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The balance of the evidence seems to point to the Bloody Nine being a supernatural entity that possesses Logen. For instance, the B9 fought the Feared, literally a super-human demigod aided by a witch, to a standstill. We also know for a fact that Logen has something supernatural about him that gives him the spirit-talking ability, which may be circumstantial, but its still a hint. On the other hand, you could argue that the B9 is a non-supernatural entity, such as a second personality resulting from Logan being mentally ill, and his other supernatural abilities being unrelated to the B9. In this scenario, Logen just happens to be abnormally strong (even for his size, and Logen is a huge dude), but its only when he turns into the B9 that he unleashes his full potential by pushing his body to his absolutely limits and ignoring pain, leaving his body a total wreck when he gets back to his normal self. I actually like this interpretation better, but do think Abercrombie probably intended the possession theory to be the factual one. In any case, if you're into the death of the author and all, feel free to interpret it as you wish, since it doesnt really make a difference in terms of impacting the rest of the story. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 05:15
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Oh Snapple! posted:I think it's less that and more that people really, really want Logen to be personally responsible for every single bad thing he has ever done so that it's easier to blame him when he falls into old habits, and for some reason being mentally ill makes this easier to do compared to the guy being possessed. As one of the people who likes the mental illness interpretation (although I acknowledge that possession is more likely), its not about blaming Logen, but rather that the idea of mental illness is more relateable.
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Feb 2, 2014 02:53
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Smellem Sexbad posted:Just what mental illness is he meant to have exactly? Multiple-personality disorder would be the most likely suspect, and also Abercrombie isn't trying to make a commentary on mental illness, so no need to to get your feathers ruffled.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:05
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adebisi lives posted:Yea I mean you see people with multiple personality disorder do this kind of stuff in real life too, makes perfect sense. Did you forget the part where these are fantasy books?
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Feb 3, 2014 01:09
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Above Our Own posted:Oh please. People bend over backwards to try and find reasons why his thing is a mental disorder and when someone makes the valid point that there are no real mental disorders that fit what Logen does you say "B-BUT it's just fantasy!" What are you talking about? I stated over and over in my posts that I think posession is the better explanation, but that I also understand the appeal of the multiple personality theory. I dont think Abercrombie meant to involve mental illness at all. Please stop jumping at imaginary arguments.
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Feb 3, 2014 19:04
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Above Our Own posted:What? I'm criticizing your counterpoint made literally two posts ago for being out of context. You really shouldn't be confused by this. Above Our Own posted:Oh please. People bend over backwards to try and find reasons why his thing is a mental disorder and when someone makes the valid point that there are no real mental disorders that fit what Logen does you say "B-BUT it's just fantasy!" I never argued that the mental disorder theory is correct (in fact, I said the opposite), so what are you going on about?
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Feb 3, 2014 23:43
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Above Our Own posted:What the gently caress dude. Yes, and I stand by that, because they ARE fantasy books and not meant to be realistic, so a person who chooses to interpret Logen as mentally ill can do that despite the situation not being medically accurate. I dont know how to break it to you, but authors often exaggerate things in fiction, so if someone chooses to believe that thats what Abercrombie did, I wouldn't hold it against them, even though I dont agree.
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Feb 4, 2014 00:16
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Jeffrey posted:I kind of assumed he wasn't B9 for any of the duels in which he left the other person alive, but I guess he had to have been to fight with the spear through him. Anyone have the passage handy where he describes that? One explanation could be that the hold of the B9 over Logen gets weaker as each period of "posession" drags on and the B9 slakes some of his thirst for violence. So when a fight goes on long enough Logen can regain control from the B9 if he chooses to. During the duels, Logen's opponents like Three-Trees or Grim who hurt Logen to the point of bringing out the B9 were also skilled enough to stay alive long enough for Logen to regain some semblance of control and spare them once he won. Sometimes, like when Logen kills Tul-Duru the person in question just happens to be unlucky enough to get within the B9's reach before Logen becomes himself gain. gninjagnome posted:Well, yeah - that's the point. By the end of Red Country he has re-embraced the violence. If he never wants be the Bloody Nine again he could, but he's choosing that life because unpossessed him likes it. Well he returns to violence only after being forced to (the kidnapping of the kids). Him saying he missed it and such is just an indication of his ongoing addiction to violence, but the steps he took to avoid it leading up to the events of Red Country are certainly praiseworthy, and show that he not only wants to, but is capable of changing. If his kids werent kidnapped he would have gone on living as the peaceful, cowardly Lamb, regardless of his inner turmoil. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 23:21
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Chomposaur posted:I thought his big turning point was after that whole long quest where he takes Jezal under his wing, has a thing with Ferro, starts thinking maybe he doesn't have to be the Bloody Nine... then gets back to the city and promptly heads back to war again. I don't remember the entire context of that decision, but I don't think there was anything forcing him. I was talking the events of Red Country, because thats when we see him make a real effort to become a peaceful man by sacrificing his ego. During the main trilogy Logen tries to be a good person, but learns that for him thats impossible to do while remaining involved in violent affairs. Its only in Red Country that Logen actually tries to distance himself from violence, which works pretty well up to the point of the kidnapping.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:02
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TOOT BOOT posted:I finished the main 3 book series and it was pretty good but the tail end of it left an extremely bad taste in my mouth. I'm okay with dark and gritty but loving over most of the cast in the last 100 pages didn't work for me. A number of characters got shafted, but for the most part it seemed to flow naturally from the narrative. The only one that seemed really out of nowhere was West getting magic radiation poisoning.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:31
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radlum posted:Just finished the first book, I enjoyed it and now I'm buying the rest of the trilogy. Still, I really hope Jezal and Ardee become less annoying in the following books because I really wanted both of them to die in a fire in most of Jezal's chapters (Glokta and Logen are cool, though) You may want to stay out of the thread until you've at least finished the trilogy as the spoilers are starting to come pretty fast and loose. Also as far as Bayaz is concerned he isn't good or evil in the traditional sense. Rather he is completely amoral, which could potentially be benevolent under some circumstances, but in the context of the story manifests as evil. This is my sense of what Abercrombie means when he talks about good and evil being relative; not that people cant be one or the other, but rather that other people's perception of those same people can change depending on the circumstances. In reality, you never really know whats going on inside of someone's head or why they do something, you can only perceive the physical consequences and how that affects the lives of others Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 17:19
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docbeard posted:I have an even simpler theory. Maybe Logen is a lot older than he appears (and realizes). CRAZY SPECULATION FUN TIME! So this whole time I was thinking in terms of Logen being the real man and the Bloody-Nine being the spirit/split-personality that sometimes takes control of him. But what if the Bloody Nine was the original personality of the man we know as Logen, and gradually took on the personality of Logen as he struggles to become a better man, repressing his old self? Doesnt really jive with the story from Logen's childhood, but who knows how much his memory has distorted throughout his life! ^^^^^^ What if he aged because he was distancing himself from violence and repressing the Bloody-Nine? Maybe being possessed/taken over acts as some kind of physical revitalization. Edit: I know this is all nonsense, but its fun to throw around wild speculations! Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 08:06
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docbeard posted:Yeah, this exactly. Bethod's as complicated as anyone else in this series, basically. Then again, Black Dows words sound a bit hollow given that he speaks them as he is betraying the man he owes his life to. He is probably putting a certain spin on things as he is trying to justify his own actions.
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Mar 31, 2014 21:36
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:As for West, I completely disagree that he was a bad person. The regicide was more than justified and if not entirely an accident, certainly not premeditated. He punched his sister out once, not regularly. What appeared in the story was the first time, and then he avoided her out of guilt, shame, and fear that he'd do it again until he died. In every other instance, he was fair in all his dealings, thoughtful to people under his command or social status and on multiple occasions stood up for them when he had absolutely nothing to gain from doing so. He was a mostly-selfless and kind person with clinically significant anger issues. I'm not saying that beating his sister is in any way justifiable, but it's literally the only way he wasn't a classic hero in a hosed-up world. Totally agree about West, he wasnt perfect, but he was easily the most decent person out of the whole male cast. And since when is regicide necessarily a bad thing? Kings suck, deal with it monarchists.
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Sep 29, 2014 22:21
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Boing posted:Thanks, that sounds good. I'll keep at it and wait until later to be impressed! I would avoid this thread at least until you've finished the main trilogy. Its been long enough that the spoilers are coming fast and loose in here.
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Oct 10, 2014 13:03
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The OP has just about all the information someone needs to decide whether to read the books or not. Just add a warning at the end of the OP that there are spoilers in the thread, and that you should not read it until you finish the books if you want to avoid them.
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Oct 23, 2014 11:07
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Damo posted:Yeah, these books are great. I wish I had read them sooner. Just make sure you stay out of the thread until you finish the trilogy. Theres a lot of moments you definitely don't want to be spoiled for you.
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Nov 25, 2014 15:47
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coyo7e posted:West is pretty hosed up in the head. If beating the hell out of your sister is the most realistic and logical version of the everyman to you, welp. Did he actually "beat the hell" out of her though? As I recall he smacked her once before walking away and felt pretty horrible about it.
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Nov 30, 2014 01:29
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John Charity Spring posted:The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch has a similar vibe although I've only read the first book of those. I really liked it, but I've heard the quality drops off after that - thankfully it stands alone pretty well. I can definitely second the Locke Lamore books recommendation. The later books dont drop off in quality, they just have a slightly different theme every time. The first book is essentially a heist/revenge film, the second is swashbuckling navy action, and the third is about electioneering. This leads some people to like certain books more than others depending on their taste. The main characters are always great throughout though. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 11:41
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I actually really liked the first couple of Malazan books, but had to stop around book 5 or 6 as the series turned into a Saturday-morning cartoon.Braking Gnus posted:The third one actually came out? Last I had heard the author went nuts and it was never happening. Have to add that to my list now. Came out last year, and the manuscript for the next one is apparently also just about finished. Lynch had a serious bout of clinical depression resulting in the long delay of book 3, but it seems he is being treated and is doing much better now. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 16:04
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Mars4523 posted:I liked Red Country as well as BSC, but I can be a sappy fool sometimes. And Glama Golden realizing just who he was fighting was perfect. I dont remember, but was Glama a giant rear end in a top hat or something in The Heroes? Becasue I felt pretty bad for him in Red Country.
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Feb 10, 2015 13:44
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ulmont posted:He's not described real positively. To be fair, being vain and maybe poisoning some chieftain is practically sainthood in Abercrombie's world.
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Feb 10, 2015 22:15
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ulmont posted:You have to be realistic about these things. I read it more as that people can change themselves but cannot escape their own pasts as the inertia of everything they've done keeps pulling them in the same direction despite their own efforts to change course. Change is possible, but when it comes to a life of violence, its is only doable by the total abandonment and destruction of the person you were, which was what got Logen the few years of peace between the events of TFL and Red Country. "Blood gets you nothing but more blood. It follows me now, always, like my shadow, and like my shadow I can never be free of it." Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 17, 2015 |
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Apr 17, 2015 14:27
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RCarr posted:The Heroes, Red Country, and the Shattered Sea series would all adapt well to the screen. A jacked Josh Brolin.
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Jan 27, 2016 13:29
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Ornamented Death posted:Man if you're paying that much, you should be getting a signed copy. Already out of stock, gently caress.
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May 11, 2016 16:01
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Just a quick public service announcement that for some reason the hardcover version of Sharp Ends is on amazon right for about the same price as the paperback (in Germany its even cheaper than the paperback!), and its legit as I just received my hardcover copy with the nice UK cover for only 12 Euros and change.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:35
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