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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
View Results
 
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C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
Hacksaw was basically Sandman if you replaced the cane with the 2x4 and beer with the flag.

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C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Claytor posted:

Watching that finish, I seriously thought it was a twist ending where Luger was turning to save Savage and Hogan.

Well, kinda.

WCW had been running an angle where Luger and Sting were friends, despite Luger being a heel and having some kind of association with the Dungeon of Doom. Everyone kept telling Sting that Lex was going to betray him at some point, and Sting being Sting ignored them. At the PPV, it was supposed to be Luger/Sting vs. Road Warriors, but Luger was put into the tower clusterfuck and that's what led to the Sting/Booker vs. Road Warriors snoozer. If anything, the Luger hesitation before hitting Flair may have been the only decent part of the match, since it cemented Luger as a face.

The blowoff came at War Games, where the nWo Sting had everyone convinced that Sting had turned, and when Sting protested Luger didn't believe him. Having had Luger's back despite everyone telling him otherwise, yet people doubting Sting the second it appeared he had turned, caused Sting to snap and go into the rafters for a year and a half.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

greatn posted:

The Finlay angle was really good actually. The announcers kept building up Benoit/Booker, when all of a sudden Finlay defeated Booker for the title I'm a Reebok nitro match.

Can't let this magnificent autocorrect pass by unnoticed.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Great White Hope posted:

It's Pearl, not Merle. :v:

No, it's Merle, specifically Merle Haggard. Don't know who that is educate yourself. Merle Haggard kick all y'all asses today.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
I never realized he was called Stagger Lee after the song, I thought he was called that because he was a drunk.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Fauxhawk Express posted:

He actually won the IWGP junior title from Liger that way.

Liger conveniently forgot the belt back in the hotel that day, too.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
A biography on Vince's life would end up being like that one war hero who starred in the movie about his life in that they had to tone down elements because they figured no one would believe it.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
I was going to just show up to my job and just go through the motions but then my boss texted me to say he was sick so I didn't go in and will still get paid and later a promotion and maybe a big fancy belt too or something I don't know.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
Vince ends up going to work for Bischoff, politics his way up the ranks, becomes head booker instead of Russo, and when the AOL/Time Warner merger comes still buys the company out for a song.

In the end nothing changes except no XFL or Linda Senate runs.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

DynamiteKidd posted:

It's either real estate or cars or bouncing or a podcast and never anything else.

We've already forgotten about Gene Snitsky, creepy chicken pitchman I see.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

DDP also had effective control over his own segments since he could go over Sullivan's head to Bischoff when he wanted to do something.

With how short Sullivan is I'm sure most people could go over his head.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

ParanoidInc posted:

It's literally one of my favorite matches in history since against any other opponent I'd be going "wow, screw you shawn you unprofessional baby" but since it's against HULK HOGAN it's loving MOTY entirely because it's The Passion of The Micheals

edit: also the build up had hbk doing the best promo of his life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfC68txPPkw

Michaels in Montreal may be the best heel promo of all time. Nuclear heat.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Alain Post posted:

Remember when Scott Keith made some snide post about El Dandy being the shittiest worker on Nitro or something

Professional fat jealousy rearing it's ugly head.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
It's also that Rey/Juvi/Psychosis were getting over in ECW, which was a good way to get yourself some Turner money.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

exploding mummy posted:

There was the tables scaffold match with Tommy Dreamer that had both the benefit of a) looking awesome as 4 tables blow up and b) be the safest scaffold match

And then there's New Jack/Vic Grimes, which was doing its damnedest to be the opposite, even before Jack tried to kill him.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
No Limit Records was Cash Money Records before Cash Money were. Basically they filled the gap from Death Row to Cash Money.

The less said about Snoop's tenure in No Limit the better, however...

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
I don't want an nWo shirt but I want to subject my POSTAL WORKER to the catalog mailing list, what should I do

fake edit - lmao at giant size just being xxl

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
congrats on taking goon infighting to a whole new level

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Halloween Jack posted:

I'm just alternate history brainstorming here: if the WWF and WCW both died before 2001, when would that have happened?

This is my favorite bit of alt history to kinda play with. I've always theorized that had WWF gone bankrupt, Vince would have swallowed his pride and gone to work for Bischoff/Turner. But as WCW's incompetency under Bischoff start to come about and Vince started working his way up, eventually a change in top personnel would be needed, and who better than a guy who ran a national fed for almost two decades?

So it leads to Vince McMahon booking WCW, and once the Time Warner/AOL merger comes about, Vince is able to find the other investors (Dick Ebersol/NBC-Universal still, perhaps) to buy out WCW and ends up being the last man standing again. Certainly not to the extent now, where Stone Cold never happens and the company doesn't go public, but like a good cockroach Vince stays alive.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
The real question is if the rise of UFC/MMA still happens independently of what happens to wrestling, since MMA having an earlier ascension means guys like Angle and Lesnar don't step foot into a wrestling ring.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

triplexpac posted:

Why are celebrities wearing NWO Wolfpac shirts?

they're too sweet

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
"New Yawk Rulez caunt ya own fawlz" is funnier than it has any right being.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
I'm gonna post that video with the headline "THREE WHITE TEENS ASSAULT ELDERLY BLACK HOCKEY FAN" and see if I can get it to the top of the Huffington Post.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

MassRafTer posted:

Also quite the note from the 6/12/00 Observer

When did those ECW DVDs come out commercially, since I bought them all I just don't remember when.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
Almost certainly the latter. It probably doesn't get as big without Hogan and getting the primary focus on WCW TV, and if it did get big Hogan comes in as the conquering hero like you said.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Drakkel posted:

I know the theoretical is what would Hogan do in WWF in 1998 but also what would WCW do without him? Does the NWO fizzle out way faster than it eventually did or do they panic and try to make someone else like Savage the leader?

If we assume that Hogan does the job at Starrcade '97 and then leaves, I still think we get the nWo civil war, black and white vs Wolfpac. There's money in the initial angle, there's money in the breakup, and then there's money in the reconciliation. I'm trying to remember but Hogan's '98 was uneventful other than the Goldberg match in the Georgia Dome and the Warrior debacle at Halloween Havoc.

In the end, Nash still ends up in charge as he was setting himself up to break Goldberg's streak, nWo breakups and revivals happen like clockwork, and the AOL/Time Warner merger still results in the cancellation of Nitro/Thunder. Now, if Hogan fucks over Austin and WWF doesn't go through the roof, who ends up buying WCW is in question, but that's several dominos away.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

ChrisBTY posted:

That angle wasn't about Jericho. It was about HHH's triumphant return. Which would have been a good idea had it not involved HHH (and Jericho suddenly simping for Steph).
And then cue five more years of HHH making sure Jericho wouldn't get one on him.

Hence why Austin and Rock wanted nothing to do with being the first champ. Same way Ronnie Garvin got to be NWA champ; someone had to be the one to hand Flair the belt.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
in b4 26 pages of "who was the best wrestling racist" and the thread gets locked.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Suplex Liberace posted:

You get the Great moniker once you learn how to spit poison.

So what did Khali ever spit.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
Sid was great on the surface. Big guy, instantly recognizeable with the blonde curls, intensity cranked up to ten kerjillion, yelley/screamy, murdered the living poo poo out of jobbers with big satisfying power moves. Sid took himself 100% seriously and people responded in kind.

The issue is that once you move past the surface and need to get more than a squash out of Sid, there's nothing there, and it's why once you've seen the Sid act a couple of times and need something more, the appeal went away and thus usually did Sid.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

ChrisBTY posted:

OTOH Hogan might be why Paul Wight had a 20+ year career instead of a 10 year career. He probably would have inflicted a ton of wear and tear on his body trying to do that stuff on the reg.
I also remember when he did the missle dropkick in WCW. It took him like 3 hours to balance himself on the top rope. Personally I'd rather see 10 years of moonsaulting Big Show than 20 years of boring Big Show but I know that's selfish of me.

We've all seen just how broken down he is now just from normal wrestling wear and tear and being that big in general. We could probably count the number of times he went off the top rope on two hands, If he was going off the top rope on a regular basis he'd probably be immobilized/paralyzed by now.

If anything he probably bumped far too much for his size in general. Andre made it a huge deal when someone slammed him, Wight was taking Perfect-plexes and poo poo when he should have veto'd that poo poo but didn't have the veteran status/know-how.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

MassRafTer posted:

There was a genuine belief in some old school wrestlers that the heel must always be a worse wrestler than the babyface and only be able to win through cheating or underhanded means.

The idea is that if you have two wrestlers of even card status (low, middle, high), then the babyface is the better wrestler and should win if the match is clean, thus the heel needs to cheat to win because they would always lose otherwise.

Higher card heels can beat lower card babyfaces clean, usually in squashes, because they are better wrestlers.

The idea is that the babyface should always win except if that bastard heel cheats and next time the babyface is gonna get that son of a bitch so come back next week/month and see that no good prick get what he deserves. Bring your friends and your money.

NameHurtBrain posted:

Has anyone actually tried to push a heel who is legitimately good at wrestling(kayfabe wise)? IE, they always win clean. But they remain heel because they're absolute loving shitbags about it. Just super arrogant, milking cheap heat, go over the top heel just that they technically win by the book?

Like, even Kurt Angle was a cheating little poo poo most of the time.

All that comes to mind is technically monster heel initial megapushes, in which I guess they technically don't break any rules. But I'm thinking of literally more a Kurt Angle type.

I guess Lesnar comes to mind but I haven't watched any of his matches since he came back so someone tell me if I'm right or not tia.

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Alaois posted:

He'd be way better if he was still fat

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

stab posted:

I'll ask him if it makes any sense

and this has ever mattered in wrestling?

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Erin M. Fiasco posted:

I can't believe you all spoiled someone who was going into the event blind. :( We could have gotten the first unfiltered reaction in 30 years.

ban for spoilers

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Mr Hootington posted:

I don't know what those are

Watch New Jack make some white friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2RvJWGs7M

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Mr Hootington posted:

This is a 1990 teddy long promo

poo poo teddy predicted oj? fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008
tbf vic grimes was way above the ring and then only kinda in the ring so it technically shouldn't count

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C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

Lid posted:

Everytime I see Vic Grimes name I can only think of that XPW superfan that became a Chikara ref and was trying to get an XPW book published for decades. That dude loved Vic Grimes.

I remember that he got ran off of every message board possible, including maybe this one idk, was a terrible ref in Chikara, refused to stay with people in favor of sleeping on a bench in a public park, and passed away under suspicious circumstances.

If wrestling attracts the weirdos, XPW sure scrapped the bottom of the barrel.

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