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I honestly do not get the love for Thrawn. He is honestly a pretty dumb villain whose primary plot power is "gets to be right for poorly defined reasons and because the heroes are stupid." I appreciate the idea of a tactical genius instead of LORD SITHMAN as the villain, but not when his tactics boil down to "heh, I know exactly how this entire race is going to react because I studied their art." When he specifically picked up Admiral Ackbar's art or whatever and studied it to figure out how Ackbar would react? That's a neat idea. It's implausible, but doesn't feel like the plot is wanking him off. It also was boring how Pellion existed entirely to be 'wrong' so Thrawn could correct him, even when you'd think he learned his god damned lesson by the hundredth time it happened.
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Jan 9, 2012 04:30
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Powered Descent posted:If this annoys you, don't ever read any of the stories in the Sherlock Holmes canon. Thrawn IS Holmes (but with blue skin and a dash of evil), and the Holmes-Watson relationship is almost exactly the same as Thrawn-Pellaeon. He doesn't though. He's clearly trying to mimic it but not in a way that works. Watson plays off Holmes, who is a more significantly flawed character, and is often treated with respect. Pellaeon is seriously there just to be wrong and to fawn over Thrawn. Later books give him something of an actual personality, but his initial role is just to be the guy who Thrawn can be right to. I also don't see Thrawn as particularly bucking the "black/white" morality in the original trilogy. Like, at all. Sometimes he doesn't kill his minions, but that is about it. They don't even really give him a motivation in the original trilogy beyond "I'm bringing the empire back, baby!" Later stuff is a bit better, but it's a lot of after-the-fact after the guy is already dead. When he was alive, he was just kind of an rear end in a top hat. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 08:34
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I suppose I can see what you mean. It is weird to me to hear Thrawn praised as great just taken on its own, but then I remember he's up against like the Oogie Boogie Biomonsters and Darth Kneesabers and realize that, oh yeah, he's actually a step up just by not making me laugh at him.
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Jan 9, 2012 17:03
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OnDizZ7UT0&feature=player_embedded! This should be the only Star Wars canon from now on. The only one.
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Apr 2, 2012 22:05
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Esroc posted:Did Apocalypse just totally rip off Mass Effect with the Powerful beings periodically wipe the galaxy clean every few thousand years so new life can develop, or is that just a common sci-fi theme and Denning just got super lazy and used it instead of coming up with something original? That is a super common sci-fi trope that existed long before Mass Effect.
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Apr 9, 2012 06:19
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Esroc posted:Does anyone else agree that it might be exciting to read about how force users are really just manipulating the laws of physics? No. Not even a little. The Force's most interesting aspects are not the ability to shoot force waves from your hands or lift poo poo. That's... kind of the entire point of Yoda. That the guy who is most powerful in the Force isn't the guy who can lift a Star Destroyer with his mind, it is the guy who is close to spiritual enlightenment. Take away the spiritual enlightenment part and you really do just get Magic Space Wizards, even if they're using ~physics~ instead.
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Apr 10, 2012 14:40
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Metal Loaf posted:I guess it's another problem the EU has had for a long while. There seems to have been a bit of a propensity for portraying the Force as a source of superpowers, which can be measured like a power level from Dragon Ball Z or something. I have my problems with Zahn and think he is a bit overrated, but god damned if he wasn't the only writer to go "Hey guys, maybe giving Luke a new superpower every other book isn't really meshing with how the Force was portrayed. Let's give him an excuse to cut back and become more spiritual." And then that was promptly ignored so they could use force-guided torpedoes, shoot green lightning and travel through time.
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Apr 10, 2012 16:39
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Metal Loaf posted:So, here's something I discovered on a section of Wookieepedia I've never actually noticed (the Wookieepedia NewsNet). It's the wackiest things to appear in the EU. How is Kneesabers Dude not on that list? Honestly.
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Apr 28, 2012 19:12
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Calax posted:Gonna go out on a limb and say that it doesn't. Mainly because his only SW book (Courtship) reads like a female power fantasy rather than a Mormon book. I mean it's a bunch of women with force powers, completely dominating the men in their lives (to the point the guys are basically slaves). It takes until Luke shows up that they go "Oh dear! Man has power too!" That isn't remotely female power fantasy. It's actually the opposite. It's the cliche "feminazi hell" where the strong powerful male character comes in and 'tames' them.
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Sep 6, 2012 21:15
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Flipswitch posted:Government rape camps? I'm hoping that's slightly tongue in cheek because that sounds pretty disturbing. It isn't. It's supposed to be a DARK FUTURE THING where humanity's numbers are so low that women are obligated to be raped to have kids or something like that. (My friend read the novels so I only know it second-hand.) The female characters who are marines are those who don't/can't have kids I think?
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Sep 9, 2012 02:33
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SeanBeansShako posted:Well, now that I know Lucas is still going to be involved my expectations have dropped heavily. Lucas was involved with all the films. As long as he isn't Godemperor things should be fine.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:44
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computer parts posted:I can guarantee that no one I know actually knows those two facts (well maybe the latter because it's telegraphed to hell in the movies). Ask them if they know that one of Han Solo's kids turned evil and had to be killed by the other, and the third died fighting aliens from outside the galaxy who fly around in magic living ships that shoot volcanos and create black holes.
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Nov 2, 2012 13:48
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api call girl posted:Supposedly Harrison Ford is now open to returning as Han Solo. Man, uh, I'm not sure I want to see Princess Leia return.
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Nov 6, 2012 17:22
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Thrawn isn't a "Mary Sue" in that he isn't an author insert but he is really clearly one of those kind of characters who the author loves. His 'tactical' abilities are basically magical and there's a lot of scenes dedicated just to going "look how cool Thrawn is." I think he's looked more fondly on than he would be otherwise because he was really early and because he's something better executed than most. He's still better than most EU villains but that is because the EU is filled to the brim with absolutely poo poo villains whereas Thrawn at least has an actual personality.
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Nov 14, 2012 17:02
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euphronius posted:I don't remember the Thrawn books very well but wasn't one of his tactical genius moves based on making sweeping racial generalizations about the opposing pilot. That was his special skill. He could study a race's artwork and then somehow figure out entirely how they would react. Sometimes it sort of made sense. ("This is Ackbar's arwork, it gives me analysis into his mind") and sometimes it was just plot magic.
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Nov 14, 2012 17:24
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chaosrefined posted:It's criminal that KOTOR2 was left so unfinished when we got two Force Unleashed games. The Force Unleashed 2 was left unfinished too actually. It was rushed out the door and the team laid off, and that is why it ends on a ridiculous cliffhanger that will never be resolved because they fully expected to get a sequel or DLC when designing it instead of "out the loving door, we're done."
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Dec 28, 2012 20:50
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Powered Descent posted:It seems perfectly reasonable for Leia to be able to fly an X-Wing. After all, any farm kid who's ever flown a T-16 seems to be able to pick it up in no time. But according to the article, she's suddenly almost as good of a dogfighter as Luke and Wedge. That's a bit more of a stretch. Why is it as much a stretch? The entire reason that we accept that Luke is a great pilot despite being a kid from the backwater end of the universe is because A) He has the force and B) his father was Anakin Skywalker, the greatest pilot that Obi-Wan had ever seen Guess who else also hits A and B? Why is it okay for Luke to be a great pilot but not Leia? Luke is allowed to be a great pilot because of his genetics and Leia is his god damned twin sister who was also fighting in the Rebellion before Luke got his rear end off Tatooine. Keep in mind that this story is, according to the article, set between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. So Luke's still fresh off his first significant battle, period, even if it was a huge success for him. So what's so implausible about his twin sister who is also an expert marksman, diplomat, able to survive torture and Force Sensitive, being around the same talent level? What does he have that she doesn't besides a penis and some practice bullseying womprats? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 03:38
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Powered Descent posted:Thirty-six solid years of characterization as a natural pilot. Ah, but you're ignoring what I said. Luke, in the films, is portrayed as an ace pilot who takes after his father's natural skills aided by his Force Sensitivity. There is no reason you can't use the same justification for Leia. Going "Well, nobody characterized her that way before" is silly because there has been a lot of random poo poo in the EU stories, you can justify anyone as anything without trouble. Just going off the *movies* there's absolutely nothing that goes against this. If anything it makes more sense than her not being a good pilot considering they basically implied that piloting skill is both genetic and Force-gifted and Leia hits both. If we're supposed to buy that Luke is a great pilot just because his father was, why doesn't that apply to Leia?
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Jan 5, 2013 05:45
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api call girl posted:Then why isn't she leading like, say, Gold Squadron instead of the Endor team? Why when Rogues and other pilots were fighting on Hoth, she was standing around waiting for the last boat to evacuate? You can make the exact same comment about Endor for Han and Luke. Han even gives him drat spaceship to Lando. As for Hoth, she was doing other things in the command center. api call girl posted:This is the same kind of stupid poo poo that came out of "hey let's get the Solo kids in some bug orgies" and "hey let's turn Jacen dark with complete disregard of context". No it isn't. It's in fact the exact opposite. It's something that is perfectly justifiable within the context of the story and make sense within the universe as presented. The author explained his justification and it makes perfect sense. This isn't random bug orgy poo poo, it's based entirely off character traits and logic presented in the movies and a good portion of the EU. Leia's father, brother, husband, sons and daughter are all ace pilots. Aside from Han they all show exceptional skill at extremely young ages, largely due to being Force Sensitive. (I'm pretty sure Jacen and his sister both set ridiculous records in at least one book.) Why not Leia? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 06:02
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This is all just setup for Star Trek Wars.
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Jan 25, 2013 00:26
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Ursine Asylum posted:This reads like 5th graders with mad libs. That sounds like the EU to me.
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Feb 9, 2013 00:33
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There is no reason at all that Disney should keep the EU. Can you seriously imagine that poo poo? "So, uh, you're telling me Han and Leia had three kids... and one of them was murdered by torture-aliens and the other was killed by the third after he became a Sith? Sure, I don't see why we wouldn't want to keep that. I'm sure casual Star Wars fans would love hearing about the murder of their favorite hero's children. What happened to Chewbacca anyway? Oh, he was hit by a moon? Well, okay!" It would certainly make people look more positively back on the prequels at least.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:38
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SeanBeansShako posted:No sorry, the prequals were still poo poo. The prequels were complete poo poo and yet they lacked Lord Nyax and his kneesabers and bug orgies.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:51
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Or that Thrawn is actually a pretty dumb character and stands out because "pretty dumb" is a huge step up from the rest of the EU's "magnificently dumb?"
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Apr 8, 2013 02:00
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:http://starwars.com/this-is-madness/ Is there any possible way Vader doesn't win?
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Apr 8, 2013 19:44
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Well, they've already had Mark Hamill doing voicework for Kingdom Hearts so that'd make part of it easier on them!
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Jul 9, 2013 12:17
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jivjov posted:True, but it's a lovely PR move. What do you tell to the people who were waiting for those books to come out? "Oh sorry, Disney had us cancel them because....reasons." Whole lotta goodwill lost right there. Disney is probably far more interested in keeping a consistent control over their brand than in upsetting the increasingly small number of Star Wars EU fans who are 99% likely to continue to buy everything they put out anyway.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:46
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Explain the upcoming crossover with their stupid loving Phineas and Ferb cartoon. Consistent control over their brand isn't the same as good decisions. jivjov posted:The books keep hitting the New York Times Best Seller list, so there apparently are a lot of people out there buying them. Hitting the New York Times Best Seller list is not actually as big a deal as you'd think for any established brand. It's a lot more about marketing than actual demand. It's only really significant when a new author or new franchise does it (and sometimes not even then.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 09:16
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The novels get entirely too up their own asses with the "maybe there isn't DARK and LIGHT Side" stuff which makes anything with the Jedi a near-unreadable mess as another author tries their hardest to redefine the Force. Basically the only time I think it actually worked was when Zahn put forth the idea that Luke was treading on the Dark Side by using and relying on ostentatious overt uses of the Force constantly and the real Jedis were more subtle, less dependent on the Force for everything and more prone to following its guidance. Of course the prequel movies showed that, no, it was Space Magic and so we went right back to "Well maybe it's not the Dark Side if you look at it this way?!" stuff because people want to write about giant awesome Force Lightning shows.
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Aug 13, 2013 04:16
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On the other hand I'll say that Legacy was terrible. When you begin with "Luke Skywalker's drug-addicted grandchild and also the Sith are back" it can only really go downhill from there. It hits a lot of the worst of the worst of the EU. It's not the worst the EU has to offer but it's not very good either.
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Sep 28, 2013 01:00
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Conquistador posted:Ugh I don't know, he said not in the movies and Wedge, Tycho, Hobbie, and Wes all play major roles in multiple movies I am fairly sure that, except for maybe Wedge, few people who saw the movies could name those characters.
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Sep 28, 2013 02:03
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Chairman Capone posted:That was Planet of Twilight. Admiral Daala's boyfriend makes his living by filming Hutt porn. Jesus, the higher level shops in Tiny Death Star must get weird.
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Dec 3, 2013 02:35
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Flagrant Abuse posted:You know who else was a dark jedi cyborg? That's right. ... Well, and Darth Vader.
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Dec 9, 2013 08:18
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That appears to be the exact opposite of what that person is saying, just from the things you posted. He is saying that Hitler was not a magic space wizard and while he did terrible things those things were born from factors more complex and involved than He Was Evil which is pretty objectively true. The other thing he posted, just from the context of what you posted, is him going "Hey, this book provides valuable insight into how someone like Hitler thinks and acts" with a side of trolling, not "Boy, this is a jolly good book full of right ideas." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 16:27
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Gammatron 64 posted:Aren't people bored of Sith Lords and the like at this point? Darth Vader is the best one and good enough, it's not like you need any more when you have him around. Compared to Vader and the Emperor, all the other guys are a bit poo poo. Count Dooku had the potential to be a cool bad guy, but they totally blew it. I could have gone for an upper crust gentleman Space Dracula but all things said and done the guy was pretty useless. There is a small but vocal community of people who really like the starfighter aspect of Star Wars but by and large the Space Wizards are what people come for.
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Feb 1, 2014 19:51
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The Vong thing was trying too hard to be "changes the face of Star Wars FOREVER." We killed Chewbacca, motherfucker, this isn't your daddy's Star Wars! Most of the design elements came from the same perspective of trying to feel dramatic and un-Star-Wars and it became laughable pretty quick,.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:16
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Esroc posted:I agree that they weren't handled very well and were also laughably un-Star Wars, but as far as fictional alien races go they're in my top five. Their technology and history was fun to read about and I enjoyed considering the implications of a masochistic race of body-modifiers who accomplished the same things other races did but by using animals and genetic modification instead of machines and computers. Remove the Star Wars aspect and, to me at least, their concept is one of the most interesting and original alien races to ever grace science fiction. They're really not original. Their basic concept is just taking a 'evil savage race" like are a dime-a-dozen in lovely fantasy novels and transplanting them to Star Wars. They basically hit all the same notes right down to conveniently having animals that match up with technology. Considering R. A. Salvatore, a noted lovely Fantasy Writer, came up with their concept, I don't think that is a coincidence.
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Mar 10, 2014 03:34
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I think the safe bet would be that everything that isn't the films or a television series is 100% noncanon until explicitly stated otherwise. I doubt Starkiller is ever getting his plot resolved.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:34
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Esroc posted:The ridicule EU proponents are facing now rubs me the wrong way. Why is it so hard to understand that a lot of us devoted a lot of time and tons of money to a universe that has been officially ended? Yeah, it's not going anywhere but nothing new will ever be added to it again. That universe was a big part of a lot of peoples lives for decades and it's dead. Because the EU was awful. Like really, really, really awful. Many people who enjoyed it enjoyed it while recognizing it was pulp at the best of times and that actually recognizing most of it as canon would involve recognizing some incredibly dumb things as 'canonical.' That is basically the big thing I suspect is the gap between like, Nu52 and the end of the Star Wars EU. There is so little redeeming value in the Star Wars EU that even people who really like it can only name a few things they hope make the carry over to the new universe, most of which are written by Timothy Zahn. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 01:22
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Casimir Radon posted:Taking the good with the bad it's still like your favorite tv show was cancelled after being on for 20 years. Well, I can't speak for other people, but there are very very few long-running shows I've watched where I didn't feel a distinct sense of relief that it ended before it got much worse. Lord knows that when the Simpsons is finally off the air, my feeling is going to be "about loving time" and not "fare thee well, Simpsons, you were taken too soon." And it isn't like this is the end of Star Wars material in general. It's the end of this very specific realm of EU and anything significantly popular enough will probably find its way to the new EU in some form or another.
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May 6, 2014 01:36
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