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Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

I live just outside of Ellsworth AFB, so this thread is all sorts of awesome.

Not the best picture (in fact it's pretty terrible) , but I do love it when things like this happen.



I really need to get out to the local Air and Space museum and get some decent pictures, it's small but there's some interesting planes there.

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Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Also, B-1's basically are the best. If you're ever by Ellsworth you should try golfing at the golf course. It's not the best course at all, but it's amazing teeing off as a B-1 comes in for a landing or some A-10's circle around.

I also got to use the B-1 simulator they have on base, which was great. Apart from the fact that I got the controls second, and the person before me managed to screw up the plane getting his angle of attack too high. It's a real bitch trying to fly one of those 200 feet off the ground at mach 1 when it's impossible to trim at all. :argh:

And here's another picture.

Click here for the full 1680x1049 image.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

I love my golf course.


Click here for the full 1600x1200 image.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Sunday Punch posted:



A little more modern than this other stuff, but a wind tunnel model of the F-117 with external stores is pretty neato. These are conformal, stealthy cruise missiles with flip out fins.



And with LGBs. I don't know how useful this would have been, carrying the weapons externally would have blown your stealth to poo poo, negating the whole point of using an F117. Why not just use an F-15E or something and carry way more bombs, way faster, on a platform that can defend itself?





My guess is that they were just trying to see how unfeasible it was so that they had the data on file somewhere when a big wig decided to ask. Especially since it looks like someone just glued some LGB's onto the conformal cruise missiles in that picture.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

The best part about being in South Dakota is being next to a whole bunch of B-1B's. Was always great when my high school would host a golf tournament and a B1 would take off, since the course is probably a mile away from the runway, if not less.

Cell Phone pic to give you an idea of how close this golf course is to the runway.


And some older pictures that I think I've posted before and decided to put on imgur in case the old ones in the thread die.
The view from my back porch:

Wheeee




I've gotten to fly in the B1 simulator that they have on the base as well. Flying one of those 50-100 feet above the ground going at speed is a wild ride.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Plinkey posted:

Did the Sim let you run the controls at that altitude?


It did. It also simulated the broken controls that happened when the guy who had the stick before me flew. 100 feet off the ground without the ability to trim for level flight was wild, but didn't last long.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

So there's an air show at Ellsworth this weekend. Going to have to leave for work before all the performances are done, but there's going to be a B-2, F-22, and these guys http://www.migfuryfighters.com/ . Hopefully they fly before I have to leave for work, but times haven't been posted for the performances yet. Probably going miss the Viper West demo too, which is a real shame. They were awesome last time they were out here. 600mph passes from an F-16 never get old.

Hopefully I'll get some good pictures this time though.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Vatek posted:

Did somebody say low pass?

Yeah, this guy did.


On another note, I found out today that the last flying FJ-4 will be at the airshow tomorrow :toot:

e. Just had 2 migs and the fj-4 fly right over my house but my phones sd card filled up right before that, so my video got nothing :negative:

e2. watching an old Mig fly right over your house, then bank over into a turn with fire coming out the tailpipe is amazing.

Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 3, 2011

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Slo-Tek posted:

Is this the one they belly-landed the other year? I'm surprised they got it back up and going.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuKgAcOD2Q

Yeah, that looks like the same one. Seemed to be flying fine today, hopefully I get a chance to see it again tomorrow.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Got some good pictures today, but it's going to take me forever to sort through them. Here's an FJ-4 and a MiG-17 though, both are clicky for full size.


Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Not nose art, but the South Dakota F-16's have some nifty tail art, at least compared to most planes I see. (click on any of them for giant size)



Also, some more Mig and Fury action.




Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

drat, he put that plane down perfectly it looks like, they just couldn't put the fire out in time to save it. :smith:




Edit: Got some more pictures from the air show I went to processed here. Click for original size.

B-2 Stealth Bomber, I was pretty surprised how close they let us get. I remember last time they brought one in they kept it parked practically on the runway.


TC-135, if I remember right.



A cruise missile of some kind.



B-1 panorama.



B-25 and a TBF Avenger, I believe.



Front shot of the B-25



Another shot of the Avenger with the Mig-17 in the background.



They were cool planes, ok?



Those L-39's like flying low.



Seriously. Made it hard to see at times they were so low.



And flying in formation. While low (taking off now, but they did a lot of great low level formation flying). Some good footage of their stuff here, my favorite is probably about 7 minutes in when the solo jet does a slow barrel roll around the diamond flight. Really good for an all civilian team (of mostly retired military pilots). Video didn't seem to do justice to how low they were going when I saw them.



C-31s' are weird looking. In a good way.



Big shot of the B-1's bomb bay. One of them, at least, with a rotary launcher mounted.



Even the Coast Guard showed up, in the middle of South Dakota that's not something you see every day. Dwarfed by the Galaxy though.



To be fair the Galaxy dwarfed everything.



The C-17 had it beat for shear amount of... stuff sticking out.



Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 14, 2011

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

durtan posted:

I was wondering if any of you guys would be interested in some pics I took of the B-17 AluminumOvercast when it came to town a couple months back. I know it's technically not Cold War material, so I thought I'd ask first.

It is airpower though! I'd be interested in them at least.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

That's awesome.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Propagandalf posted:

You've never heard a B-1, have you?

My high school golf tournaments were always the best because of this. The kids from other schools would be bitching about the wind (who needs trees on top of this hill that always has 30mph winds psh) and then a B-1 would start doing flyovers right over the 2nd hole. Or that tourney where some A-10's buzzed us.

Nothing beat the time when I went golfing the afternoon after they had used the course for some first aid training on the base though, but hadn't cleaned it up yet. Teeing off onto a fairway that has fake injured bodies scattered about is pretty eerie, especially with B-1's still flying around.

Also my house is covered in random cracks from the stress the noise puts on the house. It's worthless painting over them or putting putty down to cover them up either. You get used to the noise though.

e. F-16's are more annoying though, it's that high pitched whine that always confuses me when I hear it.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Execu-speak posted:

This thread is great, maybe someone in here can answer something I was pondering the other day.

What ever happened to the SU-47 with the forward swept wings, are they still trialling it or has the project pretty much been dumped?

Pretty sure it's been dumped, with the focus being on the PAK.FA.

e. The T-50, this sexy guy.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Shoot, I live about as close to Ellsworth as you can get without being on base (literally less than a mile from the runway, closer to the runway than most of the base housing is, especially after they removed some of the unused buildings).

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

iyaayas01 posted:

With the rest of the family:




Every time I see an Su-34 I'm amazed that they took a Flanker and somehow wound up with a plane that could sit 2 people with room to lay down AND have a toilet for the crew to use. It's mind boggling.

e. Seriously, look how roomy that cockpit is :psyduck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htZNLezBG60&feature=player_detailpage#t=40s, and on top of that it seems that you can move around above the landing gear area while you're in the air too.

Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Aug 17, 2011

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

What's this about minutemen?


DSC_0012.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr
This one is on display at the air and space museum outside of Ellsworth, wasn't a great time of day for pictures so everything came out a bit... I dunno. Old looking?

Here's an F-84F.


DSC_0159.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

This guy was an EC-135, specifically one of the Looking Glass aircraft based out of Ellsworth to act as an airborne CnC point.


DSC_0018.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

They also had an F-86 that was in the process of being restored. Happy looking guy.

DSC_0088.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

And they also had one of these tucked away in the back. A B-26K Counter Invader (or A-26K, if you're in Thailand) that was used during Vietnam. Only 40 or so of these were made in the first place.


DSC_0097.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

This was an EB-57 Canberra.


DSC_0100.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

And this was a bit older than Cold War, but it happens to be a B-25 that was converted to act as Eisenhower's personal transport. They lowered the bomb bay to make more room inside, and what was left of the bay was fitted with a fuel tank, behind that there were some folding seats and a table as big as they could fit (it folded), and the rear entry hatch was made easier to get in and out of. On top of that the whole thing was insulated and soundproofed to current commercial aircraft standards. Or so the card in front of the plane says.

DSC_0072.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

In other news I haven't heard a B-1 take off in a few weeks (the runway is being repaved or something). I'm starting to notice commercial planes flying overhead and other quiet noises. It's starting to weird me out.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

thesurlyspringKAA posted:

Why do you think we still need huge intercontinental bombers?

EDIT: and its so easy to load a bomber with nukes that they do it on accident sometimes!

Because it's quicker to get a B-52 or B-1 or B-2 loaded with cruise missiles in range of some place than it is to move a sub into position.

fake e. Also because B-1's sound awesome taking off and it's weird as gently caress not hearing them.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

If we're talking about writers that went insane you could talk about Dale Brown. Why yes, Russia just nuked nearly every military site in the US and then convinced the president to not retaliate. Better call in the remote controlled b-52's to invade russia on their ow- gently caress why did I read those books.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

mlmp08 posted:

WWII bombers are just so little....

Yeah, it's only 2 feet longer than an Su-35. I've got a B-17 model and an su-35 model and it's confusing as hell seeing them right next to each other, they don't look like they should be the same scale.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

ming-the-mazdaless posted:

I think the APKWS relies on an avionics package though I can't see why it couldn't be integrated.
New generation hellfires come in a variety of different flavours don't they? They aren't all tank busters if I am not mistaken, and not all missions are panel truck recycling. Besides, I believe it's slated for Mokopa integration first up, which if claims hold up, gives this lightweight a 10km stand-off capability. Not an entirely useless feature in any number of mission profiles.

I'm fascinated by the concept, and would really like to see what comes of this.




Exactly. A lot cheaper though, given the infrastructure required for an adequate drone system.
I don't believe the intent is to be a drone alternative though.

It reminds me of a backwards OV-10. Without all the cool factor. (click for big)

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

jwoven posted:

The Sukhoi was ugly the second they put canards on it.

Look at how wrong you are.



So sad that they pulled the canards from the production version of the -35 though.

Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 25, 2012

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

jwoven posted:

Only looks good from that angle because you can't see the canards :v:

Gross:



Hooray:



They're both awesome. :colbert:

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Party Plane Jones posted:

Aren't most of the F-111 problems mainly in the carrier/B variants?

Yeah. :buddy:

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

FrozenVent posted:

How do you keep the laser pointed at a fast moving target? Like say an angry A-10?

One other thing is that the laser you're shooting out doesn't necessarily have to be focused on a single point. You could have a wider angle beam so that instead of keeping a pencil sized dot on a target you're dealing with keeping part of a large circle on top of the target.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

TheNakedJimbo posted:

It's time for a Kfir Post.

Back in the late 60s and early 70s, Israel needed...well, everything: guns, tanks, planes, etc. At that point in time, France was Israel's greatest supporter, and Israel's air force was heavily comprised of French craft: the Mirage, the Ouragon bomber, and the Mystere. The Mirages in particular were used in the opening stages of the Six-Day War, which were a massive victory for Israel, but the war and the "War of Attrition" that followed resulted in the loss of some 50 Mirages. By this stage, diplomatic tides were ebbing, and France didn't particularly want to prop up Israel anymore.

So Israel "acquired" the plans to the Mirage, with the goal of reverse-engineering. Depending who you ask, they were either helped along by Dassault staff, or else they pulled off the most audacious industrial espionage in history, snagging thousands upon thousands of pages worth of diagrams and blueprints. What they built was this fellow:



Meet the Kfir. It was never quite as successful as Israel wanted it to be, since the year after it entered service, Israel got some F-15s, and by the time of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, most of their air force was American-made planes. The Kfir, capable though it was, never stood a chance, and became destined for export. That's where I want to start my exploration.



Only three countries bought the Kfir: Colombia, Ecuador, and Sri Lanka. Pictured is a FAC (Fuerza Aerea Colombiana) Kfir, identified as "Cachorro de Leon," Lion Cub, the plane's Israeli nickname.



If it looks like this photo is very recent, that's because it is. The Kfir was not only active in the Ecuadorean air force until the 90s, but it was actually involved in a war between Ecuador and Peru during 1994:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenepa_War

It's extremely difficult to figure out what actually happened in that war, as both sides have differing accounts and claim kills that the other side denies, but it appears that an Ecuadorean Kfir did score an air-to-air kill on a Cessna A-37, and Peru claims to have shot down a Kfir two days later.

I think it's amazing that in 1991, the United States was rolling into Iraq with F-117s and B-2s, while three years later Ecuador and Peru were duking it out with Kfirs and Korea-era Soviet helicopters.



Many of the exported Kfirs were modified with front canards, Rafale/Typhoon style.

Now let's give a little bit of love to the Peruvian air force, who have obviously modernized somewhat since Cenepa:


If you scroll on back up and check out the first Kfir picture I posted, you'll notice some "ATAC" markings on the tail fin. ATAC is a civilian company, so small it doesn't even have its own Wikipedia page, which provides "airborne tactical training, threat simulation, and research and development." They still fly their Kfirs; just earlier this month, one was lost in an accident and the pilot was killed. It sounds like they basically contract to do the Dissimilar Air Combat Training at naval air stations around the United States.

Didn't the US buy a few Kfirs to use in aggressor training? I could swear I've seen pics of Kfir's in marine or air force markings.

e. A quick googling says that 25 were leased from 85-89, some to the Navy and some to the Marines.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Did someone say Sensor Fuzed Weapons?

This is a pretty cool video talking about the sub-munition, it's pretty awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKdFCsycYm8

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Frozen Horse posted:

To repurpose an old joke about waiters, bartenders, lovers, pop singers, and cops:

In heaven, the aerodynamics are Italian, the hydraulics are German, the avionics are Swedish, the engines are French, and the pilot is British.
In hell, the aerodynamics are German, the hydraulics are British, the avionics are Italian, the engines are Swedish, and the pilot is French.
Or something like that, I'm sure that exceptions abound and there are ugly Italian planes and great French pilots but e.g. British companies have earned a reputation for making oil leak from systems that didn't even contain any.

And in purgatory everything is made by Lockheed-Martin.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

priznat posted:

The question is, if they did detect it what could they do about it? Can standard missiles intercept stuff that low? Can harpoons hit a target moving that quickly?

Could be the best defense would be the 5" gun in that case. Only problem is that would be well within range of whatever surface to surface missiles it had on board and could let rip.

(not counting if there was air defense up at the time)

It was made to launch this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskit , which has a 120km range and travels at mach 3. Still, a Hawkeye I would imagine could spot one from further than 120km out, at least nowadays. Would still probably be hard to intercept one that far out though.

e. The other thing is that I'm pretty sure the ekranoplane was meant more for operating in the black sea, so it probably wouldn't be tasked for attacking carrier groups, but more for smaller surface ships, and then making it enough of a threat that we wouldn't try sailing a carrier group into the black sea. Against smaller groups of ships I bet it could have been fairly effective.

Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 3, 2012

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

FrozenVent posted:

We had Macs when I grew up, so after Chuck Yeager, it was A-10 Attack! all the way for me.

The best thing about that game is that it allowed you to reload in flight for some reason. So you'd empty out everything that fit on your A-10 (And you could fit A. LOT.) and just refil the drat plane with whatever you needed.

Also had an F/A-18 simulator, I think the campaign was in Iraq... Allowed you to drop a nuclear bomb in the final mission, but I can't remember the name of it.

I should look around my parent's, I think I still have the CYAC manual somewhere.

Maybe a microprose game? I know they liked having nukes in their flight sims. Pretty sure every campaign in F-22 Lightning 3 ended with you nuking something.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

grover posted:

Why is Yuri Gagarin on that list? And others killed in plane or car crashes unrelated to spaceflight?

It's a list of people killed while involved with spaceflight, whether or not they died in space or in training or other ways, so you got your name on there if you died while flying in space, flying your t-38, or just flying down the road in your car.

If I remember right there was a big issue with that memorial because they tried selling copies of the figurines after the fact too.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Crossposting from the AI airplane thread, cause most of this is cold war stuff.

I went back to the local air and space museum, and had the time to go inside today. 2 things I noticed: the interior displays were vastly improved since the last time I was there and they were doing poo poo tons of restoration/preservation to the planes outside.

First, look at this plane as seen in August 2011.


DSC_0088.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

And today:


DSC_0692.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

Before:

DSC_0100.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

After:


DSC_0694.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

Before:


DSC_0097.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

During (they were working on stripping this guy down and building it back up)


DSC_0698.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

And tons more than that. Basically everything was having the cockpits and other parts sealed off from the elements, all new paint on the landing gears, holes patched up. It was wonderful. Now onto other stuff.

BONE


DSC_0587.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

DAT rear end

DSC_0597.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

This was one of the engines used in the B-1A program. Only 23 built (this isn't a replica).


DSC_0631.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

F-111 porn.


DSC_0717.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr


DSC_0713.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

Forget the model.


DSC_0599.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

b83 nuclear weapon. The sign claimed that you can fit one of these on an F-22, but I dunno how. It was big. Would be hilarious to see though.


DSC_0602.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

Genie Air to Air nuclear weapon.


DSC_0603.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

BDU-38 practice bomb, designed to mimic the flightpath of a nuke.


DSC_0604.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

I imagine an F-22 carrying that B83 from earlier would look something like a B-52 carrying a pair of these. AGM-28 Hound Dog. Thing was massive.


DSC_0627.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

Finally, a Texan (I think) parked in front of the prop off of a B-36. B-36 were loving huge.


DSC_0628.jpg by MrDespair, on Flickr

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Memento1979 posted:

Air to air nuclear weapon, huh. Anti massed bomber formations? Because we can?

Because we can.

Boomerjinks posted:

Is this air museum at Ellsworth? I seem to recall seeing all those nukes on display inside their main building, and the fake B-2 from a 90s car commercial out front.

That's the right one. The fake B-2's gone though,j it was in horrible condition and wasn't worth restoring (especially since it cleared up space to fit the B-1B there. )

Now they just need to get a B-36 somehow. Here's something they are restoring though, a Delta Dagger http://www.ellsworth.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070130-141.pdf

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

mlmp08 posted:

Somehow seeing one in person doesn't make it seem more real.



There is so much concentrated insanity in that picture.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

1) What's wrong with saitek's midrange gear?

2) http://riseofflight.com/en Rise of Flight is supposed to be quite good for ww1 flight.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

I think the x52 is still around the $100 mark. Thrustmaster does make a $40 hotas setup http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-...ords=saitek+x52 though I can't vouch for the quality. Those seem to be the two main options for cheap hotas setups, although there's plenty of single joysticks out there if you don't a throttle.

It is definetly still an expensive gadget though, most of the really cool stuff out there is in the 200 dollar and up range.

I use an x52 myself, and it's been ok.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Yeah, I looked at these guys a while ago. Off the top of my head:

1) I'm kind of tired of the F2P model. I'd rather just drop $50 now than keep dishing out for new aircraft, campaigns, etc piecemeal.

2) I really, really want some kind of long-term campaign. The sense of progression that you got from firing up a new guy in 1916 in RB3D, keeping track of his career as he progressed, using new aircraft as they historically became available, eventually getting promoted high enough to be squadron commander and unlocking a few decisions that you could make per-mission about the loadouts etc for your other pilots - all that was really neat. Just firing up missions and shooting things down absent of that structure always seems empty to me.

I know I"m being picky as gently caress, but I just miss the types of games that I played the gently caress out of as a kid. Aces over Europe/the Pacific, RB3d, European Air War, hell even the older Lucasarts stuff like SWOTL and BB:TFH.

Pretty sure rise of flight has a career mode now, I don't know how in depth it is as far as choices or unlocks, but it'll let you be a pilot on day to day missions.

Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 22, 2012

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

grover posted:

Su-37 is a ton bigger than the Mig-29. 72x48' vs 57x27' and weighs about 50% more, too. F-14 is kinda in the middle between them, 64x38'.

It never ceases to amaze me that single seat fighters nowadays are as long as a b-17.

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Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

movax posted:

Any handy photos of a 4.5 gen fighter next to a B-17 on the ground or in the air? I can see on wiki that:

B-17G: 74 ft
F-15C: 63 ft
F-16C: 49 ft
P-51D: 31 ft

Not quite as long, but still enormous considering that a modern fighter is close in size to a heavy bomber from 30 years ago (from design start of the -15/-16).

I'll have to look for some, but I know an su-35 is 74 feet long as well. Don't think I"m going to find a pic of a flanker and a b-17 flying together though.

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