Especially true for water fountains if you wait too long to clean them.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Fabulousity posted:

So I just saw some small rice-sized worm like things in the fur around one of my cat's butthole as he was walking by on a table. They seemed to be stretchy but I'm not sure if they were moving on their own or just reacting to the moving fur. Some Googling suggests that these are likely tapeworm segments. While these probably don't pose an immediate health threat to the cat it is super gross. A vet visit is scheduled for Wednesday. In the meantime has anyone dealt with these before? some questions I wasn't able to find clear answers for:

1. Do I need to worry about cleaning everything like an OCD freak to prevent reinfection? I'm not clear on whether or not ingesting the straight eggs will infect the cat or if the worm has to complete part of its lifecycle in a flea first. If the latter part then we don't have to worry about eggs around the house once the initial infection is cleared out? But then...
2. These are indoor cats that are not currently on any flea treatment regimen. As far as I can tell we don't have any fleas but we do live at ground level in a neighborhood with at least one outdoor/feral cat around and multiple dog owners. Does this mean we need to get a flea treatment plan going regardless?
3. Can humans get infected? One site said only a specific species of feline tapeworm can be transmitted to humans but that point wasn't elaborated on.

Butt worms are proof that if there is a god he hates us all.
Good news! Tapeworms are one of the easiest parasites to get rid of, at least for the most common type. That tapeworm's egg must be ingested by a flea to start its lifecycle. You don't need to worry about meticulously cleaning everything, or about the eggs infecting the cats directly. The flea is a required intermediary host.

Whether you start a flea treatment plan depends on a lot of things. Have you had the cats for a long time (meaning this is definitely a recent infestation that occurred in your living space)? If so, this means a flea definitely made it into your space. Do you leave windows/doors open? Do you see outdoor animals coming up close to investigate your place? How well sealed are your windows/doors? Do you have plants growing near the exterior walls that could help pests get inside? Basically, how rare do you expect this to be?

You should at least get a flea comb and take a look for any flea dirt on your cats.

The type of tapeworm that humans can get from pets is rare, and it's contracted by people who (presumably accidentally) ingest dog/cat feces. It's mostly found around livestock in rural areas. So it's very unlikely that your cat would have that type of tapeworm in the first place, and as long as you don't ingest your cat's feces, your exposure would be limited anyway. You can talk to your vet about which type of tapeworm your cat most likely has.

And if you think this is proof that god hates us, you should see your cat cough up a large roundworm.

Edit: To be clear, the most common tapeworm has a flea as its intermediate host, and the cat is infected by ingesting the flea. The rare tapeworms have large or small prey animals (think deer/sheep vs rabbits/mice) as the intermediate host, and the cat is infected by ingesting that prey animal. The rare tapeworms are also much smaller, so the fact that you're seeing rice-shaped segments being shed automatically makes me think you've got the more common one.

LoreOfSerpents fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 3, 2019

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

InvisibleMonkey posted:

I'm trying to get a pee-sample with a kit (plastic beads, pipette, vial), but is there anything I can do to make her go faster? Ideally before the vet's office closes since I know time is of the essence for sample quality.

She went this morning before I swapped the litter and peed outside the box again too, I've been giving her a spoonful of wet food with extra water to fill her bladder up again but idk if that's going to work. :sigh:

edit: Three spoons of wet food soup and some catnip later, just delivered the freshest cat piss to the vet!

edit 2: No signs of an urinary infection, I plugged in some feliway and I guess I'm moving furniture to make room for a second litter-box.
That's good news on the lack of urinary infection, at least! For the second litter box, you might consider trying a different litter (something that clumps and isn't scented) and an exposed box (not covered). Those can factor into litter box avoidance.

Apologies in advance for the small space challenges. Everyone who says cats are better than dogs for small apartments is lying.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Snowy posted:

Late reply, but yeah that's what we're doing now. What I would love is to find a way to not end up with a poo poo pile in the sink any time someone doesn't happen to pull the door all the way shut or just forgets while in a rush.

That doesn't happen much but the consequences are nasty. I have no idea how this kitten understands that the litterbox is the right place to go, but if the bathroom is available then the sink or tub are preferable dumping grounds. :barf:
I hate to ask this but what do you do to clean it up afterward? It's going to have coated the pipes, so ideally you should thoroughly clean out the pipes themselves, at least down to the traps. :gonk:

It's really awful that he's so young and doing that. I once heard that cats form their preferred litter habits within the first few weeks of life, so if that's true, apparently he learned that making GBS threads on a solid surface was awesome. Have you tried putting a litter box in the bathroom, with just a thin layer of litter so he doesn't sink in? Can you think of any reason why he might not prefer the box (e.g., it has a lid, the litter's too deep, not cleaned often enough, resource contention with other cats, different litter type than he grew up on)?

You might consider attaching contact paper to the countertop and the rim of the tub, to discourage him from jumping up there at all. It'd be inconvenient for you though since you'd have to leave it there for a few weeks and change it out as needed. Or you could habitually plug the drains and leave a thin layer of standing water (which would make you have to clean the sink/bathtub more often to prevent mildew), which might discourage him. Or use a motion-activated deterrent to scare him away (at the risk of teaching him the wrong thing). Or just put something over the sink/tub when you're not using them.

Any deterrent you try might have to be coupled with making a more attractive litterbox option somewhere else, otherwise he might just pick another inappropriate spot in your house as his new favorite.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Snowy posted:

We keep his litter box clean and he uses it all the time just fine.... unless that wonderful sink toilet is available :( don’t know what else we could do to make the box more desirable.
Since he uses the current box, I wouldn't change anything about that one unless you get desperate (since you'd risk making him stop using it), but here are some aspects that can affect box usage:
  • Number of boxes - Adding another litter box is always a good first step (however inconvenient). At a minimum, you usually need one litter box per cat, plus one extra litter box. However, some households need more boxes, since a lot of cats prefer to poop separately from where they pee. We have three cats, and litter problems didn't stop until we reached five litter boxes. It sucks as much as you would expect, but it's better than cleaning up accidents.
  • Cleanliness of boxes - boxes should be scooped at least daily (more often for very fastidious cats), and completely emptied/washed/refilled on whatever schedule your cat demands (try monthly, increase frequency if that's not good enough)
  • Litter depth - Especially relevant for large-bodied cats
  • Box wall height - Some cats like higher walls, some cats like shorter walls
  • Litter type - Clumping/non-clumping, unscented, amount of dust, etc. It's easier to try out different litter types in a new box
  • Privacy - Covered or uncovered box? How isolated is the box? Some cats like having a litter box in an infrequently-accessed part of the house, but some cats hate it.
  • Access path - Anything unpleasant that he has to walk across in order to get into the box, like a mat designed to collect litter?
  • Noise - Placing a box near something loud can be a disaster. Doubly so if it's something HVAC related that might have kicked on while he was pooping at one point.
  • Other cats - No cat should ever have to wait to use the litter box (what a great campaign slogan)
  • Vantage point - Most cats try to avoid ambush situations, especially when pooping. Usually you want litter boxes not to be placed in bottleneck spots. Maybe even try an elevated box, in case he likes having to jump up for some reason.
  • Pheromones - Mixed reports exist on whether pheromone diffusers work, but considering how awful your situation is, I'd consider it anyway. Although be aware that in some studies, cats actually peed on the diffusers...
Basically I'm saying you might have to analyze and experiment with every detail of your litter box situation to come up with a way to make him happy. Because cats.

Incidentally, you can manipulate some of those same points to try to make the bathroom less attractive, and that's what my suggestions were based on. Access path = contact paper, litter type = leaving some water in the basins, noise = motion detection deterrent, etc.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

maou shoujo posted:

How soon after moving is it appropriate to have him neutered? And how much does neutering cost? They say he's up to date on his shots, but neutering is definitely necessary as he's going to be living with another cat someday. He'd be my only cat, but the person who I'm looking at moving in with in a few months has a cat of her own.
Neutering can be done at any time. The vet will usually want to do a checkup and some basic bloodwork first to make sure it's safe for him to go through the procedure.

You should neuter him before he moves in with you if possible. Unneutered male cats like to mark their territory, and if he doesn't go outside at all anymore, that's going to mean spraying your stuff.

The cost of neutering varies by vet practice. Call a vet in your area who's known for doing good work and ask them for their pricing. The procedure itself is usually pretty cheap, but the bloodwork and extra painkillers will add to the cost. Please do your cat a favor and don't opt out of the followup painkillers. Having his balls chopped off will make him sore for a while afterward and painkillers are a nice thing.

maou shoujo posted:

With his original owners he was both an indoor and an outdoor cat, with a cat door to be able to go in and out as he pleased. If I adopt him, he would have to be an indoor-only cat. Is this likely to cause problems for him?
It depends on the cat's personality. Some cats really like going outside and have a hard time adjusting to indoor-only life. Give him lots of indoor enrichment (and vary it often!) and maybe consider harness-training him to take him outside on supervised excursions.

maou shoujo posted:

Is there anything else I need to know as a first-time adopter beyond what's in the OP?
Set aside $100 per pet per month. A cat won't cost you that much while he's young, but around the 10-year mark, you'll start eating into the savings if health issues start popping up.

Don't count on him being able to tolerate another cat. Not all cats are social, and even the ones who are social can be picky about who they tolerate.

InvisibleMonkey posted:

Update on our little piss-monster, we added a second litter-box (an easy decision but not the most practical in a 1 br) and I also used a different litter in that one. So far she's preferring the new box and hasn't peed anywhere else, so I'm guessing she's mostly particular about either doing her business in the bedroom all of the sudden or changed her mind about the kind of litter she tolerates. Will experiment to find out, but I guess it was just 'cats v:shobon:v'
That's good news so far! Hopefully that keeps going in the right direction. Cats. :argh:

Blackchamber posted:

This is what she said is wrong with it:
"(the kitten) was dragging itself and tumbling all over the place. We thought it was hurt. So I went to checked on it and it was a kitten who constantly shake its head and have trouble walking. Very bony, hungry and pitiful. We are trying to nourish it and hopefully it will get better. We don't know if someone hurt it or is born that way."

Any ideas?
This cat needs to go to a vet immediately. It could be a neurological disease or it could have internal injuries. Please try to convince your mom to take it to a vet.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

beep by grandpa posted:

I'm very likely getting my very first cat next week. Have been thinking about it heavily since the beginning of this year after some Life Events both good and bad, but deciding I needed to think about it for a few months before I pulled the trigger since it's such a commitment and to make sure I still wanted to, and for the right reasons. I went to a shelter last weekend just to look at what they had, talked to the staff as much as I could, etc. I've done my research and feel pretty prepared for what to expect the first few weeks all except for one topic: litterboxes... And I'm really not sure where to start. I have the money to blow so I'm not sure if I should go automatic or this weird Breeze Tidy Cat pebble thing the girl at Petsmart was raving about today when I was buying supplies & toys.

I have the money to spend on an auto-litterbox but I don't know if that's bad/not ideal for the cat, which is ofc what I care about first and foremost, and odor next (I can deal with odor for a few minutes when they use it but I want to avoid things that stink up the whole place all day if not cleaned every few hours). So an auto-box would be convenient for me, but I'm also not lazy if autos are generally not very good. In the end it could just comes down to what the cat ends up liking? I was told they sometimes really don't like new ones after they're adopted from a shelter after they got used to the one they had. I've noticed when I talk to friends about cats and first-time ownership no one ever even seems to bring up litterboxes so it might not even be a big deal compared to everything else. So I could just be overthinking it. Is there anywhere in this thread that has a pretty good info dump on it? The first few pages didn't discuss this specifically. I just want my cat to poo poo in peace and security, like all god's creatures deserve.

Some background: I live alone in a 2-bedroom apartment and I'm at work about 9 hours during the day so I'm thinking the absolute youngest I should go with one cat is 2-3 years old so they don't go crazy. I'll be adopting from a shelter. Never had a cat before so I don't want to get 2 right out of the gate but that could be a possibility later if things work out well.
My favorite post on automated litterboxes was this one several pages back:

FuzzySlippers posted:

There are basically 3 types of auto cleaning litter boxes and we've owned them all.

Cat Genie

We've had it for 4-ish years I think and it's been pretty great. Only maintenance has been cleaning the water sensor a few times. It requires absolutely no daily/weekly/monthly upkeep. One of our cats doesn't use it because I think they got scared of the water/noise, but the other 2 use it and one of those pretty much only uses that box. I would only recommend it if you can put it in a laundry room. It needs a water hookup and most of the horror stories you can find online are about hooking it up to a toilet. Doing so is not very stable and bound to fail. When it does you risk a kitty toilet flood. So a lot of houses just aren't going to have a good spot for it and I wouldn't fight against that.

It's quite a bit cheaper than the Litter Robot but you do have to buy the sani solutions cartridges from them. No joke: they have drm in them and nothing else works. You only have to buy them every couple months so it isn't a big deal to me for a litter box you can completely forget about. I know this will bug some people though.

Litter Robot

We bought one in Nov and just bought our second a few weeks ago. They are very expensive and kinda dumb. It's a big litter box that rotates completely vertical to sift. I feel like there's a more clever solution here, but it does work. Since it uses normal litter I think most cats will use it eventually but our old cat has always preferred her cat genie. It takes up a lot of room, but you can place it basically anywhere unlike the Cat Genie.

The litter trap is small enough that with mostly 2 cats using it I have to take it out a bit less than once a week. Unfortunately it often stops sifting and claims to be full long before it actually is so sometimes I have to empty it more frequently.

Still, it's a lazy solution that allowed us to get better coverage for a 3 cat household so that's why we bought another. If you've got the cash and the space for it I think it's a pretty low risk purchase.

Pet Safe / other raking boxes

There are a bunch automatic litter boxes that use a rake to sweep the box whenever the cat leaves. Do not buy. We used one for about a month and it was awful. We knew we needed another box besides the Cat Genie for the kitties and I was reluctant to drop $500 on the robot. It was quickly dubbed 'the poo poo box' because the rake continuously smeared poo poo all over itself and stayed filthy no matter how we cleaned or adjusted it. The crystals also barely help with the smell and don't clump which makes emptying completely awful. This isn't like when you have nicely clumped litter box you need to clean out and dealing with cat poo poo is a little abstracted. The rake just shoves all the cat poo poo into a cat poo poo compartment that is 100% nothing but cat poo poo.

So you need to empty a giant pan of crystals and cat poo poo into a garbage sack once a week or more and it's terrible. When I was doing so one week I hadn't noticed Boo had been playing with the garbage sack and so when I dumped in the crystals they broke the bag went onto the floor. When I finished cleaning that hellscape up the box went into the garbage and I ordered a Litter Robot.

edit: Though the kitties did love the poo poo box. When it was around they wouldn't use any other box (normal or cat genie). We both despaired watching the kitties walk right by other boxes to go dirty up the poo poo box knowing we'd have to clean it sooner.
All that said, I don't use an automated litterbox personally because I believe the most important quality of a litterbox is how easy it is to clean. Your pet is going to poo poo and piss in your house. The top priority is being able to clean it up.

That Tidy Cats Breeze thing looks like a disaster to me because some cats like to pee standing up, spraying backwards, even if they aren't males marking their territory, and some cats will smear diarrhea on the box walls if they aren't feeling well. I hate litterboxes that have multiple parts or seams because they're hard to clean.

Anything with rounded corners is annoying to scoop. Don't bother with litter liner bags because it's just another thing for the cat to destroy.

The smell is controlled by the type of litter you use, but that doesn't matter if it's a litter your cat won't tolerate (or if your cat doesn't bury its poo poo, which some don't). Just try litters that don't offend you. Your cat is going to track the litter all over your apartment, which will be easier if it's a lightweight litter, so if you choose a lighter litter, be prepared to vacuum more. Evaluate how awful it will be for you to step on any litter you select. Wood pellets sound like a great idea until you step on one in the middle of the night. Scented litters annoy the hell out of me but some people love them. Some litters produce more dust (and if you get a black cat, you'll laugh at those "99% dust free" marketing lies). Some litters are a little controversial (e.g., how safe is clay dust, how safe is corn). There's a lot of personal preference/risk tolerance that goes into it.

You're supposed to fully clean a litter box at least monthly, as in dump out the litter and wash the box itself. Some people say you should do this weekly but ahahaha no. This is something people don't talk about, especially around apartment dwellers. Where are you going to take that thing to wash it? You're going to take it to your bathtub, that's where.

I disagree with people who say you should get 2. If you fall in love with a bonded pair, or you get a cat and it seems miserable on its own, then sure, knock yourself out. But as a default choice, don't have people be outnumbered by animals in your home. You'll need extra litter boxes, extra dishes, extra everything. It also makes things potentially harder if your situation changes later on. Like if you end up marrying someone who's allergic to cats, it's a lot easier to rehome one cat than two bonded cats.

Basically this:

Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:

Alternately, ask if the rescue/shelter has one that's not great with other cats so the animal gets its own space and you don't have to worry about if the cat is lonely or needs a playmate.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

TMMadman posted:

I can't take this anymore and I don't know what to do.

A bit less than two weeks ago, one of my three cats pissed on my bed, this has happened before and I just use Nature's Miracle on the spot and bedding, wash the bedding (although sometimes I just toss the stuff), flip the mattress and it doesn't happen again for a while.

But this time, a day or two later, one of them did it again, this time also also getting the pillows. However, since I couldn't just flip the mattress, I left the bed stripped for a week or so while occasionally spraying it with Nature's Miracle and Febreeze while I 'slept' on my laz-e-boy. There were no incidents* during this week and nobody pissed on the bed.

Yesterday, I finally decided to put a brand new sheet on the bed with new pillows and sleep in my bed at night (although the comforter had been pissed on before, it has been washed and I've been using it for the past week). I thought about stripping the bed before I left for work, but I was running late and left it on. Sure enough, when I got home, I checked the bed and found one of the cats pissed on it again. Right on the pillow and spot where I keep my head and not on the spot the comforter had been pissed on. Basically the same spot that had been pissed on before I stripped the bed.

The litter boxes aren't perfect right now, but they aren't the worst either. I'm pretty sure I know which cat it doing it because one cat, Oscar, generally like to sleep close to that area and I don't think he'd piss there (plus, when he does go outside of the litter box, it's right in front of the litter box) and I've never seen the girl cat, D.D., go outside of the litter box regardless of how dirty they were. So I'm pretty sure that it's L.T., who used to piss on clothes/soft items when he was a young cat and before I stopped keeping that stuff in the open. And I can only come to the conclusion that this is some kind of behavioral issue and not due to the litter or urinary issues. After all, if it was litter/urinary related, then whey didn't he piss on the bed during the week when it didn't have bedding on it? I haven't found any other places that have been pissed on outside of the litter box, so again it leads me to believe it's a behavioral issue.

And although I would never act on the feelings, I feel physically violent towards the cat I suspect is responsible right now. I ultimately just don't know what to do right now because quite honestly, I'm kind of tired of having cats (or pets in general right now). However, I also don't feel like I can give them away or put them up for adoption because I took the responsibility for the cats when I found them as kittens behind the pizza place I worked at like 10 years ago. And since they are like 10 years old, they wouldn't likely be adopted anyway (maybe the fluffy one who is very likely the problem because he's cute). Plus, the cat I suspect is the culprit is super cute and soft and fluffy and pretty fun to pet most of the time.

But I just can't deal with having my bed pissed on anymore. I also want to get a new mattress, but I can't do it now because I fear a cat will immediately piss on it. I feel like I'm at my wits end here because right now I feel like the cats (all of them combined) are generally making me unhappy and stressed out rather than the other way around.

I guess I'm ultimately just bitching here, but does anyone have any suggestions? Or maybe want to tell me I'm not a monster for thinking about getting rid of all my cats by having them put down despite not actually being sick/old.

edit - *actually there was one incident in that I was folding and leaving the comforter on the recliner and one day I found that the comforter had been pissed on, but it didn't affect the recliner.
I remember your pizza cat updates from years ago. You did an awesome thing back then, and it's great that you still feel so responsible for them. I love that you still have them.

Resenting them doesn't make you a monster. What a lot of people don't recognize about cats (especially when cats are young and healthy) is that they're signing up for approximately 20 years of living with toddlers who never grow up. That decision you made to get an adorable kitten when you were 25? Yeah, you're still going to be living with it when you're 43, but now it's having bouts of incontinence and dementia.

The 10-year mark is a major turning point for a lot of cats where they start having mystery problems, and it gets hugely overwhelming. Having three cats who all hit 10 years at the same time is a loving nightmare. I also have three senior cats, and I love them, but I can't tell you how excited I am about what life will be like when I don't have them anymore.

Anyway, I just want you to know that I'm coming from a similar place that you find yourself now. And I'm telling you that euthanizing them is the wrong answer.

If you keep three cats, you have to make lifestyle changes for them, especially as they get older. My three didn't stop having "accidents" until they had access to five litter boxes. Five! A variety of open and covered boxes, because there are seriously days when they prefer different types. And I scoop all of those at least once a day. So fixing the litter box situation is the most obvious change you can make. When you have three cats, that part is non-negotiable. You have to add more boxes when there are accidents, and you have to scoop reliably. I have a reminder on my phone that annoys me every day asking me if I scooped the boxes. It's important.

You also need to know which cat is having problems, because peeing outside the box is a classic sign of urinary tract issues like bladder infections or urinary crystals. Those can be incredibly painful for cats. When they're in pain, they tend to pee in "safe places" like on bedding. If you can't be home enough to see their behavior, and you can't have someone else there on your behalf, then you need a nanny cam. The alternative is you need to take all three to the vet and do full bloodwork, urinalysis, Xrays, and urine cultures on all of them, just to rule out the more common medical possibilities.

Vet involvement is important even though you're trying to tell yourself it's behavioral. Don't assume it's behavioral until you rule out everything else. Your cats are senior. They're right at the point where you'll start seeing senior cat problems. 9 times out of 10, either a cat pees somewhere because that thing smells like a litter box, or it pees somewhere because it associates the litter box with bad things (like being in pain, or being ambushed) and is avoiding the box. Your cats are old enough that it's very likely a medical issue.

If you can't commit to 1) addressing their litter box needs, and 2) ruling out medical issues, then you're left with only one option. Surrendering them. There are excellent animal shelters that will give them good homes, and some even exclusively use foster homes until permanent homes are found. If you're willing to do the research, I'm sure you can find a local animal shelter that would be able to take three senior cats.

My life would be simpler if I got rid of my three cats. But I made a commitment to them when they were young and healthy, and now I understand that means I signed up for a few really lovely years at the end. As long as they're acting happy about being alive, I will treat them like the geriatric creatures they are, spoil them rotten, and wait for them to tell me when they're ready to go.

Your cats deserve that, too. If you can't give them that anymore for the sake of your own sanity, then you need to give them that chance with someone else.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Deteriorata posted:

Get a cheap tarp and throw it over your bed when you're gone, then. Or cover it with something spiky or crinkly that the cats hate to step on.

Remember that they're not doing it deliberately just to make you mad, they're cats. They have brains the size of a walnut. You're going to have to work at a behavioral level to influence them.
A tarp is a good idea. All cat owners should either do this or wrap the mattress with one of those waterproof covers, like for children who wet the bed. Then you only have to wash the bedding and wipe down the cover when something goes wrong (and it will go wrong).

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

TMMadman posted:

Just as a note: I am not going to put down all of my cats just because one of them is pissing on the bed, but I'm certainly going to threaten them with it even though they don't understand.

Also, Serpents, I have 5 litter boxes and while I don't scoop every day, I do scoop enough. Plus, I have some depression issues which has led to longer periods of not scooping and the cats will still use the litter boxes, so I know they aren't particular about having a pristine litter box. And as I said, I know Oscar will go directly in front of a litter box if he goes outside of it, whether it's too dirty or the few times I've suspected he's had a UTI. And I've never ever seen D.D. go outside of a litter box even when I know they were were really dirty. And while I'm obviously not around all the time, my place is small enough that it would be pretty hard to miss any incidents. And outside of this bed pissing or Oscar going right in front of a box, there just aren't any accidents.

I actually thought the pisser was Smoke, the almost 20 year old cat that I had to put down sometime last year because there hadn't been any piss since that point, but since this happened I'm like 95% sure it's L.T. who is doing the pissing even though I've never caught him in the act. But as I said, I know that he used to go on clothes when he was a couple years old because I had caught him doing it. I don't believe those times were because the litter was dirty, but simply because the clothes were there and he was the low man on the totem pole at the time. Plus he is the 'sneakiest' of the cats in terms of litter box use, so I rarely see/hear him going while I often catch Oscar/D.D.

It's possible that this is a UTI or crystals and I've seriously thought about it, but none of the cats are exhibiting any other normal symptoms of a UTI, although again I'm obviously not around 24/7. And this will sound weird, but the few times I've suspected Oscar had a UTI because he was going in front of the litter box a few days in a row, I feel like the urine smelled slightly different, like a slightly sweeter smell or something.

I probably will have to just use a tarp or strip the bedding every day, even though the cats like to sleep on the bed with the bedding when it's not pissed on. It was kind of funny because the cats acted all weird about jumping up on the bed when it was stripped unless I was actively petting them at the time.

edit - or I was thinking about getting a litter box and then throwing a bunch of old used undershirts into it and hoping that does the trick to keep a cat from pissing on my bed.
Are you talking to someone about your depression issues? If not, please fix that first! Taking care of elderly/sick family members is incredibly taxing on their caretakers, mentally, and I'd argue the same is true of elderly pets. You're their caretaker, and it's a draining job some days.

Ultimately, you've lived with these cats for years, so you should know their behaviors and quirks. My advice is the same - try to improve the litter box situation and follow up with a vet - but if you really want to say it's behavioral, you should know that's the hardest thing to fix. It's a lot easier to resolve peeing issues when they're caused by a medical condition that gets controlled by medication.

There are only two ways you can influence behavioral peeing: make them not like peeing in the wrong place anymore (e.g., tarp, Ssscat, etc.), and make them prefer peeing in the right place again. Both of those are really open-ended and can require a lot of trial and error. Fair warning, I wouldn't recommend putting clothes in a litter box, because then you're encouraging the association between fabric and peeing, which might backfire horribly.

If your goal is to make them prefer peeing in the right place again, you have to work on making the litter boxes more attractive, and make the bed less like a litter box (Nature's Miracle probably won't cut it unless you really soak the thing, considering how long this has been going on, and Febreeze won't do poo poo). Simultaneously.

Joburg posted:

My cat Buffy used to have bouts of peeing on soft things. Sometimes it was due to a UTI and sometimes not. The vet put her on buprenophine during her last UTI and that seemed to reduce her arthritis pain so we kept her on that. Magically she didn’t have accidents again. The vet thought that maybe the arthritis or bladder sensitivity led to the peeing issue. Maybe see if you can try a course of pain meds after you get him checked for a UTI.

Also Anti Icky Poo is superior to Nature’s Miracle.
Painkillers are the ultimate secret weapon for urinary problems. It's like a cat's response to any tiny cramp or twinge is to pee somewhere soft.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

floofyscorp posted:

One of my cats has started doing tiny pukes. She seems generally well(possibly more sluggish than usual, but they both are and I put it down to the warm weather) but in the last few days I've been finding teeny lil puddles of what I assume are puke in spots she frequents - on the towel I left folded up on the table that was her favourite place to lounge, on the clothes box she likes sitting on in the morning while I'm trying to get dressed, once on the floor, and on her favourite perch on the cat tree. They're really tiny coin-sized puddles of goop and a lil bit of hair - it looks like mostly just saliva. Is this something to be concerned about, or just cat being cat?
If this is new, I'd recommend a vet checkup just in case. Basic hairballs can cause this, but so can roundworms, indigestion, etc.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

hooah posted:

How can we get a cat to stop scratching the carpet? There are several other options (scratching posts, horizontal scratchers, cat tree), but when we try to encourage him to use one of those, he doesn't like it. Perhaps we're encouraging wrong? Or what else can we try?
Possible solutions:
  • More scratchers (assuming you haven't yet found his One True Love for scratching, try taller/longer scratchers of various materials)
  • Barriers over the preferred carpet spots (think sacrificial rugs/throw pillows)
  • Trim his claws once every 1-2 weeks so even if he keeps scratching at the carpet, it isn't as damaging

Fleta Mcgurn posted:

Okay, so my actual question is: since Luna actually HATES the kitten and hisses at her every time she sees her, how can I better socialize them*, and how much of her angst is due to being ill from tapeworm? Also, what is the statute of limitation on murder in Catalunya?
I just have to say this post is hilarious and I love your willingness to put up with all that.

The shelter probably did de-worm the cats -- for roundworms. Preventative tapeworm treatments aren't routinely done at shelters. Which is fine since common flea-sourced tapeworms aren't transmitted between cats. They require a flea host. Don't kill yourself trying to sanitize everything.

You already know the tricks for socializing cats, but I doubt Luna's behavior is due to the tapeworm. Tapeworms aren't known to cause noticeable discomfort to most cats. You might just be stuck with an old lady cat who doesn't want to tolerate any poo poo from the kitten. Just try to make their time together as pleasant and also as voluntary as possible.

You probably already know this, but register both of them under your name with whichever local government office handles pet registrations. That way, if the crazy lady comes back, they're legally registered as your property.

[ Edit: Since Aleta is having digestive issues, maybe talk to your vet about testing a stool sample for parasites if you haven't already. It might just be the angle of the photo but I'm a little suspicious she has a potbelly, which could indicate a parasitic infection from something other than a tapeworm. ]

LoreOfSerpents fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 2, 2019

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

rear end posted:

Ohh boy.

2 weeks ago I noticed some stringy wormy stuff in my cat's poop, so I took him to some random vet and apparently he gave him a horse's dose of albendazole or something, because he kept puking his guts out for like 5 days straight after getting his dose. He also kept shooting him up with a shitton of antibiotics. I took him to another vet and he gave him some anti-inflammatory shots and anti-emetics, and thankfully he stopped puking but he's been horribly lethargic and I don't think he's eating at all. I'm giving him ORS every hour and according to the vet I should just keep filling him up with ORS. He hasn't pooped since then, either, but that could be because he kept throwing up all of his food, anyway.

So since the two sole vets serving this dumpy town are apparently enormous morons, I feel like I have to resort to Internet, DVM for this poo poo. He's not even bothering with wet food at all, and I'm pretty sure he needs something other than salty water. Is there anything else I can feed him via a syringe? Because he's refusing all forms of food.

effika posted:

Not a vet, but we've had to make a slurry of wet food and water and syringe feed our cat in the past.

May be worth seeing how hard it is to get to the next town over for another vet.
Seconding this, how hard would it be to go somewhere else for a vet? If you're in the middle of nowhere, do you have a veterinary university near you? Those places are awesome for weird emergency care like this, they have a full staff of specialists and tons of equipment.

Cats can get really, really sick after only a couple of days of not eating. It's a vicious cycle because not eating can make them nauseous, and nausea makes them not want to eat, so before you know it, your cat has lost a quarter of its weight and is trying to die on you.

Don't screw around with appetite loss in cats.

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

rear end posted:

Haha oh no that's not something that's available in this country. Unfortunately going out of town is going to be incredibly difficult. My original, trustworthy vet is in another country and I can't get my cat across borders without doing the import/export dance and I need a rabies test result sheet and some more extra bullshit bureaucracy.

Do I throw some wet food with some water in a blender? I'll try to see if I can make him eat by shoving the food in his face with my hand for now, but I don't think he'll eat.
So, full disclaimer, I'm not a vet and I really think you should bend over backwards to try to get to a good vet. Because if your cat hasn't been eating for days, he might need to be hospitalized. He might also need a feeding tube if he's gone that long without eating.

The medications that are used for cats in this condition where I live have potentially counterproductive side effects, which makes it difficult to treat at home. The cocktail my vet prescribed for my cat included anti-nausea meds, appetite stimulants, and painkillers. A lot of those can actually cause nausea, especially when given on an empty stomach, and it was a huge battle to get it under control.

Out of desperation, you can try other foods temporarily, like very plain chicken-flavored baby food for very young infants (the kind that's liquid with no seasoning/additives) but be aware that new smells can make the cat more nauseous and more food averse. Force-feeding your cat is also likely to make him associate you and food with unpleasant things. Use a hand-feeding syringe if you need to do that. Vets and pet stores sell them here in the US, they're used on everything from birds to dogs.

Pet supply stores sell broth and treats that aren't meant for basic nutrition but may kickstart your cat's appetite. They may also sell cat grass or catnip, which some cats like to eat when they feel nauseous and it might have a slight appetite stimulating effect. Don't do this with random outside grass that might've been exposed to chemicals.

When our cat went anorexic, we bought every type of food we could find at the pet supply store (everything that didn't have restricted ingredient proteins anyway) and just started going through all of them. Every texture, every flavor. We'd offer a tiny amount, see if there's any interest, take it away immediately if not, repeat half an hour later with a different food. We wasted a ton of food and more often than not, she just wanted to gag whenever she smelled the new food.

Fancy Feast is usually recommended as a last-ditch effort, but our cat wouldn't eat that. What she did eat? Purina Pro-Plan chicken flavor kibble. It's mostly corn. Apparently that was worth living for.

I really hope some of that helps you, because this situation sucks and you desperately need a vet.

explosivo posted:

Any tips on how to get a cat to eat medicine in powder form from a capsule? We planned on mixing it into her wet food but after one or two times she smells it now I guess and won't eat the food. I'm thinking about getting some of those pill pockets but I'm not sure if those work with the contents of a capsule.
You mean in gel capsules? The secret for me is using small gel caps. No bigger than a size 2 if you're in the US. Vets often sell them in packages. Try not to get too much powder on the outside of the capsule as you fill it, because a lot of those powders are bitter as poo poo. If your cat starts foaming at the mouth after you pill it, you know you screwed up.

You can buy one of those pill plunger things which allows you to release the capsule at the back of the cat's throat, but you can free-hand it with a small capsule if you have steady aim. Follow it up with a small syringe plunger full of room-temperature water to help it go down. Praise the hell out of the cat afterward or feed it or whatever it takes to make the cat feel like medicine time is the best time.

I've never had luck with pill pockets on cats, so maybe someone else has better tips there.

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LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Squashy Nipples posted:

What's the thread opinion on the Purina Tidy Cat Breeze litter system?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001411SK0/

I just got it on a the recommendation of a friend, going to give it a try. My cat is a heavy pisser, so the Pretty Litter just didn't work out.
Disclaimer: I am resigned to my fate of at-least-once-daily poo poo-scooping for my cats' remaining lifespans and no longer seek ways to make it more tolerable. My cats are also stupid and will take any opportunity to try to kill themselves. My life revolves around this simple truth.

I have two requirements for litter solutions:
1. The litter box must be easy to scoop and clean thoroughly.
2. The litter material must be (reasonably) safe for cats.

The Breeze litter system fails both. The box is the wrong shape/size/construction to easily clean, and the litter material is not safe for cats if they consume it (as suggested by the first Amazon review, featuring an Xray of their cat having ingested the pellets).

If you don't care about it taking forever to thoroughly sanitize the thing, and you're sure that your cat will never develop a relentless appetite for eating forbidden materials, then I say knock yourself out. Report back with your findings.

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