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Countblanc posted:am i misunderstanding or is this just how you could describe every piece of fiction? aren't all characters "the fault of the writers"? korra isn't a real person. or do you mean like, it could be a problem of directors or meddling execs? Mostly it comes across to me that the writers didn't know what they were doing sometimes. In other words they thought they were writing Korra as having just screwed up but taking a step back and looking at the whole picture it comes off as they wrote her as incompetent which I don't think was the point because that would be weird. And Rand is right, she gets beat up a lot. Whether or not to an unseemly degree I leave for the reader to judge but I kind of lean towards yes. As to the graphic novels my favorite one is Azula on her own, not even able to run a cell of dedicated Ozai loyalists because she fundamentally doesn't understand people because nobody in her life ever tried to understand her.
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Mar 10, 2024 02:34
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Korra suffers badly from what TV Tropes calls the Worf Effect - we're told from the beginning that Korra is a tough, badass fighter and bending prodigy, so when she's beaten it's supposed to be a huge, dangerous threat. But the writers rely on this trope so heavily that Korra just keeps getting beaten over and over again - and to make matters worse, because one of her primary character traits is "fight first think later," she just ends up looking like a giant chump. Which is not a great place for our main character to be!
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Mar 10, 2024 03:19
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i seem to recall either an effort post here or a video essay that said while yes Korra is an Avatar of Ls, she had like 4 paradigm shift historical events during her life. her younger than mid 20s life. like yeah a bunch of sub optimal stuff, but atleast the metaphysics of reality didnt unravel
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Mar 10, 2024 03:34
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On the topic of Avatar fanworks, one of my favorite fanfics Reign of The Fire Lady Dowager updated today, it's really good
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Mar 10, 2024 04:04
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Countblanc posted:am i misunderstanding or is this just how you could describe every piece of fiction? aren't all characters "the fault of the writers"? korra isn't a real person. or do you mean like, it could be a problem of directors or meddling execs? I believe they're just saying that "screwing up and learning a lesson from it" can be good writing but doing that plot too many times makes the character look incompetent and that's bad writing. mycot posted:I don't know why everybody's pitches for a new Avatar writes out bending. Bending and it being a common mundane part of the setting is a huge part of what made the show appealing and unique, bending becoming some kind of Xmen or Harry Potter secret talent would blow. I think a lot of people write it out because the further into the future things go the less "magical" bending feels. Like, Korra got into industrialization and you have people lightning-bending (which was supposed to be like, super high level stuff iirc) to run a drat power plant like its a boring 9 to 5 and more steampunk tech like people making mech suits and poo poo. So people assume that the further into the future things get the more irrelevant bending becomes. And yeah it doesn't have to be that way, you just have to think of more creative ways bending can evolve, but a lot of folks have trouble with that. Also a lot of people don't want to see fantasy turn into sci-fi. It's just a matter of preference. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 04:34
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TwoPair posted:I believe they're just saying that "screwing up and learning a lesson from it" can be good writing but doing that plot too many times makes the character look incompetent and that's bad writing. I think that's a perfectly fine idea for a character arc, and it works for what Korra is going for IMO.
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Mar 10, 2024 05:08
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Yeah, the problem is when a character is written with the idea of having certain traits but doesn't actually display whose traits enough to be convincing to the audience who doesn't just take it for granted. Star Trek TNG had that problem a lot, not just with Worf. (Was even an active effort in DS9 to let Worf actually kick some rear end) The result ends up jarring to an audience with an actual memory, too busy subverting the supposed status quo to actually establish said status quo in the first place, and it robs the show of a lot of impact as a result. One of the major problems with the Star Wars sequels, for example. In short, it's why they have the rule 'Show, don't tell'. And why James Bond and Batman have cold openings with usually unrelated villains getting their asses kicked. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 05:52
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Again, a lot of the issues in Korra stem from the disjointed writing and planning of the seasons, constantly worrying if this season is the only one to write a complete story. If they had actually gotten the order for all 4 seasons from the start instead of getting only 1 season, then another one, then 2 seasons, then Korra wouldn't be having nearly as many problems as it does now.
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Mar 10, 2024 06:16
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TwoPair posted:I believe they're just saying that "screwing up and learning a lesson from it" can be good writing but doing that plot too many times makes the character look incompetent and that's bad writing. Bending so integrated into society makes is difficult to really imagine how it'd make technology evolve where fire and electricity can be summoned on demand at decent amounts per person, both of which were the major driving forces in our world's industrial revolution. For all we know, but the time the next Avatar comes around, technology has stagnated to some degree. The dynamics with this technology are interesting on their own as they're mostly fueled by firebenders sending up power and earthbenders manipulating raw material. Water and airbenders don't exactly have much of a purpose other than maybe moving water and steam around so even amongst benders, there may still be imbalances that can become leveraged
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Mar 10, 2024 06:16
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I just hope they don't introduce aliens into the Avatar universe.
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Mar 10, 2024 06:18
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In my mind, bending in the future doesn't become more rare, but it does become highly specialized, like maybe in the far flung future it gets as specific as like... siliconbenders manufacturing computer chips, copperbender electricians, etc, and the whole distinction between the four elements becomes fuzzier and fuzzier as people start intermixing more and more, to the point that their fundamental abilities to manipulate earth/fire/wind/water aren't as developed.
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Mar 10, 2024 06:38
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Mraagvpeine posted:I just hope they don't introduce aliens into the Avatar universe. 'Spirits'
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Mar 10, 2024 06:45
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Argue posted:In my mind, bending in the future doesn't become more rare, but it does become highly specialized, like maybe in the far flung future it gets as specific as like... siliconbenders manufacturing computer chips, copperbender electricians, etc, and the whole distinction between the four elements becomes fuzzier and fuzzier as people start intermixing more and more, to the point that their fundamental abilities to manipulate earth/fire/wind/water aren't as developed. This is just Mistborn.
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Mar 10, 2024 06:54
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This conversation did remind me of possibly the most forgotten aspect of ATLA, the super advanced transforming steampunk tanks.
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Mar 10, 2024 06:59
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e: poo poo wrong thread
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Mar 10, 2024 07:03
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Mraagvpeine posted:I hope they introduce aliens into the Avatar universe.
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Mar 10, 2024 07:04
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But if you're going to do that poo poo you need to go all-in. I want to see somebody bend the moon at the flagship of the galactic armada.
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Mar 10, 2024 07:07
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readingatwork posted:But if you're going to do that poo poo you need to go all-in. I want to see somebody bend the moon at the flagship of the galactic armada. Tengen Toppa Gurren Avatar where they have to fight the Anti-Bender aliens
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Mar 10, 2024 07:34
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I'm not sure the world of Avatar is constructed solidly enough to make a lot of the before and after of the main story make much sense in terms of general human development and sciences, especially when you add superpowers that only some individuals have access to for reasons that are really unclear, despite spirituality supposedly being an aspect but it's also a "you're just born with it or not" thing.
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Mar 10, 2024 08:23
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Unless you're an Airbender.
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Mar 10, 2024 10:49
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Unless you're an Airbender. Yeah, that always felt a bit weird. Why do they need to spiritualize themselves for that, when everyone else does not? That was always the part Korra had such problems with. Kiyoshi book spoiler: Her mother was a really explicit case of that. She started as an airbender and even got her tattoos. Later on in life became a criminal instead. This sapped her powers so much that she came up with those fans to support her fighting style.
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Mar 10, 2024 11:06
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Given that one of the main things in Korra was the spirit world merging with the mortal world, I figure a series set a couple of generations later would basically just be Shadowrun.
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Mar 10, 2024 13:01
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I always figured eventually we'd get some sort of paradigm shift where everybody was some sort of bender.
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Mar 10, 2024 15:48
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cant cook creole bream posted:Yeah, that always felt a bit weird. Why do they need to spiritualize themselves for that, when everyone else does not? That was always the part Korra had such problems with. Doesn't Zaheer's whole deal kinda disprove the need for spirituality? Motherfucker masters airbending and he don't need to visit the temples or stick to a vegetarian diet, or any of the other Buddhism-adjacent things the Nomads did
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Mar 10, 2024 16:23
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Despite liking season 3 a lot I cannot actually remember how they take care of Zaheer. I remember him learning how to fly after his girlfriend's head blows up, but can't remember anything past that.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:41
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Neeksy posted:I'm not sure the world of Avatar is constructed solidly enough to make a lot of the before and after of the main story make much sense in terms of general human development and sciences, especially when you add superpowers that only some individuals have access to for reasons that are really unclear, despite spirituality supposedly being an aspect but it's also a "you're just born with it or not" thing. Yeah, while not as bad as some settings a lot about Avatar's worldbuilding works okay as presented but really doesn't lend itself to in-depth exploration or trying to apply major analysis to it. That said, if you do... one thing I do like about the setting is that while Bending styles seem to be associated with certain cultures, civilizations and/or geographical locations, they have plenty of diversity within them. Water Tribes specifically exist at both poles with major cultural differences, the Fire Nation even despite being nominally a monocultured empire has Ember Island and the Sun Warriors, the Air Nomads had four different temples implying some quite different lifestyles, and the Earth Kingdoms are openly the most diverse of the four to the point of even less nominally having a central authority at all. Could go the opposite way around, turns out going into space supercharges Bending and they colonise different planets. Maybe I just have too fond memories of War Planets/Shadow Raiders.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, while not as bad as some settings a lot about Avatar's worldbuilding works okay as presented but really doesn't lend itself to in-depth exploration or trying to apply major analysis to it. This is just making me think of G Gundam, but with Bending.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:24
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Aces High posted:Doesn't Zaheer's whole deal kinda disprove the need for spirituality? Motherfucker masters airbending and he don't need to visit the temples or stick to a vegetarian diet, or any of the other Buddhism-adjacent things the Nomads did No, he was on an intensely spiritual philosophical journey. He just followed a different religion, which may or may not be a cute little reference to the intense debate between Buddhists and Taoists over who invented Baguazhang (the real-world martial art that airbending is based on).
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Mar 10, 2024 17:58
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Electric Phantasm posted:This is just making me think of G Gundam, but with Bending. The Tequila Bender
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Mar 10, 2024 18:14
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Electric Phantasm posted:This is just making me think of G Gundam, but with Bending. I redact all my previous posts saying going further with Avatar is a bad idea, I will accept this now.
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Mar 10, 2024 18:19
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Ccs posted:When I rewatched Korra a couple years ago, book 2 wasn't as bad as I remembered. It was still a big misstep and I'm glad season 3 basically redeemed the whole show. But it wasn't as much of a chore as it felt when I watched it as it first aired. Faith Erin Hicks is a really good writer and you all should probably check out The Nameless City trilogy by her. It's basically just Avatar without the bending.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:11
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I've seen this suggestion before, but given the tech levels that already exist in Korra, skipping ahead that far would put the series pretty solidly into outright sci-fi or post apocalypse territory. Which could be cool and have a lot of potential, but it would be pretty far departure for the series. Not necessarily. Hello Future Me had a pretty good video on it, but, basically, we kind of underestimate Avatar's tech level because we mainly follow the non-industrialized nations during Avatar. The Fire Nation underwent the Industrial Revolution somewhere around 50 years before the 100 year war. By the time we see the 1920s tech level in Korra, it is 210 years later, roughly, as Korra occurs 70s years after the end of the 100 year war. The Fire Nation clearly exported their science and technology under Zuko, thus leading to the other nations catching up. We also focus on Republic City which is a new city that didn't have the clutter of the old to hold it back. The thing is, the industrial revolution happened in 1760 to 1820. It actually took the world of Avatar 50 years LONGER to reach an equivalent of our 1920 era of technology. The drill, of course, throws a ramrod right into that, though. Covok fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 22:31
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Overanalyzing Avatar guy (who imo generally has good takes) released his overview of the first episode of the live action series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEleUeULWCw And his overall series review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9UeCJgiGLA If you haven't watched his channel before it's pretty good, goes really in depth about what makes the original show work. And in this case, what doesn't work as well in the new show. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 23:59
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Covok posted:Not necessarily. Hello Future Me had a pretty good video on it, but, basically, we kind of underestimate Avatar's tech level because we mainly follow the non-industrialized nations during Avatar. The Fire Nation underwent the Industrial Revolution somewhere around 50 years before the 100 year war. By the time we see the 1920s tech level in Korra, it is 210 years later, roughly, as Korra occurs 70s years after the end of the 100 year war. The Fire Nation clearly exported their science and technology under Zuko, thus leading to the other nations catching up. We also focus on Republic City which is a new city that didn't have the clutter of the old to hold it back. There's a strong implication that the Avatar world's technology development is strongly affected by bending, since it's basically a form of magic that a decent minority of the population has access to with known and quantifiable traits, and themselves being techniques and styles that can be taught and analysed, and lets them skip some steps by our standards and have reliable bending-powered devices, enjoying the utility of them before they eventually develop a substitute for the bending, and probably learning all kinds of new things along the way. Funny thing is that means it probably took so long to develop the hot-air balloon because without any living Airbenders to work with, the inventor has a skip a step in his world's version of the scientific method and work mostly from first principles, and whatever he could glean second-hand from Airbender artifacts.
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Mar 11, 2024 03:29
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Overanalyzing Avatar guy (who imo generally has good takes) released his overview of the first episode of the live action series. Yeah I really like this guy's videos. I never would have seen what was going on with the comics without them. Although I'm kinda bummed he stopped doing the Korra review videos to focus on the live action Avatar reviews for a while cause I already know what I think of live action Avatar and want to hear his takes on Korra.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:49
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Off the subject, Gumball is apparently getting a movie this year: https://thedirect.com/article/amazing-world-of-gumball-movie-2024-release-official Also the second season of the Tiny Toons reboot has started as well, is it any better than the first?
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Mar 11, 2024 17:00
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I didn't even know there was a first
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Mar 11, 2024 17:09
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I didn't even know there was a first It’s been mentioned in this thread before but yeah, it came out last year. It’s…passable at best https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Toons_Looniversity
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Mar 11, 2024 17:17
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Larryb posted:Off the subject, Gumball is apparently getting a movie this year: Huh I remember that was announced a while back, I just figured it was scrapped with the Zaslav-pocalypse. Still, neat. Gumball's definitely one of the smartest/funniest cartoons to come out in years.
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Mar 11, 2024 17:54
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TwoPair posted:Huh I remember that was announced a while back, I just figured it was scrapped with the Zaslav-pocalypse. Still, neat. Gumball's definitely one of the smartest/funniest cartoons to come out in years. If you follow animators on Twitter, at least a couple of them have started working on the (still aways) Season 7. It looks like the movie itself is done since it was shown at Annecy, they might be waiting til they have episodes in the can to fully premiere it.
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Mar 12, 2024 02:17
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