AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Took me about a month after discovering this thread existed to work my way through it but I'm caught up now. Since this book hasn't been linked yet, allow me to do the honours: http://www.amazon.com/Hunter-Killers-Iain-Ballantyne/dp/1409144186

Iain Ballantyne has written a history of the Royal Navy's SSN fleet and their role during the cold war gathering intelligence off the coast of the USSR. The RN shared the job with the USN, but apparently the Americans would rotate subs so each one only ever did one cruise up there, whereas the British subs would make repeated visits. There's some great stuff about the Perisher course too. I'm currently rereading it so I can review it for Lawyers Guns and Money, will link that in here if there's interest when I finally get around to it.

Another interesting and related book is Cabinets and the Bomb: http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780197264225.do

It's a collection of documents from the archives detailing the discussions that the UK government went through when deciding to develop a nuclear deterrent and then the repeated discussions that happened every few years after that when they had to choose to either keep funding it/renew it, or disarm. Regardless of which party was in power, the Treasury would usually lobby against Blue Streak/Polaris/Trident and the MoD would obviously take the other approach, and obviously each time they won the day.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 17:22

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 18:04

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Koesj posted:

I really couldn't get into Hunter Killers, unfortunately. Blind Man's Bluff, which I liked, has the same kind of chronological vignette style going on, but somehow Ballantyne's book put me off stylistically.

What's your quick take on it? I'm definitely interested in a full review since it might help me get unstuck from being only 28% in.

The first time I read it I really enjoyed it. This time around found myself wondering how much he was reconstructing from memoirs, log books and diaries etc. But I'd say it's worth slogging through.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 00:06

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

iyaayas01 posted:

Since I know there's a couple folks who speak DoD acquisitions in the thread, here's a funny that happened a little while ago. We were on a telecon that was intended to brief the PEO of readiness to enter a major OT&E event. After the SPOviets got through their brief to their boss the O-6 "customer" rep (guy who represents the "warfighter") chimed in with how this was all pretty cool, but how he really didn't have an immediate operational need to field any of the system that was going to be under OT&E any time soon.

PEO responds with how that's good info but that he'd hate for the contractor to hear that detail.

*whisper*"Sir they're on the line."*whisper*

We all just about died we were laughing so hard, thankfully our end was on mute.

I work in a different bit of the .gov but this week am at a couple of workshops held by our counterparts at DoD and boy do they love using those words. Thanks to GiP I don't need a translator card.

I do love all the anonymous office suites in Crystal City where these meetings are. Featureless corridors with doors that have no numbers or signs but keypad locks. And all connected by that bizarro mall that's like something out of A Boy and His Dog.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2015 00:48

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

iyaayas01 posted:

Yeah, more or less. They're still hammering out the details of the upkeep for the deck (overhaul/repair intervals, stuff like that) but prior to declaring IOC they flew them off of the Wasp for a couple weeks back in May.

Granted they were operating in an "operational" manner that basically involved taking off, doing a couple laps around the ~~carrier~~ gator freighter, and then landing....but it at least can fly off of the amphibs.

That said their MC rate was apparently abysmal according to DOT&E.....so yeah, again, "operational."

Also they aren't Marine ships, they most definitely belong to the Navy. USMC: the nation's premier expeditionary force.....that has to hitch a ride to get anywhere. But don't worry, the MAGTF is completely self sufficient (minus that pesky logistics stuff)!

fake edit: That Jane's story contains a doozy of a statement by a USMC PAO: "Although some of the report is factually accurate, the marine corps does not agree with all of the conclusions and opinions"

"We don't dispute your facts, we just prefer to draw a different conclusion"

real edit: Also just a reminder that the USMC is declaring IOC with the 2B OFP...which is hopelessly flawed and never should have seen the light of day outside of a pure test environment, also it isn't going to be fixed because thanks to concurrency/limited test assets the program has to choose between fixing 2B or continuing development on 3i and 3F with rolling the 2B fixes into those later OFPs. It's a no-brainer choice that in a normal program wouldn't even be a choice because 2B would be a pure T&E OFP.

But USMC Aviation is (as usual) full steam ahead retard on declaring IOC with an immature system, so now the 2B deficiencies are an operational problem.

Does 2B mean it's the same configuration as the one that totally didn't fail in that AoA test that David Axe made everyone cross with?

# ¿ Aug 2, 2015 17:29

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Captain von Trapp posted:

It's just slightly less ridiculous than writing out "soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines", while still not offending anyone by omission.

As stupid as it reads, it's even worse when you're in meetings with DoD people and they keep saying it out loud.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2015 03:56

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

FrozenVent posted:

It's worth a read but it's not as mind blowing as Command and Control.

Really? I would say exactly the opposite. It's not quite as accessible as C&C but far more fascinating about just what the Soviets were building (and may still have operating).

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 00:33

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Sperglord Actual posted:

The US Department of Defense has spent $43m (�28m) on a vehicle fuelling station in Afghanistan, according to a recently published oversight report.

Not just a fueling station, a loving compressed natural gas filling station. Because there's so much demand in Afghanistan to convert their land cruisers to LPG...

# ¿ Nov 3, 2015 04:00

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

DrAlexanderTobacco posted:

One significant problem with CATOBAR on the QE-class is that IIRC diesel powerplants just can't produce the steam required for the cat. QE carriers weren't designed with a nuclear reactor in mind.

When the UK invented the steam catapult it worked from diesels just fine.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2015 15:25

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Trampus posted:

Can anyone recommend a good book to read about US and/or NATO submarines? I recently read, Rising Tide: The Untold Story Of The Russian Submarines That Fought The Cold War and enjoyed some of the stories in it but it was a little too pro-USSR for my tastes.

Yes. Hunter Killers by Iain Ballantyne: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hunter-Killers-Dramatic-Untold-Service/dp/1409144186

# ¿ Nov 29, 2015 00:15

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

It's not that you can't make an argument that Britain would be better off packing in the Independent Deterrent, because you can (I don't personally agree with the idea for a lot of nebulous reasons I should probably think over more despite the issue being None Of My Business). However I doubt Labour would do the sensible thing and use the money saved on Trident to fund a comprehensive strengthening of their conventional forces (I'll give Cameron credit for actually making an attempt to do this with his latest funding increase, despite it being years too late and probably not enough to repair all the damage his bloody stupid 2010 Defence Review did). That money will just go to something else and the conventional forces will be as underfunded and threadbare as ever.

Honestly Corbyn would probably do alright if there was a Jackie Fisher type in charge of the MOD. But there's a great shortage of Fishers these days.

You might be interested in this book, Cabinets and the Bomb. It uses declassified cabinet minutes and other documents to show the continued debate within government over whether to fund the development, upkeep, and then replacement of the nuclear deterrent, going back to 1940. It happens more under Labour governments, but every few years the Treasury wants to cancel it on the grounds of cost but the Foreign Office and MoD persuade them they're wrong.

Incidentally, this rationale for Britain maintaining an independent deterrent actually turns out to have more than a grain of truth in it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 02:24

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

mlmp08 posted:

Austerity.

You can bash Cameron for a lot of things, but every prime minister gives a speech at the Lord Mayor's dinner iirc and they all wear white tie.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 23:44

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

jadebullet posted:

Hey guys, I finally managed to catch up to the end of the thread after months of reading.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion of Command and Control, that was a really interesting book. I was just curious if you guys had any other cold war reading suggestions, or if there are any Soviet counterpart books to Command and Control?

The Dead Hand.

E,f,b.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2016 12:29

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

holocaust bloopers posted:

Yea I'm thinking some Lockheed engineer is looking at the HANS device.

That was my thought too but HANS only controls for lateral movement, and I bet the fighter jocks would refuse to use one since it really does restrict being able to move your head around and look behind you (even though the F-35 has no rear visibility).

# ¿ Mar 27, 2016 18:19

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Fredrick posted:

I'm going to Seattle's Museum of Flight tomorrow, during the free hours (5-9p)!
I have only a tiny idea of what to expect, so if anyone here has any advice on what I should rush to see, or whatever, I'd be glad to hear it!

You can sit in an SR-71 cockpit.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2016 01:06

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

B4Ctom1 posted:

In my EMP fantasy I see them as passive aggressors and saviors.

They provide a complete reset of the American government as it is purged and then rebuilt in it's intended form (whatever that would end up being).

Then as an olive branch, they offer aid, and a request that we consider reopening trade ASAP. With the proof that they are not evil being purely based on that they could have, but refused to, set foot on US soil with anything beyond requested aid.

Pretty sure this was the plot of a TV show called Jericho.

# ¿ May 5, 2016 02:27

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

That Works posted:

Not really fair to blame the Tu-144's pilot for that crash, it hit a French Mirage that wasn't supposed to be there iirc.

# ¿ May 28, 2016 01:39

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Sneak peek of a post I'm putting together for Memorial Day (you can read it at Ars on Monday):

# ¿ May 29, 2016 02:52

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

"Y'see, Cletus Jr.? All that concentrated freedum's inside that there septic tank."

I'm considering stealing that for the caption!

# ¿ May 29, 2016 03:55

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

I guess they'd have been cross with you if you flew the drone over the active minuteman silo?

# ¿ May 30, 2016 11:32

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Who likes warbird porn? http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/a-brace-of-warbirds-to-celebrate-memorial-day/

# ¿ May 30, 2016 17:45

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

shame on an IGA posted:

I still can't get over how the US and Soviet's first jet bomber designs both knocked it so far out of the park that they're both outliving decades of would-be replacements.

The Bear has propellers!

# ¿ Jun 9, 2016 15:54

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Mortabis posted:

The interstate highway system pulls its weight by being useful infrastructure that permits probably trillions of dollars of economic activity to go on. The fact that the government hasn't levied taxes to properly keep it funded does not reduce its value one iota. The interstates may not be paying for themselves in the sense of the federal budget, but they are deeply inframarginal investments that are just clearly worthwhile.

The same can't be said for high speed rail lines. The economic benefit they would provide, never mind ticket revenue, would probably not add up to the cost.

There are, in fact, a lot of people who believe the Apollo program was a ridiculous waste. This is true now, and it was also true at the time. I distinctly remember Tom Lehrer, for instance, dedicating one of his songs in the '60s to ridiculing NASA and the project to, quote, "spend twenty billion dollars of your money to put some clown on the moon." Either way you stand on it, nobody has ever claimed that the Apollo program was supposed to directly return its cost in economic benefits; there is no intangible scientific or symbolic gain to having a publicly subsidized system of high speed railroads for the Bill Kristols of the world to ride around in style.

And I say this as someone who rides a round trip on the Acela about once every couple of months.

Actually, Apollo's ROI has been thoroughly assessed. It worked out to be 7:1; every dollar the government spent on the Apollo program generated $7 in the general economy. ROI is something that lawmakers care about these days since you can't just appeal to the fact that it would make the country better. We used the fact that federal investment in genomics research from the human genome project onwards resulted in an ROI of 178:1 quite frequently when I worked at NIH (in part doing our budget justifications).

# ¿ Jun 14, 2016 21:26

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Kesper North posted:

Do you have a source for this? I would love to be able to cite it at people.

I am positive it was a RAND Corp study on Apollo but not finding it right now. Later I'll see if I can find the folder of PDFs and see if it's in there. The HGP stat is here: https://www.genome.gov/27544383/calculating-the-economic-impact-of-the-human-genome-project/

# ¿ Jun 14, 2016 22:53

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Syd Midnight posted:

Another Brian Shul SR-71 story I had lying around:

I think 15% of this enormous thread is people posting the SR-71 speed check story.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2016 13:36

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Shooting Blanks posted:

A number of pages ago we were discussing privately owned jets. All this Mach talk got me to thinking - what's the fastest plane in private hands?

Apparently these guys have 1 or more Mig-29s

It was probably the English Electric Lightning down in South Africa but I don't think it's flying any more.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2016 20:19

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

A Handed Missus posted:

That bit at the beginning where they're just flying over that beach is so cool.

Now look at dis

COIN Challenger by Lockheed Martin, on Flickr

It looks like a Pucara.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2016 21:52

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

They say never meet your heroes, but that should also apply to never following them on Twitter. Why does Chuck Yeager have to be such a prick?

# ¿ Oct 6, 2016 16:44

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

inkjet_lakes posted:

The South Korean fellow appears to be wearing 80's/90's pattern British Army camo, is it some sort of weird coincidence that they both turned out so similar?

That's not DPM, it's US Woodland camo.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 02:59

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Murgos posted:

So, people are aware that Trump can't unilaterally cancel JSF (or even the Air Force 1 replacement), right?

He could (maybe?) leave it off the budget request, or reduce the request amount but Congress can still appropriate what they want. The president ordering the military not use a lawfully appropriated critical system is probably impeachable under the treason clause for actively leaving the country undefended and bankrupt.

Like most things Trump, it's mostly bullshit.

That's sweet that you think a GOP-controlled Congress would impeach him for anything. The party of Reagan is now A-OK with Russia helping swing the election if it means their team gets a win.

Blind partisanship overrides patriotism in 2016.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 04:19

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

mlmp08 posted:

Now I'm trying to figure out which airports experience the highest incidence of complaints about noise.

This one dude has complained about DCA 6,500 times. https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/former-astronaut-files-1000s-of-noise-complaints-against-reagan-national/

# ¿ Jan 17, 2017 02:10

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Wingnut Ninja posted:

Yeah, it's not just for ballistic missile defense - it also protects us from our age-old enemies, the British.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2017 01:52

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Cat Mattress posted:

The idea that the F-22 is electronically inferior to the F-35 seems weird to me. Sure the F-35 is a bit newer, but most of its electronics is already outdated and/or not fully operational yet.

Does the F-22 even have sensor fusion?

# ¿ Apr 25, 2017 22:00

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

M_Gargantua posted:

You could probably instead choose to say that they gave up on power projection outside their borders. Civil defense against invaders is much cheaper to prepare for than paying for the logistics to have a globe spannin rapid response force like the US has. And consequently they hadn't had to waste much on their defense budget.

Except that's not true about France or the UK either.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 21:07

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Godholio posted:

What exactly is the Royal Navy's current power projection capability? If possible, I'd like an answer from before and after you google it.

The question was in the context of the early Cold War. France and the UK had plenty of military adventures far from home post-Suez.

No one (sane) is arguing that the current RN is anywhere close to being fit for purpose.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 02:30

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

PerrineClostermann posted:

?

You might not have realized this but the entire rest of the world thinks the US is a complete loving joke with no moral authority now that Trump is President. HTH.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2017 10:40

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Right. If you're in that much trouble that you need to start churning out fighters in the hundreds, whomever has got you that worried is never going to give you the chance to hunker down and spend a year or two building them without disruption.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2017 00:43

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

VKing posted:

I love how the stars spell out GO BIG RED in morse.

Aren't the stars usually grouped and meant to be read as numbers?

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 00:31

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Hexyflexy posted:

I finally received my copy of this book, I Could Tell You But Then You Would Have to Be Destroyed By Me: Emblems from the Pentagon's Black World, which is a really neat little coffee table book. My mates might think I'm a little odd though.

The cover is embroidered, which I thought was a nice touch.

Current favourite is this one:

Trevor Paglen's work on the iconography of the National Security state is really good: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/09/trevor-paglen-the-artist-visualizing-the-surveillance-state/

# ¿ Aug 18, 2017 02:16

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Didn't Sprint use aluminium staples to hold together the different rings or layers of its solid propellant?

And yes, Ignition is definitely a must-read.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2017 04:04

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 18:04

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

If you haven't already read The Expanse novels, then read those. Proper hard belter sci-fi.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2017 14:33

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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