Accountant Megathread - At Least We're Not Actuaries

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Accountant Megathread - At Least We're Not Actuaries

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

Hey guys, I usually lurk but I could really use some advice and I appreciate any useful input.

I'm a CPA with 7 years of experience in both public accounting (non-Big4) and industry (Fortune 100s). Recently, my company offered a voluntary severance for those of us who wanted out for whatever reason, I got about 6 months pay to leave. I took it because my girlfriend of 10 years had been wanting to move to NYC as she got a good job offer (6 figures), and I agreed that I would go with her as we both wanted to go to a new city. My very close cousin also moved to NYC, so that was an incentive as well.

I left the company in early April, and then my father fell ill due to kidney issues, so I stayed home with him to get him back on his feet and situated, it took about 2 months, and I finally moved to NYC on June 6th, 2019. So I've been looking about 3 weeks.

I've been sending out applications, and I've had a professional service review my resume and they said it was fine.

Here's approaches and issues that I've been having:

Cold applying on Indeed, LinkedIn, Company Websites, Reaching out to internal recruiters/managers on LinkedIn

Rarely a response from job apps besides automated rejections
Most recruiters and managers don't respond aside from canned responses, if any.
Snagged 1 interview (I like the company, so thats good) so far out of about 80 applications
Does this method ever work? Or is it all for show?

Networking

I'm on it, working what limited connections I have in NYC, and I'm talking to friends (not in the city) from companies that have a location in NYC for refferalls.
I understand how important networking is, as I've gotten my past jobs based on it. However, I've never relocated without having gone to college first in the new city.

External Recruiters

Appear predatory and I've had to tell several to go away.
Most of the jobs they present are all pretty terrible roles from companies with 2 stars on Glassdoor
"I don't want to do public accounting again as of this moment" "Hey Man, I have these awesome public accounting roles!"
Very pushy and expect answers within the hour, while ghosting you for days at a time, if not forever.

My questions are:

1. Is being currently unemployed (albeit a good reason) for the time being make it immensely harder to get a job?

2. Does applying on a website ever lead to anything? The return for the effort seems very low, but what else would you do if you don't have a connection?

3. Should I keep using external recruiters, or are they more of a waste of a time? They either ghost me, send me trash roles and get upset I don't want to interview for it, or just send me roles that I'm either completely overqualified for or underqualified for.

4. How long would you think it takes to find an accounting job with a larger company / start up in NYC? (that isn't public accounting)

5. Is it wrong for me to have the mindset of take whatever decent offer comes my way (even if the job isn't exactly ideal) and then keep looking? Even if it means quitting a new job after 2-3 weeks when a potential offer comes in? (obviously I'd only do this with jobs I found myself, and not if a friend refers me)

6. I'm interviewing with jobs that I am not very enthusiastic about due to external recruiters. Should I be open to whatever decent paying accounting job or be very selective?

7. Should I go back to public accounting to have a job in the city and immediately look for exit opps throughout that period?

# ¿ Jun 28, 2019 06:22

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:02

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

PatMarshall posted:

Sorry, our thread is kinda dead. You might also try r/accounting if you can stand reddit. I can only really speak to public tax in NYC, but there should be plenty of jobs for someone with your experience in public. That said, I'd really hesitate to take a job in public if I didn't want to stick it out for at least a year, especially if you know you'll hate it. Hours in New York are pretty bad, as you no doubt know. Financial services dominates in NYC, so it would be helpful to highlight any experience you have with funds/insurance/banking.

I think your experience looks promising, but it's always hard to find a job in a new city without connections. I'd say keep pounding the pavement to find the opportunity you are looking for unless you just need a job today, in which case public could be an option and could help you pivot to industry down the road.

Recruiters really suck, but at the same time they're useful for getting interviews, just don't let them jerk you around with roles you don't want. If you can find the actual recruiters from the hiring company rather than third party recruiters, its always much better. LinkedIn was useful when I was applying (although I stayed in public).

Applying to job postings online has worked for me in the past, but this was B4, they're very hungry. Never got much traction that way I industry.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll land on your feet.

Thanks Dude. I'll be alright, I'm noticing that about NYC. I have a girl that makes good money and she's keeping us afloat so I'm doing alright, I'm not in a rush, more worried about how a 3 month gap looks. Does it sound terrible in an interview if I say that I was traveling for a bit? I mean, we do have to enjoy life when we can.

I'll give it another month or so, if not I'll give public accounting a try and I'll put the time in for a year I guess and then immediately look for a way out. I'll do it if I have to.

And I've noticed that recruiters tend to push you towards roles you don't want, I tell them to go kick rocks quite frequently. But only if they are complete idiots that keep selling $15 bookkeeping jobs to me like its the only option I have or deadend jobs. If someone was making $80k before, why would they now do $15 an hour bookkeeping jobs while that time is better spent pursuing better opportunities? It's pretty silly if you think about it, even if you acknowledge that they are taking long shots.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2019 19:18

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

The job market for industry accounting in NYC is absolutely horrid right now.

All the company's are lowballing, doing 8 rounds of interviews, doing take home exams / projects / presentations and then ghosting you right after.

I hate this city some days.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2021 19:49

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

Zarin posted:

Been there; it's a soul-crushing experience that it took me years to get over (if I'm actually truly over it; I'm not so sure).

I liken it to rep grinding in an MMO, except you can't see how much each application/interview is worth and you can't see the progress bar.

Just know that EVENTUALLY, if you keep at it, you'll get that call that signifies that you finally finished the grind

Yeah but what about the part where the grind finishes, and then you enter into a lovely role and then the grind keeps going

# ¿ Aug 31, 2023 02:53

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

How's the job market for you guys currently? And which market are you looking in?

Currently in NYC, there's a hell of a lot of undesirable jobs in industry to be honest.

Lots of below market salary for the role listings, half of them can't even match my salary.

Big red flags during the interview such as understaffing, 4-5 days a week in office required, long hours, etc.

Also I don't know if it's my luck, but it seems almost every other place I interview at seems like a dumpster fire.

My current job isn't the best, but I'm already familiar with it. Why would I leave a dumpster fire for another one?

# ¿ Feb 17, 2024 22:44

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

Covok posted:

What's happening is that interest rates went up in 2023. As a result, a lot of companies want to "cut the fat" and accounting is always considered a cost center because it doesn't directly generate money. A lot of accountants keep bouncing for remote gigs or just bounce the industry all together. My boss got so fed up and was old enough to just retire than deal with things any longer. Right now, turnover is wild across the entire industry. People are jumping ship and thus eating up a lot of jobs while the number of jobs are going down because budgets are tightening. Like, for example, they are trying to eliminate my boss' position instead of getting a new one. We will see how long that lasts.

Since accountants tend to just bend over, it makes them easier to overwork, but that hasn't really worked in recent years so there is a lot of deathspirals in industry accounting as people jump ship and don't get replaced. It isn't sustainable. It's an overreaction to the big increase in salaries in 2021-2023 especially now that interest rates went up. It won't last. It doesn't help some people legit think AI will replace accountants. It creates the belief on both sides we are getting replaced which lowers supply and demand. AI is nowhere near to even replace a junior accountant so it won't last.

Just look at Lyft. Their stock went through the floor because of a minor accounting mistake that made it to the presentation that absolutely would normally get caught if they had a proper staff. Give a few more high profile gaffs, which are inevitable, and people will reconsider cutting accounting endlessly. It's like anything else: if they think they can get away with it and make money, they will, until loving around meets finding out.

I agree with you on every point you've made. I've experienced the death spiral myself in more than 1 organization.

One of the companies I worked for just collapsed during covid, another company's department collapsed after I left, and then the current job now is the most unstable situation I've ever been in. But none of the places I'm interviewing seem to have stable environments at all. When I was in person for some of the interviews, you can tell a lot from seeing the look on the staffs' faces. Everyone has this dead look that's unusual for even accounting departments.

Even in my job now, its a revolving door in not just accounting, but all of the departments. We hire staff and they only last 3-4 months each time because the job can get demanding and obnoxious.

All of this confirms what you're reflecting on. My question is, how do we get through this if we have a long career left ahead of us?

# ¿ Feb 25, 2024 00:44

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

Zarin posted:

To quote the prophet Charlie Berens: "Keep 'er movin' "

That is to say, you're not at a company forever. When looking elsewhere, don't apply for the role that you're currently in; you've already had that experience. Apply for the role that would be a promotion if your company was sane (they're not) and wanted to develop you (they don't).

I'm not gonna say it's not stressful, but it seems to work.

So people apply out for promotions often right and its one of the main reasons that people leave?

Such as to staff to senior, senior to manager, senior manager to director, etc?

I'm about to do that myself, but how do you sell it during the interview? I could see some people being hard asses about it, but I suppose I just answered my own question. You sell yourself by being logical and stating facts that show you already have the experience, and if someone is a dickhead I assume you wouldn't want to work for them anyways.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2024 22:55

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

What do you guys use to look for jobs nowadays? Specifically accounting? I'm in NYC for context.

I try to look at Linkedin and Indeed, but the vast majority of job listings are pretty trash to be honest.

Of course aside from using a network the old fashioned way. Anything else?

I need to leave my toxic job, but looking around has been discouraging to say the least.

Also, is there any resource out there for being able to listen to interviews as examples so I can get my head back in the game, its something I struggle with and I think that will help.

Smif-N-Wessun fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Mar 12, 2024

# ¿ Mar 12, 2024 21:07

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

Is Glassdoor basically unusable now? It asked me to verify my work email to update my employer / profile, so I just noped out of there. I'll just apply directly after searching.

The big job search boards are Glassdoor, Linkedin, Indeed, and not much else it seems?

So many terrible listings out there nowadays. I've been all over Linkedin and Indeed and it seems to be the same lovely jobs looking for the right person to exploit.

Covok posted:

Good question.

Technically, we didn't get these questions. We got a general: explain all these manual entries. We got a pivot table with summary figures. If you double click, you see what makes them up. I am inferring these questions because they're asking about these standard entries.

As for who sent it, it went to the controller. My controller says it was from staff but she knows the audit manager asked for it because of the email chain. But I didn't see the email chain.

For the record, there are some things worth questioning in some lines. I want to be fair. But out of the ones I looked at, that made up 1% or so. Like, if they just sent those weird ones, I'd get it. We had a situation where AP put a voucher in the wrong currency so we told AP and they reversed it and put it back in the right currency. It was 7k to 9k so I get that one. We had a weird situation where ADP refunded us a payroll check. Turns out someone went on vacation and tried to cash a payheck oversees at a check cashing store and set off some fraud alert thing on our bank. I'd say 10 or so items were worth asking, but they sent somewhere around 500.

But, what's weird is they clearly gave it some thought. Like, they sent us a question about every single line of payroll for all 52 weeks, but not any of the times we accrue for the final payroll that won't complete until after month end close (we have it auto reverse at day 1 of the next period). So, there was some thought.

To be precise, it seems they wanted to know about every manual entry that directly affected the P&L. But, these weren't anything new that we did.

Edit: I can definitely see someone saying they weren't doing enough internally and causing them to be extra vigiliant. Especially since the audit manager has been on it for 6 years. They could have been told to be more careful.

If it makes you feel any better, in my current job, the situation is so terrible we're on our 3rd CFO within the last 12 months.

The new one is spazzing out after I explained to him the issues. It doesn't help my director has this attitude of "I told you this would happen, and you ignored it, so yeah its happening" with all the terrible poo poo that's going on.

Said director is actively looking to quit, has advised me to quit and to start applying as of yesterday, and my previous CFO before leaving had called us and advised us to quit. Yes it is that bad.

I had some personal poo poo happen and I couldn't apply right away when our last CFO left in January and told us to seriously get the gently caress out.

My auditor was visibly laughing when I told him explanations for stuff that was happening way before I got here.

For one of the accounts, my explanation was "I don't know, they probably moved it to another account back in 2018 so that it wasn't material." I heard him make a sighing noise and then not say anything on the call lol.

I've been an auditor and been in his shoes, he just wants to finish the audit, not have serious poo poo he has to now move up the chain instead of just rolling workpapers forward lol

So anyways, yeah, that's why I've been trying to find a new job, but the market is a bit tight right now for good roles.

Smif-N-Wessun fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Apr 9, 2024

# ¿ Apr 9, 2024 03:29

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

Magicaljesus posted:

"Bad" as in going out of business, or "bad" as in it's just a terrible mess...or perhaps both?

If the organization is really bad and not realistically correctible, the writing will be on the wall. Unless there's a chance you'll not be receiving paychecks, CFO/Directors shouldn't be telling their downlines to abandon ship. There are a lot of executives who join organizations in disarray and simply can't/won't step out of their comfort zone. In many of these cases, the hiring committee simply omitted important the details about the state of the organization or they hired a resume rather than a person.

Both.

There's a chance one day we won't receive paychecks, that's how bad the situation is.

Every single finance related person they hire, comes in and looks shellshocked. They usually quit, but not before throwing an unprofessional fit.

I just got back from a trip dealing with some more family stuff (aging parents, etc) that's really time consuming or else I would have bounced a while ago. I'm looking now, but the market is filled with really awful jobs to be honest and I'd really like to be able to settle at my next place for a while.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2024 23:32

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:02

Smif-N-Wessun: Jan 18, 2009; P.U.S.H.

For everyone thats been interviewing, I have to ask if you've encountered alot of companies asking technical questions during interviews?

# ¿ Apr 22, 2024 03:58

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