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So would I like this series if I find mary-sue type characters really annoying?
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Feb 21, 2011 04:24
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Doltos posted:I'm not sure if its part of Rothfuss's storytelling where every group of people acts identical to each other (posh nobles are all assholes, women are all self-confident creatures that want to bone him, all of Ademre are quiet warriors, all mercenaries and soldiers are greasy, thieving slobs, all villagers are mistrusting and hate outsiders, all musicians are talented and nice) or if it's the whole unreliable narrator thing where Kvothe is horribly biased. Ok, the only reason I'm not banning you for this is that everyone else has already done such a hilarious job of humiliating you. Don't post about the Roma again in this forum.
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Jun 27, 2014 20:12
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Ok, why is this thread generating literally all of the reports for this forum from the past two weeks? What's wrong? Is this turning into the next ASoIaF thread or some poo poo? Why can't you all just get along? Just because Rothfuss writes bad novels doesn't mean you have to write bad posts Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 05:20
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Groovelord Neato posted:It could be that the vast majority of reports in this thread, and probably on the whole forums, are baseless. For reference, this forum generates an average of about one report a week, and I have to probate someone about once a month ( usually just for drunkposting). When I see like eight reports over the course of a single week, all from one thread, and most of them from different people, it's pretty clear there's *some* kind of problem. Unfortunately if the problem is "make Rothfuss write good again" I can't do much about that. For the record I have no real opinion on Rothfuss because I haven't gotten around to reading him yet. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 18:44
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OK, I'm starting to understand the problem I think. For clarity, the forum rules prohibit low content posts and "empty" flaming and personal attacks. In practical terms, this is something awful: you can say horribly mean things here so long as you are *also* funny and/or making an interesting or useful point that adds to the discussion. If you aren't, don't.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:50
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Mary Sue could be her own thread, but generally my understanding is that if they have a character flaw of any kind, they're not a Mary Sue. Honor Harrington is a Mary Sue because she's perfect at everything, including morality, and anyone who disagrees with her about anything is actually evil. Sherlock Holmes, for example, has plenty of character flaws. Wild mood swings, cocaine use, sometimes he fucks up cases and people die as a result, etc. "Mary Sue" isn't just a synonym for "talented and skilled protagonist."
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Feb 3, 2016 23:08
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There are a number of cases where Holmes is either wrong or suffers a major setback. He fails to recover the treasure in The Sign of Four, he allows Henry Baskerville to be injured by the dog, he is flat out wrong in The Yellow Face, his client dies in The Dancing Men after he explicitly promises to keep them safe, etc. He's also a giant rear end in a number of stories (seducing the maid in Charles Augustus Milverton, etc.). Have we had a Sherlock Holmes thread at any point? I highly recommend the modern annotated Holmes edited by Leslie Klinger.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:39
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Gavriel's best book is Lions of Al-Rassan. At his best he can do really excellent characterization.
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Feb 5, 2016 13:17
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Odette posted:I believe this to be more accurate. Unfortunately I'm not sure if it's possible to do strikethroughs in thread titles.
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Feb 5, 2016 13:17
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Talk about the books you retards Please end the slapfight k thx Going to ask everyone to go re-read the forum rules, specifically quote:
If you do make personal attacks at least try to make them funny Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 06:38
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Couple notes, folks -- Moderator hat ON, even though I'm getting to the reports a few pages late. 1) I don't care if you want to yell at JivJov about his horrible taste or opinions but don't use the word "retard," etc., to do it. As he said above, "ableist slurs." This is something I will hand out probations for if it continues. It's a personal pet peeve of mine: On the one hand people with down's syndrome don't deserve to be compared to lovely posters, and on the other hand, it gives the lovely posters ammunition to distract from their lovely opinions and inevitably derails threads. 2) don't loving encourage suicide. That's really a drama bomb I do not want to have to deal with, ok? Thanks. 3) If you do insist on flaming people, do it in an intelligent way and ground it in discussion of some kind of text. Flaming is allowed but not content-free flaming. Make it funny or make it smart. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 11:59
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:If you think genre fiction is good, why are you in this thread where it's regularly savaged? Are you just stupid? I'm in this thread because it keeps getting reported I just read waaay more of this thread than I wanted to trying to figure out why it's generating like more than half of all the reports I get, and while I was reading it, it somehow got even worse I think these guys get it: SpacePig posted:It's a really stupid argument . . . with the dynamic of a lovely adult yelling at a child for not enjoying a thing correctly. Solice Kirsk posted:I change my mind. I don't wanna drink with either of you. HIJK posted:
Please stop the personal slapfighting, it's getting tedious. Stop and think: is your post about a book, or is it about a poster? This is the forum for discussion of books.
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Sep 4, 2017 17:32
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Pigs will digest everything in a human body except tooth enamel. So you'll have to fish those out afterwards.
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Sep 5, 2017 05:04
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anilEhilated posted:I've read a theory somewhere around here that genre distictions are more of a matter of marketing than content; seems to fit. If you want to look for "literary" fantasy, you'll probably want to dig into "literature" as well; there's good amount of magic in there. This is basically where I fall,with the additional codicil that a book can belong to a "genre" and still be "literary" or "high art" (however you define that). See, e.g., Raymond Chandler's essay "The Simple Art of Murder": quote:
http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/scans/chandlerart.html Lightning Lord posted:There's a weird disconnect between the more strident enthusiasts of popular genre literature and artistic literature that just isn't present in any other medium, or at least that's what I've seen. A gulf that just can't seem to be crossed. The "high art" / "low art" distinction is present in other mediums (classical music vs. popular music, for example) it's just gotten broken down a lot more most other places. A big part of it is that "good writing" is defined differently depending on the purpose of the writing. If you follow Strunk and White's Elements of Style religiously your writing will end up at about 4th grade reading level, not because you're a dumb fourth grader, but because your writing is so clear that even a fourth grader can grasp it. That's one kind of good writing. On the other hand, it isn't the only kind of good writing, and prose style is just one aspect of novel-writing and arguably one of the less important. Way I see it, there's something to learn from almost anything I can read; a book with a bad prose style might still have interesting characterization, and a book with bad prose style and bad characterization can at least teach me something about how to avoid bad prose and bad characterization; if I can't learn from a books' virtues, I can learn from its mistakes. The important thing therefore is just to keep reading . . . and it's easier for people to do that if they're reading books they enjoy. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 12:40
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Solice Kirsk posted:OK, someone please tell me what makes a book either "literature" or "genre writings." Is it the perceived talent that went into making it? Does it become literature when academics declare it to be so? I honestly don't know. If it's in the "literature" section at Barnes & Noble and/or has a Flesch-Kincaid readability score above the graduate level, it's littrachaw. If it has a wizard, raygun, or detective in it, it's genre.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:12
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M_Gargantua posted:I think you're being sarcastic here. I hope. Is sarcasm even possible on the internet? I am what I seem
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Sep 6, 2017 16:23
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Benson Cunningham posted:Sherlock Holmes is genre trash? technically he's a superhero comic 1) issued in monthly booklet form 2) has a costume (deerstalker, pipe) 3) costume derives from illustrations, not text (sidney paget's illustrations) 4) Has a sidekick (Watson) and a nemesis (Moriarty) 5) has a superpower (deductive reasoning) 6) fights crime 7) dies and returns from the dead Even Arthur Conan Doyle wanted to stop writing Holmes stories and wished people would pay attention to his "literary" works and historical fiction, like The White Company.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:27
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HIJK posted:Literature is usually deemed literature about 75+ years after the death of the original author. That can't be right. Oprah told me Johnathan Franzen's Freedom was the next Great American Novel like the week it was published.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:41
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TV Zombie posted:Are these works any good or entertaining as a read? No living human being knows, everyone gets distracted and reads Sherlock Holmes instead fake edit: actually The Lost World is pretty boss and the source material for several excellent MST3k episodes real edit: actually I was thinking of The Land that Time Forgot my bad Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 17:52
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"Genre fiction" is an almost entirely modern development despite those kind of false equivocations. It's easily dismissed simply by noting that it's actually impossible to name the "genres" that Chaucer and Dickens wrote in. Eh, you've got a decent point here but again it depends on how you define genre and "genre fiction." I mean, Dickens wrote at least half of a murder mystery novel (The Mystery of Edwin Drood) and Jane Austen essentially invented the romance novel genre (while writing at least one riff on the Gothic Novel as well, Northanger Abbey). You could even argue that the ancient greeks were already dividing things into "genres" -- see, e.g., Artistotle's Poetics. But you're right that the idea of "genre fiction" as a marketing category is a relatively recent development. Austen wasn't setting out to write "genre fiction," but Georgette Heyer was. edit: you also can make a stab at genres for Chaucer if you're willing to use what his contemporaries would have thought of as genres rather than modern ones; few people today would recognize "dream visions" as a genre, but Chaucer's contemporaries would have. For example, the Wife of Bath's tale falls within Arthurian romance. There's a good breakdown of Chaucer's works by "genre" here: http://faculty.winthrop.edu/kosterj/engl511/genreinchaucer.htm Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:49
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HIJK posted:Lifetime original movies have a lot of Dickens territory covered what with death, massive debt, social commentary, homelessness, family drama... Dickens didn't realize it, but he was actually writing Broadway / Disney musicals. Oliver!
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Sep 6, 2017 20:07
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ZombieLenin posted:That's it. I demand fantasy literature in untranslated Middle English. Ok, best I can do https://www.amazon.com/Sir-Gawain-Green-Knight-Tolkien/dp/0198114869 Note that this is not the same as Tolkien's translation -- this is the original ME text with Tolkien's notes and annotations
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Sep 6, 2017 21:18
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ZombieLenin posted:This is amazing. Now if only I could read Middle English. It's a lot easier to learn ME or even OE than it seems at first. Especially for ME it's more a matter of learning the pronunciation shifts and typographical changes than anything else. Specifically reading Sir Gawaine is both easier and more difficult than reading Chaucer because modern English is largely derived from Chaucer's London dialect, whereas Sir Gawaine was written in a different dialect that seems less familiar; because of that though you tend to get better and more thorough notes and annotations, so it balances out. It's definitely something you could teach yourself the basics of with a few afternoons of googling and some relevant youtube tutorials. Once you learn that þ means th and a few other handles everything's a lot more comprehensible. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/Gawain?rgn=main&view=fulltext See? Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 17:17
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Eela6 posted:
Miranda is just a huge nerd Lots of arty theater and music nerds love Rothfuss for some reason
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Oct 6, 2017 18:53
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Did this thread just bug out for anyone else?
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Oct 6, 2017 22:08
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so no matter what three unread posts in here now unreadable?
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Oct 6, 2017 23:52
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Is there anyone left in this thread who 1) actually likes rothfuss, and 2) is willing to make a new thread
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Oct 7, 2017 04:45
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y'all are why your parents drink
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Oct 7, 2017 19:08
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