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Neorxenawang posted:This makes it seem like there's a whole lot less desert in Athas than I thought. Or at least a whole lot more non-desert. It's also sort of surprising how many of the cities with write-ups basically say "stuff's pretty OK here." A lot of that is bullshit form the Revised Boxset, which generally sucked. I should scan the maps from the book Valley of Dust and Fire, which details the Dragon's city of Ur Draxa in the middle of the fuckin' Silt Sea.
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Sep 6, 2009 13:28
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Neorxenawang posted:This makes it seem like there's a whole lot less desert in Athas than I thought. Or at least a whole lot more non-desert. It's also sort of surprising how many of the cities with write-ups basically say "stuff's pretty OK here." As others have said, most of this stuff is from the revised set, and that map more than quadrupled the size of the setting. For reference, the original map covered the area from the Dragon's Crown Mountains in the North West to the Bleak Tower in the South East. And while the second box did make the world a little more green, they didn't make it much more hospitable. That savanna is ruled over by a militant Thri Kreen empire. The Last Sea is ruled by disembodied and mad psychic overlords. Those little forests all have something terrible (un)living in them. Also, many of those towns are relatively pleasant places to live compared to the City States, but that freedom comes at a great loss of security. They're under constant threat from all sorts of monsters and natural disasters.
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Sep 6, 2009 18:16
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I honestly don't understand all of the hate that the revised box gets. Say what you will about the Prism Pentad, and the changes it brought to the setting, but the revised box did a lot to expand the world and make it more interesting then "go to desert, get eaten". Like Peter Welker said, just because the "nice" places were "better" then the city-states doesn't mean they weren't their own form of hell. The whole point was that no matter how nice a place seemed, the there was truly no safe place in the world (barring maybe New Kurn).
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Sep 6, 2009 18:40
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It should also be noted that the western string of jungles are usually full of halflings. The bad ones eat everyone, but the good ones just eat non-halflings. Past that, it's all Thri-Kreen and associated cousin races who want to eat all mammals. Most stable areas are also usually police states ruled by insane warlords. The only difference from the ones in the Tablelands are that some of these warlords aren't obsessed with the eradication of all life for their own personal power. Everyone usually has a total disregard for life as well which makes life interesting. Every time there's an instance of something other than a desert, it's the worst iteration of it ever. It's usually far from being pleasant and almost always barely habitable. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 6, 2009 |
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Sep 6, 2009 18:56
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ManMythLegend posted:I honestly don't understand all of the hate that the revised box gets. Say what you will about the Prism Pentad, and the changes it brought to the setting, but the revised box did a lot to expand the world and make it more interesting then "go to desert, get eaten". Also, thanks to the Prism Pentad, they were able to make the City States more than just copy-paste Sorcerer King and his Templar Lackeys.
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Sep 6, 2009 20:21
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I'm curious if they're going to keep the link between Kalidnay and Ravenloft.
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Sep 6, 2009 23:11
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Al Baron posted:I'm curious if they're going to keep the link between Kalidnay and Ravenloft. Please elaborate. I don't remember anything about that.
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Sep 6, 2009 23:20
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PeterWeller posted:Please elaborate. I don't remember anything about that. I found this old Q&A where the first question is all about this.
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Sep 6, 2009 23:50
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If Kalidnay gets a mention anywhere, it'll probably just be a nudge-nudge, wink-wink sort of thing. It'd be too much effort to come up with a totally new writeup for it, and narrow their options if they do ever publish a 4E Ravenloft book.
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Sep 7, 2009 01:28
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What I'd really like is if they went back to the "Boxed Set" format for Dark Sun. Throw in a cloth map, maybe a Urikite ceramic coin, handouts, all sorts of goodies beyond just the book.
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Sep 7, 2009 01:35
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Apparently those boxed sets were huge money losers for TSR. They kept the price point at twenty to thirty bucks, but would put fifty bucks worth of poo poo in the box. That was awesome for us, but sucked for them. So chances are we'll never see a campaign box from WotC, and in the slim chance we do, it will cost a ton of money. By the way, the cloth map from the second box is still my favorite bit of D&D swag ever. I framed that poo poo.
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Sep 7, 2009 01:57
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PeterWeller posted:Apparently those boxed sets were huge money losers for TSR. They kept the price point at twenty to thirty bucks, but would put fifty bucks worth of poo poo in the box. That was awesome for us, but sucked for them. So chances are we'll never see a campaign box from WotC, and in the slim chance we do, it will cost a ton of money. 1) Release the book for $35 or whatever. 2) Release the box set, with interesting but non-essential stuff (map, handouts, fake money, a vial of residuum) for $50. You cannot tell me a grip full of trinkets and doodads like a lovely printed map and some sand in a jar can cost more than $15 per unit.
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Sep 7, 2009 02:02
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You really think WotC would stuff a forty dollar book in a box with a bunch of cool trinkets and only charge you fifty bucks? You're loving nuts, man. If a fake leather cover and gilded page edges led them to double the price, adding a bunch of swag and stuffing it all in a nice box will also cost a bunch extra. Hell, the Dungeon Crawl Classics boxed set cost fifty bucks, and it was just some cheap books and maps. Also, book stores apparently don't like those boxed sets because they eat up too much shelf space. I'd also love to get me some more sweet DS swag, but face it, we're getting a Campaign Guide, a Players' Guide, and an adventure. And that's it.
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Sep 7, 2009 09:16
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Does anybody know what the story behind this map of Athas is: I had never seen it until I got back into D&D with 4E, but everything I've found said that it was released in 1998 so it was around for AD&D. Where did it come from? Was it something vaguely official like an art book or is it just some fan wank?
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Sep 7, 2009 20:29
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I think I saw it somewhere before, but I don't remember where. I'm pretty sure it's not an official map, though. It sounds like it dates from after the line was killed.
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Sep 7, 2009 20:41
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Bill Slavicsek titled his latest column, "Ah, Athas, I remember you well," and then went on to say nothing about the DS 4e revisions. Thanks a lot, jerk.
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Sep 8, 2009 06:40
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ManMythLegend posted:Does anybody know what the story behind this map of Athas is: Its a fan work. Someone wrapped the official and fan maps around a globe. You can make out the dead lands in the south (black), the kreen empire in the green west, and a lot of fan-made lands to the east.
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Sep 9, 2009 02:04
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ritorix posted:Its a fan work. Someone wrapped the official and fan maps around a globe. You can make out the dead lands in the south (black), the kreen empire in the green west, and a lot of fan-made lands to the east. If that's the case I don't feel so bad in not liking it. I was kind of worried that it was legit since it meant that there were a lot of non-Dark Sun-y on Athas. Also the Sea of Silt being that tiny really bugs the crap out of me.
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Sep 9, 2009 03:14
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I'm pretty sure that all the oceans are supposed to be silt. I think those are supposed to be mudflats around the blue parts. I agree with you, though. That map has too much blue and green on it for me. Also, do you guys think it would ultimately crap on Dark Sun's flavor by adding religions for the Divine classes? Not gods. Athas doesn't have gods (anymore?). But I wonder if they might try to follow Eberron's route and include religions that work with or without the explicit existence of gods. I think if they're done properly, Dark Sun could have religious organizations that don't upset the setting's vibe.
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Sep 9, 2009 03:25
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I can't loving wait for 4th edition Dark Sun. Oh god, I'm just so excited...so excited.
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Sep 9, 2009 03:39
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PeterWeller posted:Also, do you guys think it would ultimately crap on Dark Sun's flavor by adding religions for the Divine classes? Not gods. Athas doesn't have gods (anymore?). But I wonder if they might try to follow Eberron's route and include religions that work with or without the explicit existence of gods. I think if they're done properly, Dark Sun could have religious organizations that don't upset the setting's vibe. There were already a couple kicking around before they killed the setting. I think there was one in Raam that worishipped Dregoth, not knowing of course that he was a horrible undead monster. There's also mention of some dwarven god that still has devout followers. (Let me see if I can dig it his name.) There may be more, but I don't remember any if there are. Edit: I found it in the adventure Mystery of the Ancients in the revised box. quote:Natural disasters aside, other changes happening in the world have inspired panic of other sorts. For example, news of the Dragon’s death was met with skepticism and then elation by Tyr’s citizens, resulting in a minor riot in the Merchant’s District. The riot started when five dwarf herders and their half-giant companion decided that the return of Durgonis was imminent. Though the dwarf god Durgonis has few followers in modernday Athas, those who keep his faith are fervently devoted. Unfortunately, his return is prophesied to occur at the same time that a massive sandstorm buries the world. The dwarves (and their half-giant companion) reacted with fear-induced madness, striking wildly at those around them. ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 9, 2009 |
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Sep 9, 2009 04:01
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Is that the adventure where the players cross over to the forest ridge and explore some ruins? That poo poo was such a horrible intro adventure. I mean "set off to danger forest and explore ancient ruins" is like every third D&D adventure ever. Compare that to the first box's adventure, "A Little Knowledge...". The players start off as slaves, and it gets worse from there. I've used "A Little Knowledge..." followed by "Freedom" as the intro to every Dark Sun campaign I've run. The one-two punch of, "you're slaves; you're free; you're loving slaves again!" is the best way to introduce players to the setting. I'll probably hack them up and use them again when the 4E stuff comes out.
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Sep 9, 2009 04:56
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PeterWeller posted:Is that the adventure where the players cross over to the forest ridge and explore some ruins? That poo poo was such a horrible intro adventure. I mean "set off to danger forest and explore ancient ruins" is like every third D&D adventure ever. Compare that to the first box's adventure, "A Little Knowledge...". The players start off as slaves, and it gets worse from there. Yes it is, and I agree that the adventure is terrible. A Little Knowledge... does rule though, despite the fact that I never got a chance to ever finish it.
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Sep 9, 2009 05:02
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I have just had a glimpse of Dark Sun 4E work in progress. I don't think you guys are going to be happy. 
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Sep 9, 2009 10:15
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Etherwind posted:I have just had a glimpse of Dark Sun 4E work in progress. Would you care to elaborate?
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Sep 9, 2009 10:35
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:Would you care to elaborate? I can't. I shouldn't have been shown it, and I don't want to get my friend in trouble.
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Sep 9, 2009 10:52
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^^^^^^^^All right. I'm willing to accept that a NDA is involved. Okay, so the Dead Lands existed, but did anyone actually adventure there?
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Sep 9, 2009 15:03
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:^^^^^^^^All right. I'm willing to accept that a NDA is involved. Do you mean in the setting, or anyone run their PC's through there? If the former, at a very minimum The Wanderer ducked in there long enough to spot Small Home, the City of 1000 Dead, and the Obisidian Tower. The fact that they never got a chance to release a supplement for the Dead Lands causes me the greatest amount of teeth nashing.
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Sep 9, 2009 15:44
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Etherwind posted:I have just had a glimpse of Dark Sun 4E work in progress. You know what, I'm pragmatic enough to realize that they will probably never meet my expectations for the setting. All I'm hoping for are some nice crunchy bits like classes, races, and feats. I can fill in the rest with all the orginal fluff I've still got laying around.
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Sep 9, 2009 15:45
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I'm not expecting anything more than a handful of feats and backgrounds, a few Epic Paths, and a lot of background fluff. Original Dark Sun was just about a total conversion of AD&D, and there is just no bloody way that they'd do something like that this time through. Races? Maybe the Kreen with a few racial abilities to differentiate the subtypes. I don't think athas.org ever got a working Half-Giant out for 3E; I'd expect a Goliath with the serials filed off. Classes? Clerics are usable out of the gate, they just need elemental benefits to replace the deity-specific ones. I could see Defilers as a new specialization for one or more of the caster classes, or maybe a feat. The rest of the classes function as-is. Paths and Destinies? I'd be surprised if there aren't Elemental Archon, Avangion and Dragon epic destinies. Really surprised. Gladiator, as someone else noted, would probably work as a path for martial types.
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Sep 9, 2009 16:28
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There already is a Gladiator PP in one of the Dragon issues, so it seems pretty likely.
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Sep 9, 2009 16:31
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Etherwind posted:I can't. I shouldn't have been shown it, and I don't want to get my friend in trouble. Then you should have kept your god drat trap shut to begin with, jerk.
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Sep 9, 2009 16:35
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I wanted to share my dismay, gently caress you.
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Sep 9, 2009 17:05
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Etherwind posted:I wanted to share my dismay, gently caress you. You must also delight in telling children there is no Santa Claus.
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Sep 9, 2009 17:22
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BAWRLIN posted:Then you should have kept your god drat trap shut to begin with, jerk. Seriously, share or don't, you can't halfass us on DARK SUN. 
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Sep 9, 2009 17:31
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Etherwind posted:I have just had a glimpse of Dark Sun 4E work in progress. Funny, because I too got a glimpse of Dark Sun recently and I think everyone will be extremely pleased.
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Sep 9, 2009 18:34
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Did you, ah, read the bits about Druids and high-level arcane casters? (God this is an awkward way to talk around things.)
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Sep 9, 2009 18:42
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Dude either get your friend in trouble (tg is full of Wizards narcs ya know) or don't be a douche going 'I know something you don't know'.
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Sep 9, 2009 18:46
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Fine I'll shut up.
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Sep 9, 2009 18:51
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Etherwind posted:Fine I'll shut up. If I had a sig I would add this to it.
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Sep 9, 2009 18:54
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