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His Purple Majesty posted:Which is why we need to make sure that all crimes are punished swiftly and harshly with out discrimination based on race or social class. You have 10 seconds to comply.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:52
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Vahakyla posted:gently caress that. Slapping years onto the sentence and hailing it as justice is messed up and holding that other dude's 66 year sentence up as a good example is horrendous. Plus there are plenty of similar rulings for similar offences. I spent 9 months in jail with the guy who got 66 years, Donald Hausen. As in we were in the same "pod" and I got to know him pretty well. Just from being locked in the same 124 x 24 ft room (I measured!) as him as much as for personal reasons (he was a fairly decent and intelligent guy). Not terribly sure that this subsequently means I have much to say that will be productive of greater insight, but it was surprising to see his name brought up in a context other than the local news. I'm willing to go further into my thoughts about Hausen or my own experience with incarceration and the legal system if there are any takers, with what I assume are the usual caveats about protecting identities and whatnot.
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Mar 30, 2015 05:29
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Ever since HidingfromGoro went into well, hiding, this thread has been lacking in accounts from people who have been inside the machine. I think everyone reading this thread would be grateful and benefit from what you can share.
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Apr 2, 2015 03:45
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A.S.H. posted:Ever since HidingfromGoro went into well, hiding, this thread has been lacking in accounts from people who have been inside the machine. I think everyone reading this thread would be grateful and benefit from what you can share. I'm a bit hesitant because I'm increasingly realizing that discussing my thoughts about Hausen, much less describing my experience, will be confusing without the context of my own crime and conviction. Well gently caress it, this is a throw-away account anyways. I'll give a brief summary, but please note that this summary will utterly fail to convey the full emotional punch of what it has been like to go through discovery, charge, conviction, and post-incarceration recovery and rehabilitation, including victim empathy. I responded to the above story about Hausen thinking I could convey my appreciation of Hausen and his case and perhaps to expound a bit on my own experience with the justice system, but by giving the context of my own crime, I know there will be at the very least be questions about my crime, and despite my anxiety at the thought, I think it's important that I fully address whatever questions arise before/during/after I talk about Hausen and my experience of incarceration. Two final notes: I'm in grad school and have a work-study job, it's getting towards the end of the semester, and I'm in the middle of final paper research. It's going to be tough for me to devote both time and mental energy to this. Apologies in advance if I'm slow in updating/responding. Also, I'm still in therapy and though I've gained incredible insight, I recognize that I'm still learning about myself and that this is a lifelong process. So the below isn't Truth, it's "the closest thing to Truth that I've learned so far and can convey to you guys in writing while also trying to write a couple research papers). I have a serious sexual compulsion and sexual impulsive problem. This problem, originating since I was about 10 and tied up with feelings of self-hatred towards my sexuality (not just homosexuality, but self-hate in the sense that I felt deeply uncomfortable with the thought of people knowing I was a sexual being), led to me making increasingly stupid and risky sexual choices, based on an intense desire to be a sexual being (because middle school taught me that proclaiming your "sexualness" in public was necessary for social acceptance) while dealing with intense shame at being a sexual being (thanks Catholic Church! thanks parents too awkward to have the sex talk with me! thanks sex-negative sex education!). This behaviors eventually crossed the line into illegality. Luckily I was caught. I say luckily: I mean luckily in the sense that it halted my downward spiral, prevented anyone else from being hurt or put at risk of being hurt, and delivered the slap in the face I needed that woke me up to: "What the gently caress this is not loving okay, look at what the gently caress you've done." To the extent that behavior disorders can be analogized as an addiction, my "drug" of choice is casual sex/hooking up and pornography; I get to be sexually active and feel good about myself superficially while, relatively speaking, keeping everyone from knowing that I'm sexual (including my partners; if I knew more than your first name it was rare). I was arrested, put in the county jail, wherein I met Hausen, and charged with one count of *legalese ahead* "Illegal Use of a Communication System in Facilitating Certain Offenses with a Child." In shorthand, I put out an ad on Craigslist looking to hookup, got a response from someone who in the second e-mail said he were 14, and I proceeded to send him a dick pic. I simultaneously tried to see if he was a cop, because something was definitely throwing up red flags. My sex compulsion being what it is, I was also dealing with an intense voice saying "gently caress it, maybe it's not a cop," which led to me sending the pics, talking explicitly about sex, and trying to set up a meeting place that I felt comfortable about. Eventually I got paranoid it was a cop and ended the conversation. It was an undercover. The next day I got picked up by the cops. So there was my experience in jail and the court system. Then there was the 1st year out of jail (including a polygraph wherein I admitted to past victims in the mode of the above offense and which is part of the court record). Then there's been the past year where I moved out of state to start grad school. All three phases (not to mention how I got to my arrest) could fill pages and pages (my "when an interesting thought hits me" journal I started post-incarceration is almost full). My therapist has told me over and over again that this line of thought is not helpful, but I can't help but feel like I'm never sorry enough for what I did, that my empathy is, compared to the hurt I've caused, so minuscule as to be a slap in the face to my victims. I've learned through therapy and at least partially have inculcated that the only way to move past that thought of worthlessness is to work on myself holistically, to take ownership of what I did and by so doing put it into a scale that I can deal with, examine, and figure out how best to grow from it. And there has been some amazing growth. I was in my first loving (loving in no small part because I told him about my past and my problems), committed relationship with another man thanks to therapy. I was 26 when that relationship started, and it was the first relationship of my life. I feel more clearheaded then I ever have before, I feel stronger. It's quite possible therapy had a positive effect on me getting into the grad program that I did. I mean key to my growth as a person, and which has the added effect of being the best long-term thing to prevent a relapse, is basically to develop a work-out regime for my prefrontal cortex. My compulsion/impulsive behavior basically weakened my prefrontal cortex's ability to say "hey wait a minute this is dumb, dangerous, and despicable" when a sexual impulse (either external stimuli or thought) arose, so it's critical that I increase that part of me able to say "hold on, this is part of the impulse/compulsive cycle, we need to put a stop to this" and put that into effect on my behavior. But I'll stop here and see where you all would like this to go, especially since this was ~90% about my behavioral issues/disorder. Questions? A word of caution: psychology is a fascinating subject, but when I try to put my own thoughts down on paper, it tends to become stream-of-consciousness very quickly and sometimes, to me, seems unintelligible. So please let me know if I sound like a babbling lunatic.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:09
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A.S.H. posted:Ever since HidingfromGoro went into well, hiding, this thread has been lacking in accounts from people who have been inside the machine. I think everyone reading this thread would be grateful and benefit from what you can share.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:52
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I'm not looking for anything specific, I'm not a researcher nor is this my field of expertise. It just helps put things in perspective to hear people's stories. I've never even been in jail much less prison, the closest I've ever been with police have been for minor traffic stops. Appreciate you're willing to do the leg work though.
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Apr 3, 2015 19:22
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I did almost 3 years in Federal prison for drug trafficking, I posted an A/T thread about it a few months ago. I'll try to find the link although I kinda stopped updating that thread because I woke up one morning and just didn't want to talk about prison at all anymore. Now that I've been out for about 5 months and have started getting my life together I don't mind talking about it that much, especially in the context of this thread. There's also a couple of other goons who have good prison accounts including The_Valuum and clubfedgoon. edit: Here's my thread.
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Apr 3, 2015 19:45
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Can anyone please talk about receiving letters while in prison (both local/state prisons and federal prison) and sending letters? Are manila envelopes allowed, even though they have a metal clasp in back? Are inmates restricted in the number of letters they can send? State vs. Federal rules? The only information online is a hodge podge of outdated or not useful information.
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Apr 27, 2015 03:12
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reading posted:Can anyone please talk about receiving letters while in prison (both local/state prisons and federal prison) and sending letters? Are manila envelopes allowed, even though they have a metal clasp in back? Are inmates restricted in the number of letters they can send? State vs. Federal rules? The only information online is a hodge podge of outdated or not useful information. You can call the Federal Bureau of Prisons at (202) 307-3198 to ask about the facility you want to send to. Otherwise I'd recommend just calling the phone number of the Sheriff's Office, State Prison Service or whatever agency is responsible for the operation of the place you are thinking of.
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Apr 27, 2015 03:26
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reading posted:Can anyone please talk about receiving letters while in prison (both local/state prisons and federal prison) and sending letters? Are manila envelopes allowed, even though they have a metal clasp in back? Are inmates restricted in the number of letters they can send? State vs. Federal rules? The only information online is a hodge podge of outdated or not useful information. Call the specific institution in questoon, but generally you need the ones without the metal clasp.
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Apr 27, 2015 03:38
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Al Kiyan posted:I'm a bit hesitant because I'm increasingly realizing that discussing my thoughts about Hausen, much less describing my experience, will be confusing without the context of my own crime and conviction. I have a feeling this should be quoted for posterity. This thread is gonna go places!
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Apr 27, 2015 18:14
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Al Kiyan posted:I'm a bit hesitant because I'm increasingly realizing that discussing my thoughts about Hausen, much less describing my experience, will be confusing without the context of my own crime and conviction. I'll rock with you, gently caress it. What was your prison experience like having an offense of that nature? Were you immediately separated from other inmates? Did everyone know?
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May 15, 2015 04:23
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Has anyone volunteered at a prison/jail?
reading fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 20:59
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Johnny Cache Hit posted:I have a feeling this should be quoted for posterity. This thread is gonna go places! Sounds to me like this is a case of the system working. Surprisingly, given that part of the system involved was American prison. There's a big difference between "I was a bad person and got therapy that appears to have worked" and "I am presently a bad person".
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Sep 6, 2015 23:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Sounds to me like this is a case of the system working. Surprisingly, given that part of the system involved was American prison. Yeah it does and I would love to hear more too. It seems very different from my prison experience. I was given no treatment for my drug addiction, just punishment. After I got out I was bitter and angry and honestly after you've been to prison once for a while you lose the fear of going back. I have enough going on in my life now that I am not going to go back but I can very, very easily see how someone could just say gently caress the system and reoffend constantly.
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Sep 7, 2015 00:51
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the great deceiver posted:Yeah it does and I would love to hear more too. It seems very different from my prison experience. I was given no treatment for my drug addiction, just punishment. After I got out I was bitter and angry and honestly after you've been to prison once for a while you lose the fear of going back. I have enough going on in my life now that I am not going to go back but I can very, very easily see how someone could just say gently caress the system and reoffend constantly. It also doesn't help that some areas of the States set ex-cons up to fail deliberately. Sometimes it's literally impossible for people to not go back so some just go "whatever, this is my life now."
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Sep 7, 2015 03:43
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It also doesn't help that some areas of the States set ex-cons up to fail deliberately. Sometimes it's literally impossible for people to not go back so some just go "whatever, this is my life now." Some states? Which ones have banned the box?
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Sep 7, 2015 08:02
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It also doesn't help that some areas of the States set ex-cons up to fail deliberately. Sometimes it's literally impossible for people to not go back so some just go "whatever, this is my life now." Yes and there's a big overlap between the two. Once you have a felony and have done prison time you have stepped over an edge that you can't un-step. It's not even so much getting a job or housing or education because there are resources for that and a lot of probation/parole office can genuinely offer help with that although those are legitimate problems. It's more a mentality than anything; like I've been treated like chattel inside and am now a second-class citizen outside so why should I give a gently caress about your society. There is no rehabilitation going on although I imagine everyone in this thread is very aware of that.
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Sep 7, 2015 09:45
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Doesn't a conviction of that type automatically get you registered as a sex offender? Because I would imagine the kind of restrictions that come with that would be likely to put a serious damper on your ability to rehabilitate and get on with your life, no matter how much you've improved as a person, in the "setting people up for failure" sense.
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Sep 7, 2015 17:04
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the great deceiver posted:Yes and there's a big overlap between the two. Once you have a felony and have done prison time you have stepped over an edge that you can't un-step. It's not even so much getting a job or housing or education because there are resources for that and a lot of probation/parole office can genuinely offer help with that although those are legitimate problems. It's more a mentality than anything; like I've been treated like chattel inside and am now a second-class citizen outside so why should I give a gently caress about your society. There is no rehabilitation going on although I imagine everyone in this thread is very aware of that. Some don't even have those resources and the probation officer is just there to hover until you inevitably hosed up. I remember reading about...ohhh, Colorado I think, that requires people on probation/recently released from jail to have a job, an apartment, and not move but literally zero help finding those things. If you're lucky you might get a part time work but housing is too expensive, you can't leave a certain area, and they won't let you take jobs outside of that area. The requirement is "get your poo poo together by X date" but a lot of people were pointing out how absolutely impossible it was for most. Then you end up back in jail with extra charges heaped on your record which makes it even more difficult to find a job and housing. Then you get into drug charges. My favorite "this is why America is loving awful" fact is that you can't get federal student loans (last I heard, anyway) if you have a drug charge on your record. Any drug charge at all. So you were caught with an ounce of weed when you were 18? Lol gently caress you bro, hope you didn't plan on going to college!
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Sep 7, 2015 17:11
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ToxicSlurpee posted:
Yes, I was going to say this. There's a question right at the beginning of the FAFSA application that says, "Oh by the way, check this box if you've ever had a drug conviction of any kind" and if you do it immediately ends the session.
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Sep 7, 2015 17:39
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I think it's if you get a drug charge while you were taking student loans. I wasn't taking student loans when I got my drug charge but now I go to culinary school and I get it paid for through the FAFSA.  It's at a community college and not a 4 year though.Jesus Christ I almost feel like I'm defending the system. No I'm not it's as completely hosed up and evil as you guys describe. Two facts that work in my favor in regards to being an ex-con are that I'm white and middle-class and I live in California. I can only imagine how hosed up my circumstances might be otherwise.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:57
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dethkon posted:I'll rock with you, gently caress it. What was your prison experience like having an offense of that nature? Were you immediately separated from other inmates? Did everyone know? PrBacterio posted:Doesn't a conviction of that type automatically get you registered as a sex offender? Because I would imagine the kind of restrictions that come with that would be likely to put a serious damper on your ability to rehabilitate and get on with your life, no matter how much you've improved as a person, in the "setting people up for failure" sense. GreyjoyBastard posted:Sounds to me like this is a case of the system working. Surprisingly, given that part of the system involved was American prison. Sorry for the huge delay all. Trying to contribute to this thread whilst simultaneously doing my work-study gig and grad school necessitated that this thread took lower precedence. Dethkon: After my arrest I was pretty much in medical-grade shock for about 3-5 days afterwards. No hysterics, no crying (at first), just sitting and staring off into space. I took as a certainty that life was over. That's the common refrain about sex offenders; leading a 'normal' life post-conviction is essentially impossible. That was assuming I would even make it out of prison. I was expecting decades behind bars (mind you this was before I met with my lawyer and had any real knowledge of the charge(s) and its/their severity/ies), and that I'd likely be shanked or raped. From the very beginning I was trying to psych myself up for the inevitable self-defense fights I would have to have. I arrived, changed into a red two-piece jail garb, got my jail manual and toiletries, talked to medical/psych, was told that there would be no bail/bond due to my charge and was placed in a windowless, one-man cell in intake. I sat there and just laid down with a towel over my eyes as they never turned off the lights there. I was there for I think 3 days. I managed maybe half a slice of bread during this period due to the shock. As horrible as intake was (nothing to do or read beyond the jail manual, no showers, no human interaction), I figured this was way better than general population. I met with my lawyer and she laid down what I could be facing based on the charge. 5 year mandatory minimum, maximum 20 year, fines, probation, potential lifetime sex offender registry, etc. We talked my legal defense, then her time was up. As she was leaving she said, "Oh and don't tell anyone about your charge. If you have to, say it's a drug thing". She was an excellent lawyer really but this was so insufficient in my mind. Ultimately what more could she have said? but I knew I wouldn't be able to fake having a drug charge or anything else. I'd never been through the justice system before and was about to be housed with a bunch of people who know exactly how it works having a drug charge. drat this is getting long. Okay I'm going to shorten things to highlights. I got to general population, got along okay at first. I thought I might be okay, but my plan of just saying "My lawyer says I shouldn't talk about my case" backfired. People started screaming "sex offender!" and "221 (my cell number) is a sex offender!" all times of day and night, making jokes like "$10 if you can guess whether it was a boy or girl". I didn't know how the gently caress they had figured it out. Then the table of guys I had been sitting with threw this piece of paper at me. It was a printout of the sheriff department's page with my charge information. My guess is that one of the inmates asked someone on the outside to look up the info (we have bracelets with our full names and DOB). I felt the attention of the guys who were on my case about it the most. It was like, having a target at your back or being a sheep and being surrounded by wolves. It was horrible, my heartrate was 24/7 elevated and all my muscles were constantly tensed, waiting for the initial hit or the next round of verbal abuse. That takes a real toll. I know it's only speculative but I noticed a much faster rate of hair loss and a sudden burst of grey hairs after that. I talked with my lawyer about it and she suggested that I tell the deputies that I felt physically threatened so that I could be moved to a different pod. I did that, they took me out of the pod, and had a talk. "There's a few options, we can put you back in there and after a few weeks or months they'll either lose interest or move on to a new victim. We can move you to a new pod but its quite likely that the knowledge of your offense will follow you there eventually. We can put you in protective custody, but you'll lose a lot of your freedoms and it will only prevent physical abuse. You'll still probably get verbally harassed, at least initially after they figure out your crime." I was terrified enough that protective custody sounded good to me. "By the way, protective custody is full indefinitely, so we'll have you house you in administrative segregation." I made the mistake of choosing ad seg. After five days I begged to be let out and take my chances in a new pod. Luckily (I mean that literally, by an extremely lucky combination of factors) I managed, one week aside, to complete my sentence without any further verbal harassment. I'm happy to go into further detail about the rest of my sentence or about anything written above but for now I have to stop. PrBacterio: I used up most of my energy on my response to dethkon but I'd like to answer your questions more thoroughly. I promise to do that in my next response. Very briefly though: It depends on the state, potentially the county. If it's a state charge, there are 50+ different regimes of post-incarceration sex offender rules and regulations to follow. In Virginia I had to register by law. In Virginia, this meant 25 years of registering, with my information posted online. Probation-wise, this meant home visits, mandatory group therapy (though I got individual therapy as we were able to prove in court that group therapy wouldn't be the best of mode of treatment and might actually increase my risk of recidivism), bi-annual lie detector screenings (at $300 a session, paid by the offender if he/she wasn't demonstrably poor), curfews, restriction on internet access to public terminals, no contact with minors, no friendships with anyone who was the parent/guardian of anyone under 18, no drugs or alcohol, 50 mile limit to free movement. After I moved to NY (by transferring my probation, an extremely stressful ordeal), NY said I had to register in their state because I had to register in Virginia. NY has a Board of Examination of Sex Offenders who, in addition to determining sex offender duties for NY state offenders, also evaluates transfers. Despite being a 'low-risk' offender in Virginia, NY BOESO said I should be made a level 2 offender. After hiring a lawyer and challenging that, the judge said the state had not made a sufficient case for departure to level 2 and that level 1 was sufficient. The ADA literally apologized to my lawyer after the rather pro forma hearing and said "We just needed to get the DA's position on record". In NY, thank god, level 1 sex offenders information does not appear online. You have to go to the police officer and, if I remember correctly, provide all my information and ask "Is this man on your registry?". I think there's a 15 year period I have to register. Probation is far less intrusive and my PO treats me like an actual human being as opposed to my PO in VA, who my therapist really disliked for making her clients' lives unnecessarily difficult ("I'm sorry I can only let you spend the night at your boyfriend's house once a month, but this is what he signed up for when he started dating you"). Even though my information does not appear on VA or NY's sex offender registries, my information is still online, thanks to homefacts.com. Despite the fact that I've moved, they still list there being a sex offender living at my parent's address, which makes me uneasy for their safety and security. Unfortunately, to contact homefacts.com and tell them I no longer live in VA will cost me $300. I refuse to pay that. In VA I was required to disclose my offense to anyone I had a "significant relationship" with, which after asking my PO, basically meant any future boyfriends, employers, landlords, etc. I had already told all my closest friends and family. I lost about half of my close friends, but I'm incredibly grateful for the ones who've stuck by me as well as my family, I know it has been tough for them at times. Even though it was mandated in VA, I absolutely believe I need to disclose this part of my history to anyone I start dating and it looks like things might get serious. It would be incredibly unfair to develop a romantic bond with someone and then spring this on them unawares. I'm dating someone now and I'm planning on disclosing this when we next meet, because I really really like him. I also told all of the grad school programs I was accepted to. This ranged from being no problem at all (which was obviously the case for the program I'm in now) to my acceptance being rescinded (due to a snafu, they originally thought i had applied to a PhD program, and I guess in the process of moving me over to a MA application they missed where I had checked the "Have you ever been convicted..." box. When I got accepted, I casually mentioned my offense in an e-mail and was told after several more emails that my acceptance was being withdrawn). I've told my landlord, along with all the other landlords/owners of places I looked at when I was moving up (which, thanks to the probation transfer process, wasn't a sure thing when I was looking, long story). That also ranged from totally not a problem to one woman screaming at me to stay away from her and her daughter over the phone. I've come to realize that the reason I have had a relatively easy time readjusting to society is intimately tied to my position of privilege as a white man of a typically white upper/middle class background. If I was born poor or as a person of color and had committed the same offense, I'm fairly sure the horror stories about sex offenders living as permanent pariahs would be far more applicable. I have, almost entirely due to my privilege, have a good 'story' I can tell people I meet. I have a solid work history, education, professional references, personal references, etc etc. Thanks to having a car and no drug problems, I have a squeaky clean probation record. The connection is less immediate but I think it would also be fair to say my privilege has contributed to my success at therapy, though I have also just found therapy to be such an incredibly fulfilling experience. With any luck I'll be able to get an early release from probation this winter, but I have zero intention of stopping therapy along with probation. It's like having a personal trainer for my emotions, compulsions and impulses (my Id?). I have to put in the leg work, but I'm getting the absolute most benefit from that leg work thanks to my relationship with my therapist. This isn't so much the case in NY, I wasn't able to get the therapist to agree to see me individually so I'm stuck in group therapy, but it's still beneficial (there's a lot more about my disappointment with group therapy but I can't get into it now, this post is already too long). This ties into your question, GreyjoyBastard. "Did the system work" is a difficult one to answer. If your belief is that the criminal justice system is at least partially about rehabilitation, then the system didn't do any of that while I was in jail. I received no therapy of any sort for the 10 months I was in jail. Save for medical emergencies (i.e. "I'm thinking about hurting myself or others"), seeing a mental health counselor took me several months. During our talk, she said she couldn't provide any tailored support, asked me if I had tried breathing exercises to deal with the stress, and then basically implied that they don't have the capacity to deal with anything other than medical-grade mental health issues and suicide risks. Maybe I'm just biased, but I think you could make the argument that being shoved back out with no therapeutic cushioning maybe played a role in my suicide attempt 3 months later. The system worked at this point in that it mandated that I go into treatment. My suicide attempt happened while I was in therapy, mind you, which is a shame, kind of a waste of therapy being so distraught that life is over and you're a disgusting sex offender and oh woe is me (which is selfish and self-hating thinking, of course) that you can't get down to wrestling with your past actions. That was a pretty dark time. I had a wonderful relationship with my therapist, but I basically lied to her about feeling suicidal because...I dunno, because I was so depressed and self-hating, I suppose. I don't know though, however. Being in jail, having a record, being a registered sex offender. I don't think the justice system should forego punitive measures, but these things haven't done anything to rehabilitate me. I'm aware that if I recidivate I'm looking at a much steeper sentence thanks to my record. But its like, it's not a motivating factor, it's more of a vague awareness at the back of my mind. My "here-and-now" motivation to remain in recovery and to push myself to be the best man I can be has been absolutely forged through therapy. This is where personal responsibility comes in. Again I think the personal trainer metaphor works best. My therapist and I can work together to get into the nitty-gritty of my sense of empathy, my acknowledgement of my responsibility for victimizing someone, and how best to work on my compulsions and impulses to ensure I never hurt someone again. But it's on me to do the actual mental digging, and most of it happens after I leave the therapists office. When I had individual sessions I genuinely looked forward to them, they were sometimes the highlight of the week and I mean that as a positive thing. Especially after I had some breakthroughs about my problems, going to therapy was like getting a good mental workout, where I could really wrestle with whatever had been on my mind through the week with someone who can really direct me to the core of the issue. It's fabulous, and really I recommend it to everyone, people who believe they have problems and people who feel perfectly content with themselves. Okay I've written enough, time to do some research. I'm hoping I can be a bit more on the uptake with responding to questions, so feel free to ask away. I've left out a ton of stuff and thoughts. Al Kiyan fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 00:42
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HOLY gently caress they put you in GP with a sex charge? The first 10 months of my sentence I was in county and they had a policy of automatically putting anyone with anything that could even be remotely construed as a sex charge in PC. I'm sorry. I've been on the other side of your situation and it's really 1 or 2 sociopaths who want to get at you and the rest of the people are joining in just so they don't get accused of anything themselves but you already know that. Socially jail/prison is middle school on ultra-steroids. I was lucky in that I actually had a drug charge and I was able to navigate the politics and social situations prison presented fairly easily. Also my entire sentence I was separated from sex offenders so I honestly can't say how I would have reacted if I was in with them. I hope I would have had the courage not to be a degenerate bully.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:18
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the great deceiver posted:HOLY gently caress they put you in GP with a sex charge? The first 10 months of my sentence I was in county and they had a policy of automatically putting anyone with anything that could even be remotely construed as a sex charge in PC. I'm sorry. I've been on the other side of your situation and it's really 1 or 2 sociopaths who want to get at you and the rest of the people are joining in just so they don't get accused of anything themselves but you already know that. Socially jail/prison is middle school on ultra-steroids. I was lucky in that I actually had a drug charge and I was able to navigate the politics and social situations prison presented fairly easily. Also my entire sentence I was separated from sex offenders so I honestly can't say how I would have reacted if I was in with them. I hope I would have had the courage not to be a degenerate bully. The more I think about it the more I was incredibly lucky to have it so easy after I moved to the second pod. The only thing I had to do on my part was to constantly be on guard and to check my actions and what I said to ensure I didn't bring any suspicion or interest to my case. I had to be "on guard" about it because it's really tricky to find the right balance: you basically have to avoid talking about your case without looking like you're avoiding talking about your case. Some things I learned: NEVER ask about another person's case. In general, never remind people that they have legal cases they're dealing with. If it's brought up independently of yourself, offer the minimum amount of input to keep the conversation going and look for a natural point to change the topic of conversation. Don't ask too much about people's personal life, especially unprovoked. If you get caught having to make up a charge, be prepared to do the legwork to work out the FULL story of the case, practice practice practice till you can recite the whole thing in your sleep, and if you're lucky it will pass the bullshit detector. Are you fighting the case or pleading guilty? Is it a relatively minor charge you made up? Better have a lengthy history of small felonies that will explain why your rich white rear end isn't out on bail. You will not be able to hide being a middle class white boy if you are a middle class white boy. I never fully relaxed until I was outside of the jail house, I just subconsciously got used to the constantly heightened state of anxiety.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:31
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Al Kiyan posted:You will not be able to hide being a middle class white boy if you are a middle class white boy. I never fully relaxed until I was outside of the jail house, I just subconsciously got used to the constantly heightened state of anxiety. Yeah that's true. I don't know why they told you to fake a drug charge, they should tell you to fake some sort of white-collar crime since most county jail inmates aren't gonna really understand that unless they get suspicious enough to check your paperwork which obviously they did in your case. And yeah telling other inmates you can't talk about your case is a done deal, you can't say that. I'm glad you made it through ok and that you got help and are remorseful for your crime. That's something I haven't accomplished- I don't feel much remorse for my crime since it was a non-violent drug crime although I am now working with a psychiatrist and a therapist to address my drug-addiction issues paid for by federal probation. I understand what you mean by the heightened state of alert- hell to this day, nine months after I was released I still get extremely jumpy when people approach me from behind or do other small stupid things that wouldn't really phase someone who hasn't been to the places we have.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:37
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Al Kiyan, how did the deputies treat you? Did you get treated decently?
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Sep 8, 2015 09:57
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Vahakyla posted:Al Kiyan, how did the deputies treat you? Did you get treated decently? As far as I was paying attention the deputies, I have to say, seemed entirely decent and professional to me and the other sex offenders in the pod (This is part of why I think I was so lucky, I was moved into a pod with 3 other people accused/convicted of sex crimes and who had kind of already done the leg-work of being harassed and having everyone lose interest in harassing them or believed they were innocent or were taking pity on the fact their crime occurred when they were 13. This was how I met Donald Hausen. It's a long story but my main harasser was moved into my pod for fighting and after the abuse started I confessed to the others charged with sex crimes that I was in the same boat as them and we wrote to the deputies to have the harasser removed. After this I really developed my ability to not raise interest in my case, but with the others charged with sex crimes I made up a story about how I was basically framed and was fighting the charges in court.) Some of the deputies were dicks on a power trip but they were dicks to everyone, I didn't feel singled out. Some were honestly friendly. Most if not all knew what my charges were, one deputy admitted that they get to know the "old-timers" and are curious just like everyone else.
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Sep 8, 2015 12:53
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What the gently caress is it with the US justice system and its obsession with lie-detector/polygraph tests which demonstrably don't loving work at all?
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Sep 8, 2015 19:06
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Orange Devil posted:What the gently caress is it with the US justice system and its obsession with lie-detector/polygraph tests which demonstrably don't loving work at all? The only thing the U.S. justice system cares about is putting as many people in jail as it possibly can. Lie detectors and drug sniffing dogs, despite being demonstrably not very accurate, have a reputation as being accurate so a lot of people don't challenge them. All you have to say is "he failed a polygraph test" and you'll suddenly have poo poo loads of people assuming he lies about literally everything and should be thrown in jail as he is obviously guilty.
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Sep 8, 2015 19:19
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Polygraph tests generally aren't admissible in Federal court because prosecutors are very much aware of how much of a clusterfuck they can be and don't want to chance them. It's law-enforcement types that have a boner for polygraphs, the courts usually want absolutely nothing to do with them.
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Sep 8, 2015 19:33
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Orange Devil posted:What the gently caress is it with the US justice system and its obsession with lie-detector/polygraph tests which demonstrably don't loving work at all? Lie detectors are 100% worthless when it comes to detecting lies, but they're very, very good at making people sweat, even if they know that lie detectors are bullshit
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Sep 8, 2015 21:07
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Orange Devil posted:What the gently caress is it with the US justice system and its obsession with lie-detector/polygraph tests which demonstrably don't loving work at all? Don't think lie detectors are admissable in any state.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:28
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nm posted:Don't think lie detectors are admissable in any state. The most offensive thing to me is the guy who was imprisoned for teaching people how to beat them: http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/indiana-man-gets-8-months-for-lie-detector-fraud/
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Sep 8, 2015 22:03
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:They are used in pre-screening for government jobs, which is pretty bizarre. Tax dollars pay for a lot of lie detectors. That is different than the justice system.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:29
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Yeah the main area of the justice system where polygraphs are used are Law & Order re-runs
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Sep 8, 2015 23:44
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the great deceiver posted:Yeah the main area of the justice system where polygraphs are used are Law & Order re-runs The number of clients who told me they'd like to do a lie detector was amazing. To give even more faith through the idea, many of those guys were clearly guilty, sometimes on video. Re sex offenders: don't come near california. Our lifetime registration is basically designed to violate sex offenders, even when they've never been convicted of a sex crime or committed one. Back in the 60s or so when being gay was still basically illegal, gay men would plea to indecent exposure to avoid charges that showed they were gay and registration. Then the legislature legalized gay sex, struck all people having consentual sex off the registry, but made anyone convicted of indecent exposure register. Whooops. I've also had out of state people with wierd convictions (lewd acts or something like that in texas was just consentual gay sex) be arrested for not registering, which is poo poo. And even if you were convicted fairly, it is still basically designed to prevent rehabilitaion. You can do something when you are 20 and thirty years later no one cares about anytjong but what you did on the worst day of your life. This is all based on research which indicates pedophiles can't be cured. Most sex offenders, even those which targeted children, are not pedophiles, but targeted persons for other reasons. They are fixable. Don't give up sex offender dude (sorry for calling you that, but I'm on my phone and can't remember your name). nm fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 00:52
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Let's also not forget that "public urination" is also a sex offense in some places. So if you were homeless and got caught pissing in an alley California will treat you like a pedophile forever.
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Sep 9, 2015 01:07
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Let's also not forget that "public urination" is also a sex offense in some places. So if you were homeless and got caught pissing in an alley California will treat you like a pedophile forever. Once again, I don't know if that's entirely true. I had a friend who was busted for public urination in a small college town in California and he was given a public urination/indecent exposure charge and had to do a bunch of community service hours and pay a fine but he definitely didn't have to register with the life-time sex offender list. Also before I went to prison I was a social worker with the homeless and of the many, many legal challenges my clients faced on a daily basis this was not one I ever heard of them encountering. Maybe it was true in California at one point, because I have heard the exact same thing before as well but I am 99% positive that that is not the case anymore. Not many people know that when you are convicted of a drug felony in California at least you have to register as a drug offender. I had to do this and about the only difference between this and a sex offender is you don't have to notify your neighbors and all that bullshit. Both of the lists are draconian as gently caress, especially the SO list which, like nm said, doesn't even provide for the option that some people might be able to get better and change. They're stuck with that scarlet letter for life.
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Sep 9, 2015 02:28
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Let's also not forget that "public urination" is also a sex offense in some places. So if you were homeless and got caught pissing in an alley California will treat you like a pedophile forever. Public urination is not a registrable offense in CA. Indecent exposure is and public urination is not indecent exposure in CA. That said, before it was registrable (as late as 2000s in some counties, there was a court split that made this not even uniform in the state), cops would cite people for it like crazy. As it was just a misdemeanor with no reg requirement people would plea out without attorneys to get out of jail or just not miss work. So while it is not technically true that you can catch a registrable offense for peeing in public in CA (this may be true in other states), there are almost certainly people in this state who register for it because they plead to the wrong thing. Just like I've plead many a client charged with indecent exposure or child molestation (a charge that literally no one understands, it requires no physical contact and can literally be hitting on a 17 year old) for a 647(a) ("engages in lewd or dissolute conduct in any public place") because it is non-registrable. Even innocent people because lifetime registration will ruin your life. If the legislature makes that registrable, all those guys are hosed too. Sex offender registries are stupid and those that register anything that isn't either unwanted genial (of either party) contact or genital contact with kids is even dumber. Drug offender registries are stupid as poo poo, but at least they're done after a few years, only require re-registration when you move, aren't on the web, and if you don't have a PO literally no one is trying to violate you. When I did parole court, the judge laughed at any failure to do drug registration while sex reg was serious business (also those guys were going to prison). It will mean you get stopped every 5 seconds though.
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Sep 9, 2015 03:22
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