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Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

glitchwraith posted:

Wow. I might raise the price of the three core books then, though definitely not that high. It is a used book, after all. I am a bit confused why Amazon.co.uk is charging so much more for it. Amazon.com has it selling brand new for only $54.

You think you got it bad? Amazon.ca has used at CDN$61 and new at CDN$110. Gonna guess Amazon is just full of goddamn chiselers.

Buying these things in Canada retail blows, since, for example, Magic Item Compendium has a suggested retail of US$34.95, and CDN$44.00. When the exchange rate is nearly equal for years, or at worst, US$0.90 per CDN$1, that is a total pissoff. Just wanted to complain about that a bit I guess, since fresh off the press or loving used, you can't get a break here.

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Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer
Well, I am going to be joining a Pathfinder game starting in the near future, and we are starting at level 4. For the most part, people are familiar with the rules, and how things work, so not expecting any trouble there. In fact, a couple people are somewhat fond of the min-max, so my main issue is trying to keep up.

For myself, I am looking at either a Summoner using the Synthesist archetype from Ultimate Magic, or a Witch. I'm pretty well unsure which would be more effective from a mechanical standpoint, as both seem like they would be effective. They both happen to interest me for roleplay reasons, and I could run either without regrets on that front.

Thoughts? Am I missing a better choice? Anything that I should focus on or avoid? I tend towards your Monks or Barbarians or the like, and want to kinda break out of that.

Feeling just the smallest bit indecisive here :ohdear:

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

veekie posted:

Theres also the Fortune+Cackle gimmick but that'd probably get old fast.

Can you stay cackling all day?

No errata I can find says no to cackling all day, if you spend the move action to keep doing it. I've been doing more reading, and thinking about what's been mentioned here.

I was looking more towards mixing it with Evil Eye since it still hits for a round, even if they succeed on the save, and then I can keep extending it. Then, once it hits, and I say reduce saves, then it'll be even easier to drop a Slumber or Misfortune on them. The fact Evil Eye doesn't have a limit on how many times you can hit someone with it in a day gives some more room to play, I think.

And after examining how putting together a Synthesist would work, I find the Witch a simpler choice.

Take Extra Hex to get me all four of those hexes, and then take a look at all the other choices, and find some things that fit. Planning on Halfling for race, since it fits my concept and doesn't seem to hurt the build at all.

I keep looking at metamagic feats, and I keep thinking they don't seem to add up here, for this level. Should I avoid them, or would it be worth my while to take something there?

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

berenzen posted:

Runestone of Power

Basically does the same thing as a pearl of power.

As I recall, Races of the Dragon (yes, Kobold-wanking and all!) had an item that did that, and yeah, it basically worked identically to that Runestone of Power, down to cost and all.

quote:

Also, Spontaneous spellcasters can use Page of Spell Knowledge which is basically gives the spontaneous caster the spell as long as it's in their hand.

This, I didn't know about, and is kinda cool.

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

ShallNoiseUpon posted:

I'm wondering if there is any sort of spreadsheet or printable thing I could use to aid in preparing and keeping track of spells, there seems to be a lot of choices available and referencing the SRD or a book for every day to figure out what spells I want to have seems kind of tedious.

It's more towards the spreadsheet end of things, but working with a Summoner, I've found that the Pathfinder Spellbook app (I use it on Android, no idea if there is an iOS version) works well for reminding me what exists. It tells you where everything is from, has info on spells, and lets you set favourites too. It covers basically every spellcasting class, on top of that. Not really interactive, but handy as a reference!

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Lottery of Babylon posted:

To be fair, the Synthesist really is broken as hell. It's essentially a gestalt Fighter+Sorcerer on a 60-point buy. The fact that the base Summoner class is even better says more about the Summoner than about the Synthesist.

I'd love to see a Synthesist base class of some sort, built to focus on the eidolon part more, and other summoning less.

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Andrast posted:

The Aegis from Ultimate Psionics is similar and really fun. You create an astral suit using your mind and modify it with a point system like an eidolon. It's also, you know, actually balanced.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis

Looks like what I wanted, thank you! Psionics is always the answer :colbert:

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer
Word for word, its pretty much the same in 5th edition too. Not a shock to anyone, but more a bit of an indictment on lazy designing as it seems to dominate the Paizo and WotC teams now.

What would really begin fixing this, though, if anything could?

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

gradenko_2000 posted:

The solution is that when you as a designer are asked about how something works in your game, the response should be "xyz is how it works", adding on "per the rules" at the end of your statement if it was covered in the rules, or clarifying that perhaps you didn't word the rules well enough if it didn't.

It's already a given that players are free and welcome to disregard any rule that they don't like, but it's crucial that a game always have a ready response to any rules question that a player might have during the time when they don't yet know any better. You can't form an opinion on whether or not you can disregard any given rule if it's not clear what the official ruling is in the first place, so the book or the designer should always be willing to give you a straight answer.

Sure, but I meant less "what should they be doing?" and more "what will get heads out of asses and into doing things right?"

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer
Point three seems to suggest to me that, hey, maybe Pathfinder or a D&D based game isn't what your DM actually wants to run. I've been working on a setup for a game with a similar background of "hey, you guys are going to a dangerous new land of who knows what, where exploration and various personal goals will be driving factors, and you need to make sure you can handle all sorts of anything" and I am kind of blanking on what system would do worse on it.

Point two is probably the most reasonable thing out of the whole mess, and even then how he put it is a bit weird. Wanting to block obvious derails is fine, but then being great with intra-player conflict happening undercuts that. So, who knows what the goal is here, without getting more info?

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Kilo147 posted:

So I'm having trouble finding a mini that doesn't suck. Either the arms and weapons are part of the main body and far beyond my modeling ability to remove, it's in heavy plate mail and is obviously evil as gently caress, or the sculpt is just bad.

I did however find a comedy option. Found a WWII Paratrooper mini in 28mm that has the same jacket, similar boots, and the same backpack as I have. Doing a pretty simple headswap, adding in a western style hat that I looted from an Alchemist wearing Imrijka's hat in my first module, and I'd have a drat near spot on mini of myself on the table while I'm sitting at the table.

Besides the comedy option, any ideas for a Male Human Fighter with a polearm?

If it works and it fits, I wouldn't call it a comedy option.

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

I've gotten tired of one of the players in my group and talking to him has done nothing to mitigate it. It doesn't matter what character he plays, they're always super violent and assholes to people in game. Not to mention only expressing interest in something after I have expressed interest it first. Example; in Hell's Rebels we found an imp who was bound by a contract with someone who was dead. Our GM tells us we can either destroy the contract and free it, or bind it to ourselves with a new contract as a familiar. This player says he's not interested in keeping it since he already had a familiar. I think it would be cool, since I am a tiefling, but I couldn't take a familiar until later. Our GM starts to discuss working around that until I could when dipshit yells "never mind, I'll take it".

Now that I think about it, every single one of his characters always acts like an rear end in a top hat to my characters and only my characters. Again, our group has tried to discuss this with him, but he just ignores it pretty much. If we kicked him out, he and his coworker, who is not an rear end in a top hat, would leave and we'd only have three people and a GM for our games. It really sucks, because I'm starting to not want to play just because he's playing, but then I'd have nothing to do. :smith:

No gaming is better than bad gaming. If everyone has sat and talked, aside from peeling the decent coworker off, what else can you do?

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Ash Rose posted:

Traits and Archetypes are new I think, and those definitely add complexity. Not too sure what was or was not in 3.5, but are all these alternate race options new? and favored class bonuses?

Not trying to be coy, I never really played 3.5 much so I am not 100% sure what was in it or not.

Favoured class bonuses existed in 3.5: they were the class whose level you ignored when calculating if you had an xp penalty for having classes too far apart. So a human that picked fighter, which is a Fighter 12/Ranger 3 was fine, as was a Fighter 10/Bard 3/Sorcerer 3. However, a Fighter 7/Wizard 5/Rogue 1? Get ready for some penalties to xp till you close it up. And the more classes you add in, the worse the penalty gets!

So your bonus was less of a kick in the face for doing dips. New system is better.

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer
I've been reading the last few pages, which had some good talk about more skilled characters.

We'll be starting our own Kingmaker game soon, and so far we have a Cleric who is going to add Sorcerer and go Mystic Theurge, a Paladin going for Warrior of the Holy Nimbus and focusing on tower shields and UMD, and a second Paladin who is more plain with some sort of two-handing going on (if there is an archetype considered I don't know it). (The Theurge is of Nethys, the Paladins both of Iomedae)

So, a goddamn mess of stuff. I am honestly conflicted on what to even make here. My initial idea was a Knife Master Rogue, slapping Scout on it later, and just fill in the skill holes left by this mess while trying to bring some extra damage in, but... can I do better? Like, the main gap in this here seems to be maybe a ranged combatant, and definitely a skill-user.

I'm fairly limited in what I can freely use: Core, Advanced Players Guide (no Summoners or Oracles), Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat (no Gunslingers), and the Kingmaker player stuff of course. Other stuff outside of those is possible but ideally minimized as it just makes for a bigger ask. If a class or archetype poached stuff from the aforementioned classes, odds are decent it would work fine.

I have considered Alchemists, Ninjas, an Inquisitor to fit this turbo-religion kick that's going, and the Guide Ranger, among other stuff, and I am really unsure what would compliment this hot mess. I just don't know what will support this clusterfuck and while the adventure paths tend to be tuned pretty easy, I don't want to just slap whatever poo poo into place, and I am lost.

So now I am kinda looking for alternate ideas or suggestions or even if people push the same thing at me, because I am just stuck here and can't seem to work myself out of that hole.

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer
I had thought I was thorough on giving info but I forgot to mention the point buy is 35(!) points so yeah MAD stuff shouldn't be any real issue.

SweetBro posted:

If you're not playing in the type of group that would throw an autistic bitch fit about giving up alchemy and not being optimal, the Majordomo archtype for Investigator seems to fill the missing gap in the party as well as fitting well into what I understand the Kingmaker setting to be.


If ANYONE in the group was likely to flip like that, it'd be me, and I give far too few fucks to ever do so. The nerdherd I run with is many things, but optimizer isn't really one of them (in d20 games anyway). Majordomo looks rather interesting, especially since it seems to fit in so well. I am imagining some sort of combat butler going on here, which while an old gimmick isn't one I have used in a game yet.

Eldritch Archer Magus seems a good fit too, more than the base Magus is. The basic gimmick at play there to my knowledge is still basically "Shocking Grasp and metamagic every cast and every day, unless its immune to electricity" more or less, right? Even at range I'm not sure that'd change much.

I'm looking at the Unchained Rogue and thinking that it's pretty nifty. The skill unlocks seem a little fiddly and a lot of poo poo to keep track of conditionally, how does it work out in play having 8-10 of them to track per 5 levels we go?

Ninja I am still holding I think as my solid backup option if all else fails, here.

I really do appreciate all the advice and suggestions though, I hadn't even known about half of these archetypes!

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Leraika posted:

I think you use snowball instead of shocking grasp if you're ranged, but I honestly know between poo poo and all about the magus.

I just re-read the Eldritch Archer and hadn't noticed till now that instead of "touch" spells it goes for all ones that call for a "ranged attack" and I am still kinda impressed with that. I'll need to figure out the gimmick there.

Gonna send off the list and see what gets greenlit!

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Subjunctive posted:

I'm thinking about applying to a PF game, but I've never played before. I have D&D 5 experience and a single session of 4, which I liked well enough.

I am daunted by the sheer amount of material in the ecosystem, which I don't expect to master in time for this campaign. If I were interested in playing a tactical/control sort of character, what should I be looking at such that I don't embarrass myself utterly (or, worse, hold the party back)? I value out-of-combat flexibility, fwiw.

Assuming you have no real limit in terms of what you can use, including 3rd party stuff, stuff from Path of War comes highly recommended and is solid and good.

Limited to Paizo stuff, the simplest and easiest (in a certain way) is to make a Wizard or Arcanist and specialize in buff and terrain control spells. Boost your pals, deploy pits and walls and webs and poo poo all over the place to lock stuff down for your martials, revel in never having saving throws be an issue. Control casters like that are almost never useless even if you gently caress up all over, unless you decide that you are gonna dump your casting stat and not prepare any spells for the day or the like.

As a bonus, its still a full caster who can pop scrolls and wands and the like without effort (and make them too!) and being able to cast all sorts of spells on command means you are never remotely useless.

In terms of something less castery, I am far less sure what to recommend. I ended up going with the Majordomo Investigator for my Kingmaker game that we just started, which is more of a fairly weak tactical character. Loads of skill utility with Inspiration, but the Delegate feature sharing teamwork feats is not doing me many favours so far (mainly that 30 foot radius to start sharing...). An Alchemist or an Investigator would likely help out a lot more on filling in buffs and healing and blasting stuff down, while keeping a lot of skillpoints on hand to fill whatever skill niches you want.

Within Paizo stuff, I am not sure at all in terms of a useful control/tactical character that isn't a caster at all. Hopefully someone else can help with that!

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer
Minor update on my Majordomo Investigator in the Kingmaker game we just started a couple sessions ago!

It turns out that Delegate is awful with my group because our Mystic Theurge-wannabe is allergic to being within 50 feet of enemies, and our two Paladins are fickle in if they feel like doing melee or ranged combat at any given time. Turns out that Escape Route was agreed to both be the best choice I could have made of all the available ones, and yet mostly worthless because fellow players basically never are in a position to interact with it. Who would have thought that a party with three (more or less) melee characters would be worthless at getting into melee?

:negative:

In better news, I am the one who keeps stabbing bosses and badasses to death (its easy when you are the main one up front half the time), and Inspiration means that I manage to get more of those important skill rolls passed (as well as a couple attacks, Extra Inspiration is likely the only "Extra X" feat I would take at 1st level due to that utility).

We hit level 2, so its thin with Poison Lore and Poison Resistance, but I am thinking level 3 should do a lot more for me when I can do untrained Knowledge checks (everything is a drat Knowledge check...). I'm mostly thinking I'd spend the feat then to get an Investigator Talent, as I normally won't get one till level 13.

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

SweetBro posted:

Paladins that lack the testicular fortitude to engage in glorious melee combat against the heretic scum? Forget investigator, start taking levels in Inquisitor, call yourself a Commissar, and begin execute them for cowardice.

But how can a true :commissar: have a History... of Heresy!?

They usually manage to get into melee... sometimes. Hell, it could happen any Iomedae now, really (I also make really awful puns involving their gods name as revenge, and no, the awful puns started AFTER the cowardice).

Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

gradenko_2000 posted:

(also if all this info-posting is getting annoying, please tell me and I'll dial it down)

By all means, keep posting these; it's good info!

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Karatela
Sep 11, 2001

Clickzorz!!!


Grimey Drawer

Caros posted:

I gathered that, yeah. I meant that the spell list when I look at say, Magic Missile, or Mage Armor, doesn't specify a power source. Meaning that if I'm flipping through the spell list and I want to know who can cast a power I have to go back to the index, find the correct spell level and check on each list to see who gets it.

Ah yes, the D&D 5e method of formatting: don't bother saying what can use a spell or power, just jam them all in there and then make people go back and forth constantly because that's totally good practices and not unforgivably shamefully lazy layout and publishing.

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