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This is a 3.5 question. I'm posting it here because this is the closest thing to a 3.5 thread. I'm going to make a Dragonfire Adept (from Dragon Magic) for an ongoing campaign in case my current character dies. I'd like to do it with Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds), and add the Saint template (also from BoED). Now, I'd like to take Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace, which state you can't hurt anyone ever if they're alive (undead and constructs don't count). If they try to attack you, they have to make a Fort save or their weapon just shatters, and they also have to make a Will save or be affected by Calm Emotions (and thus, unable to attack). Problem with this is that Saint has a special ability. Whenever an evil creature hits you with a natural attack, they take 1d6 damage from holy bleedoff. My question is whether or not this would qualify as breaking my Vow of Nonviolence/Peace since I didn't intentionally wound them. Another question is if there are any Exalted feats anywhere besides the BoED and the Player's Guide to Faerun, because I can't find any and the options are lacking, really. Especially with a bonus feat every other level for Vow of Poverty.
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Mar 21, 2010 12:11
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Chernori posted:Just to make sure I understand, you're arguing that wizards are balanced versus other classes, because he was able to be taken down by two player characters in an environment that completely favoured them? Just to make sure I understand, you're arguing that wizards aren't balanced because they win when the conditions and environment completely favor them? I agree. 3.5 casters are more powerful than non-casters (druids in particular are ridiculous), but you're making it sound like every non-caster is just a dope with a sword and that's just not true. Because they're underpowered doesn't make them retards who stumble around and smack trees with sticks. Any fight typically comes down to initiative and tactics. If wizards are so much better than fighters by 20th level, then a 20th level fighter should know that and have his poo poo ready in case he encounters a wizard. It's not hard to have a periapt of proof vs. death, or a ring with immunity to mind affecting spells, or 10 ranks of UMD and a scroll of anti-magic shell and a non-magical way to fly, just like it's not hard for a wizard to have Finger of Death or Dominate Monster or Fly ready to cast. The argument people typically make for this is that 'wizards only lose if fighters specifically prepare for them.' On that same note, though, wizards only win if they've prepared their poo poo correctly, and if the other guy isn't smart enough (after 20 levels, which is what these fights always come down to: 20TH LEVEL DIVINER!!). Yes, fighters are underpowered. Feats are loving nothing compared to the ability to cast Mindrape or Horrid Wilting. But that doesn't mean fighters are useless morons. Just like any wizard, built well, they perform well (well... adequately). Built badly, they perform badly.
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Mar 22, 2010 15:41
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Danhenge posted:Please describe to me a non-magical way to fly. A griffon? Pegasus? Any number of other flyin animals. Fighters do have Handle Animal and Ride. Hell, take Leadership and get a dragon. Having played 3/3.5 since its inception, I just don't get the love for anything that can cast a spell. I've never even seen anyone play a wizard the way everyone says they can be played. I've been in countless games, including one epic level game, and never played with a wizard that just flew around the battle field 1 foot within range of his longest range spell casting it repeatedly while invisible. While it could have happened, it never really did. Angry Diplomat posted:oh man that mount better have freakin' balling will and fortitude saves because otherwise that wizard is going to laugh and laugh at all the falling damage the fighter is about to take Yep. Gonna walk Herman the 2 HD pegasus right up to Matinorous the Mottled, King of All He Surveys just hoping for the best. Swags fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 22, 2010 |
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Mar 22, 2010 16:10
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Tell them to prove it's balanced you want a level 20 game where you get to play the wizard and cleric and they're all fighters. TOTAL BALANCE
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Nov 4, 2010 21:14
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My binder, which I had taken from level 3 to 14, died last week. So I'm thinking of bringing in a summoner, and playing him like Ash Ketchum from Pokemon, mainly because I think it's a hilarious concept. Level 14, of course. 1) Any good summoner builds out there? 2) I'm stuck as far as good magic items. Which ones to pick? 3) Can someone lay out some awesome tactics for me, or any keys to the class? I want to be able be useful enough to compete with everyone else (Elf bard, gnome rogue, human sorcerer, and a half-orc cleric).
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Nov 9, 2010 17:45
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Swags posted:My binder, which I had taken from level 3 to 14, died last week. So I'm thinking of bringing in a summoner, and playing him like Ash Ketchum from Pokemon, mainly because I think it's a hilarious concept. Level 14, of course.
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Nov 10, 2010 16:16
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Made my summoner. He is a level 14, fully unarmed and unarmored young boy walking around with a gigantic Pokemon. He treated all monsters as Pokemon, and would throw small balls at their faces and when they were killed he would 'capture' them. I planned to summon them later using the SM list as whatever kind of appropriate monster I could think of (Cold subtype Roc was Articuno, etc). That was the plan, anyhow. It was a fun gimmick and having this excited little kid in the party went over pretty well. We didn't even get to any fights. We're playing the 3.5 game Anauroch, and it is a bitch. Essentially, and this is a spoiler and all the warning you get for such, the god of magic has the Weave. The god of darkness has the Dark Weave. Well, in the place where we were going, the Weave did not work. Only the Dark Weave did. Permanent anti-magic field that only affected us. This is our party: My summoner, a bard (with Sublime Chord, so essentially a wizard), a cleric of Myrkul, a celestial sorcerer, and a really lovely rogue. So, instantly, my Pokemon is gone, and I can't summon, and am essentially a commoner. Bard is a rogue without sneak attack. Cleric is an armored rogue without sneak attack. Sorcerer is a commoner. Rogue is horribly made, and entirely melee, so she doesn't matter. The DM told us what the first encounter was going to be: Three mages, mounted on these flying creatures, shoot down spells at us (they use the Dark Weave, so they're fine). Their tactics, as written in the book, is to use things like cloudkill, finger of death, etc. Anything that is awesome and deadly. They want to separate the party to make it easy to kill them all. If you manage to kill a wizard, the others leave to get backup. If you manage to kill a mount, the wizard on him Gaseous Forms, and the others leave to get back up. I have no idea how we'd accomplish either task, though, since all of our ranged attacks were wrapped up in me throwing rocks and the rogue's shortbow, both of which would've been canceled by DR 5/magic. This is not the first time this has happened. This is the third in a series of three books, and each includes at least one major fight against major spellcasters with no magic. The horrible thing is that this wasn't the major fight. This was just a random patrol. There would be no fights, and we would no survive them. We, as players and as characters, decided this was pretty balls. We're not going to play anymore, 'cause this game loving sucks. Everyone left pretty pissed, and it's kind of lovely how much time it feels like I've wasted on this piece of poo poo adventure.
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Nov 12, 2010 11:02
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Red_Mage posted:That sounds really terrible. I don't know if your dm is a cool open guy, or some realms obsessed nard, but maybe you can convince him that salvaging the game by either modifying the module, or changing the setting but letting you keep your characters. If none of his players are having fun, he wont have much choice if you tell him "its the module or the game." According to him, he really wanted to, but almost the entire rest of the module is based around us not having magic, then suddenly having it right at the end. Granted, we did have the option to take Dark Weave magic items before going into this fight, but the problem is, if you are not accustomed to them, every time you use one, it's 1d4 Wisdom damage. Everyone at the table, except the cleric, has 10 wis or lower. We'd end up making ourselves comatose in three rounds. Ugh. My trainer was neat. My eidolon was a huge, four-armed creature with rend and grab (Machamp). I also was going to summon a swarm of Mankeys and Primeapes (Girallons), a Haunter (Shadow Demon), Gengar (Soul Eater), etc. I was pretty much just giving the guys I could already summon a name from the game. For instance, the rest of the group came upon me as I was watching Machamp beat up a little squirrel thing. Then I shoved it into a ball. Later on, I summoned an Earth Elemental who I said was that same squirrel, only now it was a Sandslash. Gimmicky, but kind of fun. Really makes me want to play an all summoner game. Swags fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 11:39
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Honestly, the first two times, our way of beating the fight was that we had characters who used Shadow Magic on our team, mainly because we had to. These are three published modules, 3.5 FR stuff called Cormyr, Shadowdale, and Anauroch, and each of them had it at least once. Tactical Bonnet: He + I ruled that it would make the Eidolon go away because the description says it can't be dispelled, but it also says it works as a summoned monster, and those wouldn't last either.
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Nov 12, 2010 19:48
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Kind of want to make Astaroth, from Soul Calibur. My idea is to use the Dungeon Crusher build out of Dungeonscape, along with a lot of the tripping/throwing feats/powers from Tome of Battle. Any way to do this properly with 1) with an axe and 2) without completely screwing myself?
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Nov 21, 2010 17:12
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Captain Hats posted:This is perfectly workable. Dungeoncrasher is a great fighter variant, dropping out at 6th into a Tome of Battle class will leave you in pretty good stead. The main bullrushing powers are in Setting Sun, which by default only swordsages can access. You can take feats (Martial Training) to add up to three Setting Sun manoeuvres to your list in other classes though, and three moves will give you a fair variety of ways to bullrush and throw people about. Pure swordsage would work too though, and if you use the discipline focus things on Stone Dragon then with your fighter feats you'll be racking up huge greataxe bonuses. I know this is likely impossible, but is there any way to get a warforged with powerful build? This is just based on the character, but Astaroth is a golem-thing, but a human thing, and I kind of want to make it like that. Possible?
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Nov 28, 2010 14:15
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Argali posted:Yeah to be honest, one part of me was psyched to get to certain parts of Savage Tide, while the other got totally sick of running combat once my players started advancing out of the 3.5 "sweet spot." Plus, as I've mentioned in another thread, I made the classic mistake of letting one of the PCs be a Vow of Poverty druid, one of THE most broken builds in the history of 3.5. He pretty much ruined the fun for everyone after a while because I kept having to nerf him on the fly, etc. Are you making him actually play it all correctly? I mean, he has to stick to each Vow he takes, always strive to do everything he can to be the best person possible, consider all options and how he would do them to further his church's aims, etc. Also, just because he's in the group doesn't mean the treasure gets split without him as a possible source. I.e., in a 5 person party, the other four people don't suddenly get 25%. Everyone gets 20%, and his portion goes to the poor, or soup kitchens, etc. This could even work against him, when enemies start targeting those people to get at him. VoP isn't nearly as broken as everyone wants it to be. I played a Saint and it was pretty drat hard, since I actually had to stick to all of that stuff.
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May 16, 2011 16:18
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I was reading the Ultimate Magic book, and I came across the Synthized Eidolon concept for the summoner. Combining this with alchemist (for mutagen, etc) would it be possible to make some sort of kid who's massively powered when his chems and his eidolon kick in?
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Aug 4, 2011 20:46
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My new game idea: Everyone gets a feat at every level. Fighters get two feats at every level. Everyone may take one archetype for free (without trading class abilities). You may take another one, but must trade out the class abilities for it. Fighters can take two for free, then trade out as normal. Hit points begin at 30 at first level, then you add additional hit points according to race and class at each level. Anyone arguing about any rule for more than 3 minutes at the table is instantly killed in the game. There will be a miniature hourglass. Edit: Gunfighters can just be rangers with guns or something, I guess. They really blow. Just take a crossbow ranger and replace crossbow-optimal poo poo with 'firearm'.
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Aug 5, 2011 07:59
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I have to say that I love non-magical characters that can do extraordinary things. I also like the classes and new systems that aren't "well, a Witch is a wizard, but with curses." Things like incarnum are neat ideas, usually with pretty crappy fluff, same as Bo9S, but neat ideas. Binders and Truenamers and Shadowmages are also neat ideas, even if somewhere in there most of them really started sucking. I think non-magical classes that can do cool things are fun to play, and honestly, I prefer them. In most (early) fantasy books, the main character was not some gish that could do anything he wanted, he was a reluctant knight with a sword fighting great evil. I think the problem with a lot of those concepts, though, is that Pathfinder is really, really set on its magical system, and a lot of classes will only see their abilities shine in a non- or low-magic game. Seriously, if you have a sorcerer with a bunch of rays, why use a Gunslinger? Non-magic characters need more options, but more importantly, they need more access to those options. This was something Iron Heroes really did well. I guess what I'm saying, is that if you're just going to introduce a system along the lines of grit/rage/ki/etc., which are all essentially the same system, then what does yours have that the other ones don't? Swags fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 7, 2011 |
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Aug 7, 2011 10:32
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I'm doing a lot of houseruling in Pathfinder in which I essentially rewrite a large part of the system to give non-casters a bit more of a bonus and power down casters a bit (while still giving them bonuses to compensate for lack of spells, so, for example, sorcerers have bard-like casting, but two bloodlines). The problem I'm running into is with the gunslinger. I can't figure out how to buff them up or anything without essentially giving them ranger combat trees. Everyone seems to have a fix for this, so I wanna hear your guys' suggestions on the gunslinger. Thanks.
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Oct 2, 2011 06:15
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J. Alfred Prufrock posted:The big point of advise here is: take Heighten Spell. Heighten Spell essentially only raises the DC, correct? If I remember it from 3.5, you could always put a Color Spray in a 9th level slot, it just still had the save of a 1st level spell. That right? Different topic: So I was looking at the Bladebound Magus archetype and read the whole 'one-handed slashing weapon' thing and was thinking of using a scorpion whip as my intelligent weapon. Is it possible to use Magus, take Pain Tester, and take the awesome Whip feats without being absolutely useless? I figured 1d4+str+2d6+2d6(elemental)+spell wouldn't be too bad, but I don't really know.
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Nov 16, 2011 17:15
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I always liked BlaineTog's old Soulknife fix from the old 3.5 optimization boards. Grah: This doesn't even count the lackluster feats you need to get into Pain Taster. However, I'm fine with being subpar in combat so long as the character is neat, and if feats are the only reason not to do this, my DM allows us to use 3.5 materials as well, so I can buy a wand of Heroics and get all the feats I need.
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Nov 17, 2011 23:11
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Ignoring my whip magus idea for the moment: I've been thinking about a Spellthief. Yeah, I know, out of one crappy concept and into another. Basic build (we're level 9), would be somewhere along the lines of: Spellthief 1/Hexblade 2/Spellthief 6 (Level 9). The reason to include the Hexblade levels is because 1) both are cha-based classes, 2) Hexblades get a bonus to vs. spells equal to their Cha, and 3) Any time a spellthief saves against a spell/SLA he absorbs it and can use it himself next round. Feats: H Combat Reflexes F Pursuit (allows you to take an enemy's five foot step with them) 1 Dreadful Wrath 3 TWF 5 Mage Slayer 7 Pierce Magical Protection 9 Telling Blow If I can find a way to toss in Pierce Magical Concealment, I'm doing it. This gives me: Mages can't cast near me without provoking. If they five-foot step away, I can follow them. If I make a full attack, enemies have to make a will save or flee in terror. Every attack dispels all AC boosting spells automatically (unless I want otherwise, such as to steal them). Crits give sneak damage, meaning I steal spells. I sneak up to a guy to stab him, steal a spell, cast it, everyone has to make a will save or flee in terror. I figured I'd go with kukris and make them Sudden Stunning and Magebane/Godbane (houseruled enchantment that is like Magebane for clerics/oracles). DM is open to 3.5 stuff in Pathfinder and altering it if it sounds need, so I'm wondering if he'll let me grab the Skirmisher archetype from Ranger for some neat tricks and then I could set about stabbing things to death. I think it sounds pretty viable. Any flaring issues?
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Nov 21, 2011 13:15
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On a non-MMO subject: Which country in Golarion has no magic. Is it Andoran? Forgot the name of it and everything I'm looking up doesn't mention it.
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Nov 25, 2011 08:09
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I'm running a campaign right now in which I went into the Pathfinder system and rewrote a lot of stuff to see if it made the game a little better. My group likes pulpy, action packed games, so I gave everyone a feat every level and a free archetype (free meaning, you get the bonuses of said archetype, but don't trade anything out for it). Each class got a small write up to deal with what I/my group thinks that class should do as well, such as rogues being the only class able to use action points to influence enemies and alchemists getting a bonus to use standard alchemical items like Thunderstones/Tanglefoot bags, etc. Here's the entry for fighters: Fighter: Archetype: Fighters get TWO free archetypes, for which they trade out no class abilities. They can take further archetypes as normal. BaB: Excellent. (as per Iron Heroes Weapon Master) Defense: +4 AC, +4 DR Skills: 4. Additionally, fighters get Knowledge (tactics) maxed for free. Also, Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Escape Artist, and Perception are added to the Fighter class skill list. (Fighters are the typical guard class, so they should know how to perceive. Additionally, feinting is part of what melee combat is about. Acrobatics/Atheletics/Escape Artist just make sense) Feats: Unlike all classes, Fighters get 3 feats per level. (this replaces typical fighter bonus feats) Spells: Fighters do not get spells. Abilities: Fighters a bonus to their CMD and CMB equal to +½ their class level. I figure that in most fantasy literature, fighters are the dudes charging the dragon with a stick. They should be able to shrug off fear (spend a feat on Iron Will, etc), trip/disarm/beat whole armies to death, that sort of thing. This is what they -do-. I really don't care if the system says they can't, so I changed it. With these rules, two people made fighters. One is a swashbuckler type who is focused on fighting in a flashy manner while being acrobatic, and the other is an unarmored (seriously, like AC 14) greatclub using beatstick. They're very different characters, and I can honestly say I would call neither of them useless, even compared to the alchemist, bard, sorcerer, summoner, or wizard characters that were made.
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Dec 31, 2011 13:29
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2 li'l anecdotes: I DMed City of the Spider Queen a while back, towards the end of 3.0, and we had a rogue/ranger/spellfire wielder guy in the group who mostly fought in melee. I rewarded something he did with him finding a black-bladed longsword named Waela Jaluk (some drow translator at the time said it meant 'foolish male'), who was a former drow weapon master shape-changed into a sword. This sword was fairly powerful, but it could mainly only ensure it's own survival. I.e., it had Heal as a spell, but it only affected itself, meaning if it got damaged it could fix itself. It had teleport, but the range was 'away from harm' and only affected the sword. And it's mission was 'destroy all other intelligent items.' Generally, was a funny, if a bit snide, companion. Though obviously evil, it treated its wielder as a pupil and was fairly fine with being wielded by a non-drow, since drow had done this to it in the first place. It only used its teleportation ability to get out of damage (rust monster/annihilator thing and some kind of ooze) like twice, and honestly was right outside the door of the room with the monster, just waiting for the rogue to pick him up again. When he finally did get hit, he healed himself, and asked the rogue to kill anyone daring enough to attack him. The only time he ever EGO'd the rogue was when the rogue dared to not attack a high priestess's intelligent snake-headed whip. The party got to watch the rogue go all zombie-eyes and then just hack away at her weapon until the sword (not the rogue) finally stopped screaming. Good times. He even apologized, in his own sort of better-than-you way. 2nd thing: In a Pathfinder game we're playing now, the party Magus has the black blade template. Seeing that the blade can be any type of one-handed slashing weapon, he took the Exotic Weapon Proficiency for Dwarven Waraxe and picked it. Now he has a gigantic waraxe, named Beard, who is essentially a dwarven slayer from Warhammer in axe form. The thing just wants to fight. The thing is, only a Magi can tell what kind of awesome thing Beard is. To everyone else, it looks like the most pitted, scarred, rusty piece of poo poo axe we've ever laid eyes on. Beard understands this and just wants to be a good looking dwarf again, and sometimes pushes our Magus towards doing things to put him on that path.
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Jan 6, 2012 12:16
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Typically, it's looked at as pretty fine. However, you should still support the store you're playing at, so I'd say to do something like buy the mini that represents your guy there or something. Just something to show them you are a customer.
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Jan 8, 2012 04:44
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I've got a game going on right now where my character died last week. We're level 10, and we need a beat stick, so I figured on barbarian. DM allows us to use old 3.5 stuff, so I was going through some books and saw the Bear Warrior class that apparently no one has ever used before. First of all, apparently I can't stack rage and frenzy and bear. That sucks, but I'll deal with it. However, Frenzy also gives you another attack, so it might be worth it to go frenzied berserker then bear warrior, just to get another bite. DM asked what kind of items I was going to take, and I said that since I'll be constantly in bear form, I'll grab Vow of Poverty and not have any items, just a nice bloke that gives all of his money to the temple of Desna. So ridiculously min-maxing them (with a 7 Int and Cha, 20 str to start), I'm looking at somewhere around 18 str +2 race +8 bear +2 VoP = 30 Str. So I'll be clawing for 1d6+10, which isn't bad, but isn't quite great, either. I figure the bonus is that I can grab because of bear, and overrun because I'll be taking those feats. Speaking of: Overrun has a feat in its tree called Elephant Stomp. I've read it a dozen times and I cannot figure out a use for this feat. Seriously, what is the point of this? You make your roll to overrun, and instead of knocking them down (the point of overrun) you make one attack instead? How the hell would this come up? It seems useless. Meanwhile, Charge Through allows you to target the guy at the back of a group, charge him, and bowl over everyone in your path. So, should I take a level of Frenzied Berserker just to get an additional attack in bear form? I won't get any of the stat bonuses, but the attack might be nice. And with Righteous Wrath (the barbarian exalted feat) I can pop out of rage/frenzy any time I want and don't have to kill people. Is there another way to boost strength/damage output that I'm not seeing? Proposed Builds: Fighter 1/Barbarian 5/Frenzied Berserker 1/ Bear Warrior 3 Fighter 1/Barbarian 6/Bear Warrior 3 Barbarian 7/Bear Warrior 3. Gonna take Instantaneous Rage ("He casts a spell on you." "OK, I'm a bear."), Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Greater Overrun, Charge Through, and anything else I might need. Will possibly have to do some finagling or leave Greater Overrun out of the equation. If it matters, we're running Curse of the Crimson Throne and are starting the 4th book tonight. I'd be a member of the Shoanti Moon Clan, using the bear as my totem and Desna as my goddess.
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Jan 19, 2012 15:04
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Overrun: Say a bad guy is blocking you, you can use Overrun to get behind him. He can either let you by, or you have the chance of just bowling him over. By itself, yeah, it's a bit weak. Where Overrun really comes into its own is with the feat Charge Through. It lets you target a charge opponent that is blocked by other people, and overrun everyone in front of him to get to him. I.e.: pre:B 1 2 3
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Jan 19, 2012 20:10
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Made a Hellknight yesterday. His build is: Antipaladin (Lawful Evil instead of Chaotic Evil) 5 / Hellknight 5. Took the bond for magical weapons instead of the fiendish companion. Don't know which Hellknight order to take. Vigilance was pretty awesome (Scourge), but Gate really looks like sucky. Stats: Str 22 Dex 08 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 20 Feats: Exotic Weapon Prof: Dwarven Waraxe (lovely, I know. It's for RP purposes. Is there a better weapon to take?) Shield Prof: Tower Intimidating Prowess Leadership Antagonize Some other I forget. Equipment: Belt of Strength +4 Cloak of Charisma +4 +1 Dwarven Waraxe +1 Light Fortification Hellknight Plate +1 'Fortress' Tower Shield. Basically, I'm a walking brick that can force people to fight me. I have an incredibly high Intimidate, around +20, good Bluff, and the ability to see through lies and, well, see through 5 feet of anything else. It's pretty neat, and flavorful, but mostly useless. I really wish I hadn't dumped dex, since he's at +3 max dex and I could use the AC, but there's really nothing I can do about it. Character took Leadership because 1) he's Chelaxian nobility and 2) DM told me I could have a Nightmare to ride around on, which sounded pretty boss. Problem is, I'm a 10th level character, swinging at +15/+10 for 1d10+7 damage. Even if I pop vicious onto my weapon, it's only 1d10+2d6+7, which seems lackluster. How should I work this out so that I get a bit more use out of him, either tank-wise or damage wise?
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Feb 17, 2012 22:02
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Honestly, if you're going to take Healing Hex, spend one of your feats on Extra Hex. It's useful, yes, but it's not so useful you want it over Slumber or Cackle or Flight.
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Mar 12, 2012 09:33
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This is the soulknife I used to play. BlaineTog was pretty well known on the old CharOp boards over at the WotC website and he loved the concept of the class but hated the execution, so he altered it a bit. It's not horrible, especially when you add in Atatvist (from Races of Eberron) or Warmind (XPH). It can get kind of stupid awesome. Link to class.
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Mar 16, 2012 17:46
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A friend of mine is making the iconics for his setting that he's selling and I'm looking them over and they just seem so useless and wrong. Like the gunslinger with something like a 14 dex, and 14 wis, and just... well, she's a gunslinger anyway. Why the gently caress would you play one. Or the witch, with 13 str, 13 AC, 17 hp, and feats that boost her Strength (by one, mind you, so to 14). I ask him why she has that, if it's just for flavor, and he says, "No, it's to boost her strength up to 14 so she can melee with her longspear." He says this is the kind of character he wants to play, the kind that is apparently an abyssmal melee person who melees. He told me if I don't like his iconics, I shouldn't pick them to play when we playtest the adventures. I told him me not picking them is not the solution, him not building them badly is. You can't build a fighter with no arms and no armor and go, "BUT HE CAN KICK TOO!" It's retarded. Grabbing a pure casting class, building them badly, and doing it so they can run naked into melee isn't 'iconic,' it's dumb. There's also a support-type character with a high intelligence (that seems to be helping her only for skills; they boost her save DCs too but she has absolutely no spells with DCs so it doesn't matter) is seems to be focused on being a crossbowman, but has a dex of 12 and can barely hit anything. The problem is, whenever I bring up stuff like this, with say, "An Ogre, an equivilent CR 3 monster, would crush your witch with an average roll, and likely kill her with a good one." He says that she's not supposed to be alone. There's supposed to be a fighter in between her and the ogre, and he should be giving her cover while she swings over his shoulder with her spear at the ogre. I told him the ogre also has reach, and can take a five-foot step. Or the giant centipede, or any other CR 3 monster that this witch would try to melee. But that would never happen, the fighter's in the way. Just seems useless to me, I suppose. If he would've said, "It's for flavor, to show people the campaign world!" I could've bought it, but instead he said "these are the kinds of characters I would want to play." Seems like he's just giving the people that're getting a taste of his setting a pretty bad taste, really.
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Jun 5, 2012 18:54
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I find the fighter as it stands to be lackluster because every fighter is pretty much the same, whereas wizards can be vastly different from one another. We all know it's not balanced as it is, and doesn't even stand up to most fantasy tropes (seriously, in what book does the fighter get scared and run from the dragon instead of charging it head on? I haven't read it yet.), and frankly the fighter's +1 to hit is really not worth the bonuses that wizard/sorcerer bloodlines give. So I was wondering about possibly putting in fighter 'schools' of training, such as with a rapier, or with sword and cloak, etc. This is not an archetype, just another form of training to kind of set them apart and put fighters in a more historical context, etc. I rewrote a lot of the system for a home game I DMed recently (trying to balance out spellcasting with martial classes, giving each class one or two free archetypes, playing with special abilities, etc) and while it did work to balance everything a lot more, it was still a real fuckload of house rules and I'd rather see if it's possible to stick to the core book and only change a class or two.
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Jun 9, 2012 04:51
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CAPSLOCKGIRL posted:Okay, I've thought of a few fixes to help out the Gunslinger class, to help it not suck harder than the Monk (Which is a class I like playing anyway but whatever): Here's how I changed it for my home game (I used an altered AC/DR system, so you can probably ignore that line) pre:Gunslinger: Archetype: Gunslingers get one free archetype, for which they trade out no class abilities. They can take further archetypes as normal. BaB: Average. When using any weapon classified as Firearm, even in melee, their BaB is instead Excellent. (note: Average is Cleric BAB. 'Excellent' is the Iron Heroes Weapon Master BAB, which caps at 25 at level 20) Defense: +4 AC, +1 DR Skills: 4, as normal. Feats: Like all classes, Gunslingers get 1 feat per level. Spells: Gunslingers do not get spells. Abilities: --Gunslingers begin the day with a number of Grit points equal to their Wisdom modifier + ½ level. --All Gunslingers can perform Deeds as if their Gunslinger level was +4. --Whenever a Gunslinger gets a bonus feat, they get both a Combat feat and a Grit feat. --Gunslingers suffer no misfire chance. Anyone using a gunslinger’s chosen weapon suffers double the misfire chance, unless they themselves are a gunslinger, in which case they suffer only the regular misfire chance. --Gunslingers may count their levels as fighter levels for the purposes of taking feats that relate to Firearms. For example, a 4th level gunslinger who has taken Weapon Focus: Musket Axe may take Weapon Specialization: Musket Axe. This ability does not mean a gunslinger gets as many feats as a fighter does at each level. --For the purposes of feats, if a Gunslinger is using a Firearm with a melee component (bayonet on rifle, axe musket, etc), his feats that increase his ranged capability increase his melee capabilities with it as well. An example would be that a Gunslinger with Weapon Specialization: Axe Musket gets a +2 to hit with the axe or the bullet. Additionally, Gunslingers never have to spend Grit to activate the Pistol Whip deed, though they may if they wish, gaining a non-magical +1 to hit and damage for each Grit point spent Note how long this entry is compared to every other non-spellcaster entry. That’s because Gunslinger sucks.
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Jun 16, 2012 08:34
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Yeah, you guys told each other about your characters ahead of time. Granted, I agree with everyone else, but when we used to have Dover Bashes (that's what we called the 'everyone make a level 15 PC and let's FITE!' thing) everyone was secretive as gently caress about everything they were doing.
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Jun 18, 2012 11:23
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Nerds, quick question. Bought the first book of the Skull and Shackles adventure path because, well, gently caress yeah, pirates! However, I feel like other books and maps would be useful. Am I missing any in this list? Pirates of the Inner Sea GameMastery flip mat pirate ship Player's guide to skull and shackles I basically want everything that is going to add to the adventure. Don't care about the price.
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Jun 21, 2012 08:33
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Here's a thing, that is actually somewhat spoilery regarding Skull and Shackles, so I'll try not to be too bad about that. I'm going to be DMing this soon. Everyone's excited to play it, but one of my players plays a wizard. Worse, he plays the wizard the way optimizers tell you to. As in, let's have all of my point buy in INT, then racial stats, then take skill focus enchantment, and then just make everything hostile to us our friends. All of them. This is basically every wizard/cleric/psion he plays. They are ALL THIS GUY. Even in other systems, because even in Mutants and Masterminds or the Hero system, no one really has high mental defenses. Mister Plugg, the main 'antagonist' of the first book is a 5th level fighter. With a will save of +1. By the time the PCs fight him, they'll be 2nd or 3rd level, so my caster's DCs are going to be around 17 or 18 for his spells. He will basically end the fight. Hell, with him charming everyone on board constantly, I don't even know how the game will be challenging since they're supposed to try to win the pirates to their sides. The other antagonists for the first book are either Will +0 or Will -1. Basically fodder for an enchanter. I loving -loathe- this when I'm running, and honestly when I'm playing I don't play casters that do this because it isn't fun, it's just balls out boring. "The ogre charges!" "And now he loves me." "...yey." Basically, we've got a rogue, we've got a gunslinger, and we've likely got a corsair that all want to fight when there's fighting to be done. And I'm really worried this guy is going to just end every combat before it even starts.
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Jun 23, 2012 09:12
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GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:He's actually a pretty nice guy for picking Enchanter instead of Conjurer, as Enchanters leave themselves open to a lot of outs for opponents and DM fiat. If the other three people aren't playing casters, then he's going to outshine them no matter what (especially since they picked those terrible classes). I actually sent an email to the group: Here are the four books for my game. They are the Pirates of the Inner Sea, Freeport Companion, Skull and Shackles Player's Guide, and Blood of Fiends (the tiefling book). Basically, for your character, you have four options for making them: You can use anything from these books. Freeport is not the setting, but it's close and I like a lot of the stuff in this book, so it's fair game. Please don't read the Skull and Shackles adventure books. Also, please note: Making a caster with a bunch of "I end the combat if he can't make this hilarious DC 19 will save at first level" is kind of irritating. If nothing is ever a challenge for the group, I'm going to give less experience for the challenge and start upping the challenges. Not if you do it once or twice, but if it happens every time it's really annoying. The idea of "The ogre charges!" "I make him love me." "...yey." just makes for a boring game on my end because of the wasted time in crafting the encounter, and on every other player's end because if people are playing combat-based characters they don't get to do anything their characters are made for. So Mike, Jon, Nick2 (assuming Rion and Nick1 keep their dudes), please be aware of this. I.e., for example, the main antagonist of the 1st book is a 5th level fighter with a Will save of +1. There is practically nothing he could do against any of you if you tried to charm/sleep/dominate him, and that's kind of boring, considering this is supposed to be the MAIN GUY for the first book. So yeah, please don't be that guy. So I didn't single him out, but I did tell everyone fairly directly. Hopefully it pays off.
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Jun 25, 2012 18:35
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Honestly, I'll likely leave it in. Not because the book is written that way, but because it's good to have a ridiculous challenge every once in a while that puts newbie PCs in their place. My group is a bit too accustomed to being the most badass dudes on the block, and every now and then a big fight lets them realize "Oh, poo poo. maybe I should RUN." Will likely lower the damage a bit, though. The problem I don't think the gunslinger realizes is that blackpower is useless if it gets wet, which can happen really easily on a pirate ship. What do I do about that? For something that doesn't concern Skull and Shackles: We're finishing up the last book of Curse of the Crimson Throne and I want to make a 14th level rogue-y type dude. Ninja/Assassin maybe? Any good ideas/builds for this?
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Jun 26, 2012 11:25
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Friend of mine wants some advice on a 14th level gnome barbarian, basically a former Ravager of Rovagug. Any ideas? I'm bad at barbarians.
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Jun 28, 2012 18:19
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Question: So if the spell is on your list, you can use wands/scrolls of it? Basically, a guy in my group wants to play a fighter with one level of Oracle, and a 10 Charisma, for access to every cleric spell. Is that right?
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Jun 30, 2012 17:41
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Hey, pirate game buddy. I'm about to run Skull and Shackles so I've been looking at this sort of stuff for a long while. I know there's one monster in Stormwrack that's basically like a sea cat, only a wolf instead of cat parts, and it can shift into a human. Make two or three of these guys part of the crew, and have them volunteer for the night watch. When the group's asleep, they start killing the crew and having some of their buddies crawl on board to take the ship! Vampires can't cross open water. But they can seriously gently caress up a boat if their coffin is stored on board. Players never trust super hot women at sea. It's pretty much well set in mythology that they're all evil. So have them encounter a super hot woman and an old man, and let the old man say he's been ensorcelled by her. Turns out, the old man is actually the bad guy. Any number of race/class combinations work here. Baby dragon turtles at 5th level are just about as terrifying as adults would be at 10th level. And with a small boat, they might still have a chance to capsize it, or at least knock it around a little.
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Jul 5, 2012 01:12
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Question involving cavaliers and mounted reach. So, let's say you've got a cavalier pre:x pre:xx xx Now, you're cavalier is using a lance. Lances have reach, so if he was not mounted, he would be doing this sort of number (x is cav, . is no threat, o is threat) pre:..0.. .0.0. o.x.o .0.0. ..0.. pre:..oo.. .o..o. o.xx.o o.xx.0 .0..o. ..oo..
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Jul 16, 2012 06:06
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