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I will copypaste my post from the AsknTell prison discussion, since it might interest some people here:spud posted:How do Nordic prisons compare to what has been posted here? From what little I have seen of them, the accommodation looks almost as good as a budget hotel (with shitter decor). I mean, that Brevik guy has a ps3 or something doesn't he? Do you have the issues with drugs being smuggled, booze being made, gangs etc? They are like nice motels with organized activity. Many of them allow you to get out to buy groceries and go to work in the morning and they have video games and movies and nice gyms and big yards and computer rooms and what not. They are fairly comparable to a somekind of youth summer camp. People don't often have to smuggle cell phones since they can have them as normal. Guards engage and cooperate with the prisoners to help them with daily activities. The new prisoners are the nicer looking ones and the old prisons look like "prisons" with still bars and poo poo like that, and have old-timey cells and more cement, but still function like the other prisons, despite looking rougher. Health care is kickass of course as is the course in Nordic Europe and plenty of behavioral education and psychological help is available. Guard training is selective and comprehensive with emphasis on social studies, education, pedagogy and other relevant fields. Some compare them to school teachers. Guards are often well liked. Here is a shittier and older prison cell with a prisoner:  There are no prison uniforms often, but your own clothing that you buy with the decent money you make. The decor is often better than american motels, in my experience. Here is a newer type open prison with no walls:  Canteen Compound:  Entrance:  This prison has cells like this:  You being a murderer or a serial killer in itself is often not a reason to treat you differently if you act like people. And when you treat people like people, they often act like people. But the few trouble customers spend time in their own sections that limit some basic freedoms but are not too bad. Finland has a total of one guy in solitary right now, a police supervisor who got caught with organized crime connections, with millions buried in his yard and poo poo, so he can't get a cell phone or talk to other prisoners due to the National Bureau of Investigation having suspected police officers on their hunt list and they don't want to compromise that. Some judges are fairly opposed to keeping Supervisor Aarnio in long solitary, since he has been in solitary almost 8 months now. Almost unheard of. Points to note is that solitary means that only contact he gets is with guards and he has no access to cellphones or the internet, but he is not in a dark hole. He is in a unit by himself with several rooms, a small gym and things like that. The solitary is not "punitive", but just a separation of outside contact, while otherwise treating him well. Similar to how Mass Murderer Breivik is handled in Norway. Norway has a maximum penalty of 25 years with then yearly checks if you should wait for parole. Finland has a "life sentence" that often means 6-10 years in prison, 6-10 in probation after that and rest of your life on suspended sentence. Sweden has prison years for 10 (18 in case of murder, but basically no one sits that long) in their "life sentence" and rest of it on probation. Recidivism is fairly low and leniency for everyone is always emphasized. In a complete reversal, judges aim for the most leniency possible and mitigating factors are always heavier than aggravating ones. The victim and the perp are both victims of the shortcoming of the society. And the important part is that they work. Prisoners rehabilitate, are happier, enter the society again (though they are never kept truly separate) faster and overall society benefits. These are also much cheaper institutions than americans are, since prisoners do most the stuff themselves, such as food and activities. ALso operating the prison ferry in some cases, lol. Criminal records don't gently caress people over and employer has no right to know about them unless they pertain to the field, such as embezzlement for banking, abuse of authority for security guard, ie you get the point. Even then it is not a disqualifier automatically. When nearing release, they often strive to keep their jobs they had while inside or prison counselors help to get them into public jobs like libraries, public works and other similar jobs help them land on their feet. It's not too uncommon for a prisoner to make more money than a guard in nordic prisons since they accept all the overtime they can and are paid according to labor union contracts of their field of labor. Since many of them are a bit bored and eager to save up for life outside, they work like hell and land in the real world with a nice nest egg. They also get regular housing, student and unemployment assistance as any resident gets if they can't find work. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Nov 26, 2014 |
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Nov 26, 2014 10:02
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The Ender posted:
A norwegian judge said after Breivik, to this very thing, that "We don't really know if we can or not, and as a society, we owe it to everyone to try our best in providing the best care and help to them, no matter how unlikely a positive result is", after being interviewed by american journalists.
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Nov 26, 2014 10:26
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Tias posted:I have to chime in, and say that the pictures and description Vahakyla offers cannot be called a "nordic" standard. In Denmark, most of our jails have tiny, lovely cells, and we are one of the world leaders in use of isolation. While I haven't really immersed myself in Danish Prisons, what you say does not seem to be true. Denmark scores pretty highly on the rehabilitation scale and your point seems to talk more about the cells themselves than the facility itself. Denmark has a shitton of oooooold prisons, more than several centuries. This is the case in other Nordics too and these prisons are lovely from the glance due to the concrete and metal everywhere, but they function as more modern facilities than prisons anywhere. The old prisons are undergoing renovations and refurbishments, but there is only so much you can do to a 230 year old jail cell to look it comfy. While they do look rough, and while not all prisons are of the new constructions with fancy dorm rooms and hard wood floors, it is important to make a separation between the aesthetics of the prison and the functionality of it. And according the official pages of the Criminal Service, http://www.kriminalforsorgen.dk/English-29.aspx, the other point you said was not true, either. All scales of inmates from simple batteries to murder can and do serve in the newer open type prisons, too, and not just "rich people". The Danish Goverment uses Open Prisons to the same degree as the other Nordic Countries, in other words slowly moving as many people to them as possible and prioritizing those who are closer to release. Yet, the closed prisons are nothing like "prisons" for americans, either. http://www.nopenguins.com/danish-open-prison The Danish prisons are nothing like the American ones in any way. Maybe you are looking at this from inside the Nordic perspective and you view them as lower as perhaps Norwegian prisons, but you need to adjust your perspective or what you say is going to be largely irrelevant to international discussion about prisons. Of the isolation, I don't know about anything. I'd hazard a guess that isolation means no contact with cellphones, internet and other inmates, but otherwise still decent facilities. Once again nothing like isolation in America. Nordics are also fairly different from the French, so I don't know. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Nov 26, 2014 |
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Nov 26, 2014 20:35
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Antti posted:Open prisons like the one Vahakyla described are for non-violent offenders (white-collar criminals tend to fall under this definition, naturally), but the few Finnish facilities that exist for violent offenders, members of organized crime etc., operate on the same principles but with slightly heightened security. The guards still don't carry guns, the prisoners are allowed to cook their own meals, decorate their cells, have PlayStations, get to leave the prison for a few days at a time if they behave well, work jobs, study, etc. That's not true. While it is the popular perception, murderers and other violent criminals do serve in open prisons in Finland and other nordic countries. I know it's really common to say how they are "rich people prisons" but it simply is not true. Hell, a friend of mine sold loads of drugs and while the other times before he got probation, this time he got "hard time" inside a open prison in central Finland. His cellmate was an axe murderer and on the other side was a dude who shot at cops couple years ago. While these are only anecdotes, so do the official guidelines of the national prison service say that the type of crime has much less bearing on the location, while the manner and past actions have much more effect on the serving location. A lot of people enter a closed prison, then gravitate towards open prisons after a year or so, depending on the region and available space and what not. But as mentioned, the closed prisons are pretty open, too, and nothing like prisons elsewhere in the world.
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Dec 7, 2014 18:33
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Tias posted:Do you live in any of the nordic countries? Because, you know, I do, and it's not like I don't know people who've served time.. Yes, up until recently. Like I said, your perception on what is "bad" is another story on the international scale of prisons. You or your friends most likely have valid complaints of the Criminal Justice in Denmark, and I don't dispute those in any way. They just aren't the same kind of issues when comparing to the United States and its issues with criminal justice and if an american says "my prison time was bad" and you say that your buddy's time in prison in Denmark was "bad" and then you two have a discussion on prison reform on that starting point, it's like insanity. The Danish system has shortcomings and it has outliers and it has people that do not receive the best of the treatment. Most of the time though, people in there are served fairly well. You do realize that this is nothing like the US Prison System at all, the "good treatment" is the outlier and the exception. Here is even a study acknowledgins that Danish system has issues, yet also states that: quote:Conditions faced by isolated Danish remand prisoners today are very different from those of their U.S. supermax counterparts and would probably be considered much more humane by most observers An excerpt from Denmark: The new State Prison of Jutland, where some of the most dangerous prisoners are kept: It also offers a 37 hour workweek with good competetive pay to the inmates, various education programs, the occasional holiday allowed for prisons to go home or go take a walk around the town. Great substance abuse rehab programs, social guidance, communal sporting events, food made by the prisoners themselves and other stuff. They get guidance and social counselors before release to help them adjust to the life outside and help with housing or work outside the prison. Denmark has a recidivism rate of 27% quote:Danish system also relies on handing out short sentences. The average sentence is six months and only two percent are over two years. In fact, more than half of sentences are three months or less.      
Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 17:04
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I've also heard the argument that not having life sentences and other insanely long sentences is one of the reason for the lack of "pulled over for taillight, has warrants, shoots cops"-type of blaze that happens in the United States. Surprisingly, when you give people hope, they act better.
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Jan 2, 2015 18:31
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Powercrazy posted:Prison sentences are both too long, and too common. I guess this is a controversial opinion for most of the US public. For most, criminals are not people.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:57
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His Purple Majesty posted:So if we let rapists off the hook because of mental illness why not white collar criminals? Many of them are sociopaths with a disdain for others why not give them some half hearted counselling and let them back on the street too? I'm not against abolishing imprisonment in most cases for all offender.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:10
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gently caress that. Slapping years onto the sentence and hailing it as justice is messed up and holding that other dude's 66 year sentence up as a good example is horrendous. Plus there are plenty of similar rulings for similar offences.
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Jan 10, 2015 07:18
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reading posted:Can anyone please talk about receiving letters while in prison (both local/state prisons and federal prison) and sending letters? Are manila envelopes allowed, even though they have a metal clasp in back? Are inmates restricted in the number of letters they can send? State vs. Federal rules? The only information online is a hodge podge of outdated or not useful information. You can call the Federal Bureau of Prisons at (202) 307-3198 to ask about the facility you want to send to. Otherwise I'd recommend just calling the phone number of the Sheriff's Office, State Prison Service or whatever agency is responsible for the operation of the place you are thinking of.
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Apr 27, 2015 03:26
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Al Kiyan, how did the deputies treat you? Did you get treated decently?
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Sep 8, 2015 09:57
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Nordic prisoners at least can receive email normally since as far as I know. most of them have access to a computer and internet, in various restrictions, but the issue is that from what I know, laws prohibiting handing out info. You have to know the name and ID of the prisoner to request their email, or you have to have them contact you. Some of them have a email system where they might not be able to read them as they come, but at some pre-determined time, for example. I also sent an email to a" friend" in a British Prison, the HMP Kilmarnock. I think there most can't use social media or other internet, but can send and receive emails through their prison account, which we used. Basically in Europe's case, it often boils to the fact that you have to know the inmate somehow. You can't just poke in the dark. Public searchable databases like the US likes to use don't often exist. I'd try some discussion forums where people keep in touch with their friends or even read from prison, and suggest pen pals. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 04:42
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